J. D. Salinger dead at 91: your thoughts

I haven't read it, but I did happen to read some reviews of those that were very postive. You're apparently not the only one to think so.

In fact, I agree. CITR is a quintessential bildungsroman.

The idea that adults are corrupt and children / teenagers are good has been around for centuries now. You may not think this was a good book, but I seriously doubt that all of the literary critics who have read Catcher in The Rye and commended Salinger for his books were complete idiots. You read this book when you were in high school. I doubt back then you were some sort of Messiah of good literature.

Very well put, Delia.

I think the work of art stands on its own.

But we should NEVER get in the habit of looking at an artist and forgiving him any depravity just because he produced a great work of art.

Hitler was a GREAT water color painter. Did you know that? He could have chosen a career in art. Instead he chose genocide. So, was he "cool" because he had some great paintings?

Roman Polanski drugged and raped a pre-teen girl. He might have made a couple "OK" movies, but he was a sick, perverted, disgusting pedophile rapist, and we should NEVER forget that.

John Wayne Gacy was another painter (he painted clowns)...if he'd been famous for his paintings, would we ignore the fact that he murdered and ate young men?

How about Charles Manson?

Salinger does not come close in depravity to these individuals, but he was still a creep. He wrote at least one good book, but does that make HIM cool? Enjoy the book, but when you read it, keep in mind that the author was one twisted SOB.

I saw Hitler's stuff . It was really dull . Just my opinion as an artist .

I agree that the art stands on its own (or at least that it SHOULD stand on its own). That is why I have always been baffled by the widespread near-worship of movie and television actors in our society. Some are undoubtedly great actors AND great people...but who wants to wade through the OTHER 90% to find those nuggets of gold?

man, cz, you and I have had frequent and somewhat passionate disagreements and it's almost disturbing that we're in agreement on several issues this week.

I promise to try to return to my more predictable troll personna next week! :)

No need to hurry, Curtis...but I could take some seriously outrageous position to provide some ammunition for you if it would make you feel better (heh)...

Faaackkk youuuuuuu.

interesting you say that...it was widely criticized as being a terrible influence on adolescents, promoting a horribly cynical view of life.

"By the late 1950s, according to Ian Hamilton, it had 'become the book all brooding adolescents had to buy, the indispensable manual from which cool styles of disaffectation could be borrowed'"

I love that quote: in other words, it became "cool" to be "disaffected" and "brooding", and many subsequent novels borrowed its tone and outlook. I can't imagine that promoting cynicism, moodiness, and disaffection could have a positive impact on society.

And for this he is revered.

the death of a creep, nothing more

At 18, she was a legal adult. He wasn't doing anything illegal.

"legal" versus "moral", quite a big difference. And if you read her comment, it;s clear she felt exploited.
"They exchanged 25 letters, and Maynard dropped out of Yale the summer after her freshman year to live with Salinger in Cornish, New Hampshire.[1] Maynard spent ten months living in Salinger's Cornish home, during which time she completed work on her first book, Looking Back, a memoir that was published in 1973. Her relationship with Salinger ended abruptly just prior to the book's publication; according to Salinger's daughter Margaret, he ended things because Maynard wanted children and he felt he was too old.[2] According to Maynard's memoir, he cut off the relationship suddenly while on a family vacation with her and with his two children; she was stunned and begged him to take her back. According to Maynard she had dropped out of Yale to be with him, forgoing a scholarship. She never finished college."

So this 43-year old guy starts exchanging lettes with this 18 year old girl, promises to love her and live with her forever, enticing her to have a relationship, engages in a prolonged sexual encounter until she wants to have children, at which point he backs out of his previous promises and he ends the relationship.

Yeah, he sounds like a really "cool" guy. I guess you wouldn't mind if some 40 something guy lured your teen daughter over for sex and dumped her when it got serious?

Or, maybe I should say, you wouldn't mind if he was a famous artist. If it was anyone else, he'd just be a "creep".

So he wasn't a paragon of virtue...very few of us are. History is filled with artists and creative people who deal with their own quirks and demons. The results of these struggles are often held up as unique visions into what it means to be alive in all its messiness and imperfections.

And, while I'm at it, let me remind you there are plenty of so-called "whack jobs" that identify themselves a being part of the so-called "conservative movement."

Yeah I read her book, At Home IN the World. I had loved J.D. Salinger since first reading Catcher in the Rye, and then devouring his short stories about the Glass family and such. But reading her point of view, and her story I just couldnt get over how hypocritical and deranged Salinger seemed. I dont know. He was a brilliant writer but (from what we've all read) a crazy person. You can't just judge him by one, but I think that in his death his major contributions to literature, culture, and society as a whole should be remembered.

Every single historical, literary, and political figure has skeletons in their closet. We should not presume that people are perfect and hate them for actions we cannot come to understand. J.D. Salinger revolutionized the literary world much the same way that Michael Jackson changed the face of pop music. However when Michael Jackson died, we remember him by the music and the legacy he left behind, not by his questionable lifestyle and accusations of pedophilia.

The Catcher in the Rye, Franny and Zooey, and all his short stories illustrated the stuggles of growing up and trying to understand what it means to be mature and whether or not growing up is something we should all aspire to. I, for one, am 22 and find it hard to relate to my older co-workers who are 'grown up' and mature. Does this make me a pedophile? Plus, the girl was 18, not 10. It may be frowned upon, but not illegal.

Plus, people actually do drink their own urine sometimes for survival or spiritual purposes. It's squeamish, yes, but not sick. Not everyone can fit into your little cookie cutter of perfection.

I'm not sure I necessarily believe the claims of a bitter ex-lover. I'm not saying she's lying, but I'm not convinced she's not just seeking attention. We'll never know.:

"In 1989, [Maynard's] marriage having failed, she set out on what would end up being for her, as she called it, a 'many-years-long search for true love, while engaged in raising kids.' This search included a six-month love affair with a musician, followed by a period during which she had casual sexual flings with a number of men.

'Fifteen minutes into our first date,' one of these men says, 'Joyce kept referring to this guy named Jerry. She was talking about ‘Jerry this’ and ‘Jerry that.’ It was as though they still knew each other. It took me a few minutes to figure out that the Jerry she was talking about was J. D. Salinger.

'Joyce,' he continues, 'is the most self-obsessed person I’ve ever met. She gives narcissism a bad name.'

I mean, why are you still talking about "Jerry" all these years later on a first date. Sounds obsessed.

Read more: J. D. Salinger’s Women http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/features/2162/index2.html#ixzz0e7tIQolK

i wish they would just dump his stupid corpse ina river, he's not worthy of having "flowers dumped on his belly"

No, not a great man. A good author. A terrible disaster of a man.

what makes this sick bastard "cool"? he was a twisted individual, nothing more

He was, in my opinion, an excellent author. That's really all I care about.

Mariased, I'm not attacking you personally, so I apologize if my response seemed personal. It was not directed at you. I don't like Salinger because he was a bit of a freak--in a very bad way.

I think someone can say "he wrote a good book", but to say "he is cool" is another thing entirely. He was a borderline pedophile, a guy who could NOT deal with the real world, never seemed to mature, his own kids said he was a horrendous father who was extremely controlling and just sick (his daughter claims he drank his own urine).

I just can't agree that wackos like Salinger and Roman Polanski are cool when in their own personal lives they were disasters.

I get what you're saying. I never really looked into his personal life. He definitely has some aspects about him, as I hear from you, that aren't cool. I just based my opinion on his creative mind. Most creative people are pretty fucked up in one way or another. No hard feelings. I didn't take it personally.

I understand. It's easy to do, I'm not sure that even I don't fall for it sometimes (I don't mean that to sound arrogant, I mean that I try to be aware of the difference between a person's creations and my feelings about them, and the PERSON, and even tho I try to be aware, I can still fall for the generalization of how I feel about the person based upon what they did as an artist--I just try not to).

It's happened with M Jackson, too--he wrote some great music, but let's face it, the dude was a creep around young boys.