COVER-UP??? Flight 253 Eyewitness: Authorities Are Lying About Terror Attack... YOU MUST READ THIS!!

"So, you're saying that if a crazy group of Americans..."

So you're trying to put words in my mouth? I said no such thing. Stop trying to impeach my credibility by introducing crazy straw men.

What I DID say was that I'll be happy if you provide additional evidence in the form of news sources that have stories from OTHER PASSENGERS from the SAME FLIGHT that are backing up Kurt's story.

Right now, you have two choices to preserve any credibility for yourself:

1. Provide additional sources that have interviews with OTHER PASSENGERS from the SAME FLIGHT that are backing up Kurt's story.

2. Admit that you have no such information, and as such, Kurt's story carries little weight other than your own gut feeling.

Because that's all the choices you have in order to preserve ANY credibility.

If you DO find any other sources, please IM me, I'll be glad to revisit this story when there is more information, even if that's weeks in the future.

Till then, this is only a crazy conspiracy theory based upon the story of a single publicity hound.

So, you're saying that if a crazy group of Americans hiding in the Colorado mountains had factions attack a city in a foreign country they can then invade us and invite the members of the U.N. to invade us. They can fly around, drive around their tanks, blow up neighborhoods and destroy our infrastructure. All of this to find a few hundred 'terrorists' in the mountains. And then, if any of the citizens get pissed we'll call them terrorists too for wanting them out of our neighborhoods right her in the U.S. That's the problem to begin with, we don't have that right. If nobody has the right to do it here, then we don't have the right to do it there. We are not fighting a country but a group of people, supposedly, named after a CIA database file, 'Al Quaeda' meaning "the file". We're giving up our rights for a database file. Scary stuff there.

"rwahrens said: "It's not our job to prove how they did this, it's their job to prove they didn't." Nice way to set them up to fail, one CANNOT prove a negative!///// It seems to me that any person involved in a criminal trial is in this same position."

No, the government has to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the accused is guilty. there is a huge difference, the government has to convince a jury, many of whom are often as skeptical as you, that their story of the accused's guilt.

Prosecutors DO fail, and people get off all the time.

But please, feel free to continue to question, I do feel that it is needed. But do so with an eye to logic and good sense. ANY story has to have more than one witness to be fairly credible, and if it only has one, that one must be fairly objective in order to e credible himself. This guy Kurt isn't because frankly, he claims things that make no sense, stuff that others should have seen, but are not saying in public.

Your attitude is suspect, since you take your accusations against the government to an extreme. I am sorry, but until your story has more legs than one suspect witness, you have no case.

rwahrens said: "It's not our job to prove how they did this, it's their job to prove they didn't." Nice way to set them up to fail, one CANNOT prove a negative!///// It seems to me that any person involved in a criminal trial is in this same position. So, you are saying our court system sets defendants up to fail? If that's the way it is, that's it, but they should be held to the same standards as the citizenry. I have personally been affected by government and police corruption. That was and is my awakening. Since then, it has been my duty to question the government and police motivation first and then move on to the accused. You wouldn't believe how many times I don't even have to get to the defense of the accused without proving it was a setup. If something is fishy, question it. I live by that motto and think we'd all do much better questioning arrests, questioning accusations and questioning motives. I believe this one isn't going away and when all is done there will be government ties to this that will barely be reported on by the mainstream. We could argue all night but in the weeks following clarity will come.

"Type corruption, government, lie, cover-up into google and see what you get out of legitimate news agencies. "

And the rest of your rant is just more proof that this is just another poorly documented conspiracy theory with nothing to back it up but anti-government rants and accusations with no proof.

Come back with some actual facts and additional witnesses and we can talk some more. Not something traceable back to Kurt, but ANOTHER WITNESS.

You are trying to poke holes in my questions, but that cuts no ice. My questions about your story are still valid, and you have posted NO links to independent media outlets with credible witness accounts from OTHER passengers ON THE SAME FLIGHT with stories backing Kurt up.

You can ask your own questions about the government's story all you want, but without some facts to back up your theory, you have nothing.

The media has questioned how this guy could have been allowed on the plane (in other words, NOT been put on the no-fly list) when the government knew about his increased radicalist leanings. The government has noted that mistakes were made, and Obama is calling the Agency heads involved on the carpet monday to find out how these mistakes can be avoided in the future.

There is a rational process going on here, but this guy Kurt is not part of it, especially since he has nobody backing him up. The videotape story is HIS, not somebody else on the flight. Don't you think somebody else would have noticed? Especially since the flight crew would have told the guy to shut it off at the beginning and the end of the flight?

Funny how this one guy has noticed all of this, but nobody else did. All of the links you are posting are getting their stories from - KURT!!! It all traces back to him.

Give me another witness, FROM HIS FLIGHT, anybody, anywhere, and I'll consider this again, but you have NOTHING!!

Type corruption, government, lie, cover-up into google and see what you get out of legitimate news agencies. It would take you years to read all of the stories. Proof positive that public officials lie pretty much all the time. No theory there, just the truth. My theory is like this, if a cop knows that others in his department are corrupt and does nothing about it, for whatever reason, he is now a corrupt cop and so on and so on. Citizens can be charged for doing nothing about a crime but public officials cannot. That seems to me to be an invitation to lie and be corrupt. Additionally, they have the power at any time to claim privilege over the information essentially making it that much harder to prove their guilt. Since so much public corruption is found that means that substantially more is not. Add to that the people who weren't involved but knew about it and yes, most public officials are corrupt. Police, county attorneys, prosecutors, judges, FBI, CIA, and others. Their power has gone unchecked for so many years that they are now completely out of control and it's evident in the collapse of this country.

"Why would the DEA continue or even start doing their work on this particular plane? Isn't it standard operating procedure to clear the crime scene? Do you really want a bunch of extra people around when you are checking for explosives? Wouldn't you want everybody out of the way except for the bomb specialists? There could be more explosives in the baggage or hidden on the plane. That is, unless you already know there isn't. "

Why not? As I said, just because they plane they were on was involved in a terrorist plot, the laws of the US regarding immigration, drug laws, etc., are NOT suspended. They would all have been examined and passed through some sort of immigrations check. Using dogs to speed the search for illegal drugs would have been standard procedure where a large number of passengers is concerned.

I don't know why you think this is unusual. Kurt CLAIMS that the dogs were bomb sniffing dogs, but the authorities NEVER announce what dogs are looking for. The subjects of such a search are not told anything. His assertion that they were searching for a bomb is just his assumption.

If I were such an authority, and I wanted to make people think we were looking for drugs, why would I allow an officer to possibly compromise my operation by violating a procedure for handling bombs that is KNOWN to be procedure? By picking up the man's bag and taking him into an interrogation room, they were announcing to the world that NO bombs were present! No intelligence agency is so clumsy as that.

No, there is NO conspiracy, you are tilting at windmills. Simply your statement that public officials lie most of the time is proof of that.

No story here aside from a lawyer that wants publicity.

“The important thing is to never stop questioning.” - Albert Einstein

PS

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

The Sign of the Four, ch. 6 (1890)
Sherlock Holmes in The Sign of the Four (Doubleday p. 111)

Maybe, yes, existentialist, but how about the questions asked by WhiteNoise in his last post. This is more than just keeping some evidence secret. There is no possible way this could have happened without government assistance. That is why this is so important.

So the fact that the FBI is not, at this time, releasing every detail of a sensitive investigation means there is a mass cover-up? Maybe I am being dense, but what do conspiracy theorists think is going on? I am not putting it past our government to stage or commit a terrorist act to further their agenda, but I think this is hardly evidence of that. It seems like good criminal investigation procedure to keep some details of the incident secret until more facts come to light. I can think of several (non-conspiracy) reasons why it would be beneficial for them to keep the capture of terrorist conspirators secret.

rwahren //// Why would the DEA continue or even start doing their work on this particular plane? Isn't it standard operating procedure to clear the crime scene? Do you really want a bunch of extra people around when you are checking for explosives? Wouldn't you want everybody out of the way except for the bomb specialists? There could be more explosives in the baggage or hidden on the plane. That is, unless you already know there isn't. //You said: "Geez, sometimes, government officials DO tell the truth" // The problem is that they don't tell the truth often. It's kind of like the boy that cried wolf. If they tell enough lies it's hard to believe anything they say. That's just how it works for anyone. We have been lied to so many times that it's normal to question the government and it's what our Founding Fathers wanted us to do. This story is so full of wholes it begs to be questioned. Don't fault us for that. It's not our job to prove how they did this, it's their job to prove they didn't. So far, their story stinks.

Perhaps because the FBI didn't arrest the Indian guy? Maybe it was the DEA, for drugs.

Believe me, the two don't often talk to each other, so the FBI being unaware that the second guy had been arrested isn't a stretch at all.

Given these facts, it probably WAS an unrelated case! Geez, sometimes, government officials DO tell the truth.

No cover up, huh. Whitenoise first link said at the very bottom of the article. The FBI was asked and stated that nobody else had been taken into custody. After Kurt Haskell takes to the airwaves they admit to another person being taken into custody but hmmm, unrelated case. Why deny this other person in the first place unless you're covering something up?

Sorry, case NOT closed. Please review my comment remarking on his links, they are no help to your cause, one even has these quotes in it:

"There was a second person taken into custody, but it had nothing to do with Flight 253," he said. "They did see dogs, but again, it was a totally different incident."

When asked whether the incident was drug related, Smith told the newspaper, "Something like that."

Which is exactly what I had conjectured had happened.

So, again, link to some confirmable stories with witness accounts from other passengers ON THE SAME FLIGHT making the same allegations. So far, it's only Kurt!

Thanks for help with the links Whitenoise. Case closed.

Common sense tells me that if you had a terrorist attempt, with a bomb, you would probably dismiss the drug dogs for a bit and concentrate on the explosives part, just sayin'. You say that's not how they handle something with an expected bomb in it? Yes, I know, that's how you would handle it if you knew it was fake. If, as I believe, they were involved, they knew the crotch bombers bomb would just be a smoke bomb, just enough to get America to agree to more surveillance. Then, the rest is just a dog and pony show to increase the paranoia and get the citizens to back a police state. This is how the patterns of the past link to the future. We have seen the same thing before with Stalin, Hitler, Mao and others. Same story, same pattern, same taking away liberties for an imaginary threat. Here we go again........

rwharen /////// Are you kidding me? You agree that he was on a list, but say he wasn't being watched. /"He was not being watched. He had been put on a list that called for further investigation, which is another reason to question how his case was handled"/ Do you realize those two sentences cancel each other out? He wasn't on the no-fly list? So that's why someone had to sneak him on? You agree we should question how it was handled but question why I question the government. Whom shall we question about how it was handled then? You claim to automatically dismiss Mr. Haskell because he's an attorney but most of the people in the government that 'mishandled' this are attorneys also. So, I dismiss them too until they can prove their innocence. Guilty until proven innocent, right, isn't that how it really is in this country?

rwahrens said: "/////// ANYONE IS ALLOWED TO READ DE-CLASSIFIED INFORMATION! " Data regarding a current investigation IS classified information! ////But then right after the above I wrote: If you read about the past and apply it to the future patterns evolve that are hard to ignore. Just calling people paranoid and conspiracy theorists isn't going to cut it anymore.

I, after listening to several interviews, just don't see this as self promotion. At times, he seems nervous about even doing this. He is careful not to give any opinions that would cause him to be eliminated as a witness. He just tells the facts of what he and others saw. There are many others coming out now and telling the same story. There's no tie to any way that he could promote himself. Additionally, they knew their was a supposed terrorist attack so why would you bring in drug sniffing dogs? It's only logical they would bring in bomb sniffing dogs. I think he is a Patriot and is shocked that he's seen something he thinks the government is covering up.

corndog67 said: Kurt sure is drumming up a lot of publicity for himself over this. So there was another guy arrested on the flight. Does this make it a CIA coverup or something? //// Try proving Kurt's credibility suspicious? Or, try explaining the details of his story? Try to explain how this story happened yourself? Calling government workers incompetent won't fly anymore. The people that use that excuse are the same ones fighting for government run health-care. What about the fact this guy got help on the plane? What about the guy videotaping him the entire flight? We had him being watched, he was on the no-fly list. That many mistakes by that many people doesn't happen today unless it's been planned. Kind of like the war games going on in NYC on 9/11, huh?

Chapisbored said: can we for once get a decent source for this kind of thing? the source website has no reliable anything.//// For instance? Proof, example that this is not reliable. Did you watch and listen to it or just disregard? Kurt Haskell is a very successful attorney and his wife is also an attorney, how much more credible can you get? Most of your government are former attorneys so he's as credible as they are. Alex Jones is very careful to back everything he talks about with official documents. Mr. Haskell states that he has gone to all of the other media and they won't tell his full story. That's in the video.

rwharens //////// ANYONE IS ALLOWED TO READ DE-CLASSIFIED INFORMATION! If you read about the past and apply it to the future patterns evolve that are hard to ignore. Just calling people paranoid and conspiracy theorists isn't going to cut it anymore. The information is too easy to get at. People in the government are sick of the corruption and everything gets leaked sooner or later. It would be nice to live life with Eyes Wide Shut, but I do a lot of reading and the information can't be contained anymore. Many others are now willing to come out and tell the truth. Former government employees, current employees, former members of the military and more. The Oath Keepers are growing in numbers and everyone is tired of the blanket explanations that government and police know what's good for us. We know what's good for us and we employ them. We can handle the truth. The only truth they don't want us to know about is the truth that will get them jailed.

While I understand the need to keep investigations secret, the evidence shows that this is not what we are talking about in this circumstance. The timing of the incident was also way too convenient. This followed by surprise attacks for the New Year and reports weeks before the Detroit incident that the military wanted to go into Yemen. Sorry to be so glum on New Year's Day but we can only look forward to more of the same if we don't stand up now.

Kurt sure is drumming up a lot of publicity for himself over this. So there was another guy arrested on the flight. Does this make it a CIA coverup or something?

All this paranoid conspiracy shit does nothing to improve Current. I used to come to this site for a little bit different look at things, but it sure is turning into a paranoia site. It seems that now, all people do is blame the government for everything, post up all this bullshit about marijuana, as if they have nothing more important to worry about, or at least it is the main focus of some peoples lives, blame the cops for everything and everyone that gets beat down (most deserve it), and gay marriage.

How about a little more moderating, with the completely ridiculous stuff getting tossed immediately?

can we for once get a decent source for this kind of thing? the source website has no reliable anything. it makes current.com look ridiculous.

Oh, and here's an afterthought - if it HAD been a bomb - I've never known a police officer - even a member of a bomb squad - to just calmly carry out a suspected bomb. If it had been, that would more than likely have created a real hullabaloo, including bomb squad, etc., and they would have been removed from the area as soon as the dog alerted on the bag. (With homemade bombs, you don't know what will set them off, or what mechanism the bomber may have built into the bag to set it off if it is picked up by someone that is not him.) So once a bomb sniffing dog alerts on a bag, nobody will touch it or even open it for fear of setting it off. They just clear the area of bystanders and call in the bomb squad. They DON'T pick up the bag and take it into a room with the suspect! They DO do that with drugs or other illegal substances.

I'm betting he had some other illegal substance in the bag, and they aren't talking because it is unrelated to the terrorist incident. Separate investigation and all that.

I have several comments about this.

About the guy arrested in the baggage claim area, and the events that led up to his arrest - the alleged "bomb-sniffing dogs" - did the authorities SAY "these are bomb-sniffing dogs" at any time? Or did they just bring the dogs in and let them work? In my experience, police don't TELL you crap, they don't want you to know - that is standard procedure. That way, your imagination goes to work and a suspect will THINK the dogs are looking for what he/she has that is illegal and will begin to act nervous.

These dogs could have been drug sniffing dogs - this WAS customs, after all, and what makes them think they would be allowed in without at least some cursory customs inspection? He could have had drugs in that bag - i'd bet nobody came out of the interrogation room and said, "Hey, this guy had a bomb!" That would NOT be normal police procedure. They could even have had dogs there to sniff out several different substances.

I think our witness is guessing here, and making assumptions.

This would explain why authorities are not talking, he could have been arrested as the result of a completely separate investigation, which they ALSO would not want to talk about without blowing security on THAT one.

To see a terrorist on the same flight as a drug smuggler would not surprise me - after all, I would doubt that terrorists and drug smugglers have any kind of non-interference pact or clearing house to prevent disturbing each others' operations!

On the other hand, I can easily see US authorities not wanting to talk about this stuff while they are investigating - it kind of tips of their suspects as to what they know and what they are looking for. They are after the arrested terrorist's confederates - who are still free to act, run, or destroy evidence, which they will readily do if they know what the authorities are looking at or for.

YOU ARE NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY ALLOWED ACCESS TO INFORMATION ABOUT CURRENT LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATIONS!!! Authorities are allowed to keep secret whatever they need in order to protect the integrity of the investigation.

When authorities keep something secret they are not automatically engaging in a conspiracy to hide stuff from the taxpayers!! (Crooks are taxpayers too, in many cases!)

If you'd just look at things rationally, things are not always so bad. The only time everybody's out to get you is if you are paranoid; most of the time, nobody gives a crap.

I have known for some time now that the Goverment is corrupt. That they have been lieing to us. Why we went to war and why we are still at war. I do not trust the Goverment at all they will steal what they want. They will invade other countries under false intentions. They have used our milatery to invade other countries for a profit. They have done just what they accused Sadam Hussein of doing. They have gone in and performed a mass genacide. When are we going to stand up to the U.S. goverment and say ENOUGH when are the American people going to hold the Goverment responsable for there actions?

I always try and give my government the benefit of doubt. I try to be what I believe it means to be a “True American”…A decade in the military, scars (both physical and psychological) only to return to a Boston that is no longer my home. I spent my entire adult life in service to this country. Yes, I was aware that Iraq was just a new form of corporate raiding. I knew the Bush Administration lied to the American public and used the Armed Services as tools to Military Industrial Corporate Complex…But, I still have hope…Then I am force to face the reality that my government has absolutely no problem lying to me. Whose America is this now? What is America? What happened to MY American Dream? What does the future hold for our America? Am I still proud to be an American?..... It was tough getting though all three parts, but it is necessary as much as this disturbed me, thank you!....and why am I not surprised?

Thank you, I posted the original one and have since had trouble with the computer I make videos on. It gives you a strange feeling to start the New Year with this kind of information.