Palin at Teaparty Convention, America needs good old fashioned divine intervention for security

Exactly. Even so, she never put herself out there as far as telling her supporters specific remedies to the problems we face in our country. Instead, she suggests that America should rally behind "common sense conservative principles" and she never elaborates on what that is -- but have faith in the Lord and everything will be fine, right? Talk about blind faith.

Oh come on now! She wouldn't rape the Earth to help her friends like bush did. Would She?

George Washington believed deism. He was not christian. Read a history book. He believed that god had nothing to do actions on earth.

Read the declaration of independence

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their [Creator] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The reason you enjoy your freedoms today is because our founders knew that God had to play a central role in our society.

the creator is what one makes of it. I don't think the framers intended for man to be a thrall of whatever made them.

You're fully entitled to believe what you will as is everybody else in Americanad elsewhere.

There is no God/holy spirit/magic virgin/traveling faith healer in charge of my life, as far as I am aware.
But I do know that the preamble to the United States Constitution includes 'we the people' and not your gods nor anyone else's.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Who decides which god is the creator and by what rules. You claim it is the bible, but billions would disagree with you on that one.

The government will put themselves in the place of our [Creator] if we dont understand this fundamental issue.

The government will decide who gets rights and who doesnt.

Well Jubal, how free are Islamic countries?

You just contradicted yourself, before you said that the chain of command was god, then people, then government. You still keep talking like the government is something separate, unless that is what you want.

If we support the Teaparty movement and people like Palin who use religion as the basis of their authority to govern, then we are totally going to see Revelations come true. The Great Harlot will become a reality with Fundamentalist Christianity sitting in an American Theocracy controlled by religious zealots and gun toting radicals.

How free are homosexuals in this so called Christian nation of yours? They aren't allowed the god given inalienable right to their pursuit of happiness if they have to suffer discrimination and denial of human rights; like marriage and family?

promote the general Welfare.....thank you.....this is what Teabaggers call socialism. Hello.....

No, the government needs to leave the people alone, and be limited by the constitution.

Its funny how Obama says that the constitution is a list of "negative liberties" and it never says what "the government must do on your behalf."

The whole point of the constitution is to limit the governments power

Obama's plan is to get everyone on welfare, overwhelm the system with impossible demands, so that when it collapses, he can recreate it in his own image.

'Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.'
Thomas Jefferson

Well, I guess your god is falling down on the job. If this god of yours is at the top of the grand hierarchy as you claim, then why are things so fucked up? The gov., as unresponsive to the peoples' needs and wishes as they are these days, still provides services to the public. I don't see your god helping anyone out. All I hear from your god is alot of threats against people who don't fall prostrate and worship it (along with the constant begging for handouts by those who supposedly represent this god.) I hear much derision from those on the right about people who rely on government for anything. Yet the same people think that it's time for some "divine intervention?"

There's only one element in your little equation that will bring relief to this nation, that's the people. Maybe there are too many people in this country who rely on the government, but there are many more who rely on superstitious fantasy to save the day. If xtians, or any other flavor of believer, want to worship their gods, they are free to do so. But please, leave your delusions at home or in church and don't bring them to the public discourse. It only muddies the waters and prevents focus on the real life issues.

I like that quote

No mention of the word "God" in there. If you were to take a Geology stance on this issue, It was algae that first put Oxygen in our atmosphere that made earth livable for us. So algae would be our creator. All they are saying is you are born with this right.They also were against a state sponsored religion in our constitution. That is NOT written in ambiguous terms, but I guess we will conveniently overlook that.

Is that what your pastor told you?

No Jubal, i came up with that on my own.

What does creationism advocate>?

I see, so you have some of your own "divine inspiration" going on.

They are not free because they have crazy religious people controlling everything, which is exactly what Palin wants to do here. Religion has no place in Government EVER!

To bad you don't understand it.

Wow Jan you're good

BINGO!

Thats what it was at one time. Not so much any more.

"Read the deceleration of independence"

hahaha this is too good! dude you just wrote DECELERATION of independence. for all your ideological inconsistencies and your willingness to completely ignore reasonable arguments that refute your positions, you've still managed to come up with a really witty play on words that could be interpreted in so many ways! seriously, my hat is off to you on this one. and i'm guessing it was unintentional, right? this is golden.

oh yah i though my spell check would fix that, thanks for the heads up though

it also says "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." Laws of nature and nature's god, sounds kinda Paganistic to me. Not quite Christian, is it? Maybe, if the vast majority of signers were Christian instead of deiest, you might have a point. No where in the declaration or the constitution does it say anything about Jesus Christ, which you think it would if we were actually a Christian nation. And isnt removing God from our lives exactly whay Christianity has done? Christians no longer worship God, they worship Christ, a MAN!!!

Jesus was God in flesh

"Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM"

John 8:58

If I can change the subject just a wee bit, there is something I don't get about the whole faith in the bible. The bible was written by man, technically it was written by many men over many far spread out years. Now I've heard the argument that God dictated to these men what they were to write, but that is no more or less provable than people claiming what happens to our consciousness and/or soul after we die. Now if that pisses anyone off, then I apologize, but I'm probably going to be getting a bit more insulting before I'm done.

Say, perhaps for a moment, that the stories within the bible, both new and old testament, were written as a fiction or fairy tale? With all of the potentially evil and horrid things done because of the bible or in the name of Jesus, this would be the greatest cause of mass hysteria over the greatest period of time in the history of our planet. And the hypothetical that I am proposing is not too far out there if you think about it. Take the original airing of the War of the Worlds radio broadcast for example. Of the 6 million listeners, 1.7 thought that the broadcast of a popular and fictional story was actually a real time news report that was reporting our demise under the extermination of a technologically advanced alien species.

The potential irony of this would be played out completely though if several hundred years from now, the Harry Potter books were taken as a gospel for a new religion that overthrows general Christianity.

"And then Dumbledore sacrificed himself in order to fool Voldemort and create an opening which Harry Potter could later exploit!"

[Chant the followers] "Expeliamus!"

HA! Praise be the Father, the Son and the Harry Ghost.

Jesus is a myth created by men in order to get other men to do thier bidding and give them thier money. There is no truth to the bible, it's just a collection of stories put together in an attempt to make money.

BTW I take the "-6" votes as an accomplishment

I like your perspective and historical documentation. The only thing I could add is I have always understood the people who wrote the bible did so many, many years after Jesus had died and they didn't even know him.

Why wouldn't you consider the -6 votes as an accomplishment? If you get that many votes, either for or against you, then you're probably making an interesting argument, and this place would be boring without interesting arguments. I do wish though that the system that let's us see how many people voted us up or down allowed us to see how many voted for and how many voted against instead of a total of the two. With -6 votes you could have just gotten 6 votes against, or you could have gotten 30 votes for you and 36 against. I think that actually makes a big difference.

Closer inspection of a photo of Sarah Palin, during a speech in which she mocked President Obama for his use of a teleprompter, reveals several notes written on her left hand. The words "Energy", "Tax" and "Lift American Spirits" are clearly visible. Is she that stupid that she couldn't remember that short list while answering a question that she knew in advance?

Good find!

I do too Jan, From what I understand there are many sincere teaparty participants.

Well, going out on limb, I will say yes there were. People actually from both parties who truly believe in what the Founding Fathers wanted America to be, but who will now be silenced and diminshed by the political forces looking for revenge. This is why party politics in America is actually detrimental to democracy. Washington knew it. Jefferson knew it. Adams knew it. Once you have factions, freedom goes out the window along with the soul of the country.There is no doubt we need change in this country to get back to what was lost. But it isn't going to come in the form of a Sarah Palin manchurian candidate who is just as soiled politically as the rest of them. I say, shame on her for using the very people she claims to care about. Had she turned down McCain's Vp invitation, she might have some credibility. She ruined that the moment she accepted to become a part of the status quo and I hope those people who truly wanted a party that was for change see that they will get nothing of the kind now.

Completely agree with you Jan, especially when she had only been governor for only two years. She could have been a contender in the future, but instead she was a McCain pinup doll and nothing more. She was chosen because of being a woman and her "values" to bring the "faithful" in line with him and give swing voters another female to vote for instead of Hillary.

Yes, so shame on her again for allowing herself to be used based on her sex. You don't run just because you are a woman or for what you can get out of it, you run because you care about this country and its people. I wouldn't vote for her if she were the only candidate running. Her enviromental, or should I say ANTI-environmental views would surely be the ruination of not only this country, but the globe. She exemplifies the reason why I am no longer part of party politics. She like so many politicians is a player, a user, a fake. Which is why in all honesty I get tired of seeing her permeating the news here on Current. But that's just my opinion.

Santa Claus is a pagan fantasy, you probably mean the archangel Gabriel will bring you tax cuts and a box full of falsified votes

A fantasy is a fantasy....but thanks for keeping me straight. :)

Dick Army is one of those out of politics who is backing with money the Tea Party movement

I like your definition of the Tea Party "movement."

Shades of when Ross Perot ran and Bush 41's chances of beating Clinton.

The Reichwing are in the business of marketing FEAR

One of my pet peeves is how the word "liberal" has been turned into something direty by the Reichwing. These same people send their kids to a "liberal" arts college. Hmmmmm!

Thanks for the history lesson. I also like how you call them "pea tardy"

Again, I say this, even the Roman empire could not assimilate and conquer all the cultures it encountered.

yes it could, it did. Every new pagan god was included in the immense Roman religion, they had gods for everything, a god for fire, a god for doorlocks, but the GOP isn't the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire did have a pantheon of gods, true, until it became the "Holy Roman Empire" under Constantine, then Jesus was their only God.

True but that happened only around 300 A.D. and because the christian religion was getting bigger and bigger like the empire that needed to be united. After Constantine there were only minor conquests so they didn't assimilate any other culture and even though strict laws were applied to the empire that happened only with Theodosius around the year 400 A.D. when everybody had to be christian. Constantine was actually pagan and Rome was a pagan city, the unification of the empire under the same religion was one of the causes that led to the destruction of the western empire. Because of the Constatntine edict Constantine founded Constantinople because Rome was still a pagan city, so the Empire had two capitals one in the east and one in the west, after one hundred years the west will collapse

If you have to ask apparently you don't have it.

Absolutely not, I know what the heart is to me, but everybody has a different take on that. I wanted to hear what 2hellenwait had to say.

For quite some time I've observed and weighed your comments jubal, and imho, your heart is not that of an American, but that of a socialist.

If that is the worst that you think of me then I am doing quite well.

I love America and I believe in honest capitalism and freedom. But my heart bleeds when I see the injustice being perpetrated in the name of freedom. This movement of the Teabaggers is not a movement based on anything but hate; hate for anyone who doesn't "do as the Romans." This is so old but it never dies, the fear and loathing of "the other" is alive and well in America.

I own a business and I create jobs. I pay my taxes and I participate in national discourse. I am patriotic but not to the America that is represented by the Evangelical Christians or the Teabaggers. Talk about divisive and dominating, these groups want to call all the shots for everyone. And in my power to communicate I am going to be an activist to fight this kind of thinking and actions.

Ignorant people throw the Socialist word around not understanding its true meaning. They regurgitate false meanings that were created to propagandize America's involvement in the cold war.

You guys are so funny calling me a socialist for caring about the poor, the orphans, the widows, the homosexuals, the politically disadvantaged, the working class, the sick, the dying, and all the rest of the black sheep of society. You see in my reality, everyone is loved and cared for as part of a human family, not just my local community or state or cultural identity or nation or language.

I live what Jesus taught rather than talk about it or hijack his name to justify selfishness like many Christian political leaders do in the world today.

Pardon me that I may suggest anything that may deter your warm and fuzzy self righteousness. . . but you are right, this is America, and you're free to think and do you as you will, that is, until the socialist utopia you desire should be realized.

I don't understand what your beef with socialism is. Then again, I actually understand the definition of socialism, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Considering we live in a capitalist society now, socialism is a good thing to have since it would help to care for our people (i.e. social in socialism). If you're worried about some insane fringe conspiracy theory that socialism=communism, you're wrong.

Even so, true communism isn't bad, it's like capitalism but the government distributes everything and employing instead of corporations. Sure, it would turn the land of opportunity to a land of distribution, but it's an alternative to .5% of the people owning 90% of the wealth in this country.

I would prefer social programs in the same vein of single-payer health-care to a complete government type overhaul.

Jesus also had the heart of a socialist.

Kansas. That's the heart of America.

Kansas is the heart of America? So I guess that makes California the penis and Arizona is the testicles.

Wrong. Florida is the penis.

Seth had the heart of a divine cow.

Is it a metaphore?

God.

Socialism is a precursor to communism

There isn't an American alive that does not rely on so-called 'socialist' programs for their very survival. That includes your self, hell.

Please name one.

2hellnwait, you are really funny and a pill. Being charitable and kind makes me self righteous. That is funny stuff. Tell me more.

thank you, someone else who actually understands words.

Yes and what a nice big one it is at that. Mojo needs to get his/her head out of the gutter.

Really, Ibrake?

"Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended."

Clarification: The PEOPLE and WORKING CLASS own the corporations/businesses/etc. Working class makes executive decisions and distributes food and other resources. Workers are paid based on the amount of labor performed: the harder you work, the more money you make.

OOOHHH IT SOUNDS SO SCARY!!!!

"Communism is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well as a political philosophy and social movement that advocates and aims to create such a society."

Clarification: Government controls property and class separations are eliminated.

Supposedly, Marx thought Socialism would be a precursor to Communism, but if the people become the government and control business, how does the government control the property, unless that body of government is the people?

In effect, if Socialism is a precursor to Communism, then it is STILL in the benefit to the working class.

""Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life."

Well, that doesn't sound so scary either, does it? The problem with Communism is that no one has been able to do it properly, not the ideology itself.

"Communism attempts to offer an alternative to the problems with the capitalist market economy and the legacy of imperialism and nationalism.

Marx states that the only way to solve these problems is for the working class (proletariat), who according to Marx are the main producers of wealth in society and are exploited by the Capitalist-class (bourgeoisie), to replace the bourgeoisie as the ruling class in order to establish a free society, without class or racial divisions."

Free capitalism at the cost of the working class' quality of life is social suicide. Democracy is the better method to give people opportunity to become wealthy, but Communism is the better method for assuring people are treated equally. If our Democracy wasn't ruled by capitalist corporations and politicians, then people wouldn't have a problem with it.

And for a bonus, I'll tell you what Capitalism is:
"Capitalism is an economic and social system in which capital, the non-labor factors of production (also known as the means of production), is privately owned; labor, goods and capital are traded in markets; and profits distributed to owners or invested in technologies and industries."

Capitalism is good for those on top and hell for those on bottom.

In that case, America isn't very excited right now - and global warming will surely reduce its size.

You got that right

* sigh* - I understand the meaning and context of socialism, and I could debate at length with you of the cons of socialism, as I could with jubal and SleepDirt as well, however, it assuredly would be to no avail. . . suffice it to say that were socialism to be the Utopian ideal that you all collectively believe it to be, it certainly has yet to be realized - and pray tell why?
I see it as the proverbial camel sticking its nose under the tent, left unhindered and or unrestrained, soon it is fully in the tent, just as most often as not what were once vices, soon become habits.
Ironically (and I know I may be way off here), I see todays progressive socialist hungering for a socialist government with the fruits of Canaan without the engine of capitalism, which is as much a possibility as fried ice-cream. . .

Please do us a favor and leave the pseudo-biblical references out of the discussion so we can proceed without the bullshit and engage with some reason. The bible has nothing to do with the state of the nation. Nothing at all.

I am afraid that you are misguided and misinformed *if* you believe that progressives seek to obtain a purely socialist society and you give them far too little credit for their knowledge and observance of history wherein radical such experiments have tragically failed and would again, given the opportunity.

But the same can be said for unfettered free markets as witnessed right in the United States in the past 30 years, culminating in the disaster that we are all witnessing today. Look around you. The empire s crumbling and 'recovery;' is not likely going to look like it did after the last crash.

Either socialism or capitalism, in their 'pure' form, are an anathema to a successful society and neither alone can *ever* work, outside of an outright totalitarian police state, and even then, as we saw in the USSR, it's only temporary and will last long enough to enrich the corrupted elites that happen to be in power at the time.

What you need to understand is that progressives are supportive of the concept of an economy that is a balance of socialism and capitalism that can work in harmony given the appropriated supervision and oversight. You know, all those rules that Reagan and Clinton pitched out the window.
This is something that is not radically different than that which we live under now, save for the supervision and oversight part.
Keep this in mind: Corporations are solely profit-motivated and are anything but benevolent entities by nature. They will grind you and me into dust in a heartbeat and never once even blink.

It is an extremely dangerous notion that a society should blindly entrust everything to something that is of the nature of Wall St.
If you think these people are some kind of patriots that are going to right by there countrymen because it's the American thing to do, witness the carnage they have heartlessly and selfishly inflicted upon us all.

LOL. I thought it was the anus