Community | January 04, 2010 | 71 comments

After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?hp

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KAMPALA, Uganda — Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.

The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.

For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.

One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.

Donor countries, including the United States, are demanding that Uganda’s government drop the proposed law, saying it violates human rights, though Uganda’s minister of ethics and integrity (who previously tried to ban miniskirts) recently said, “Homosexuals can forget about human rights.”

The Ugandan government, facing the prospect of losing millions in foreign aid, is now indicating that it will back down, slightly, and change the death penalty provision to life in prison for some homosexuals. But the battle is far from over.

Instead, Uganda seems to have become a far-flung front line in the American culture wars, with American groups on both sides, the Christian right and gay activists, pouring in support and money as they get involved in the broader debate over homosexuality in Africa.

“It’s a fight for their lives,” said Mai Kiang, a director at the Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, a New York-based group that has channeled nearly $75,000 to Ugandan gay rights activists and expects that amount to grow.

The three Americans who spoke at the conference — Scott Lively, a missionary who has written several books against homosexuality, including “7 Steps to Recruit-Proof Your Child”; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-described former gay man who leads “healing seminars”; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, whose mission is “mobilizing the body of Christ to minister grace and truth to a world impacted by homosexuality” — are now trying to distance themselves from the bill.

[more at link]
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71 comments // After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

  • donkeyfly69
  • biggranny
  • JuQuin
    • 0
      JuQuin  
    • Image

    • Hate is always very specific and its ultimate goal is to annihilate. This is just another example of the very sad state of affairs of human kind. And, I know Christ weeps at such expressions of hate in his name.

      It is always curious to me how they claim to want to create Heaven on Earth when, in fact, what they aim to destroy is the love of God and Christ for all His creations which includes gay men and women.

      Remember, the Bible was written at least 250 years after the death of Christ's Body and the Bible is full of Errors. The Bible also contains many expressions of Love and Forgiveness which are always overlooked by those who preach hate.

      There is a much modern and true New "New Testament" that was directly dictated by the Man Himself. If you want to find out what Christ actually said look here:

      http://www.acim.org/

    • 2 years ago
  • crob80227
    • +1
      crob80227  

    • Believe it or not this somewhat ties into a couple stories on Current.

      First there is a story about Bush’s legacy of redefining POW’s as non-descript “detainees” in order to avoid compliance with international law regarding the treatment of POW’s – and it also ties in with a story about scientists wanting to classify dolphins as “non-human persons.”

      Both stories deal with the power of CLASSIFICATION.

      When Bush cleverly re-classified the POW’s as “detainees” he opened up a vast new area for himself in how to treat them.

      When Rumsfeld classified EVERYONE at GitMo as “the worst of the worst” and repeatedly classified the POW’s at GitMo (both in public and in private memos) as “sub-human” and “scum” it made it possible for our soldiers to torture them. Whereas they might normally hesitate to break their legs with a baseball bat if these guys were just ordinary POW’s…once they were reclassified by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld as sub-human and evil incarnate then it was not “wrong” to beat them to death with a baseball bat or sexually assault them. Its only wrong to do that to humans. The detainees were not human. They were EVIL. So said Bush and Cheney.

      And isn’t that exactly what these evangelical ministers did in Africa?

      They reclassified homosexuals as evil incarnate. They reclassified them from human, to subhuman.

      It’s wrong to kill another human being, but it’s not wrong to kill a homosexual because they aren’t human (according to the extremist ministers at any rate. They are tools of the devil. Possessed by demons. They want to destroy you and your entire family. They will rape and kill you without any hesitation because they don’t have emotions like regular humans, because they AREN’T human.).

      No, they didn’t actively say they should be killed, but they knew what they were doing. I don’t believe they really and truly thought anyone would take their bullshit so seriously because they were so used to being ignored in the US. But their GOAL of reclassifying homosexuals as “sub-human” was never in question.

      Bush and Cheney reclassified the POW’s as sub-human, therefore it was okay to torture them to protect the actual humans.

      The Evangelicals classified the homosexuals as “evil” and a “threat” and a “danger” and of course people reacted to that new classification.

    • 2 years ago
  • crob80227
    • +1
      crob80227  

    • S'funny how the Christians seem "embarrassed" that they actually got what they wanted.

      They got up on stage and told everyone that gays were evil and a threat to all humanity...and then when a nation takes them up on their offer to "cleanse the earth" of these people they just classified and defined as subhuman....suddenly they are shocked and ashamed.

      I think the problem was they were Americans and they were used to calling for the death for gays and not being taken seriously. Here in the states we mostly just ignore their hate filled psychotic rants about the Gay Agenda to Destory The World.

      Now that they actually have blood on their hands they don't think calling for the death/imprisonment/re-education of homosexuals is so cool anymore.

    • 2 years ago
  • MoonLoon
    • +1
      MoonLoon  
    • crob80227:

      @crob, you have a good point. When a "pastor" or leader in Africa suggests violence and mayhem in the name of God, there will be the "faithful" ready to perform. I live in Nigeria and have been the victim of a Nigerian "Pastors", vengeance. Preacher's commands in Africa are usually literally translated into action!

    • 2 years ago
  • JuQuin
    • +1
      JuQuin  

    • This is perfectly logical and the ultimate expression of what happens when a group of individuals in the US who a driven by fear and hate are able to translate their hate into legislation.

      There is no question in my mind that the goal of the "Family" of individuals driving this type of legislation in Uganda is to accomplish the same thing is the US.

      Uganda is their training ground.

    • 2 years ago
  • Einsam_Data_Old
  • kristiM
    • +1
      kristiM  

    • When politics and religion combine it only makes for a bad outcome. Uganda has so many problems to deal with that homosexuality should not even be an issue on the radar. They need help to rebuild their country, help their former child soldiers, feed their population, etc. The fact that those three men even have the nerve to call themselves Christians is appaling. An honest follower of the religion would have travelled to Uganda to help those in need rather then further oppress them. There are so many people suffering already in Uganda but instead of helping them these evangelist chose to further limit the opportunities of those already oppressed by poverty. Sometimes it is so hard for me to understand the world we live in. People need to open their hearts and minds to understand one another rather than judge them.

    • 2 years ago
  • artemis6
    • +1
      artemis6  
    • kristiM:

      "The Family" is a political organization that masquerades as christian . They pay no taxes and i bet they are using this as a diversion tactic to further looting of some ugandan resources .

    • 2 years ago
  • MoonLoon
    • +1
      MoonLoon  

    • Rejection of homosexuality is strongly supported in most, if not all of Africa, as being alien to "African Culture". Uganda is predominately Christian, however, some attempts at integrating Sharia Law have been attempted (which outlaws homosexuality).
      The evangelicals are likely, unwitting pawns of Ugandan politicans looking for a leverage in elections. Rates of HIV/AIDS reached extremely high rates in the 1990's in Uganda; 25%-30% in urban areas and 18% in rural areas. They are now down to 6%-7%, but still high. This is a result of the "macho" culture of African men to have sex as often and as early as possible. The high rates of infection has likely caused a backlash among the populance and also encouraged the politicians to punish anyone that they can in order to be re-elected. My reference is; "Africa, altered states,ordinary miracles", by Richard Dowden.

    • 2 years ago
  • ryan8566
    • 0
      ryan8566  

    • is the death penalty for people who are gay...or for those who 'practice gay acts?"
      being a nice 21 yr old kid, i don't think i have to practice...i've got that down (no pun), but just for beiing gay they will kill someone?

    • 2 years ago
  • fun_size
    • 0
      fun_size  

    • The problem isnt Christians. Its these fucking fake Christians that dont even follow his teachings. Do you really think Jesus would want all the gays to be killed? Here i was thinking he taught tolerance and understanding.

      The problem is that there are soooo many of these bullshit Christians that it reflects negatively on the religion as a whole.

    • 2 years ago
  • ryan8566
  • artemis6
    • 0
      artemis6  
    • fun_size:

      I agree with you , sir . Question , is there no one who can take your religion back from the insane , murderous , charlatans ? Or do good christians who remain silent agree with them secretly ?

    • 2 years ago
  • ryan8566
  • Progresshiv
    • +1
      Progresshiv  

    • These three missionary twerps remind me of the guy in a George Carlin routine:

      "Today a man shot his wife, his children, his mother and father-in-law, the mailman, a neighbor, and the family dog. He told the police, 'I was just cleaning my weapon when it suddenly went off!'"

    • 2 years ago
  • bombastinator
  • mykuh
    • +1
      mykuh  

    • Just simply lowering the punishment to life in prison is not enough, but it will have to do for now. No one chooses to be homosexual, and many fight their instincts due to stigma. I think the men who started this blatant disregard for human rights should be tried and punished to the full extent of the law for hate crimes.

    • 2 years ago
  • bombastinator
    • 0
      bombastinator  
    • mykuh:

      the problem is that the people of that country do not know that. They have been educated on the subject by liars who are now trying to wiggle out of their own culpability.

    • 2 years ago
  • sraevoz
    • +1
      sraevoz  

    • I can't even fathom a word ugly enough to describe my feelings towards this bill and all the sub-humans behind it. What's even more devastating is that even if sanctions do lower the penalty, the attitude of hate has already infected most of the African continent. Why don't these spiteful people redirect their anger at the corrupted leaders siphoning their own country's future for mere pocket change?

      "A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge."

      -Thomas Carlyle

    • 2 years ago
  • kennymotown
  • bombastinator
    • 0
      bombastinator  
    • kennymotown:

      No. It just means that any philosophy or religion can be twisted into anything given enough rope.

      The nazis actually had to create their own sub sects to make their beliefs work within Christianity, and they persecuted many christian sects. I have family that was driven out of Germany for being Quakers, who naturally opposed the war. They managed to stay out of the camps, mostly, but only through political connections. They were still denied ration stamps and there was a good deal of hunger. My step mother to this day won't eat rabbit because it tastes too much like rat.

    • 2 years ago
  • ryan8566
  • kennymotown
    • +1
      kennymotown  

    • Scott Lively is a convicted felon for assault here in Oregon he punched a lesbian reporter in the face, a real gem of a person and not much of a Christian according to Jesus!

    • 2 years ago
  • dsidney
  • skyking3525
    • -1
      skyking3525  

    • Why are all of you condemning Christians? The people who incited this were Christian, yes, but they are part of a minority in the Christian faith.

      History has seen suicide bombers in the Catholic and Muslim faiths. They were part of a "sect" if you will... a minority from the majority. These people who claim to be Christian obviously do not hold to the values of the entire Christian community.

      You are all spewing negativity and it makes me ill.

    • 2 years ago
  • sraevoz
    • +1
      sraevoz  
    • skyking3525:

      You might be right, but this is a clear example of a "minority" misleading an entire country to not just persecute but MURDER innocent people. Do not mistake the context, if this were any other intolerant religion it would receive the same railing.

      "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

      - Martin Luther King Jr.

    • 2 years ago
  • cztheday
    • 0
      cztheday  
    • skyking3525:

      I concur, skyking. It frankly makes me heartsick to see people whose intellects and opinions on so many issues I otherwise respect engaging day after day in this kind of stereotyping. These three idiots go to Uganda and preach their filth...and suddenly all Christians are beneath contempt. How does one recommend a post that says merely "Fucking Christians" and nothing else? Logic takes a holiday...

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
    • +1
      EdJoyProductions  
    • skyking3525:

      Speaking as an equal opportunity religion foe, I understand the anger. Self proclaimed christians are inciting genocide and are not being denounced loudly enough by christians that think this is insane. Stop supporting these politicians. Instead of protesting against gay marriage, how about protesting American Evangelical that go to other countries preaching the kind of hate that they could not so easily get away with here and could result in the murder of people who have done nothing wrong except be born differently from the majority. I think that Jesus would find that more in line with his teachings than what "The Family" thinks is christianity.

      I don't like religion because it has a tendency to justify things that without the smoke and mirrors are simply wrong. I have no problem if you are religious and do not try to force your beliefs on other, especially when the result could be innocent people being killed. But when outrages occur in the name of a certain belief system, they must be called out. If you, as a christian are offended by what is being done, denounce it loudly. If you agree that murdering homosexuals is justified than you are not a christian and should stop pretending that you are.

    • 2 years ago
  • skyking3525
    • +1
      skyking3525  
    • skyking3525:

      I am not for or against any particular religion. But I am upset at how people are so quick to condemn one another.

      What is happening in Uganda is a tragedy, put mildly. And to respond to you cztheday, these ignorant hate mongers should be held accountable for their actions in Uganda. And to your comment EdJoyProductions, I wish more Christians would come forward to denounce these men, the more "powerful" ones in Washington would be nice... a pipe dream I suppose.

      But as for now we are left discussing it here on Current.

    • 2 years ago
  • cztheday
    • 0
      cztheday  
    • skyking3525:

      OK, Edjoy, you make valid points...but I am address the stereotyping. You say that as a Christian I have a moral obligation to decry any activity by a Christian with which I disagree. Fine. So if you see any activity by a woman with which you disagree, you have a moral obligation to decry it, right? I don't have any idea what race or ethnicity you are but let's say you are white just for the sake of argument. You now have a moral obligation to decry any activity by a white person with whom you disagree, right? Do you see my point? I may be a Christian, but I am not responsible for the bad behavior of every single other Christian any more than I am responsible for the bad behavior of every other male, every other white person, every other American, every other left wing nutjob...wait, I think I may have hurt my argument with that last one : )

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
    • +1
      EdJoyProductions  
    • skyking3525:

      Actually, if I were a Christian, I would feel obligated to act against anyone that was tarnishing the name of the belief that I held so central to my life. I would be appalled that someone was using Jesus in such a heinous manner. If one is going to pick a group to be associated with, I think it is the responsibility of the members to act when things are committed that are obviously wrong in the name of that group. I am not referring to simple disagreements. This is an issue that is so wrong and so anti-christian that it needs to be addressed.

      Of course that is just me and I am a big old atheist. My affiliation with churches ended when I saw a requirement for thought control without question. I hate that crap.

      As for being a white person, I am more of an apricot shaded individual. I think race is an artificial separation of humans and it annoys me that people have to even acknowledge it. In my personal world it is of absolutely no consequence. There was a comedian and I can not remember his name but I remember one line: Prejudice is stupid when you consider how many good reasons there are to hate people on an individual basis.

      What the hell were we yapping about? :D

      Oh stereotypes. Sometimes it is fun to be lazy and whip them out and say stupid things.

    • 2 years ago
  • NickerBocker09
    • 0
      NickerBocker09  

    • I would hope that if the bill passes the US, UN, EU, etc.. will take action. But then again, we prefer to spend our money on expensive cars and leather jackets than prevent the persecution of thousands.

    • 2 years ago
  • revolutioninamerica
  • UrbanGypsy
    • +1
      UrbanGypsy  

    • This is what evangelicals would do here if they had the chance. Spread lies and hate about homosexuals. They claim not to hate homosexuals, but they like to take trips to Uganda to promote a bill that calls for the death penalty for homosexuality.

      They do it because they have a captive and ignorant audience. If they could do the same here, who's to say they wouldn't?

      I said it before and I'll say it again, I'm sure glad I'm not a Christian. I would never associate myself with such an ignorant belief system that forces the human mind to abandon reason for faith.

    • 2 years ago
  • common_sense_please
    • +1
      common_sense_please  

    • First off I can't really imagine that being persecuted while gay in Africa is a new problem--just as it is not a new phenomenon here in the U.S. either. But what really makes me mad and frustrated is the blatant hypocrisy and outright lies that so called christians spread about gay people.

      I say look in the mirror hypocrites-and honestly answer the following questions before you start calling for a modern day holocaust against gay people because:

      Seriously how many gay people are on the sexual predator list?
      How many gay people are on death row for murdering their spouse or child or both?
      How many gay people hold up signs and picket heterosexual funerals?
      How many gay people beat up heterosexual people for no other reason than they dared to walked down the street holding hands with their girlfriend/boyfriend or spouse?
      How many gay people stand around condemning heterosexual people to hell every chance they get?
      How many gay people walk up to a couple in a restaurant while they are celebrating an anniversary and go How dare you be married or celebrate your anniversary/marriage in public?
      How many gay people act like complete a**holes in public and cheat on their spouses, cuss, yell, scream, kick their dog, heckle the President of the United States during a speech, commit treason, take bribes, run ponzi schemes, bring guns to public events, and generally run their business and the entire country into the ground--and then turn to someone they don't know anything about and tell them---Oh I will pray for you--or you should become a christian like me-or say you are a bad person who is going to hell because of your lifestyle choices?

      But yeah--"the gay" is a threat and people who are gay deserve to be hunted down and put in jail for life or killed simply because they exist.

    • 2 years ago
  • UrbanGypsy
  • crimson_thoughts
  • angelaguayo
    • +1
      angelaguayo  

    • Be open-minded. Don't believe something just because a book said. Not that I've ever read this book I've heard its been translated a lot and probably doesn't have the meaning we think it does. Being homosexual is not an option, you cant help who you like whether it be a guy or girl. See besides being some what close minded, I got another problem with theses churches. I'm glad that people help others who need it. BUT want I dont like is that they bring their beliefs with them and push them on others.

    • 2 years ago
  • BrushwithDeathToothpaste
    • -1
      BrushwithDeathToothpaste  

    • Christianity is about peace, love and tolerance. I"m sure Rick Warren will step in and not only condemn this proposed law, but actively campaign against it. His numerous visits to Africa make him key in educating the leaders of Uganda on their gross misinterpretation of Christian philosopy.

    • 2 years ago
  • bombastinator
    • +1
      bombastinator  
    • BrushwithDeathToothpaste:

      who the hell is rick warren? The problem is that without care any religion can be turned to almost any purpose by the sufficiently nefarious. Being 'religious" doesn't give anyone a morality pass. It's still what you believe not just why you believe it.

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
  • Twistisking
  • sgordy1
  • Ihatethemall
    • +1
      Ihatethemall  

    • another "lets kill all the christians" story from the supposedly most tolerant people on planet earth.
      Practice what you preach. People might take your views and opinions a little bit more seriously. I wont but some fool might

    • 2 years ago
  • cztheday
  • Betico
  • MOK
  • masterzip
  • EdJoyProductions
  • bombastinator
  • afitzgerald
  • unimatrix0
  • Betico
  • bombastinator
    • -1
      bombastinator  
    • unimatrix0:

      see my comment above to raylinmarie.

      The problem is that a lot of scary fundamentalist cults have attempted to mainstream themselves by calling themselves merely "Christian" instead of stating their actual affiliation. Effectively hiding their stink behind more decent folk.

      It's not are you a christian, it's are you a Catholic, or an ALC luthran (conservative, but still fairly sane), a Wisconsin synod Lutheran (pretty scary) an independent evangelical baptist (could be anything but frequently is deeply cultish), or a 7th day Adventist (cue the dueling banjos)

    • 2 years ago
  • Coolie20
    • 0
      Coolie20  

    • are you kidding me?! homosexual intolerance is what they got out of some evangelists?! how about intolerance shamed upon being considered once in awhile. Isn't christianity about love? either the evangelists were completely misleading them or the people misunderstood this faith completely! oh that is just so sad...

    • 2 years ago
  • bombastinator
    • 0
      bombastinator  
    • Coolie20:

      I'd go with misleading them, considering who the evangelicals in question were.

      The dark humor is that these same people once faced with the actuality of their beliefs are trying to pretend they didn't mean it.

    • 2 years ago
  • artemis6
  • bombastinator
  • EdJoyProductions
  • bmrabbit
    • +1
      bmrabbit  

    • Here we go again. More distractions away from the real issues facing our country. These three idiots shouldn't be "distancing" themselves from what they started. As "Men of God", who created us in his image and teaches us to love one another as we love ourselves should STAND UP LIKE THE "MEN OF GOD" they purport to be, go back to Uganda and right the wrong they have inflicted upon the thousands of people there. Instead they are "distancing themselves." They have now possibly sentenced how many men and women to death for the sin of being gay, something they have no control over as scientifically proven by gene and DNA research. They should be then brought back and criminally and/or civilly fined in court for misrepresenting themselves as "experts" in fields that have only scientific experts at this point in time. If they represented themselves as police officers they'd be in prison by now, but because they fall into the "special interest " groups of right wing Christians who happen to have a lot of money and can make a lot of noise condemning others while overlooking their own sins (check the infidelity and divorce rates in this country of our "special interest group who made a lot of promises in front of friends, family and witness who also promised to hold them to those promises before God while it suited them), they can quietly hide behind the hems of in the bully group. When bullies gather in the school yard they make quite an impressive, dangerous force. But when they disperse to their homes and become smaller and smaller groups, until there are only one or two standing there, they suddenly realize that maybe their views are those of the groups when faced with someone standing a little taller than them. Our government should not tolerate this misrepresentation of the views of many by the views of the very, very few three and immediately quiet the special interest groups in this country and force these three to stand up and be accountable for their actions. Will this ever happen? I don't think so because politics and money talk too much in our country, as in most other countries, and as I have said before, please don't waste your time trying to incite me to reply to some of your useless replies because I won't be. I've said what I want to and that's that. Have a great New Year!

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
    • +1
      EdJoyProductions  

    • "Uganda’s minister of ethics and integrity (who previously tried to ban miniskirts) recently said, “Homosexuals can forget about human rights.”"

      If this is the type of person the Ugandan government chooses as a minister of ethics and integrity, there is little hope for any of the population to feel safe. Start with banning homosexuality with a death penalty and see where that leads. This is very sad.

    • 2 years ago
  • SalvadoreSouza
    • +1
      SalvadoreSouza  

    • why do they always feel the need to push their views on everyone!?
      they can't just be content following their beleifs themselves, but instead have to force them on everone else. Live your fucking life, and i'll live mine.

      ...fucking christians...

    • 2 years ago
  • raylinmarie
  • larrysnotes
  • EdJoyProductions
  • skyking3525
  • bombastinator
    • -1
      bombastinator  
    • raylinmarie:

      hey! Don't lump me in with them.

      That's like talking about Charles Manson and then saying "fucking americans", or talking aobut that dude that was sniping people from the back of his car and saying 'fucking black people". You want to be more specific with your pejoratives go ahead, but please make sure the people you are pointing at are actually doing the things you are accusing them of.
      I for one resent being labeled with these butt smears.

    • 2 years ago
  • EdJoyProductions
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