Community | March 13, 2010 | 77 comments

A MOTHER found by the Family Court to be violent, untruthful, lacking moral values and responsible for the psychological and emotional abuse of her children has been given custody of them.

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MotherForTruth
A MOTHER found by the Family Court to be violent, untruthful, lacking moral values and responsible for the psychological and emotional abuse of her children has been given custody of them.
The father, deemed "principled" and with "much to offer his children", has been effectively banned from seeing his daughters.
The case will spark renewed debate about family law and the issue of shared parenting.
The father, who we will name "Bill" because he cannot be identified for legal reasons, is described by a Family Court judge as no threat to his daughters, a successful parent who is "courteous" and "intelligent".
The same judge found the mother, whom we will call "Jasmine" and who abandoned her first daughter at two and spurned the child's subsequent attempts at reconciliation, had displayed "dreadful", "cruel" and "malicious" behaviour.

But the judge still ruled that because of time spent apart, the children had become estranged from their father and it was in their interests that "the children spend no time with the father".
This was at odds with a ruling in February 2008 that Bill should have contact with his daughters.
But in last month's ruling, the judge said: "The necessity to preserve the children's physical, emotional safety and welfare is overwhelming. However unsatisfactory this outcome is for the father, it is the outcome most aligned with the children's best interests.
"In addition, it is the only outcome which will afford the girls the peace they require now while permitting some possibility of a relationship between the father, (the children) and their siblings in the future, however long term that may be."
But the judge added: "It is a sad fact in the family law jurisdiction that a determination which is most consistent with the best interests of the children can appear to reward bad behaviour on the part of one parent and work in apparent injustice for the well-motivated best performing parent."
Bill has not seen his daughters since April and has not spent extended time with them since August 2005.
He says the estrangement was largely a result of false allegations of sexual abuse of the children made against him by his former wife.
The custody ruling in the Family Court last month came after a seven-year battle over access to the girls, now aged nine and 11.
It followed a criminal trial in 2007, when Bill, 55, was cleared of the sexual abuse allegations. The trial judge found them totally false and threw the case out.
The ordeal has cost Bill his home, his job and about $450,000 in lost income and legal costs. He has faced court 70 times to clear his name and try for some form of access to his children.
"It has been a nightmare. All I wanted was to be part of my children's lives - to try to give them a good start in life," Bill said.
"But I am denied that because of the malicious way in which my ex-wife has acted and because of the credence the legal system has given her lies and falsehoods.
"The family law system needs wholesale change. There appears to be no testing of evidence in court and it seems that often lies and fabrications are immediately accepted as fact.
"It's a disgrace and, as far as I know, it doesn't happen in any other legal sphere."
Bill's case follows the case of "Steve" last year, in which the court accepted his good character, but banned him from seeing his daughter for seven years because it was believed the mother would "shut down" emotionally if he were allowed to see her.
In another case last year, a father, "Mick", was jailed for sending a birthday card to his daughter in breach of a court order and was locked up again for taking a walk in a park - near where, unknown to him, his daughter was playing.
Debate over the operation of family law has become heated over the past year with a new campaign seeking to overturn amendments to the Family Law Act brought in by the Howard government that have established the principle of "shared parenting" and effectively given fathers a better chance of having greater access to their children in custody disputes.
Historian and Family Court critic Prof John Hirst questions the underlying principles in family law.
"The Family Court by law has to make the children's interests paramount in divorce cases. Everyone thinks this is wise and proper, but to elevate one principle above all others can produce terrible results," he said.
"To stop mothers being tempted to make accusations of sexual abuse and so keep children to themselves, the law should state that any parent making false accusations of this sort will lose the right to be chief carer of the children. If a mother has so turned the children against the father that they don't want to see him, for a time at least the children should be taken into care.
"Even on the present test of child's best interests, it is hard to see how a child will benefit from being left with such a mother. "

Last Updated: March 14, 2010
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/fury-at-ruling-in-custody-battle/story...
  1. groups:
    Community,   Current Cultural Issues,   Law and Justice,   Gender Equality
  2. tags:
    Gender Child Custody violent woman
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77 comments // A MOTHER found by the Family Court to be violent, untruthful, lacking moral values and responsible for the psychological and emotional abuse of her children has been given custody of them.

  • dariusvons
    • +1
      dariusvons  
    • they'd never let her have those kids back if 'pot head' were the only thing on the list of whats wrong with her... law clearly doesn't give a shit about justice.

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
    • 0
      brotherlelo  
    • dariusvons:

      How about some training or education on how to treat and care for the children before returning the children back to her? There is money for drug and alcohol testing for father that have never been drunk or used drugs. Why not use that money for the mothers since they are going to have the custody anyways.

    • 1 year ago
  • Allfazeman
    • +2
      Allfazeman  
    • curtisreed, MFT, and a few other have hit the nails on the heads. There is a mass of unpopular decisions being made in the courts that put children in harms way with their mothers. I have seen it way to many times.

      Having once been a member of a 12 Step recovery I saw this happen often that unfit mothers were given custody despite the fact the courts knew of this. Many are given way to many chances especially when the father IS WAITING IN THE WINGS and has a good grip on life and how to live it. I was, or am, one of those fathers who stepped up to the plate and was treated OK by the courts when it came to getting custody. And though I wouldn't exactly call it a blessing I was able to be home with my kids because I am at home & disabled. And this disability enabled me to be home and see how first hand how awful my kids mother treated them when I wasn't around. Since she has no self control at all she could no longer hide behind her lies and threatening the kids if they spoke up in the years that I was working and came home to some very strange stories of how the kids behaved. For it wasn't them much at all as it was heir Mother at the helm when I was away. And the more I was home the more I was a referee who honestly had to penalize mommy dearest for her abusive treatment of both our son and daughter. Unfortunately my daughter seemed to get the worst of the deal because she wasn't afraid to speak up. This was because in second grade, I believe it was, that an officer came to school to9 discuss what abuse was and the rest was history. After that when the child was getting hit, kicked, pinned down and slapped, and her hair pulled by her mother she would say back that she would put her mother in jail. That, unfortunately, only escalated the brutal punishment coming from her mother. So once I was home and on the mend, even before the determination of my disability, I not only put a stop to this, but also turned the tables when the mother made false charges against me for the last time while she was living with us.

      So indeed when the man is out bringing in the bacon it is a bit difficult to thoroughly know what is going on at home. And though I listened to my kids when they felt safe to speak their mother never left any marks except for balls of hair in the garbage which I did ask about. And while this was going on a buddy of mine, who did not have custody at the time, has his daughter telling him the her mother is smoking crack, sleeping with several men, and having this little girl hold on to money and dope for her. Meanwhile he is spending every dime to get cu7astody and can't. Why? Because his Ex's parents happen to know the judge and they have money. Isn't that special? So to make a long story of his short, it took 5 times of this woman being caught stoned o0ut of her mind while caring for the child until C7FS took the child away and gave her to the father. And this is basically the same story as is the subject here. For when they were together she would leave the home for days and weeks to smoke her crack so abandoning the child for all that time while the father takes care of the girl alone. And I can tell you about others I know personally over the years that have gone threw the same things. And when these same women end up in abuse shelters it always seems that these facts are well ignored of the mother who is only going there to gain an upper hand.

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • +2
      curtisreed  
    • "The family law system needs wholesale change. There appears to be no testing of evidence in court and it seems that often lies and fabrications are immediately accepted as fact."
      Yep, that sounds about right. I don't know all the facts in the case, perhaps there are facts we weren't presented in the article, but from what it contains, it sure looks as if there is a bias here.

      The battle for so-called "equal rights" has ended upwith imposing second-class citizenship on men. It's a continuation of the old notion that women are helpless, harmless souls who would never do anything to hurt their children, while men are slandered as mean, cruel, abusive, etc and the courts presume to know the truth without examining the evidence.

      As I said, without a complete investigation into all the allegations, we can't be sure but it seems to be in keeping with the kind of crap we're seeing repeatedly come out CPS, and it's an international problem--Australia, Britain, USA--all have the same thing going on.

    • 1 year ago
  • MotherForTruth
  • divotdawg
    • +4
      divotdawg  
    • One thing most people don't realize about adopting children out, the money no longer stops at adoption. The state and federal government pays foster/adopt "parents" until the child reaches his/her 18th birthday. Real parents don't get paid to raise their children so why should some adoptive mother/father get paid to raise OUR children? Why doesn't the government have to use some of that money to help fix problems, like poverty, so that families can stay together. When you take away that blood bond, you also take away the instinct to protect. More children die each day in foster/adopt homes than in their real homes yet some people think foster/adopt is a good thing? Tell that to Hassani Campbell WHEN he's found. Oh yeah, they're looking for a body, not a little boy.

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
    • 0
      brotherlelo  
    • But the judge added: "It is a sad fact in the family law jurisdiction that a determination which is most consistent with the best interests of the children can appear to reward bad behavior on the part of one parent and work in apparent injustice for the well-motivated best performing parent."
      Family law jurisdiction is a fake business which pretends to act in the best inters of children, the only reason they keep me away from my son for two years was to deny me the custody. They need expensive evaluations of many professionals to make their decisions and even when professionals go for facts the judges go for what is best for their business. Family knows best. Family law jurisdiction should be done by families, not idiot ignorant judges.

    • 1 year ago
  • divotdawg
    • +2
      divotdawg  
    • Family court IS flawed. From custody issues to CPS cases of abuse/neglect, it comes down to money and can money be made from using the children. When I was 18 and married my first husband, a total jerk who signed away his rights until his parents starting getting HIS visitation, being married for the rest of my life was a dream. Too many people rush into marriage and babies without thinking of the consequences. Having children with someone is a life-long commitment to each other, married or not. If you can't stand the person, then how are you going to work together to raise your children? Children need both parents and they need them to be adults and act like adults. They're not pawns to be used against each other nor are they miniature adults. They don't think like we are supposed to. They learn what they live. If you want them to grow up to have morals, ethics, and to be good parents themselves, then you'd better be that way with them. I'm sick of all these people fighting over who sees the kids more. When it comes down to it, it's not who gets custody, it's who gets the child support.

    • 1 year ago
  • common_sense_please
    • -2
      common_sense_please  
    • This actually sounds like a case where BOTH parents rights should be terminated and the kids should be placed up for adoption and taken in by a family made up of adults who love and want them instead of adults who are just using them as pawns in a divorce/custody battle.

      That and the real villain here is the idiot judge who is too afraid to actually rule in favor of the children--legal precedent be damned.

    • 1 year ago
  • divotdawg
    • 0
      divotdawg  
    • common_sense_please:

      Only in extreme cases of abuse or neglect should parents lose custody of their children. However, if they can't act like adults then maybe you're right. Hey, that might force some of these parents to "gasp" grow the fuck up.

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
    • 0
      brotherlelo  
    • common_sense_please:

      I disagree here, I think it should go to the parent who can support and take care of them. Why should I take care of somebody else children? Why did they have it in the first place? Let then take care of their own problem.

    • 1 year ago
  • common_sense_please
    • -1
      common_sense_please  
    • brotherlelo:

      I didn't say put the child in foster care or in a "warehouse" the states call a group home -- in which case then yes it would be your tax dollars that were being used to take care of someone else children --just as your tax dollars are being used to pay this idiot judges salary that said the children should stay with their mother and visit with a father who hasn't seen them in several years -- then of course your tax dollars are also used to send police officers out to arrest men who don't pay their child support and pay for social workers to continually keep checking in with this mother to make sure she is caring for her children -- and it will be your tax dollars that pay for child protective to hire a new social worker and not bother to actually change the system when the mother kills or seriously injures her children thanks again to this idiot judges ruling. And at the end of all that your tax dollars will pay for the mother (and boyfriend or father) to sit in jail and for the surviving children to grow up in foster care anyway because their "parents" are now in jail

      What I said that instead of going round and round with this obviously broken and flawed family court system is that children in these situations should be allowed to be adopted while they are still children-- it would be in the best interest of the children to let them be placed up for adoption with a family who was going to step up and support and take care of them -- thus your tax dollars are not involved and you aren't bothered to care for somebody else children. It's a win-win.

      And to address your question of why they had "it" in the first place -- because our society is overly obsessed with the notion of abortion because yeah every child is a wanted child--and no nobody says exactly what you did about why should they support an unwanted child once they go home from picketing the abortion clinic-- and of course abstinence only programs work great and presenting any kind of sex education must automatically mean we are teaching our kids the graphic details of how two homosexual men have sex.

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • +2
      curtisreed  
    • common_sense_please:

      From the evidence in the article, can you defend your statement and explain why the father, was described "by a Family Court judge as no threat to his daughters, a successful parent who is 'courteous' and 'intelligent'", should lose custody, while the mother "abandoned her first daughter at two and spurned the child's subsequent attempts at reconciliation, had displayed 'dreadful', 'cruel' and 'malicious' behaviour", would be given rights?

      On what grounds do you think a successful, courteous and intelligent father lose his custody?

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • +1
      curtisreed  
    • common_sense_please:

      That's yet another totally bogus conclusion, "It's a win-win". How in the HELL is it a "win-win" to take children from their responsible, caring and successful parent to give to God-knows-who?

      You also assume that these children will be adopted, when most adoptions are of younger infants, and most of the older children end up "warehoused" as mentioned before.

      And EVEN if they get adopted, what's to guarantee they will be properly cared for?

      You repeatedly slander MotherforTruth for her "agenda", but if you'd stop to read what she's posted, you would realize that she has found MULTIPLE cases where adopted children were abused, even killed, by their new "parents", who are using the system to make money, not care for children.

      Your suggestion is not just irresponsible, it's INSANE. You are out of your bloody mind.

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
    • 0
      brotherlelo  
    • common_sense_please:

      I agree with Curtisreed. There is not winning solution every time a child is taken from their blood relative. I once called up the CPS because the mother was in a drinking party with my son and their response was that when she got the custody was because she was the good parent and that I was just trying to make trouble for her. Your common sense is one that I would not truth even thou you sound very clever.

    • 1 year ago
  • common_sense_please
    • 0
      common_sense_please  
    • curtisreed:

      WTF?? YOU go out of your way to ALWAYS make personal attacks against me for anything I say and ALWAYS call me an idiot or crazy -- and you slander me on a regular basis--but somehow you think my comments -- which I might add are very rarely in response to ANYTHING you have to say or directed to you personally -- are slanderous or evidence of some type of agenda? Seriously?

      Because ACTUALLY I agree with Mother of Truth for the most part--and I was defending Mother against Uni's comment that Mother stood up for abusive men because I don't think that is an accurate representation of Mother's posts. But it is accurate to say that Mother's posts use strong rhetoric that tends to attack women or at least uses language in the titles of the post and in the opinion/commentary section that labels them as liars or deviants or immoral or responsible for putting some innocent man in jail -- and if you actually bothered to read my responses to Mother --YOU would know that for the most part I tend to agree with her that sometimes women are all of those things -- its just that in my opinion, lately Mother's posts have all started sounding the same and raising the same issues--so now it has gotten past the wow that's an interesting way to look at things and become wow Mother doesn't appear to like women very much.

      Notice that I did not feel the need to call Mother insane or crazy or go out of my way to mention that the thought of agreeing with him or her made me gag or resort to using any other theatrical and personal attacks on Mother to make myself look important...because I tend to actually enjoy a spirited on topic discussion and seeing a variety of opinions be posted. My problem is now I have to censure myself or be fearful that I will be attacked or slandered by some person I don't know (or really want to know) who thinks likes to throw their weight around and act like a Jr. high school bully.

      Also as a side note: I have read Mother's posts and I don't remember ANY of them EVER being about "adopted children(who) were abused, even killed, by their new "parents", who are using the system to make money, not care for children."

      So AGAIN I suggest it is YOU who needs to chill out and back up and look at YOUR agenda and rather irrational need to personally attack me (and any other posters YOU disagree with) for trying to have a discussion and present varying viewpoints. That and unless I missed it most of the other posters don't have a problem with telling me if my comments directed toward them offended them so it's not your job--nor is it relevant-- for you to tell me off in their defense.

    • 1 year ago
  • common_sense_please
    • 0
      common_sense_please  
    • brotherlelo:

      I don't think adoption is the solution to EVERY child protective situation...but I do think that sometimes it would be a better choice than allowing children to continue to be used as pawns by the family court system and/or it is a better choice than taking them out of their home because it was considered too abusive for them and then throwing them into the mess that is the current foster care system which can be equally as chaotic and abusive.

      Also for the most part by the time a family gets through all the bureaucracy and red tape and to actually adopt the child -- it it because they wanted the child and were willing to fight for them to become a part of their family. And its generally (so the stereotype goes anyway) the biological parents or the foster families or those who run "group homes" that are only in it for the money and the extended welfare credits or whatever.

    • 1 year ago
  • jahbini
    • +2
      jahbini  
    • common_sense_please:

      Greetings!

      I sense that you feel you are not being treated fairly with your presentation of ideas. Sorry about that.

      I really agree that Mom's posts are NOT fair and balanced. Far from it, they are cherry-picked to shine a light on some nasty abuses. But that's her point (if, in fact mom IS a woman: Gender on the internet is simply a convenient aspect of our on-line personas)

      She is not slamming women in general (at least I don't get that vibe) but her venom is directed at specific individuals that are the focus of these stories.

      I know really great women! But those women are NOT going to be the ones (like a very specific woman I know) who would want to see me behind bars for any cooked-up reason. Years ago, that specific woman, who will remain nameless, actually once called my niece and asked for legal advice to do exactly that.

      So do these postings resonate with me? YOU BET. But do I hate women? Never. But I do know that I'm not rich enough to BEGIN to have legal protection if that specific woman thought she could bend the court system to her confabulated views. (For example, she claims that her hands glow in the dark)

      Some of these stories that Mom posts give me the willies! I would love to be able to trust the court system, but alas, I feel like a target.

      So, thanks for your views, thanks for your rational thought, and don't think for a minute that I disrespect any poster for having an opinion.

      RIP Katanajon

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
    • 0
      brotherlelo  
    • common_sense_please:

      I can not enhance the answer of Mr. Jahbini or Mr. Curtisreed but I agree with them both. Children are a gift for us and they should be treated as such. We are frustrated and angered by the court system and do not really know to whom direct that anger and frustration. This forum let us dissipate some of that energy and is better here with words than with unthinkable action in other places. I personally thank MFT for the reason that her selected posts let us know that our cases are not the only one and that make us feel us a lot better because we do not feel so alienated. I read the Mr. Allfazeman story and it makes us feel better because it give us hope. Do not take it as personal attack I would say interchange of ideas which make us more conscious on how we treat each others, Sometime, I am unable to express my ideas or even comment for insufficient vocabulary. Thank to Mr. Curtisreed for answering it better than I can. MFT is bringing us real emotions, experiences of our lives and my respect and admiration is for her.

    • 1 year ago
  • common_sense_please
    • +1
      common_sense_please  
    • brotherlelo:

      Actually I agree children are a gift and should be treated well. But unfortunately the foster care system and the child protective/family court system in this country is in a bigger shambles than the adult justice system.

      But that aside your comment made me think. I believe the problem was we all got side tracked over a few phrases in each others comments and missed the bigger issue.

      I just think it is rather illogical to argue that anyone who disagrees with Mother's tendency to focus in on a narrow gender specific interpretations of the law or very specific cases where the woman is the bad or evil person and presented as the cause of all the man's legal woes (because logic dictates it was a failing on the part of the police to investigate the story they were being told, the defense to ask questions, the prosecutor to go forward even in the face of little or no physical evidence, and the judge being an idiot and protecting his own job rather than ruling in favor of justice--that caused the man's legal woes)--is suddenly a complete imbecile (or worse--a feminist) who doesn't understand the concept being presented.

    • 1 year ago
  • jahbini
    • +1
      jahbini  
    • common_sense_please:

      Yes, that is my experience. That the courts are not fair when it comes to interpreting the (not really fair) law in this regard.

      So, I find Mom's postings to be valid.

      It's best to avoid the courts or agencies if you can. They are real steam-rollers with agendas that are as quirky as you can imagine.

      Yes, there are stories where the man is the culprit, by fact and intent, really and truly. But those are simply dog-bites-man stories. The system "kind of works" for that purpose.

      It's the man-bites-dog stories that illuminate the problem. In other words, we need to FOCUS on the injustice in the system to get it working better.

      The social forces that help battered women are doing a pretty good job. But there is nothing to help when the abuse is crafted by the lady of the house.

    • 1 year ago
  • veronaaa
  • common_sense_please
  • Almibry
    • -1
      Almibry  
    • Another thing that should be taken into consideration is who starts off with the kids because "possession is 9/10ths of the law". Most of the separated couples I know are pretty consistent when it comes to who is actually taking care of the kids 7 days a week and that would be the mother. If I were a single mom, I'd be pretty bitter about the father just busting in, telling me he's more capable and I would resent the father even if he was a good one. If I'm going to go through all the physical trauma of carrying a child to term, force it out of my vagina, talk the doctors into sewing me up into a purse down there so I can take advantage of all that stretching, feed and clothe them for the next 18 years, I'm not going to be very charitable when some man comes along and says I'm not up to the job. But I wouldn't lie in court. I'd probably just shoot him.
      I'm thinking I really shouldn't have kids.

    • 1 year ago
  • treewolf39
    • 0
      treewolf39  
    • Almibry:

      Please don't have children until you see men in a little better light. The courts set up the time allocations upon separation. Being that men WERE the customary bread winners they were seen as unable to be an adequate parent five days a week. Children really need both parents. Abusive parenting should never be tolerated. All separations should start at fifty/fifty with each parent being 100% responsible.

    • 1 year ago
  • Monkey_Films
  • Almibry
    • 0
      Almibry  
    • treewolf39:

      Au contraire. It's not that I have a problem with men, it's just that if I'm going to go through all that trouble, carrying a parasite (taking my energy/food and causing me all sorts of physical discomfort, I think it could be called a parasite) for nine months, if I'm going to create a whole new being in my uterus and go through all the afore-mentioned trauma of birthing the little bastard, I'm not going to give it up just because you had an orgasm!
      Vaginal issues aside, only an idiot wouldn't fight tooth and nail for their kids, and I, personally, would resent sharing, but I would try my best to hide the fact from my (imaginary) children, especially if the dad was a good one and I couldn't kill him.

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
  • treewolf39
    • +1
      treewolf39  
    • Almibry:

      I would point out that some women welcome pregnancy. When my EX was two or three months pregnant she got angry with me and threatened abortion. We had planned a child together. This pregnancy was no accident. Her statement forever changed me and ruined any chance of a future together. My point is that I already loved my unborn child and had arranged my life to support and protect both mother and child.

    • 1 year ago
  • treewolf39
    • 0
      treewolf39  
    • brotherlelo:

      Most standard jobs are five days a week maybe six. Making money is not parenting. For my child I make sure she has my time three days a week. This cuts into my income but life is short. I do not pay support. My child's mother works when I have the kid.

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
    • -1
      Almibry  
    • treewolf39:

      I do not want a kid. I do not want to be pregnant. I'd be a horrible mother, expecting my kids to respond to the same training techniques I use on dogs, and it sounds like your baby's mama is a real cunt. That's low, threatening to have an abortion.

    • 1 year ago
  • treewolf39
    • +1
      treewolf39  
    • Almibry:

      Dogs and kids are a lot alike. I call my daughters mom my "Dark Buddha". Sometimes our greatest teachers are the people we can't stand. She taught me that you can't judge a book by its cover.

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • 0
      curtisreed  
    • Almibry:

      "possession is 9/10ths of the law" does not or should not apply to children. That may be fine regarding a television set or a car, but NOT a child.

      "Most of the separated couples I know are pretty consistent when it comes to who is actually taking care of the kids 7 days a week and that would be the mother."
      First, "most" does not equal "all". Secondly, I've known MANY fathers who wanted equal custody and got it, and quite a few who wanted it and were NOT giving it for reasons that were based upon gender bias and NOT any other qualifications.

      And there are cases where the father has valid reasons for not being ABLE--not willing, but not ABLE--to have the kids 7 days per week, often career related (for example, they are salemen and travel too much), so they are willing to give more custody to the mother out of a pramatic realization that Mom's job as a teacher affords her more time with the kids than his job does, but his income disparity allows him to provide more financially.

      This does NOT mean, however, that he is unable or unwilling to be an emotionally attached father who plays an important role in their upbringing.

      But this case is very different, from what we can gather. Here you have a woman who is emotionally abusive, cruel and is just a regular BITCH on wheels, while the father is devoting a great deal of time and resources to get care for the kids--something that should indicate that he really loves them and wants to care for them. PLUS his good character has been noted and contrasted to her poor character.

      Like many women, you appear to be juding every case based upon your knowledge of YOUR character (which may be excellent) and your second-hand knowledge of a FEW other cases, and so you have immediately sided with the woman because you both share a few anatomical traits and therefore you ASSUME that she is like you.

      Let me remind you of the cases of women who have killed their own children out of neglect and spite, so that you consider the possibility that not all women are kind, sweet and loving parents.

      Therefore, neither you nor the judge should jump to the conclusion that the parent with the breasts and vagina is automatically the better parent.

      If you can't grasp that, then perhaps as a society we should just go back to accept many other presumptions, such as the one with the penis will make a better soldier, lawyer, doctor, scientist, mathematician, politician, police officer, etc.

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • 0
      curtisreed  
    • Almibry:

      Now you have totally revealed the depth of liberal indoctrination to which you have been subjected and you have accepted without thought.
      "if I'm going to go through all that trouble, carrying a parasite (taking my energy/food and causing me all sorts of physical discomfort, I think it could be called a parasite) for nine months, if I'm going to create a whole new being in my uterus and go through all the afore-mentioned trauma of birthing the little bastard"

      To call a child a "parasite" (not to mention "bastard") is DISPICABLE. Absolutely disgusting. It reveals a contempt for human life, and a disparagement of the important role women play--to consider a woman as a kind of "victim" or "host" to a parasitic infection is about as distorted and perverted an opinion as I can possibly imagine.

      Let me remind you that in MOST cases, while the woman takes an extended leave from her career--if she has one--it is the father's role to support the family. Your diatribe suggests that you see NO value in that support, perhaps you think of the man as a kind of indentured servant or your own personal slave.

      You further reveal your deep-seated bigotry and hatred in your conclusion:
      "I would try my best to hide the fact from my (imaginary) children, especially if the dad was a good one and I couldn't kill him." If the dad was a good one and you couldn't "kill him"?!

      You have a LOT of growing up to do, little girl.

    • 1 year ago
  • brotherlelo
  • jahbini
    • +1
      jahbini  
    • Almibry:

      Yes, after reading through your post, and "translating" some wording to reach my age-addled brain, I agree.

      Divorce and separation and sharing, or not sharing of the children sux. Big time. It sux for one, and possibly all. It sux for mom or dad, the grandparents, the friends, and the children.

      Yeah, life sux -- But I sure aint' giving up on it yet!

      RIP Katanajon

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
    • +1
      Almibry  
    • curtisreed:

      I was hoping that by putting "possession is 9/10ths of the law" in quotation marks you would see it's a saying, not an actual law and regardless of how you feel about it, it is likely that whoever is already looking after the children will be given preference, but hey, I'm not a lawyer, are you? And just to be honest, ALL of the separated couples I know have the mother taking care of the children, I was being generous when I said most because I've heard of fathers who care and I knew if I said all, it would be argued, but you've got your definitions right: most and all do not mean the same thing. Congratulations. Go ahead and pat those daddies you know of on the back. A lot of the single mothers I know would love to share the custody of their children with the fathers but the majority (I'd guess 45%) of the fathers are MIA, the rest are total dicks and the family of the mothers won't let them near for reasons that I frankly don't need to tell you. Only 2 fathers I know of have expressed any interest in seeing/sharing custody of their kids, but neither one pays child support, one has no job, the other is in jail. Like many men, you assumed I was automatically siding with the woman when you would have seen, had you been paying attention, I was only talking about my own desire to raise my kids myself, regardless of who the father is. Unless I was married to him, I wouldn't want them to spend time over at his house where they could be exposed to anything. I said I would hide my resentment for the babies daddy from my (non-existent) children, and I figured you would know I really don't feel like killing people. I mean, c'mon. If I liked someone enough to let him put it in me, it's going to take something pretty dramatic to make me want to kill him. As for the possibility of me considering the fact that not all women would be kind and loving parents, did you miss the part where I said I would be a horrible mother? Dummy?
      And you have the nerve to call me bigoted then say "If you can't grasp that, then perhaps as a society we should just go back to accept many other presumptions, such as the one with the penis will make a better soldier, lawyer, doctor, scientist, mathematician, politician, police officer, etc....Let me remind you that in MOST cases, while the woman takes an extended leave from her career--IF SHE HAS ONE (emphasis mine)--it is the father's role to support the family. Your diatribe suggests that you see NO value in that support, perhaps you think of the man as a kind of indentured servant or your own personal slave." All I have to say about that is you're an ass. I'm glad I'm not married to you because you're damn straight I'd expect my partner to be a partner in every sense of the word, and that includes doing his share of the housework. I take it you don't have a vagina, because if you ever really thought about it, you would see that my description of a parasite is not far off. Actually, it's spot on, here's the definition of parasite:

      par·a·site
         /ˈpærəˌsaɪt/ Show Spelled[par-uh-sahyt] -noun
      2.a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.

      That's OK that you didn't know though, it's a much more complicated word than most/all (parasite has 3 syllables, not your fault).
      And have you ever considered that fact that the species as a whole would be much better off without men? There is no solid evidence pointing to any major difference in brain function between genders aside from the fact that women are less violent, and mature faster, so we'll be fine with female doctors, lawyers, scientists, mathematicians, politicians, and police officers. We probably won't need soldiers, I mean, can you honestly imagine an army of female soldiers raping and pillaging entire villages outside of your wildest dreams? We wouldn't even need you for reproduction considering the fact that we already have your sperm. We could probably keep future generations of men for breeding purposes, but keep them strictly separated from society. Do you really, honestly think guys would have a problem with that, assuming we gave them video games and hot pockets? Hell, the timing would come out just about perfect, female reach sexual maturity at 35, males at 18, so I have just enough time to get started on my project and raise the first group of re-programmed males for my enjoyment when I reach my sexual peak.

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
  • Almibry
  • artemis6
  • unimatrix0
    • -3
      unimatrix0  
    • artemis6:

      yes, I agree.

      motherfortruth has a hatred for mothers and a passion for defending abusive men - if you look at her/his posts there is a clear and rather warped bias

    • 1 year ago
  • artemis6
    • 0
      artemis6  
    • unimatrix0:

      Agreed . There is rarely a pretense of getting all the story ( both sides ) . Still these stories are a repository for those with a bone to pick at some female who they resent in some way . Anger like that hates to be questioned and wants all to AGREE with them , that this world view is truly so . Kinda like religion . I am amazed there isn't a ' lets gawk at the crazy , evil women ' group , as the followers seem to be growing .

    • 1 year ago
  • divotdawg
    • +3
      divotdawg  
    • unimatrix0:

      Do you have to find fault with everyone? You are constantly attacking other commenters and NOT their comments. If you are allowed to post YOUR comments, then so are we. Don't like what we have to say? Don't fucking read it but stop your bitching about us. It's getting old and boring. I can always count on you to find fault with somebody.

    • 1 year ago
  • jahbini
    • +5
      jahbini  
    • unimatrix0:

      I agree that mom has a flag to wave. And very consistent. All crusaders do that.

      However, I seem to have missed that part where she 'defends abusive men' -- I can not remember a posting mom has put up that has an 'abusive man' in it at all.

      I'm sure I may have missed one or two, but remind me again, Uni, where are those abusive men that mom is covering up? Are "we," assuming that the lack of evidence for these men as abusers shows a conspiracy on mom's part?

    • 1 year ago
  • divotdawg
    • +2
      divotdawg  
    • jahbini:

      Motheroftruth is not covering up for abusive men. That's ludicrous and flawed. What she's pointing out...and I agree with...is our society is very sex-oriented as far as DV is concerned. Women are the victims even if they went after the man with a knife first. A man is simply not allowed under our system of justice to protect himself from a woman. If he does, even if she outweighs him, he's bigger/stronger and should have walked away. Women back men into corners all the time. Nobody has the right to physically abuse another person and get away with it in court just by virtue of their sex. When is the last time you heard of a woman going away for hitting a man? If she IS convicted, she might get community service and probation but that's about it. A man gets jail time. Where is the fairness in that? Abuse is wrong no matter who the abuser is or what sex they are. But to say someone covers or advocates a man abusing a woman is way off base here. I've been abused by a man, both physically and emotionally. I got out of the situation but others aren't so lucky. There has to be better protection for anyone who is physically assaulted. It's as simple as that. Sex should not even be an issue. Justice is supposed to be blind.

    • 1 year ago
  • common_sense_please
    • 0
      common_sense_please  
    • unimatrix0:

      I hate to split hairs :P because I agree Mother does definitely have serious anger/hatred issues with regard to women. -- but I don't agree that he/she defends abusive men -- I tend to think heart of the issue is more along the lines of what jahbini posted in that Mother does strive to make a consistent point and it has become a bit of a crusade with him/her -- therefore in his/her desire to come out so strongly against women he/she tends to pick articles that make the men either come across as perfect and blameless individuals who did absolutely nothing wrong or as wusses or imbeciles who can't or won't stand up for themselves in court or even as neutral bystanders in the story -- and what I find really frustrating is that because of Mother's strong feelings the true message he/she is trying to get across -- that the justice system is flawed and that the actual criminals are the lawyers and judges who follow the money (or flat out refuse to do their jobs) rather than showing compassion for or actually advocating for the victims (regardless of gender) is lost in the rhetoric.

    • 1 year ago
  • artemis6
    • 0
      artemis6  
    • jahbini:

      Perhaps 'defends' or 'glosses over' potential abusiveness and or responsibility for being in that situation . I recall a post about a 13 year old British girl who no longer wished to see her mom , because her dad had a pony , an ATV ect .. while she and her mom , who had not been given support , lived in relative poverty . Parental alienation syndrome ? I think Mother posted that one . Not sure though . I will try to find it .

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • 0
      curtisreed  
    • unimatrix0:

      what an ignoramus.

      Mother for Truth does NOT have a hatred for mothers, that's just STUPID. MfT DOES have an agenda though, and there's nothing wrong with that.

      Her agenda has been VERY consistent in her "series" of articles; sharing stories that highlight the common assumption that women should always be given the "benefit of the doubt", that they are weak, harmless, loving souls who are innately good parents, and by contrast, the assumption that men should always and automatically be assumed to be mean, abusive, assholes who are innately bad parents.

      She has consistently found articles that show that there are women who are abusive, cruel, neglectful, even vindictive, cruel and at times even murderous.

      And yet, as we see here, even when a court recognizes that the father is a good person, responsible, successful, and caring, and when the woman is cruel, vindictive, and abusive, the court will all too often tend to give the children to that dispicable woman simply because she has breasts and a vagina!

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • +2
      curtisreed  
    • common_sense_please:

      I challenge you to find ANY evidence in the comments made by MfT that implies there is any HATRED toward women. I've followed her posts almost religiously becuase they are interesting, and I have YET to see one hatefilled comment--a sharp contrast with those by your pal unimatrix.

      I believe, to the contrary, that MfT is the MOST consistent feminist on this board. She seems to be a feminist along the lines of Camille Paglia, someone who speaks the truth even when it flies in the face of current "feminist" dogma.

      Why? Because the assumption that women are automatically better moms, that men should be assumed to be the aggressor and the woman the victim, is a legacy of misogynistic beliefs that women are less intelligent, the unwilling victims of a weak anatomy and subject to the oppressive shackles of hormones and reproductive instincts.

      The presumption that even a woman who attacks her mate or her children and inflicts harm on them could ONLY have done so because she was a VICTIM first is nothing more than a continuation of those ancient stereotypes.

      "A woman would not lie about rape." How many times in college did I hear that from the feminists who automatically responded to rape allegations against ANY man by immediately believing the woman's testimony.

      We've seen how false that truly is.

      "A woman would never harm her own children." Again, sheer bullshit. Most won't, but some are quite capable of disgusting and dispicable abuse, even murder. Whether that means driving a car into a pond to drown her children, or drowning them in a bathtub, or aborting her baby out of anger at her husband, we've seen that women--just like men--are capable of terrible and evil crimes.

      And likewise, the inverse is true: there are MANY men who are loving and devoted fathers who are presumed by sexist ideologues to be guilty not because of anything they've done, but simply by virtue of their bearing balls and a dick.

      If you can't understand that, then it is YOU who has issues, and not MfT

    • 1 year ago
  • jahbini
  • jahbini
  • curtisreed
  • Allfazeman
    • +3
      Allfazeman  
    • What this all boils down to is who gets to the courthouse first an files the papers.

      The principle of Shared Parenting being the law of the land even mostly has the mother with primary custody even when she is unfit. I know. It almost happened to me. If it weren't for the fact that she went about filing false charges once to often it would have turned out different possibly. But an aware investigator from Child & Family Services made the call and told me to file for custody immediately. So I did. Now my biggest problem id\s getting child support from a mother who never sees her kids. But that just changed recently after a 6 & 3/4 year fight in the courts.

      The idea that mothers usually get custody is slowing going away. Yet I know of several other fathers who went threw a good bit of turmoil to get custody of their kids even when it was previously known that the mothers were entirely unfit to begin with. In several of these cases it took major upsets and terrible treatment of the children for this to be recognized when it should have never taken place that the mother had these children for any amount of time. At most they should have only had like my children s mother has now. Supervised visitation. And that she refuses to do because it is to inconvenient for her. All the while she was easily weeded out as a bad mother like the others except I got to the courthouse first and had a little bit of money at the time while some of my buddies didn't have the cash and the woman's parents came in to help.

      There has to be a "pre-trial" investigation done before even Shared Parenting is considered in more than half the cases in this country so that kids don't get stuck with the abusive parent at all. In many cases it is usually the mother it is sad to say.

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
  • lionessgrrl
  • nursediesel
    • +2
      nursediesel  
    • The mother should have been punished for falsely accusing the ex of sexually abusing his girls. That should go against her record. I figured that's what the mom had done to get custody and keep the dad away but I didn't want to be prejudice and jump to conclusions!

    • 1 year ago
  • divotdawg
    • 0
      divotdawg  
    • Anyone who falsely accuses another person of sexual abuse against a child needs to go to jail for a very long time. That's a horrific thing to do to another human being. However, can you imagine what it does to the children who are forced to testify and lie about someone they love and trust? At some point, don't they start believing the lie because memory is a funny thing. If you're told repeatedly something happened and regardless of whether it did or not, you cannot distinguish between what you remember and what you were told happened, especially in younger children. Adults know better but children's brains are developing and changing all the time. So you're not just doing this to the other person, you're damaging your children.

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
    • 0
      Almibry  
    • divotdawg:

      You make a good point. As for your statement "Anyone who falsely accuses another person of sexual abuse against a child needs to go to jail for a very long time" I don't think the kids should be held accountable or sent to jail, because they're kids and there are already penalties for them, but there should be some punishment for the parents who convince their kids to falsely accuse another parent so kids who do decide to come forward with true stories of abuse aren't treated like liars.

    • 1 year ago
  • divotdawg
    • 0
      divotdawg  
    • Almibry:

      I meant the adults should go to jail, not the children. They do what they're told. My only fear with this is that then mothers and fathers would be afraid to come forward for fear if the offending parent was found innocent that they'd be charged with filing a false allegation. There has to be some safe-guards in place here. Those who truly believe that another adult is abusing their children should be able to come forward without fear. I'm just really tired of people being falsely accused of abuse and neglect of any type.

    • 1 year ago
  • curtisreed
    • +1
      curtisreed  
    • Almibry:

      "I don't think the kids should be held accountable or sent to jail, because they're kids and there are already penalties for them"

      So let's say a 16 year old girl is a hateful, spiteful little bitch who wants her daddy to buy her a lexus. He says NO, he can't afford it, she's not doing well in school or has other problems such as a drug addiction, whatever the reason.

      And so SHE decides to punish him with a vindictive accusation of sexual abuse.

      She "should not be held accountable"? Seriously? She KNEW she could get her father sent to jail and yet made false accusations in a power grab, but there shouldn't be any consequences for that?

      What about the girl who murdered her mother's boyfriend with a knife--another story posted by MfT the other day--that story yet again PROVES the point, that women and even young women/girls are quite capable of committing evil acts and we should look at the facts and apply the law evenly. If it was a teenage son who killed his father's girlfriend, how much "pity" would the courts take on him? NONE.

      But if a murdering teen girl kills a woman, then all of a sudden there is compassionate outcry "she must have been a victim".

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
    • 0
      Almibry  
    • curtisreed:

      It's interesting how you can pick and choose which part of my sentence you want to focus on, I said there were already repercussions for them, maybe I should have kept it simple for you and said "I don't think they should go to jail". You seem to consistently have a problem understanding simple things. It's just amazing that you would quote the whole sentence and miss half of it still. You silly boy. Pay attention.

    • 1 year ago
  • 02
  • treewolf39
    • +2
      treewolf39  
    • The laws need to be changed. As a father who has fought in court against lies, I know the feeling of helplessness when your evidence is ignored but hearsay from a women goes unquestioned.

    • 1 year ago
  • Monkey_Films
    • +3
      Monkey_Films  
    • treewolf39:

      in my case, I had evidence that police were involved in a murder. I had already been under surveillance for my ongoing investigation of escorts connection to local governments and police since 1995. The murder was that of an escort agency owner and I recorded her as she named names. The murder was in Dec. 1999 and from that point on I have been falsely arrested, beat in jail and on the street, shot at and had many attempts to set me up. I have had my phones tapped and have been under constant surveillance, especially during 2000 and 2001.

      During that time, a summons had been issued, in 1997 for family court to see if I was the father of a child. Several summons have been marked undeliverable. Some on days when I was already in their jail. Some on days when they arrested me. Sometimes a day before, sometimes the day after I was put in jail. Every time over the years they say they cannot find me. ?????????? Eventually, 12 years later, they come and serve me and they want to cut me a deal of 5 years back pay and other expenses. The total immediately would put me at felony arrears.
      In this video my attorney had told me prior to going in to court that I could enter evidence that proved they knew where I was. The reaction of the bailiff, the judge and my own attorney to my getting evidence against the city added to the case is laughable if it wasn't my case.

      This is flat-out corruption. The mother is even on tape claiming that she knew where I was but it was convenient for her and her man to 'NOT' help them find me. (Willful Blindness) Of course they knew how to find me. This was saved for 12 years hoping I'd have no records and they'd get a slam dunk against me.

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
  • Monkey_Films
    • 0
      Monkey_Films  
    • Almibry:

      No, actually, I am pairing my City Council run with a 30 million dollar lawsuit against the city, county attorney, prosecutor, and the officers. Additionally, officers from 2 neighboring counties 'helped' out their buddies so we are going to file against them too. Doing both at the same time will ensure plenty of free media attention for both issues.

      The campaign gives me tons of opportunities to talk about the murder and ensuing harassment while keeping me out in the 'public' for my safety. During the beginning of the child support case I gave depositions of all branches of the local government and police and got them, for their own safety, to say that they no longer have any files on me at all anywhere. Of course they do but didn't want certain evidence to hurt the CPS case. However, now that they claim that, they will not be able to defend themselves in my civil action, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO FILES ON ME! LMAO! So they have hung themselves.

      I have planned this whole thing for seven years while defending any new attempts they made at setups. I went undercover as a photographer for local government after completely cutting off my long hair. I bought video, audio and other high tech equipment. I have undercover recordings of cops thinking that they have me under surveillance. lmao. I have recordings of attorneys, judges, cops and more while I played the 'nobody' photographer. I even dressed in cheap shoes and suits that I got from Goodwill to complete the image of the harmless 'hired help'. I dropped my last name and went by Christopher Alan, my first and middle name. I was even able to convince the 'genius' ladies in records to let me come back and copy my files so I wouldn't have to verify each one individually to them. Lots of files. Well, let's just say there was muuuuuch in there that was for CORRUPT EYES ONLY. Throughout this I have always had somebody accompany me everywhere I go with a small audio recorder and a video camera at the ready. This has come in very handy. They have even broken into my office and tried to destroy my tapes. Second and third copies were always made and stored at two other locations. LMAO!

      I know! You're impressed! I'm pretty proud of my work against them and now it is coming to a climax. I'll be exhausted while they'll be left, like a wife with a 4 minute man, without, incomplete, denied and all wet.

      This is the origins of my tendency towards activism.

    • 1 year ago
  • Almibry
  • treewolf39
  • Almibry
  • Monkey_Films
  • Monkey_Films
  • divotdawg
  • jahbini
  • 2hellnwait
    • +1
      2hellnwait  
    • Although our courts are for the purpose of justice, it is all to commonly they now are the courts of subjective moral relativism, i.e. - Just-is.

    • 1 year ago
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