The New ‘Forgotten’ War: Iraq Occupation Falls Into Media Shadows

The brainwashed are those who believe the cockamamie story that Afghanistan and Iraq had something to do with 9/11, and who believe the zaniest of all conspiracy theories which is the official version.

The brainwashed are all those who still believe the cockamamie story that Afghanistan and Iraq had to do with the 9/11 attacks, and who believe the zaniest of all conspiracy theories - namely the official one.

Definitely agreed. New information has come out that I will post later.

Let's see, the French, the Russians and I believe the British have not been able to effect any real changes by force in Afghanistan so what makes you think it will happen now??? Killing people with autonomous drones is the real cowardly act! It's a RELIGIOUS WAR and it's all WHACKED!!!!!!!!!!! You people are completely out of your minds for believing in any religion period!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck with that.....Watch the people die...........Good news fodder........

S.

Actually, I was 100% correct and as for research, I happen to be a Middle-East expert with direct ties to the military. Dumbass. Afghanistan is absolutely 100% no along with Iraq. Nobody except the Israeli intelligence and the CIA did 9/11 with the help of Washington insiders. Additionally, Saudi Arabia was involved. So, explain to me, in detail, why we went to Afghanistan if 9/11 was committed by the U.S. and it's allies. This is now a proven fact with information released yesterday. I will be putting up a post on that tonight. You would do well to read it.

Dude! Get a clue! They've been chasing ghosts over there for years! Stick your head back up your butt and go kill whatever because that's all your kind knows. Why waste time on due process, just murder them all!!!! I bet you believe in god too..............

What a moron!!!!!!!!!!

S.

unfortunately it's almost impossible to break into their circles as well , dang richers

I personally don't think it was our place to go in and rescue them with bombs. Call me crazy, but if George W. cared about their well being, he wouldn't have used bombs, long after Saddam was gone.

Didn't American oil companies sign Iraqi oil contracts? Yes! How convenient. George W. was an oil man, before he became a humanitarian, with the help of 'Shock and Awe'.

*Genocidal madman our government support*

Courage, all of your points of inhumanity are quite valid and horrific, having said that, if Bush would have gone in there for that reason with the world behind him then you would have an accurate argument. The problem is that he went in there for personal reasons and it had nothing to do with the Iraqi's and their plights. Bush only echoed all of that as nice sounding pillow talk after everything went to shit.

You use the term "Cowards" rather lightly and assumptively. I haven't seen anyone in a position of condoning or heard anyone on this post state their approval or what Saddam was doing. Given the proper format and positioning, this whole Iraq thing could have been done with accurate success and minor casualties rather than of catastrophic proportions. I don't think anyone here would object to fighting the Nazis either since in that war we were actually fighting the Nazis rather than just bombing civilians hoping to get a terrorist here and there.

I don't think anyone here has or had a problem with getting rid of Saddam, I for one was all for it. The real issue here is how our government has left this country, which was in bad shap to begin with in ruines and is doing almost nothing to help them rebuild

Your crazy if you think we havnt rebuilt everything we destroyed.

Awful as it was, Iraqis were far better off under Saddam Hussein's régime than they are today.

So sad but true.............

Why not try to figure out the reasons why these situations exist and change the environment instead of all these pissing contests...I not a coward but I won't murder people for ideological reasons either.........

S.

you're one of the few people i've seen post that besides me, and believe it to be true at that.

This is actually true at least for the U.S. Saddam was secular, tyrant who the fundamental Islamic group hated and he did an amazing job of keeping them suppressed. Also he was no friend to Iran. Yes, he was a monster and guilty of every crime against humanity there is but since when has that bother the U.S when it comes to our "friends"

Well I gotta admit, that's my biggest disappointment with President Obama. He is unwilling to hold the Bush administration accountable. He is willing to 'move along' with no accountability. People like you should shut up. It ain't over. People could still be held accountable. If he would promote 'whistle blowers', he could gain all the evidence he would need to convict them. He may fix it yet? 'Whistle blowers' would be all he needs to really fix it. I'm sure ordinary Iraqi's would feel some comfort, if they knew those who caused their misery were being held accountable.

If Obama, at this point, moved to hold the Bush administration accountable, it would provoke a much greater divide and conflict in the country than there already are. I think he has a good sense of priorities and is acting upon it.

agreed, but it is still a horrible horrible shame that those responsible for so much human suffering and pain are still free to walk the earth and defend that administration's policies. They should have been held accountable, and every single day that goes by when they are not held accountable, ironically, only further divides the nation as those who defend such human callousness and cruelty only grow bolder and more cruel.

he's just moving the troops to afghanistan...and then sending more troops from the US to afghanistan. but hey, they're out of iraq

The corruption stems from poverty and a lack of political development, not the Iraqis "sucking at it." I know it's easy to get frustrated with the people many of us thought we were helping, but the US dismantled their government, the military, any semblance of order after the invasion. more than a hundred thousand Iraqis have died; I think they have a right to be angry. We could have handled the war and our previous history with Iraq (such as supporting Saddam Hussein) much more responsibly.

spoken like true bigot

we go over there and kill over 2 million people,(women and children included), completely bomb and destroy the infrastructure of all of the major cities, allow coldblooded killers like Blackwater to kill whoever whenever, pit people against people,leave the country in shambles, and now you say "tough shit". Why not just say out loud, "I hate Muslims"?

Iraq was better off with Saddam Hussein.

Well too bad they suck at it? Not one Iraqi had killed one American when George W. started ‘Shock and Awe’. If another country decided they didn’t like what George W. did in Iraq and started ‘Shock and Awe’ in America and killed thousands of Americans and made refugees of millions more, do you think you would complain?

We caused the devastation in Iraq! There is no denying it. Had we not bombed the shit out of their country, it would not be our fault. But alas, we did it. Acknowledging facts should be a requirement. Spinning what will happen to them when we leave, does not change the facts. We caused what is going on now. Not Saddam Hussein, he was dead long ago. The excuse, ‘he made us do it’ is bullshit! We were ‘afraid’ he would do to us what we did to them, is not a good excuse for our actions.

No one was held accountable. That doesn’t change the facts. The people of Iraq, whom we were supposed to be worried about, turned out to be victims again. First victims of a Dictator, then victims of an occupying Army.

I think if we weren’t so consumed by things like Tiger Woods sex life and other celebrity news, we would have the common decency to feel ‘shame’ for the actions of George W., Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the rest. They have walked off into the sunset. The poor Iraqi people are still living in it. I understand why ordinary Iraqi’s would be complaining. You would be complaining too!

hey diode or shall i say blind dumbass. First of all we should have never been in Iraq. We should never been there the first time we went. Grow your ass up and stop believing everything the corporate media tells you. we dont need to be no where, This is all to steal the resources of every country and destroy them and make them slaves to the matrix as well. We all slaves to the system so wake the fuck up cause what they doing in Iraq and Afgan is coming back home and they will do it to us. The movie crazies, they telling you what they getting ready to do, Usa is not a country its a corporation and they have started dividing it already, China has 10 docks now Dubai has 5, and so on and so on. So stop and think and wake up cause we getting ready to catch hell right here when the dollar falls just watch the only terrorist is the ELITES/BANKERS/VATICAN. Oh yeah before you respond to what i just said, I AM A MILITARY VETERAN WHO TELLS THE TRUTH.

Hell, two planes taking down three buildings in America, rocked my world. I can't imagine what 'Shock and Awe' would have done to my world. I love my family. I can't imagine seeing my family members killed by foreign bombs. I can't imagine what it would feel like to have a foreign army rummaging around in my home. I can't imagine what it would be like to have no water, because a foreign army bombed our infra-structure.

I didn't like George W., or approve of his actions, but I don't want to be a casualty because of it either. Heaven help us, if we ever have to pay for the actions of the Bush administration.

we're on the same page conniepae.

I probably should not have been so hard on diode, but l just get sick of American people not wanting to accept responsibility for what our government has done wrong in the middle east, and around the world, for that matter, and then try to just cast other people from other cultures, and race's into hell just because we're Americans and they're not. As a supposed nation of goodwill, we should be ashamed and embarrassed of ourselves for what we did in Iraq and to the Iraqi people. I am.

American arrogance,more than anything,else is ruining the planet.

We pay every day! We pay on so many levels and will do so for a few life times. The world also pays but most of all the Iraqis have and continue to pay the most...

My God.Do you just want those people to be left in the conditions that we put them in ?Doesn't sound humane to me.

"Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome, time for this one to come home!"

yes i am saying tough shit, we're giving them what they're asking for and they're doing an epic fail of a job doing what they said they wanted to do. they obviously can't run a country and have no idea what they're doing and no control over their populace. mind you it's iraqi's killing iraqi's over there right now, we're pretty much throwing our hands up and trying to stay out of the way

and i don't hate muslims, i just recognize them for the hypocrites they are. it's a religion of false peace that demands 100% obedience once it has full power and control over you, and no one seems to understand that. it's a perfect system of control, get people "believing" in your cause on a religious level and you can do anything. countries run by islam are by definition tyrannical, people obey through fear. people in america don't fear the government, they're just dumb.

after reading through your posts i can basically take you off the list of people to take seriously, you're a conspiracy theorist wing nut with no credibility. sorry. enjoy being an angry black man who is always pissed at the world and having a stroke at a young age. good day.

"Do you just want those people to be left in the conditions that we put them in "

thats what they asked for, so, yes.

without going into a huge post, i agree/disagree with you both on some levels.

america needs to go back to focusing on herself, become great again, and not be playing in other people's sandboxes. our country is in shambles as well, people don't seem to understand how close we are to collapse. it's literally within a generation away if we don't do something about it now.

"and i don't hate muslims, i just recognize them for the hypocrites they are. it's a religion of false peace that demands 100% obedience once it has full power and control over you, and no one seems to understand that. it's a perfect system of control, get people "believing" in your cause on a religious level and you can do anything. countries run by islam are by definition tyrannical, people obey through fear. people in america don't fear the government, they're just dumb".

_____________________________________________________

You forgot to mention the part about being a racist, cultural and religious bigot, or maybe you didn't because you're response validates my assessment. You are a bigot. Islam is no different the the fundamental christianity that's been used in this country for the past 200 years to scare the shit out of people and keep the masses in fear. Both religions start practicing this "die and go to heaven or hell" bullshit at an early age on children just for the sake of mind control. The last that I checked George Bush, Dick Cheney, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and all of this other right wing crazy nuts were doing the same thing.PREACHING FEAR. Police in America today are beating the shit out of whoever they choose to, and now they're going as far as evening killing people(Black people) while being recorded, so don't give me that shit about people not fearing the government in America. Maybe you don't, because you're one of them whose attacking us.The problem is not over there. The problem is in your head and your heart. You're looking for excuses to justify your hatred for any and everybody that doesn't look like you.Your time is coming real soon.Try doing yourself a favor, and just call a spade a spade.

Ain't nothing better that taking a youngster to the woodshed early in the morning. Try behaving for the rest of the day, cause there's plenty more where this came from.

Oh, I almost forgot......Love rules.

i love the fact that you just used a racial term whilst calling me a racist. thanks for the laugh.

and you happen to be another prime example of someone on current who can take something with no emotional content and twist it into knowing my inner most person. thanks for the assumptions but i'm sorry to disappoint you and tell you that you're wrong on all accounts. good day

when all else fails, you try to label someone as an "angry Black man". You know that's a code name used to discredit Black men, when in truth, he's probably just too damn smart for to debate with.You really don't appreciate Black men try to tell you anything. In your mind, we're beneath you, just like the Iraqi people and Muslims are. I've never heard the phrase "Angry White Man" used on this site, and we both know that some White men are angry too. You're one of them.
Let me hear you call connipae,DRudeboy, Vierotchka, JuliusBC and everyone else who disagrees with you on this post "Angry White People". Like I said last night, You're a bigot.

really? Do you have any freaking idea at all how long Iraq has been running its own country?

Ever heard of the Persian Empire?

"it's iraqi's killing iraqi's over there right now,"

which is the history of colonization across the globe diode...this IS the aftermath of occupation, and on some level, destabilization may have been the original plan. The Bush administration's foreign policy was the flip side of the same coin you are describing as Islamic, and while I'm not going to disagree with your observations about the tyranny and obedience through fear, we have produced even more disastrous results, we have just gone about it in a different way.

and funding the DOD at the rate of 65+ percent of the federal budget is not going to be the way to get out of other people's sandboxes...but I think what people in America don't see is that the divide and conquer strategy is playing out quite well here at home too.

Case in point --the extremes surrounding health care reform, and nobody wants to be saddled with a disaster and then told it is what they asked for, but I can see there is the possibility of that happening with health care reform.

and you are both very bright intelligent men who each have something of value that you bring to current...but alas, when we allow ourselves to be divided, we allow ourselves to be conquered.

yes i'm such a racist my best friend is from kenya, another one is from india and another japanese, i have more non white friends than whites. i'm totally a racist. oh and he's angry, he's black, and he's a man. so, angry black man. that's a factual statement. cry about it. and yes, the man who can't type a complete sentence is way too smart for me to have a discussion with.

a bigot is someone devoted to a cause/opinion and who vehemently opposes those with differing opinions, generally with tones of animosity and irrationality, or you could just say obstinant.

i'm more against idiocy than anything else in these posts and call it out when i see it

i have my opinions just like you, however if something comes along that rationally and logically alters the facts that my opinions are based on, i can change them. you seem fairly stuck in your rut however, and i'm sorry for you but it's not my problem.

Brother I agree with you 100%. We just have to come together under the right rule for the right reason. If not, we'll just be another evil force.

Common ground should have no borders. What's right for everybody, not just for me and my kind, or you and your kind and not just America ? What's right for the planet ?

The first right thing that we all must do is admit that what happen in Iraq, and what we we did to that country and the Iraqi people was wrong.

What a dumbshit. Spade may be a racial term to a racist, but to everybody else ..........,

"IT'S JUST A COLOR"

You need to re look at the part about people in America fearing the government. There are recent statistics to suggest that this is very true, Americans fear and distrust the government more than ever.

His regime was undoubtedly repressive and genocidal, especially against the Kurds.

But how high was his bodycount? Tens of thousands? We're talking 100 times that number right now plus infrastructure destruction (water cleaning facilities, roads, hospitals, etc.), near permanent poisoning from depleted uranium rounds, millions displaced and out of their homes and consistent political violence.

I'm not saying Saddam was a good guy, but this is -not- better.

Forgive me, I was only thinking of his use of chemical weapons and such against his own people in the late 80's, early 90's. I suppose if you count his entire regime and his war against Iran and Kuwait it could easily reach a million, although the war in Iran likely accounts for half of that.

But I would argue that if we can attribute war dead to both sides to Saddam then it's not necessarily unfair to attribute any deaths directly related to our invasion and occupation to us, even if we weren't responsible for them.

For instance, it may not be our fault that mass looting took place after our invasion (although more troops might have stopped it) but would that event have happened even if we didn't invade? Sure, we didn't do the killing nor are we primarily responsible, but it's a -consequence- of invasion that can't be attributed to circumstance.

I'm not trying to play the blame game here nor am I insisting that the U.S. is "worse than Saddam" (we're not), I just want to make sure people understand what the -cost- of this operation was in human life.

Too often the costs of war get hidden that way and it messes up how people -need- to understand how this stuff works.

I am not sure what you are trying to convince me of. People die in war, which is tragic. As someone who was there, I can speak firsthand of the human suffering. Can you?

I just think that this attempt to demonize the U.S.by liberals and make us out as some sort of altruistic savior by conservatives is getting outlandish. Yes, Bush was a chimpanzee, yes Dick Cheney is the equivalent of a Sith Lord, yes contractors made outlandish profit, yes Blackwater is a lawless mercenary group, BUT, and this is key, with or without the U.S. invading, Iraqis would die.

At least under the current scenario they have a shot at erecting something less barbaric than they were living with. I, for one, would prefer to "die on my feet than live on my knees".

The process will be bloody, messy, and innocents will die, but one can say that about any armed conflict. Does this justify the invasion? No. Does this console those who lost loved ones (Americans and Iraqis alike)? No. BUT we are pouring billions of dollars into the country to try to make it right. Leave the past as the past and concentrate on what we can do now to make their lives better.

Yet you posted a picture of a child with his head blown off to what? Shock me? I assure you that what you post in pictures I can trump with experience.

In any event, our economy tanked mostly because we were robbed blind by those we entrust with our investment dollars and providing us with fair loans. War didn't help, but let's remember all the crooks involved.

And to your other point, you won't see me supporting religion anytime soon. I think your assessment on that is accurate, but I still have hope that man is slowly moving towards logic and less to a magical man in the sky for solutions.

The point of the picture was to point out that barbarism can be defined on a much lower level than millions and was in response to your statement of : "Did you even bat an eyelash when Saddam was doing the slaughtering? His work was definitely much more frenetic and barbaric than ours."

As to the economy tanking, I agree with what you said here about the investment dollars and the crooks involved, but the cost of the war is a bit more subtle. After the war started, many of our domestic goods began to rise in price. Quite often, many goods were harder to get as they were being sent to Iraq (building goods but not limited to). The rising prices caused many people at home to be priced out of the market. Many smaller businesses began to fail, housing costs and prices shot through the roof. The housing market went out of control which gave the crooks mentioned above the opening to do their thieving.

Consequently, the bottom fell out and everything tumbled. People's expendable cash was depleted and no where to go for help. The banks slammed their coffers and small business loans became almost non-existent which killed their operating capital and ability to function. Many people lost their jobs which only compounded the problem. Spending stopped on many levels which crippled the economy.

The huge bail out only put gold in the pockets of the crooks as we all know. The $700 billion bail out money and the nearing $1000 billion or (Trillion) war cost all came from tax dollars. The turbulence caused by all of this is still causing the economy to reel as the little people still can't make things happen in their lives, can't pay their bills or afford to buy many of their needs as the prices are still high. The banks are still holding back with much of their loaning abilities and therefore the spending levels are small for most people. Essentially, the economy is still in a log jam so to speak because of this.

It's all about cause and effect. Crooks always show up when there is an opening created.

Here is a thought aimed at "cause and effect":
Just think, if Bill Clinton wouldn't have played with Monica Lewinsky, the people wouldn't have been so dead set on finding a "religious moral compass" for their next president. George W. Bush came across as a Religious Christian wearing God on his sleeve and this appealed to the public. The Republicans saw this as an advantage and pushed it hard. They wanted morality to be restored in the White House and the rest is history.

So the question is this: was George W. Bush the result of "Cause and Effect"?

The war was because of G.W.B. as was the opening for the $700 billion bail out and the resulting $1000 billion cost of war. The crooks only took advantage of the situations provided. Let's not overlook Cheney's Halliburton in all of this and what it has contributed to the cost of Iraq.

Nothing but a Religious Hell. God, you gotta love religion..............

Exactly!