Random Police Stops Reach Staggering Proportions

Yes it is Curtis.

no doubt.

Just like the church likes it. full submission to authority.

that's such BULLSHIT. the "church" has also been in the trenches fighting for racial equality, in fact most of the abolitionists, as well as the civil rights movements, were formed and encouraged in churches.

your bigotry is showing

what "church" are you referring to?

my man.

the enormity of this practice, and numbers of people involved really should call for a 'class action suit'...since the payment of money by the city/state involved is
historically the only thing which changes behavior.

carry a camera and video tape these fuckers. anytime I see a cop harassing some young kid I pull over and from a short distance (as in, 10-15 ft) I just quietly observe. I can tell it bothers them, having someone there watching THEM.

I'm not defending cops but what exactly is their job?
Eating donuts and drinking coffee?
When someone gets mugged or shot, everyone yells 'where the hell were the cops?'
According to most statistics the crime rate has continuously dropped since the late 70's.
So maybe stopping people that may look as if they in the process of committing a crime has been preventative of people in the commission of a crime or even to think twice before doing so.

That is an excellent idea. I hope it doesn't make you a victim one day though. My father was beaten near death in NYC by the police. I was 1. The cops knocked me out of my baby carriage and stepped on my then 3-year-old sister. They were trying to stop the paramedics from taking my dad to the hospital and it the cops even got physical with the paramedics. They attacked my mom too. My dad had to have his spleen removed and they were trying to read him his last rights (which he refused) because he had a 10% chance of living through it. My parents sued. Cops tried intimidating us by staying parked in front of our apartment. We had to move out of NYC away from my family because of it. That's how we got out of poverty. We got enough to buy a house. That's the only good thing that came of it. I and my sister each got a little bit of money too, which we were able to collect when we turned 18.

The only cop I love is my uncle. He's the only good cop I ever met... and I'm biased.

The crime level goes down, sure, out of fear, but what is the true cost that everyone pays? Freedom.

And that's really the only defense you would have in a situation like this. You can't so much as look at them cross-eyed w/out risking getting brought in for "resisting arrest" or "disorderly conduct" - the amount of power they can have over us is astounding.

there's a fine line between freedom people seek and chaos/anarchy

ha, this is nothing. we'll see how people really complain when it does become a police state. try living in london right now. we still enjoy more freedoms than the rest of the world can dream of

Yes, but chaos can stem from squeezing people too tightly in the iron fist as well. Take Iran for example.

In America, I should be able to walk down the street without worrying I'm going to be harassed by police for no reason. I should also be able to rest assured that I will not be beaten by police once they have the upper hand, but we cannot be assured of that.

My father was beaten near death, but he committed no crime. What happened was they were evacuating a park because there were rumors of a race riot. My family just happened to live near the park. My dad was just outside the park and my mother and my sister and I were inside the park. Once my dad saw the commotion he came into the park to be with us, but the cops told him to stop on his way in. He was just a father wanting to protect his family, so he ignored them. Whether or not you think that was morally wrong for him to do (I do not with all of my heart), the punishment for such a "crime" should not be to be beaten almost to death and have your kids (us) trampled in the commotion, and your wife beaten for trying to protect your/her children. That is some sick shit that happened to us. That, and all these "random" fascist police stops are not necessary to avoid total societal meltdown.

[EDIT: Sorry I should proofread before I post]

Yeah I would like to avoid America becoming the textbook definition of a police state. People need to fight against it before it happens.

Watch the watchers.

I have only known a few good cops too, one of them is in Florence, Oregon and I promised him I would speak up about there being some good cops out there. Its just so hard to see them when they are in the minority.

Anarchy is not chaos. What have you been smoking?

Cops in the face of a riot become Yippie Kaya Mutherfuckers.

any chance to be divisive, eh?

actually, this is one case that conservatives should be able to see as a violation of the 4th amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

well, I've known a few good cops, you're letting your experience convert into a generalized bigotry against all officers. that's the same process that makes some whites who've had a bad experience generalize against all people of some ethnicity.

don't perpetrate the wrong you condemn, noxi.

you are right. which is why I'd rather have a whole lot less of this kind of police state shit, and let law-abiding citizens carry firearms and defend themselves.

or Venezuela. I've got family there...the shit that goes on there is unbelievable.

it has reinforced my support for the right to bear arms. and I don't mean "brazos de oso"

typos are allowed once in a while. especially when you're all worked up.

well, he made a mistake, but they made a worse one. You can understand that if theyt think there is a race riot forming, they would want to stop people from the neighborhood joining in. But you'd think they'd also try to help a dad get his family out safely.

how do you know they're "in the minority"? have you done a full sampling of all the police?

jesus, jubal, that's a dumb statement. there are tens of thousands of police out there doing a goddamn tough job and doing it pretty damn well, from my perspective.

I don't agree with this policy, as it seems to me to be a violation fo the constitution, but let's not slander police in general just because you can.

can you show me ONE "anarchy" that was not chaotic?

or are you promoting tribalism now?

No I have not personally done any significant sampling. I am speaking from personal observation over the past 40 years. Police back when I was a kid were a lot nicer, today they mostly are about absolute compliance and obedience, they are quick to use a taser, and they come across as cowboys. I have seen a lot more brutality from police in the past 20 years for just minor shit, not like the protests from the Vietnam era, but for people protesting pesticides or GMOs. In general there are more civilian police review boards and police auditors in small cities across the country, Why? Because its a reaction by people who feel that police are getting away with things or they are not being held accountable as much as they should. You can pretty much tell by the reaction of average people saying that police are being too rough and brutal to draw the conclusion that there are more cops who aren't doing a great job than there are doing a great job.

I don't deny there are really good cops out there who treat people with dignity even though they suspect them of a crime, they don't treat them like pieces of meat, or animals, or savages. They use enough force to without crossing the line into inhumanity. But there seem to far more cops willing to cross the line and into inhumanity and quickly, too. That is why people rail and say that we are living in a police state, because every single day there is a new story about police brutality or profiling or covering for each other. Corruption is rampant and that is why I made generalizations.

When I speak of Anarchy I am speaking about Anarchosyndicalism with highly educated people peacefully coexisting without authority figures. But for such a place to exist there would have to be a swift and severe penalty for those who assume authority or tread on the human rights of others, the people charged with exacting the punishment would have to be empowered by consensus. Yes it is utopia, it can be achieved, but to get there would require massive education of the youth and removal of the authority of the aged and non compliant.

I guess you could call it tribalism.

"looks is if they might be..." doesn't cut legal, constitutional safeguards. you are so close to "preemptive stops', and across 'the end justifies the means' line.

that is absolutely true, and why i have such respect for the u.k. and canadian
manner that the police deal with their citizens. and these are cabinet governments, not so called democracies, (really republics).

well this is an example of how NYC is dealing with it, and since this measure has been put into place the crime rates have dropped in NYC

This is just part of the same system that keeps minorities down. The questions that you should be asking is what is the breakdown of the races of people who are rich? I'd wager it's a high percentage of whites. What is the breakdown of the races of people who are poor? We all know that we will get different results. Crime is committed by the poor, predominantly, out of necessity or frustration. Regardless of what deluded libertarians may think, poor people are not poor because they are lazy. The road out of poverty is much more difficult than most people can imagine. Some black families have been poor ever since they were freed from slavery. This is not only about race, but about class and it is disgusting, as is any attempt at trying to justify it. With unthinking, cheering white faces, we will fast become an oppressed population ruled with an iron fist. People who support this type of police action do not value freedom. They must be victims of the system first to understand I guess, because empathy and love for freedom escapes them.

I don't think you're being fair here, either. Everyone is given an education and there are many grants and funds for minorities to be educated passed HS. It's hard to study and avoid peer pressure to hang out with the fast crowd. But it is available, it just takes diligence.
I have never wanted to or ever committed a crime. I have been a victim of crime. Even if I am angry I still do not want to hurt another person. I value life of others and do value freedom. I disagree with much of the patriot act. I do believe we must have laws and law enforcement or all would be like the looting in Haiti after the quake, a free for all. Someone takes from someone who has earned it... that's not right. Is it?
I believe in small government but there must be law and law enforcement.

I do think I'm being fair. It's harder for the poor to get ahead. It's not just about going to school. Life itself is harder when you are poor. That's fair to say is it not? You have only walked in your own shoes. People have had it harder than you. My grandfather had to work 3 jobs to support his family. He was still poor, not lazy. It's hard to concentrate on your studies when you are worried about whether or not you have enough to eat. It's hard for parents to nurture their children when they are trying to decide whether to have dinner that night... or heat. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's harder. That's fair.

Unfortunately if you grow up in a tough neighborhood and you are constantly the victim of violence, or you're constantly in fear of violence, you will grow up tougher. While it's not impossible to overcome that, it is harder. That is fair for me to say.

If someone has to quit school to get a job instead of working towards college because they need food now and they can't wait 4 years, it makes it harder. That's fair to say.

Someone who has nothing is going to be more likely to want to steal rather than someone born with a silver spoon up their butt. That's fair to say.

Given that under G W Bush, the gap between the rich and the poor grew, there is evidence that there is an effort to keep the poor down. You cannot deny this. Trickle-down economics?! Bullshit!

We need law enforcement to protect and serve us, not oppress us. I am not for eliminating the police force. I am for better screening. Alpha male bully types need not apply. They serve us, yet they have us all living in fear... and you do have something to fear whether you are guilty of a crime or not.

We need law enforcement to not be corrupt. We need to be free and rage against oppression. There are too many police officers who are brutes. They are full of their own power. They are above the law. This should not be tolerated in an enlightened free civilization in the 21st century. Unfortunately we are neither enlightened, nor free. We fell asleep and forgot what kind of freedom America is supposed to stand for. Now we give personhood to corporations and the Republicans actively try to silence the colored electorate by attacking groups like Acorn and making rules like you have to own a house to vote... so that people who lost their houses in the economic crisis effectively lost their right to vote.

I think I'm giving a fair assessment of reality here.

the only disagreement i have here is that our education we're given is a crock and todays high school graduates are some of the dumbest i've ever seen

"We need law enforcement to not be corrupt...We fell asleep and forgot what kind of freedom America is supposed to stand for."

QFT

True.

Show those statistics? The middle class grew under GW. Not since democrats took over congress...the poor are now getting poorer, in fact the middle class is joining the poor now.
BTW: My grandparents, worked several jobs each and took in boarders...I did not come from a rich family. I worked while going to high school and college as did both of my children. My husband's grandparents picked crops for shares and never asked for assistance, he was orphaned at 7 and raised by his grandmother. Both sets of my grandparents grew their own vegetables, made towels out of flour sacks and fixed holes in kids shoes with pieces of linoleum... My mother did go to nursing school and she worked all the time to help to make our lives better. She came from a poor coal mining family and was the first kid to go to school passed high school. It was a hardship but something she always wanted to do and worked hard to get there. My mom and grandmother said a lot of times when my Pap's pay came he owed the minimg company money for rent or food from the company store.

Amen sister.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12699486/paul_krugman_on_the_great_we...

The middle class did not grow under Bush. Here's an article for your perusal.

"Wages have failed to keep up with rising prices. Even in 2005, a year in which the economy grew quite fast, the income of most non-elderly families lagged behind inflation."

"But how is this possible? The economic pie is getting bigger — how can it be true that most Americans are getting smaller slices? The answer, of course, is that a few people are getting much, much bigger slices.Although wages have stagnated since Bush took office, corporate profits have doubled. The gap between the nation's CEOs and average workers is now ten times greater than it was a generation ago. And while Bush's tax cuts shaved only a few hundred dollars off the tax bills of most Americans, they saved the richest one percent more than $44,000 on average. In fact, once all of Bush's tax cuts take effect, it is estimated that those with incomes of more than $200,000 a year — the richest five percent of the population — will pocket almost half of the money. Those who make less than $75,000 a year — eighty percent of America — will receive barely a quarter of the cuts. In the Bush era, economic inequality is on the rise."

I think it's awesome that your family was able to make it. However, here's something for you to ponder. Do you think it's possible for every single poor person to move up to being rich or even middle-class? Would the economy fall apart if nobody was poor anymore? Who would do the very lowly-paid, yet necessary jobs? If everyone who was poor ended up with more money, it would equate to the poverty line going up... they'd still be poor. The cost of good would go up. Given that it is impossible for all, most, or even a significantly large minority to make it out of poverty, I think my point stands. The vast majority of poor people are not poor because they are lazy. They are poor because our capitalist society depends on there being a poor class.

You should remember also that not everyone is given the SAME education. Go to a school in Washington Heights and then go to one on the Upper East Side and tell me these kids get the same quality of education...so from jump street, minorities are disadvantaged. Yes, people can overcome and go on to be "success stories" - but that is the exception, not the rule.

That was pure awesomeness - big up.

"Crime is committed by the poor, predominantly, out of necessity or frustration"
...you forgot to add..."or because it's easier to make money from selling drugs and stealing, and it's a lot more fun, too, and you get respect from your homeys for bein' hard n shit."

let's not pretend that criminals are out there regretting their actions. you know better, you're playing the heartstrings to distract us from the truth. Most criminals ENJOY a life of crime.

Now your ignorance is showing. "Given that under G W Bush, the gap between the rich and the poor grew, there is evidence that there is an effort to keep the poor down."

First, the fact that many rich people got richer does NOT mean that by getting richer they also "kept the poor down". This reveals that you have NO IDEA what it means to be "rich". They don't stuff their damn mattresses with money to hide it from the poor. They invest it into businesses that then hire people--dem PO peoples--so they have a chance to rise up.

But no, see, from the victim mentality perspective you've shown, what you think is "that fucker has a limo and I don't, so he took it from me."

You are using poverty as an excuse for crime. Did your grandpappy rob? steal? kill? sell drgs? or did he work 3 jobs?

I can't stand it when I hear this. Poor people have always lived in this country and have alwys worked, saved and climbed out of poverty. The damn Hmong and other asians and Mexicans do it all the time. But listen to YOU. It's all about excuses how being poor is so hard, waaaa, can't get ahead, waaaa, we're forced into crime, waaaa.

No, maybe you have been indoctrinated with a way of thinking that excuses criminal behavior if you're poor, and you rationalize it by projecting evil onto people who HAVE whatyou don't. Yeah, I'm robbing that whitey fucker but he be having shit I ain't got so he wuz holding down the po'.

And MAYBE that's why even uneducated illegal immigrants from the banana plantations of central america and southeast asia come here and can make a life and be GRATEFUL, they even overcome the damn language barrier, while too many of our African American population spends most of their time skipping classes and not doing their work in school and then complain about being "held down".

I taught those kids and saw a WAY higher percentage of black kids who just wouldn't do their work, and they'd tell me about how they would be picked on if they carried their books home, and they would be called Oreos and all that other shit. I even had two sweet black girls who were GOOD KIDS murdered one day by other black girls who hated them for being "uppity" and trying to get an education. They were killed in the street with butcher knives, stabbed from behind as they ran home!

These weren't cracker whitey fuckers, this is what BLACKS do to BLACKS. Don't give me your fucking bullshit about the rich whitey holding you down. It's a cutlure of ignorance and victimization that keeps holding your own people down.

Don't want to hear it from me?

Go buy Bill Cosby's book, or Juan William's book ENOUGH.

and quit making excuses for crime. damn cry baby

Bill Cosby and Juan Williams can go F each other. You can join in. Have a nice roll around. You did not read or understand the Krugman article.

BTW I'm an upper middle class white dude. I just happen to care about others. Good try though.

PS: Go to hell you dumb conservative jerk.

I agree that in education some of the poorer schools can't pay their teachers enough to work in such an environment....But the chance to do better as a student is still there. I agree psychologically it may be harder but the desire to do better in privileged kids isn't always as good either.

It's not just necessarily that the teachers aren't paid enough, the schools don't have the resources to provide these kids with up-to-date books, technology or facilities. They also get gypped on after-school activities. So there are a lot of factors at play in giving these kids a sub-par education - forget about a comparison to private school.

And you're right, it's not just a matter of providing a better education, a kid has to want to succeed. Unfortunately, in some of these communities, the kids accept the myth created by peer pressure that it's not cool to be smart or to want to learn and that's a problem in and of itself. Other problems include parents distracted by working their butts off or just despair at the situation they're in.

I think people should definitely try to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, but we also need to take into consideration the factors that got people into the situation their in, and a lot of times, it's not merely a "victim's" attitude.

Yea, if you are black and succeed in school while trying to better yourself with what you have black kids call you an Oreo or an Uncle Tom. Plus, the welfare system keeps poor whites and blacks on the dole by discouraging them from doing better. Poor white and black men can't figure out why the moms don't need them in the household anymore... so they get into trouble on the streets or get into drugs.

Paul Krugman, come on you gotta have something better than this guy from Rolling Stone.

ad hominem. If you have some specific criticism of the actual article, that would be more convincing.

and if you read my post you'd see that it was a hypothetical stating "IF" this race x and did y, 50% of the time, then you're more likely to search x for y. justifying searches of certain profiles (i guess i should have said IF louder)

and the statistics of NYPD demographics came straight from the NYPD. and they are racist by the definition that they are classifed by race yes but thats it.

illegally owned firearms are illegaly owned firearms, and has nothing to do with the NRA. it was a hypothetical situation, i can say the same about drugs or something else illegal. i guess for it to be ridiculous enough for current users i should have said they were smuggling snakes in their trousers.

Voted Up and great comment!!

Yes, I didn't quite hear the IF - please say it louder next time.

And yes, you're right, the NRA is very ethical and wouldn't consort with the likes of illegally gun owning Blacks & Latinos...only white bible thumpers who get guns the "legal" way at Walmart are provided support.
Either way, your hypothetical seems off, even if it is exaggerated. Most Blacks and Latinos I know can't afford to buy guns, illegal or not. And if so many of them have guns, maybe the over two-million stops the cops made from 04-09 would have turned up more illegal guns...

Thank you!

butterflies fly.

good stuff dude.

'Most Blacks and Latinos I know can't afford to buy guns, illegal or not.'

You're sick. I cannot believe you said that. You don't know any middle class or well-to-do Hispanic or Black people ? You only hang around them when your slumming ?

Just exactly how are you going to count illegal fire arms? Smartie?

Great point.

licensed to own and carry. pretty simple...

Well for one, I was using a touch of humor in there - sorry it wasn't more obvious. Secondly, you don't have to be "poor" to not be able to afford an illegal gun. Not being able to afford it doesn't have to just be about the money, it's about not affording the risk - the risk of getting caught and tearing your family apart as a result, or not being able to afford the consequences (legal and otherwise) of carrying an illegal weapon.

I'm Latino and I'm not "poor" so there was no racial undertone in my comment, just an observation.

hey fuck face? what does being a fucking hippie have anything to with whats being discussed here. and we'll see how motherfucking angry you get when cops come up to you search you insult you and accuse you of things you never did just because they have the power to fuck that and fuck you and fuck the police

Right on man.........FUCK THE POLICE.

you're an immature idiot. we'll see how you like a country without a police force.

that applies to both of you

Idiot No. A person who has been harassed constantly because of the way I look and the fact that I drive trucks, all the while never having been arrested for any crime in my 43 of life on planet earth...YES

Fuck the police

no punk. you're the one that's acting immature.

Where did you get your stats? You are blowing steam out of your ass.

Voted up!!!