U.S. soldier 'waterboarded his own daughter, 4, because she couldn't recite alphabet'

Really?

He DID hurt her physically. The article clearly states that she had bruises and cuts on her neck from it. Waterboarding is used as a form of TORTURE. At no point is it acceptable to use military torture techniques on children. It's a lot different than being forced to eat your vegetables, because eating your vegetables, unlike having your head submerged in water so that you feel you're going to immanently drown, is beneficial to growth and not psychologically damaging.

The federal criminal code defines torture as "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control." Other than the "under color of law part" this fits... Unless you want to drag his uniform into this?

I'm sure that's exactly why he waterboarded his daughter, to get famous!

Sorry jack, there are other forces at work here. I understand your point that plenty of people abuse their children, not just any one type of person from any one background, but this guy did not abuse his child to get media attention.

He didn't do it for some liberal propaganda campaign or agenda. And yes, people are going to freak out about this, it comes with the territory in politically charged debates. The problem here is the reality of the situation creates certain sympathies that align politically. It's sad too, that a story like this might reach the hands of our enemies, be twisted and used to justify treating our own soldiers certain ways. Which is a reason so many of us were so adamant at the time about torture in the first place, the way we act ultimately will impact the way we are treated.

It's been around since the Spanish inquisition. He could have gotten anywhere, but it is assumed that he learned it in the military because the Bush regime legalized water boarding, along with stress positions, sensory deprivation, fear exploitation, sudden extreme temperature changes and other things to be used as *cough* "debriefing" techniques to be used on suspected terrorists.

If a human makes the decision to kill or harm an innocent person, it's a personal decision. He can refuse the order. He can refuse the peer pressure. Those with real balls have stood up and done as much. Anyone who does anything less is not a man or woman. They are not taking responsibility for their actions. There is always a choice. Following orders is a cop out. It is childish. A child blames others for their actions. Not adults. I don't exonerate this soldier. He deserves to pay for his actions to the fullest. If he is insane then get him the hell away from his innocent family. Get him some help. But get him away from civilized society.

If it is the Army's fault then sue the Army. But don't go around and say it's OK, it was just PTSD, or that we have to accept these things. Bull fucking shit. It is not acceptable.

Yeah it's a cop out to say you were just following orders, but if you disobey them in the military, you go to prison and could possibly be charged with treason, depending on what/how you disobey.

There's a quote that comes to mind, "He who appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. He who cannot survive without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honor." I heard this in a Lamb of God song but it could have been around before them. It seems fair enough, but nothing is what it seems. There is no room for civilians in this quote, and there's no place for them in a war either, especially in a war like this one, when one minute the enemy is obviously shooting at you, and the next minute, the enemy is a civilian hiding a few pounds of plastic explosive under his clothes.
I have authority issues (note the plural): I was arrested once for refusing to sit at the request of an officer. I would never do anything that I'm am not behind 100%, but not everyone is like me. I would like to think that I would be above shooting innocent people, but until I'm am in a situation that would require me to make that choice I cannot say with any conviction that I'm stronger than these soldiers in your video. It should be easy to say "I agree with you completely! These people are not people! They're dogs!" but how can you pretend to know what it's like until you've been there? And after watching your video, I find that I can relate more to them than to you, after all, they now have names, faces and problems that move me. To me you're just JonRaymond who happens to have an opinion about something he probably doesn't have any experience with.
I'm not saying that everything that these soldiers do can be justified because they are acting on behalf of our government in the patriotic spirit of freedom, I'm just saying that these things are not simple. It should be simple, but it obviously isn't if so many soldiers are being destroyed by their experiences in this war.
I have a thing against hurting people. I just don't like it on principal, I'm not positive that I could defend myself properly if I had to mortally wound someone in the process and I won't know until I have to find out. But just the same, I may find I like it. I may find that I have no reason not to destroy everyone I come across.

I'm just saying.

I find what you say about the law and the military revolting and disgusting. It only has any meaning or relevance in the context of war and the military. I see you have to deliniate between civilians and military. That dilineation is contrived and doesn't exist in the real world. You live in a delusion, I think.

I'm not sure I even understand you. But law is not the end all and be all of life and existence. it is merely the last resort we fall on when all else fails. However, the military is not like that. The military lives only by law because they have to control everything and everyone both internal and external against human nature. The military is unnatural and an abominations to all things good, of nature and of God.

And this is where we find soldiers in the dilemma of dealing with being a military automaton or being human and natural. When they find they can't resolve this they simply check out, taking the many lives with them.

Yes, you are right to find more relevance in the video with these men who go through it. That's why I posted it. My posts and passions are not based on my own experience, which is like Disneyland compared to what these guys went through. But I can read and think, as do many others who know that war is horror and an abomination to all of humanity. No one ever wins. There is no glory, or pride in war. Those things only exist for the men and women who serve and in the act of service. But not in the act of war. It is a dilemma. There is no reason why people should have to commit the horrors of war to be glorious and find honor. It is ludicrous, as is the military.

No I don't know what it's like to face "these people." But you face them in the context of occupation and war. If they occupied your hometown, would you not react the same way as they do to you?

God knows we have to live with the consequences of our actions.

No you obviously don't understand what I am getting at. The gist of what I'm saying is that while soldiers should be confined to shooting other soldiers, it appears that in this war (as well as many others) it is mostly impossible to tell the difference between soldier and civilian. So when you say that these soldiers who have endured what you admittedly can't imagine are less than man and woman I feel the need to defend them to a certain extent. There is no new code of honor to guide them through this. They only have their superiors to go to for guidance. I may have mental problems but I assure you that I am well aware of the world in which I live. I cannot imagine the world that these soldiers live in, but when that one said he essentially had talk himself out of shooting a child, I tried. What would you have to experience to have to talk yourself out of shooting a child?
You say, "Better to face a court martial with honor than to live in shame and dishonor for the rest of your life." Then you soon follow with, "The military is unnatural and an abominations to all things good, of nature and of God." There was no draft for this war, so how can you willingly join an abomination then act with honor? Are you living in delusion?
Apparently you not only had a problem with understanding my comment, but also with reading it. I said "There is no room for civilians in this quote, and there's no place for them in a war either, especially in a war like this one, when one minute the enemy is obviously shooting at you, and the next minute, the enemy is a civilian hiding a few pounds of plastic explosive under his clothes." What I was saying is that we sheltered people expect a soldier to be able to the difference between civilian and soldier when in all reality delineation is impossible and probably a deadly mistake.
Now before you make another comment, do some soul searching, some researching, really think about the shit these guys have to go through and then tell me that before you did anything "dishonorable" you would be able to see it as dishonorable, and not as a necessity to survival.
I'm not condoning it. I would say that it is obvious that harming civilians is shameful, but you need to make room for things you don't understand as well. These soldiers wouldn't be killing themselves in such large numbers if they thought what they did was justified, but what do you think caused them to swing back and forth between such huge differences in behavior? What could cause them to kill at will to protect themselves and their comrades and then come home and kill themselves in shame?

Longest fucking gist of my life...

Right. Our vets are above the law.

No shit

I didn't say he was above the law. I think that what he did was wrong, but I'm just saying that this situation needs to be put in context. Obviously, something is wrong with the guy mentally. The PTSD can easily blur his fundamental understanding of right and wrong.

Exactly my point.

Right. It's not like our military men would look up to our own government standards that they swore to protect and defend is it? The military says waterboarding is OK. So why wouldn't a military man believe the same?

The question Is waterboarding legal or not? If its not legal people should be prosecuted, if waterboarding is legal drop the charges against the father. Its that simple.

Whether or not it is "legal" is actually not the question. Sex is legal, sex with a four year old is a crime. Waterboarding a child is child abuse.

Awe, the poor little big strong girly military men have PTSD. Give them a break. They can't help it if they kill innocent people or even their own 4 year old daughters. They've been trained to kill children. God knows they have no balls to stand up to anyone bigger than they are.

Good use of sarcasm.

The U.S. military

Of course not. It's not this guy's fault that he was trained by the U.S. military to be racist and dehumanizing. It's the way of life in the military. Life means nothing there.

And probably a greater fear of fathers. This guy's dad must have been a real winner as well. Rotten apples don't fall far from the twisted tree.

I apologize. You've more than earned your comments and they aren't anything you had to earn in the first place. Unfortunately in some cases Americans have the right to run their mouths, I wasn't trying to play the part of armchair general but I shouldn't have presupposed all i did was make an ass out of myself.

However regardless, this is a tragic situation. Not for the man but obviously for t his daughter that had to go through that. I was raised in part by a Navy veteran who went through a tour during peacetime but had OCD and other issues that the military didn't exactly help with when he got home. I can't imagine what happens to guys who have problems before going into the shit and then have to readjust coming home but obviously that doesn't excuse his or any others actions either in war or outside of it.

Forget about it.

honestly, that's a really stupid thing to say. yeah lets disband the military! then what?

Duh!! Disband the military and then use Palin's plan for divine intervention to protect the country stupid!! Pshhh Idiot! (sarcasm on)

ha! right on

Bush and Cheney are living pretty well.