Side by side - One day of American Justice - Justice for Woman and Justice for Man.

Oh come on! Details in both cases are required before you can make snap judgments about gender having anything do do with conviction.

I know a friend of mine said he couldn't get a loan to open a bakery - he's a master baker - because they told him they could only lend to women.
He's a Costco employee now.
But he used to have a 150 year old French sour-dough that he made sour-dough Belgian Waffles in the mornings and little pastry teddy-bears, with Blue Berry Eyes.

Too bad.

that normally happens with jurys, unless you know somewhere they keep the same people locked up in hotels and courtrooms for eternal jury duty.... the aspect is how this shows the additude of society in instances where there are many similarities but one big difference.... these two cases are but one example for this type of additude in courts even without a jury trial.....

wtf is wrong with you people? both of these cases were decided by 2 completely different jurys. not only were the jurys different, they were also JURYS! you couldnt even call this a double standard if you wanted to. ya know why? because there is no such thing as a standard for a jury!

I do understand that there is a lot going wrong in terms of feminist movements. Feminism does seem to be taking over, as you mentioned, to the detriment of men. But to a certain extent. You will, I think, agree with me that men have advantages in certain areas while women have advantages in others - both in a negative way.

Honestly, I'm at a loss on what to say about the quotes you've supplied me. Frankly, I think those women are idiots. I will not deny that people like this do exist. I can't, to be honest - it would be a lie. However, I stand by my point that there are at least an equal amount of women whose purpose it is to actually do good in the world.

I suppose my view comes from being a minority member from a country which has nothing of the equality we have here. I was raised here for the majority of my life except 6 months of which I have no memory. However, I have been back to my country of birth only to be saddened by the state of affairs. There, I have not experienced equality.

Believe me, once you've been looked up and down, assessed, and scrutinized like meat at a grocer's by a man holding a machine gun at the crossroads of no-where and wtf-is-this-even-a-place-? you tend to focus a bit on the women who experience the same thing, but everyday. (Btw, that was the worst shortcut EVER.)

You also have to understand that the view on feminism by women of color differs from that taken by white women. The reason for this is that women of color deal with racism as well as sexism. So for me, being a woman of color, I tend to ignore certain aspects of feminism undertaken by white women. My goals and priorities are simply different. So when you bring up the crazies (i.e. the radicals) I don't have as much knowledge of them as you do - I have no research on their brand of thinking. It's completely foreign to me. For me, girls getting equal opportunity to go to school, for example, is what matters. Why anyone would want men to be removed off the face of the earth... I have no explanation. It's madness.

Still, while we do have differing views, I'm glad you're part of current. You bring a completely different view that challenges what has gone on unchallenged here for a long time. Heck, you get me to challenge my own assumptions.

Thank you!

@div,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you as I believe your questions where originally adressed to me. As a woman I share my belives with a well known American author Christina Hoff Sommers. Here is a link for some info about her and what she stands for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers

"Christina Hoff Sommers is an American author known for her critical stance regarding late 20th century feminism, and her controversial writings about feminism in contemporary American culture. Her most widely discussed books are Who Stole Feminism?: How Women Have Betrayed Women[1] and The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men. Sommers believes the feminist movement has been appropriated by "a cadre of party-line bureaucrats promoting an agenda of victimism and victimology-based revolution, with serious implications for the wider world."[2] Critics of Sommers have referred to her as an antifeminist.[3][4][5][6] Author Barbara Marshall has stated that Sommers explicitly identifies herself as a "libertarian."[12] The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy categorizes Sommers' equity feminist views as classical liberal or libertarian and socially conservative.[13] Sommers has criticized how "conservative scholars have effectively been marginalized, silenced, and rendered invisible on most campuses."[14] In an article for the text book, Moral Soundings, Sommers makes the case for moral conservation and traditional values.[15]

Ideas
Author Barbara Marshall has stated that Sommers explicitly identifies herself as a "libertarian."[12] The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy categorizes Sommers' equity feminist views as classical liberal or libertarian and socially conservative.[13] Sommers has criticized how "conservative scholars have effectively been marginalized, silenced, and rendered invisible on most campuses."[14] In an article for the text book, Moral Soundings, Sommers makes the case for moral conservation and traditional values.[15]

Views on feminism
Sommers uses the terms "equity feminism" and "gender feminism" to differentiate what she sees as acceptable and non-acceptable forms of feminism. She describes equity feminism as the struggle for equal legal and civil rights and many of the original goals of the early feminists, as in the first wave of the women's movement. She describes "gender feminism" as the action of accenting the differences of genders for the purposes of creating privilege for women in academia, government, industry, or advancing personal agendas.[2][16]
Sommers questions the direction that feminism has taken. She writes that flawed reports have commanded large research grants and influenced misguided legislation and education policy. In Who Stole Feminism she writes that an often-mentioned March of Dimes study which says that "domestic violence is the leading cause of birth defects," does not, in fact, exist. She writes that violence against women does not peak during the Super Bowl, which she describes as another popular urban legend. Sommers also writes that these statements about domestic violence were used in shaping the Violence Against Women Act, which allocates $1.6 billion a year in federal funds for ending domestic violence."

Sommers uses the terms "equity feminism" and "gender feminism", I sometimes call it "radical feminism". But the bottom line is there are many terms for feminism. Here are a few quotes by well known Feminists which have become the bases for many current anti-male laws, regulations, judgments, media and public perception of men and boys.
I hope I was able to clarify my position and my comments.

"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." (Elizabeth Cady Stanton)

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."(Germaine Greer)

"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males."(Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.)

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist"(Ti-Grace Atkinson)

"Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice."(Ti-Grace Atkinson)

"The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist"(National NOW Times, January, 1988)

“Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.”(Catharine A. MacKinnon)

"Feminism is built on believing women's accounts of sexual use and abuse by men."(Catharine MacKinnon)

"All heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent"(Catherine MacKinnon in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies, p. 129.)

"All men are rapists and that's all they are"(Marilyn French Author, "The Women's Room”,and advisor to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign)

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."(Catherine MacKinnon)

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience."(Catherine Comins, Vassar College Assistant Dean of Student Life in Time, June 3, 1991, p. 52.)

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act."(Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor)

"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."(Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig."(Andrea Dworkin)

"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers”(Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women)

So your response to my comment is to state:

"Untill there is public denouncement of these ideologies and the people who spout them by NOW and other feminist organizations, the support is seen as agreement."

You're not even going to bother to listen to what I have to say about feminism and what a lot of feminists strive for it to be. You're going to quote the radical feminists, right? Because a radical is obviously the right person to use to represent an entire movement, right?

You still haven't answered my question though. Which feminists do you KNOW? I mean - references are great. I can take any idiot in history and reference them as evidence for how messed up the world is.

How about I take my evidence of the entire American thought as a whole using Limbaugh? I mean, why not? It's one radical person who is American, CLEARLY he must represent all Americans.

Not bashing feminists?
"Hey feminists! Where are your cries for equal treatment of men and women now? Oh yeah, you only care about equality when it benefits women."

"Feminists generally want equal rights without equal responsibility for their actions. for example, women get laughably less punishment for the exact same crimes. Where is the outrage from the feminists in this case? You won't see much because they don't care."

And, look, everytime something like this comes up, people say it's feminists fault. So yeah, it's feminist bashing.

If you want to see moderate feminism that has an interest in real equality, try looking for it. Quotes by people who write books are pretty, but anyone can write a book and make millions. Hell, have you read Twilight?

THEY BOTH CAN BE ASSUMED AS GUILTY BUT IN COURT THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE HAS TO BE PROVIDED SUCH AS WITNESSES AND FORENSICS. IF THE DEFENSE DOESNT ASK FOR IT OR IS UNABLE TO COME UP WITH IT THEN THE JURY CAN ONLY WORK WITH WHAT THEY HAVE.

Its not a hatred of the word, and these types of posts do not bash feminism... still it brings out many people who claim to be feminists and make a bad name for it altogether...

Still yet, any cry for equality for men is seen as woman or feminist bashing.... I can only ask: Why??

http://www.robinmorgan.us/robin_morgan_bio.asp

http://www.sallymillergearhart.net/frameset.html

http://www.elizabethcadystantonhometown.org/

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Germaine_Greer

When praised by the majority and seen in the light of being influential and sell books by the millions for their additudes. The actions of such groups and people speak for themselves.....

Untill there is public denouncement of these ideologies and the people who spout them by NOW and other feminist organizations, the support is seen as agreement. The points made here is that many of the groups who cry and scream when there is a disparity against women are saying and doing nothing for the disparities against men. A story like this would not be seen as an "attack on feminism" if what you feel is the same as everyone who calls themselves feminist..... So when someone replies as if this is an attack the responses are seen as more of an attack..... Its a perpetual cycle based on perception of an additude you claim is prevalent in feminism....

Look. I am a feminist. I don't get this feminist bashing. You are aware that there is not one all-encompassing type of feminism, right? All the feminists I've ever known personally would never support unequal sentencing for men and women.

Mft, you can take a few quotes from a radical feminist and claim that it represents feminism. Does that mean I can take the words of a kkk member and use it to define Christianity? No, because that makes no sense.

What feminists have any of you who are bashing feminism actually met? Have you seriously not met someone who does want equality? I'll be honest, I think anyone who thinks men and women should be treated honestly and equally across the board is a feminist.

Why this hatred of the word?

@common_sense_please,
I appreciate your attempt to admit there are great many injustices agains men. And no one ever said there are no injustices against women.

The issue here is that media is one sided and very much pro-women. The injustices men suffer every day are swept under the rag. You mentioned Salem Witch Hunt; check out today's Witch hunt in Maine www.fillerfund.com.

You will find the unjust prosecution of many innocent men and only men. Claiming domestic abuse or sex related abuse are the easiest way to gain financial benefits, federal funding, assets during the divorce, get a revenge for disillusioned marriage, gain the custody of the children, gain green card in US. Did you know that prosecuting men due to domestic violence, molestation or rape is easier then murder?

Did you know the law does not require any witnesses, or any evidence, or even medical treatment records, or motive, or any sort of proof? All she has to do is to give a statement. Domestic violence and sex crimes have no assumption of innocence. Is this the justice in America? Guilty until proven innocent?

It is when man is accused of raping his wife after 20 year marriage because he and his children had enough of physical and emotional abuse from the woman and the terror of the family. Guess what happens when this man and many like him call abuse hotlines and police to ask for help and protect him and his children from his wife's abuse? Men are turned down. There are many innocent men falsely accused and imprisoned. All you need to do is take your pink glasses off and stop assuming women are still the victims of abuse and injustice as they were 50 years ago.

" I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." " -MLK

If discrimination exists, then there will be a desire to eradicate it.... Many of us do believe in this dream.....

First off let's all back down a bit and take a deep breath--then calmly look at this post for what it truly is--a rather insensitive comment based on a sample of two cases that--at least according to the poster--there is a certain amount of gender inequality in sentencing because the man was given a prison term for attempting to murder their girlfriend while the woman was acquitted for murdering her husband.

Yes there is a grain of truth to this--women are seen as the "weaker sex" and therefore are given more lead way to commit murder and not get receive the death penalty or a long term prison sentence.

But just like any other kind of discrimination--gender discrimination is on a pendulum and for the most part the United States as a country has always viewed women as somehow incapable of cold blooded calculated murder--which is why there are so very few women even sentenced to death row let alone actually executed.

But at the other end of the pendulum swing you have the Salem witch trials and the European witch hunts where women were executed simply for being women.

And you have the more modern day discrimination where women are attacked and killed for daring to show an ankle or a strand of hair while in public in the more extremist middle eastern countries.

And you have the health care system here in the United States that discriminates against women and labels pregnancy " a pre-existing condition" if they try to obtain health insurance coverage once they realize they are pregnant.

Then you have the completely off the charts utterly pointless statements along the lines of women should just pack up and leave if their boyfriend or husband is abusive or violent--because yeah domestic violence shelters always have plenty of funds and open beds. And relocating to a new city and not being able to put down an address or list previous employers for job references because that provides a way for your boyfriend or husband to "find" you isn't frustrating and humiliating and yeah taking food stamps and temporary assistance to needy families is going to really win your detractors over because of course they won't label you just another "welfare mom" or assume you are trying to run a scam on the "taxpayer" and meanwhile the person who was beating you gets to go on with his life, keep his job, live in his house, keep his friends, and even move on to a new girlfriend he can start the cycle with all over again.

Because nobody is talking about programs like Alternatives to Battering which actually helps men break the cycle of violence and understand why they feel the need to hurt women--because THAT would actually mean having a discussion about gender inequality that looked at the whole picture.

And to be fair--men are discriminated against too when it comes to being a victim of domestic violence because its true shelters for women suck--men aren't even given the luxury of having a shelter to go to in the first place.

And yes--most of the time men are not given a choice with regard to whether their girlfriend or wife has an abortion or has a baby--but they are unfairly expected to pay child support regardless.

I guess in the end I am just annoyed by people who try to prove their point that gender discrimination or racial discrimination or any type of discrimination is somehow unfair if it is applied to the group or label you use to identify yourself--but its perfectly fine as long as it is applied to the "others" outside of the group you identify with.

It's like *smack* discrimination against the "others" has been going on since the beginning of time and posting a silly-poorly researched-and highly inflammatory post about it just gets the ball rolling again.

I think women's brains think differently. Just like the clitoris/penis - they just develop differently.
Everyone understands that men are driven and can be single-minded. Where women say they are so proud to have an easy capability to consider several things at once.

Now... :-}

I am sure that there are long reasons for this, extending as far back as there is a far back.
The men go out and get the buffalo, the woman manages the cave, the cuisine, the horny beta-males, and day males, the competing females, etc and balances the needs of the provider. She made sure she got him in the first place - which tells us a lot about present females social interactions.

She can have a whole pack of stuff running around in that noodle of hers.

This nature can present in so many ways depending on intellectual capacity and social make-up.

He can be a brute - or a fantastic talent - artist, scientist, father, good stuff - potentially.

She can be - what do we say, screwball with mutli-faceted personality - or a wonderful person, depending on intellectual capacity and social make-up.

This is why, dumb to should be dropped - while any of us have the sweet time to embark upon the good life we should go ahead and have.

Drop dumb, that's the key deal. For many, it means drop every damn thing you've been thinking - and you'll find the smart stuff you haven't been open to understanding, waiting to fill you up.

The whole new and real you, awaits you dropping all these bad habits. She or he is just waiting there.

What a sad and funny reality we live in.

sexism at its worst.....

I liken this type of case to the Southern attitudes toward black people (past or present) that white people have to take care of the blacks because blacks aren't capable of rational decisions themselves.

Maybe we could call cities "hives" - and a legal declaration of being a hiver or non-hiver. Non-hivers say to all the huddled and muddling hivers that they are not part of their little frightened world, they will make their money as they see fit, they'll buy whatever they wish to buy as they see fit. And they would remain true to their own moral code. Leave them alone, they are not part of your inane, small, stupid, closed envelope - robotine life-plan.

They consider themselves free people and will stand on their own, with their own good mind and their own good discretion.

cause otherwise, you really don't have the American promise.

Actually the long term statistics and facts indicate it is men who are given lighter sentences for killing their wives or girlfriends because if they establish a history of abusive behavior it allows for the charges to be manslaughter--the logic being well the 10th or 15th time I hit her I managed to kill her--sorry my bad I did not actually "intend" or "plan" to kill her.

But if a woman decides finally she has had enough of being beaten and/or watching her children being beaten or growing up to be abusive and "plans" or "intends" for her abuser to die--they she has committed premeditated murder--and thus gets a much harsher sentence.

But if the author of this post wanted to really compare stories of justice they should have just picked up their christian bible--there's a great story about how all the ranking religious leaders yank a woman "caught in the very act of adultery" before Jesus and tell him the law requires she be stoned (they naturally leave off the part where the yahoos were watching her have sex in order to catch her in the act--and that unless adultery suddenly meant using your non-dominate hand while masturbating--then there was a man with her who was also committing a crime). So what does Jesus do? He just sits there for a moment and writes out some message in the dirt--and then comments now based on that--which one of you guys is so righteous that you can throw the first stone? And when they all finally wander off he says to the woman--since they don't condemn you neither will I--go and sin no more.

Women always get off. I have seen this, personally.
There's a famous 1920s murderer - who killed young boys at a remote ranch. He went at it for years - Angeline Jolie made a movie about it.
This guy's mother was the real one pulling the strings and making it happen the whole way through. They hung him, even though he was an abused and coerced and long victim himself but let her off.

It's just the way it works.

What is it about the psychology of people - and men - and women - that allow the guilty to get off because they are women?

And, for that matter, to harshly punish men because they are men? Sometimes perfectly innocent men?

Well! These are the people driving next to you on the freeway, demanding their religion is real - when we all know about that, really - and going about wars and other direct and often utterly evil deeds based upon it, - these are the people that might sit in judgment of you. They are your "peers".

Get a funny feeling - when you think of that?
Could be your turn next.

I'm not a feminist and none of us were there but I see what you mean. Personally, I think the jury screwed up on this one.

So, what about the fact that the jury that put the man away was 66% men? Or that there were "dozens of witnesses" against him, including his own mother? Or that the perpetrator HIMSELF admitted that, although he didn't remember doing it, "he must have caused her injuries".

You must also consider that this man was only sentenced for ATTEMPTED MURDER. He will be in prison for, what, a few years at most for something he doesn't remember but admitted he must have done? While the woman was on trial for actual murder in a country that still practices the death sentence. You don't think that the jury's decisions couldn't have anything to do with the severity of punishmen?

You really have some agenda, but maybe you should find a more conservatie site to push it.

@Theekshani,

Here are some quotes by well known Feminist. And if you hang around long enough on Current you will have an opportunity to meet a few.

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act”(Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.)

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race."(Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.)

"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." (Elizabeth Cady Stanton)

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."(Germaine Greer)

Hey feminists! Where are your cries for equal treatment of men and women now? Oh yeah, you only care about equality when it benefits women. Feminists will not be taken seriously until they advocate for equal responsibility along with equal rights.

Welcome to American justice and equal rights for both genders!

In the Bizarro world this makes perfect sense.