Religion has no placed in modern society.

Ohhhh unimatrix how unhappy you must be? que pena:(

I am unhappy that such a poorly written, juvenile piece of shit is representing atheists, free thinkers and agnostics.

Your lazy, sloppy, ill conceived and ill written post is disrespectful to all atheists, agnostics and free thinkers.

The fact that you seem to take pride in your ignorance is puzzling, and no doubt reflects an attempt to mask your own deep insecurity.

Go back to school, get that GED, learn how to write a coherent paragraph, and take some pride in yourself.

Good luck chiquita

And for the rest of you currenteers:

Be Brave;
Be Strong;
Be an Atheist!

(and use a spell check)

Thanks///jijijiji I love the chiquitita part it was clever///very clever///jajjaja

Right, because pride comes not from one's convictions, but rather from how they form those convictions into paragraphs. I hope you realize just how superficial your criticism is, and how it stems from your own insecurity based on how you think other people will view atheists in general. If someone is stupid enough to think that grammatical errors equates to atheism being invalid, then fine, let them be stupid. Why do you have to stoop to that level? The meaning is what is important, not the words. The grammar is only superficially important. Our society in general focuses on the superficial and I find that to be the cause of many of our society's ills. It is a form of ignorance.

I respect most things you say, however I cannot respect you attacking someone, whose first language is not English, for grammar mistakes in such an insulting and immature manner.

My first attempt at critique was actually gentle. However, after Brava attacked me for gently pointing out that a little care might make her position more convincing, I figured the gloves were off and let her have it.

While I am sympathetic to ESL students, I have little patience with those who take pride in their ignorance, and care so little about their readers that they will not make the slightest effort to make their writing more intelligible.

It goes without saying that Brava's inability to write a coherent argument has no bearing on the truth of atheism.

However, I take issue with your claim that the art of writing is superficial. Reading and writing are profound methods of communication that should be treated with respect and reverence.

Nevertheless, I do appreciate your input, and wish you, Brava, and all members of the community, only the best.

Thanks. I wish you all the best as well.

BTW my new avatar is the trivium. It represents grammar, logic, and rhetoric. I do think grammar is important, but I think the meaning/idea behind someone's expression of that meaning/idea is even more important.

is it 2012 yet? because I sense this is the end of the world. I actually agree with unimatrix.

Brava, I'm not a fan of unimatrix--hell, I personally consider unimatrix to be something of my foil on this site--but in this case, she/he is right.

To post an essay on a site like this in which you have not properly researched the topic andhave not taken the time to write the article with care is not only disrespectful "to all atheists", as uni says, but to all the readers.

is there an excuse why you didn't take the time to clean up the writing and actually research the topics? How can you POSSIBLY think that the case for secularism is helped by pointing out Mao and Stalin when they were atheists and secularists who massacred tens of millions of people?

Boy, that will sure make your wish for a secularist nation REALLY attractive.

And Trivium is also the name of an awesome Metal band too!

well, you know how often I disagree with you, but in this case, I think there are two areas of concern.

the first, her grammar, is something that will get better in time. I realize you were gentle, and I'm not really too fond of someone who is learning the language who take the attitude of "im proud of my errors", so I get your point.

but she's pretty young, her english will improve, let's not bruise her up over that.

more importantly, to me anyway, were so many of the ideas that were half-baked and poorly researched. again...she's young, she'll learn.

i just tend to think that if you are going to go onto a site like this one and share your treatise on life and promote your agenda...dang, you better polish that baby up.

you are totally right on that.

(I think i've agree with you three times today. something is WRONG with the world)

Hear Hear!

if you like Joseph Campbell, read the real deal: Carl Jung

I do, hence the archetypal reference. =)

An analogy: Alcoholism is inherently a problem with a person. The alcohol is not a problem by itself. However, you do not give alcohol to an alcoholic or it will not end well.

Give the ignorant masses an excuse, in the form of religion, to hate and kill each other, and it will not end well.

Is an honor that you wrote in my blog///your wisdom is well appreciated. In regards to your situation I do believe that been positive will bring good energy is not a fact but it will make the journey less harsh///I send you my love and my respect:D

well said

Hey, I appreciate the kind thoughts and words. It's absolutely true that being positive instead of negative about most matters helps the person to make it through easier and healthier. The mind does have an incredible effect on the body. Thank you again for helping to keep me in the positive!

It is funny that always when people feel that they do not have any argument they attack/// do you think I am offended by your criticism of my spelling errors, that is insignificant compare to the idea that I want to convey... But keep crawling in you mental cave and let me be with my errors. I have something you do not have smart ideas and I speak my mind and that my friend not education will give to you even if you spell better than me/////:D

Okie :)

I agree with some of what you said. I hope you're not offended, that isn't the point.
You obviously don't have a problem speaking your mind whether or not you are offending anybody, so I wrote my comment with that in mind.

You feel attacked and so you attack back? That's interesting.

Yes you have smart ideas, and I do not. You know this from the one post that I've ever entered on Current, which was a criticism of how you disregard the idea of reliability (IE looking like you know what you're talking about) when writing a paper.

:D Talk about a mental cave.

Keep on trucking though

Your "United State" gives you the right to speak your mind, so continue.

My United State////is our USA and we should be fighting for it, because religion is destroying it; but you too busy worrying about my grammatical errors and not the bases of my argument. According to you that is more important than having a good debate///It is not an attack from my part it is call a response /// every day is a learning experience for me/// life is a journey and I am taking part of it not in the side walk criticizing/// Thanks for your opinion anyhow:d

You're welcome. Maybe we helped each other grow today.

It might be your United StateS of America... not mine. Proud to be a non-American.
But America is a great country full of great people, America stands for good values, most of the time.

Brava,

I agree with your ideas. Religion and belief in god(s) is a cancer. Religion is the home for ignorance, superstition and bigotry. Religion threatens our survival as a species.

However, jamt is right. You really should use a spell check, work on your grammar, and get your facts straight. (Separation of church and state is not an amendment in the constitution, although many believe the first amendment implies separation of church and state).

Your presentation is an embarrassment to yourself and the cause of free thinkers, agnostics, atheists and humanists.

If you want your writing to be taken seriously, you must take your writing seriously. As it is now, you do not. Your lack of care and concern for the simple mechanics of writing is nothing to be proud of, it just means you are happy with being lazy and sloppy.

Look out Brava, it's the grammar police! I know English is not your first language and I take what you actually mean from this. I don't really care about errors as long as I can still understand it.

Also, the 1st amendment more than merely implies the separation of church and state.

Unimatrix, since you are so perfect in your grammar and it is so important for you, maybe you should correct all the errors and help me, as a student I will appreciated:D//// You see I do not believe my presentation is an embarrassment it is my idea presented the way I know best and how I believe it should be but I welcome the feed back regardless of the fact that your intentions are to make me look bad. Still with or with out grammatical errors I will always write and the good thing is you have the choice of not to read it:D///thanks

What? I'm not sure if you are responding to me or unimatrix, but neither of us believe in any gods. I was defending you, not attacking you. It does not bother me in the slightest that you made some mistakes and I agree with what you wrote.

The point is that the way you present your ideas matters.

If someone painted the word "BANK" on the side of a van and claimed to be a bank where you can keep your money safe.. you wouldn't fall for it (I hope). Presentation matters.

Similarly, if a homeless looking man, walking around barefoot and in boxers approached you claiming to be a police officer and told you to put your hands on the hood of your car so he could pat you down, would you comply? No. Why? Because presentation matters.

If you write an article and it is full of bad grammar, weak argument and incorrect spelling, you will automatically loose reliability in the eyes of your readers even if you are trying to convey the most brilliant concepts and ideas.

Your ideas will suffer because of your presentation. Proceeding to attack the intelligence of anyone who points this out to you, does further to cripple your argument.

Minor mistakes in spelling, or a few weak statements in an article don't undermine the whole thing, but there is a point after which it will cause many people to disregard you and not take you seriously.

...

What are you even trying to say in your article anyway?

You title it, "Religion has no place in Modern Society" and then claim that "After you read my article I would have establish evidence to convince you to open your mind and to understand that religion is a personal choice and it has not place in Modern Society."

This is very presumptuous of you to claim that you WILL convince someone to 'open there mind'. This assumes that if they disagree with you for any reason their mind must be closed... which seems pretty closed minded of YOU mind-you.

So you WILL convince us that 1. "religion is a personal choice" ,
Okay, so I have the CHOICE to be religious..

and then 2. Religion "has not place in Modern Society"
So.. I have the choice to be religious, but it has no place in modern society?
Let's clarify, who make up society? People.
Do people have the choice to be religious? You say yes.
So does society or a part thereof, made up of people, have the choice to be religious?
You say no.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what it is you're trying to convince me of.

Almost all the statistics and quotes from research you refer to, seem to point to the fact that religion-influenced governments have poorer results than secular ones.

This does not support your thesis that "Religion has no place in society" , only that Religion has no place in Modern Government systems. Which, actually is a statement I could more or less agree on.

You need to either revise or clearly state what your view of Society is, versus Government, because the two are not interchangeable concepts.

Something cannot be part of a people's personal lives, without being part of society at large to some degree. In-directly one can carry this concept forward to say that in a democratic society, one can not therefore have a Government un-influenced by religion.

If the individual has a right to religion, then it is part of society, and if it is part of society, it will have some effect on a democratic Government. The degree of effect it should have is the debate.

I think the netherlands have it right. Allow society to have religion, but use the government to protect rights, not to enforce religious agendas.

Like it or not, however, but even a secular Government such as the Netherlands are effected by religion. They're very allowance of religion means they acknowledge it as a part of society. If they banned it they would be acknowledging it as well.

To say religion has NO place in modern society is such a broad, unevenly keeled statement that you have to expect there to be differing views or challenges to this.

Are you proposing a communist approach to religion? Where no individual has the right to religion. That's the only position to take if you are going to vehemently argues that religion has ZERO place in SOCIETY.

Thinks about it.

Please teach me how to read people's intentions, especially over the internet. That would be a great asset to me.

If you are going to place your, what should be, 'journalistic' report on a certain topic, you must be open to criticism. You need also to learn to take constructive criticism and use it to communicate your cause effectively. If this were a letter to a prospective employer or client, I can almost guarantee it would not get passed his/her secretary.

We all understand what you are trying to say.. but it's difficult to read, if you want more people to read your papers, it has to look reliable, with sources cited. A few grammatical errors and incorrect statements (without sources) can slide by, obviously.
Just like looking at a page with WAY too much stuff going on, too many colours, too many fonts, is difficult to read (principles of graphic design) there are 'rules' for writing as well.

I think you'd be so much better if you were able to write what you mean clearly, instead of it looking like a diary entry.

yes, if he's going to talk about intelligence why doesn't he check his grammer?
and for all of you ragging on the grammer queen unimatrix think about it. If you are going to post a professional article on the internet or a magazine, newspaper. make sure its fucking correct lest you look like a dumbass

While you spend so much time talking all this nonsense and corrections and b$$$%&% our country is falling behind. How old are you? where did you get your education?. I bet you if you have kids they not getting any real education, unless you have a lot money to pay for it. Stop worrying about my presentation and do something about your country. you criticize but, when was the last time you actually wrote something to try to educate or present ideas?... However you spend your time talking bad about mines:D

Noxidereus, sorry I meant the previous statement for unimatrix... I thank you for your comments and feedback :D

Only to people who look at the superficial at the expense of the substantial.

BTW he is a she.

"Thinks about it" OH - MY - GOD! Grammar error alert! I guess that completely negates any point you were trying to make.

I thought you WANTED a debate??
What is it you really want? She's debating with you, she's asking you to make clear on your statements... but you would rather do the same thing you are accusing everyone else of doing 'attacking' you. Hold please, let me get my violin.

She JUST spent time trying to EDUCATE AND PRESENT IDEAS.. but you believe that her ideas are not brilliant like yours?

This is the future of America. THIS is what you need to protect yourselves from.

Once again, this is what the People of America need to protect themselves against.

Did you actually READ what I wrote?

I asked you to clarify what you meant in your article..

If you don't want people to understand the point you are trying to get across why are you wasting your time posting your writing online?

Also, are you going to get angry at anyone who challenges you? Try to be objective for a moment. Or.. to use your words be "OPEN MINDED"

Did you miss the part where I even AGREED with some of the points I think you were trying to make?

Funny how you're jumping to conclusions about me, my education or whether or not I better my country.

I replied to you with a diplomatic, objective opinion. If you can't handle that in an adult mature way, you really ought not to be posting articles in a public forum then getting angry at comment-ors trying to discuss the point.

If you must know, I'm an adult, who will have 3 degrees by summer. All of which I earned for free, due to my Government. My children will have access to the same FREE education I had. I have won awards for my country, am proud of my country and support my country. You bet wrong.

I did not sit and 'talk bad about' your post. I gave some constructive criticism. In writing my comment in fact I actually, "wrote something to try educate or present my ideas" as you say I should do.

Because you disagree with those ideas, (or perhaps did not care to take the time to read them) you stoop to the level of calling them "nonsense" and "b$$$%&%"

....

PS. I have gleaned, from some other comments, that English might not be your first language, if that is so.. a precursor to your article (or an endnote to it) might help balance the fact that it is structurally poor in some ways and give people the understanding to be lenient in that area.

*here's to trying to be "open-minded" , objective and constructive in our statements

hehehe

I saw that after I posted and was waiting for that one ;)

But just remember my point was that

"Minor mistakes in spelling, or a few weak statements in an article don't undermine the whole thing, but there is a point after which it will cause many people to disregard you and not take you seriously."

Guess I should thinks abouts my spellings some mores.

yes it is not my first language and yet I was able to create a debate:d//// I love how angry people are about my presentation//// and the point was to show my ideas. When people debate they do not agree. But wait I am wrong I think is my English... I forgot I need a GED lololo I disagree with you and I am not upset I am just responding to my fellow spell checkers:d

Nobody is debating your topic, people are more debating your "writing style"

When people debate it does not necessarily mean they disagree. It means that they are pointing out flaws (which EVERYBODY has) in reasoning that they believe they notice. If you want to make your writing better, you should hear what they say and take it into consideration..

Just try to take the positive things and apply them to your next paper, which I am sure will be much better, so that people can look beyond imperfections and difficulties and understand clearly what you are trying to say.

Never get discouraged, continue to write.
Don't block out other people's criticism, unless you intend to write only for yourself in the future...

Fair enough.

Can't speak for other's but your grammar never angered me. It caused me to take your message less seriously (and made it harder to understand)

Like I said, I think if many people realized that English isn't your first language they wouldn't judge it as harshly in that area. If it were your first language you would come across as poorly educated and lazy as some people pointed out.

But at least in my eyes, I'd let it slide given the circumstances though I suggest that you give people a heads up on the issue. ( When in spanish speaking countries I apologize for my horrible spanish because I know I must sound stupid to anyone who really speaks it)

...

As for the content of the article.. my questions / challenges to your point remain :)

What I did not appreciate however, is personal assumptions and attacks because I disagreed with you or pointed out your weak writing.

so "thinks about that"

lol :-)

Yes, it usually doesn't take a whole lot of brains to see what someone means - it takes more effort to try and malign the thought process and subject by chopping on someone's particular speech.

If anyone wants to see someone's meaning or their soul - just look. It's easier and a lot more honest.

Well, you have an interesting take but religion at it's core is intolerant. So, this translates to the people who follow their particular brand and this in-turn filters into our everyday lives. When government tries to legislate equality for all citizens such as gay members of our society; this becomes a direct oppositional issue for those with a religious background who believe being gay is wrong in the "eyes of god".

Your argument that religion is not at the base of most governmental decisions is just wrong. Look at progressive northern European countries that have equal rights for their citizens regardless of their sexual identity. Most have no connection between a citizen's religious belief and what is best for their citizenry. I could care less what you or anyone else's sexuality is just let people live and others should ignore those that choose to worship imaginary beings. It is none of my/our business although, I expect the same from you and please keep your beliefs out of OUR political system.

I know this is a panacea and unfortunately will never happen in our non-progressive country.

indeed we should hold them accountable for there actions.
i would like to not be able to bring up religion but when religious people are trying to shove it down my throat and tell me that this is a christian country i cannot stand for that lie. but no matter how bad a religion is its the people that give it power when are we gonna learn to stop placing our trust in some imaginary man up in the sky and take our own destiny into our hands

It makes perfect sense

I know many people who are religious and do not act like you say they do. So what I am trying to say is that not everyone is the same. I know many people that are gay. They all seem to be getting along just fine.

I also have not been putting my beliefs in the political system nor am I shoving any religion down anyones throat. Just writing my opinion just like everyone else.

probably because they want it to get seen by someone... and someone is probably spamming the topic it belongs in... its a cycle really...

me too instead of forced moments of silence in school for "GOD"

WAIT! thats already in... the constitution. :O... whats going on here.....

hahahahha it is in our constitution////but people do not get it:D

Those moments of silence are for the fallen service men and women who died for the country. I would appreciate you not treating it like a burden.