US House Approves Landmark Bill to Extend Health Care to Millions

You are being a bit overly dramatic. Frankly it does not matter to me if the insurance companies all go bankrupted, perhaps then we will get what we need, one payer health care for all. Will this bankrupt the US? Not at all, free universal health care is available in many other countries which do not spend billions of dollars destroying other countries' intrastructures and economies though war and then spending billions rebuilidng that economy and intrastructure.

because the soul propose of medicine is to make money, you know like they have been doing for years

When you get right down to it JohnA, you're completely right, despite what most of the people on this site will tell you. As far as I'm concerned, the government has no right to take an individuals money and give it to someone else, for whatever reason, without your discretion. That's your money, you earned it. People will tell you that it's the right thing to do, to look out for your neighbor. Really? Says who? Sure there are millions of Americans without insurance, but that doesn't mean you take the money from the people who have insurance, to solve the problem. I'm not actually even an American, I live in a country with universal health care, and this is just how I see the issue.

All in good time. You are closer to it now than you would be under McCain.

Amen and I do.

My opinion is that the government should not be involved in the marriage business at all. The government should establish rules for the establishment of domestic partnerships, which can be between any two or more people, irregardless of sex, who want to form a partnership, combine their income and pay common household expenses. Yes, I said "or more". If three couples want to live in a communal household they should be allowed to form a six person domestic partnership. Marriage is a matter for the church, any church, and government has no business interferring with the matter.

quit arguing.

Whatever. I'm seriously done with the idiots in this country refusing to work together. Have fun being bought out by China.

That's a good solution go "red," it is better than dead.

Leader of the free world? You mean the guy who thinks welfare deadbeats and illegal aliens are more deserving of the money I earn than I am?

lol you call that a leader?

Amen.

Japan owns more of our debt than China. Idiot.

They are one in the same buddy. Single payer healthcare is next get ready, I can't wait.

You don't get arrested you idiot you pay a fine. If you get sick or injured in an accident I don't want you going to the hospital or expecting any healthcare. It's people like you who are the deadbeats, you don't want insurance but want the rest of us to pay when something happens to you. You make me sick, pay for your own healthcare you ahole.

Well that kind of sounds like the same stance that Bush took over and over again.

don't act like all we've been doing is bitching, Slarabee. We've lobbied for single payer, we've lobbied for a public option, we've lobbied for medicare E. we've made phone calls, written letters, gone to public meetings, for what? This piece of shit? The dems and Obama LET US DOWN.

you're very right about one thing, it's here now and it's not going away. The insurance establishment is loving it and rubbing their greedy little paws as we speak. They know they've got us by the balls now and forever.

Oh I'm sure it will accomplish the task it's meant for, namely taking the money I worked for and earned and giving it to welfare cases and illegals.

JohnA, get ready to pony up for your own healthcare, I am tired of paying for deadbeats like you.

its as if John A is the only person with a job?

i bet he wishes there was more unemployed people who went bankrupt on medical costs so he could point the finger at more idiots...

If I were a religious nut I'd say AMEN! What the hell, I'll say it anyway...AMEN!

Educate yourself before you spew this nonsense. The way things were right now is what was killing us and draining every cent we have. This bill tries to help us by putting more restrictions on the insurance industry.

I hope I can get some depends now that I have Uncle Sam taking care of me now. I'm soiling myself laughing at this. The government has no business serving any of these services you mentioned. The founders never intended for taxpayers to foot the bill like they are now. If you think the profits will go away you're sadly mistaken.

In the end though I don't think any of this will matter. By 2015 (if not sooner) hyperinflation will be here and the dollars Ben is printing won't by a loaf of bread. Let alone grandma's diabetes meds.

Can you afford your grandma's meds now? Probably not with all the Bush job losses.

Bush, Obama. They are both distractions from the real problems which are the driving forces behind them. The Elites want it all and man are they getting it. Don't believe me, look what we've learned from the bailouts and stimulus.

Saving isn't a new concept. If you want to be successful you save. Regardless of what level of success one is trying to achieve. Capital (savings) is needed. The Elites know this. They have been and are doing everything within their power to rob the common folk of their productive capacity. The government of the US has been doing their evil bidding now for some time.

Did you Jesse Junior with the mallet? He is more fun to watch than his dad.

That's Pelosi.

That's Pelosi.

2 reasons he wont leave: 1. they won't let him fly without purchasing two seats 2. he cant get through security with a mass amount of oxycontin

He never said he would leave if the healthcare bill passed. He said he would go somewhere else to get his healthcare if we went to single payer. Got to listen to the whole 5 minutes to know what he was talking about.

Rush lost a lot of weight.

He won't leave because he's on the gravy train. No where else on the planet will pay him hundreds of millions of dollars to spew bullshit and he knows it. Any other country would have arrested him as a criminal, or had him "disappeared".

You mean to tell me it came up? I am still in my bunker with my guns canned goods and tin foil hat to stop the CIA from tracking me. Is it safe to emerge?

No health insurance company or government sponsored healthcare program is going to keep someone with a long term illness from the effects of their illness. Will it cure them? No. Will it guarantee appropriate care? No. Will it extend their life? No. All the expensive tests you can afford can not change cancer, cardiac problems, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, or any other of the assorted diseases from what they are. Extension of their lives are at best minimal, and that may be curtailed by the drug side effects. What is needed is prevention of the disease in the first place. As controversial as the environment is, since these diseases preexisted the increase of industrial pollution, albeit increasing proportionately to the increase in use and accessibility of more prepackaged, or industry driven farm foods, like grains, or additive type sugars or preservatives. Looking back through history many famous kings, queens and leaders in the dark ages, were dieing from from present day terminal illnesses we all fear today. A friend of mine recently died of terminal cancer. Her diagnosis when pronounced typically, with or without treatment, would giver her a survival of no more than 6 months. Even with treatment and changes in diet she lived a mere 11 months after diagnosis. The company we were employed by lost funding, could not keep up with costs, and went out of business during her treatment. Even though she went onto government health coverage, it was not some lifesaving placebo this healthcare program is purported to be. Would going green guarantee us longer, healthier lives? Well, ask Gore. So far all the giving that has increased his net worth in the green scheme of things has not alleviated or stopped any of the problems associated with not being green. Where is the prototype green industries he has promised? Where has this money been invested? Is it only been used in educating us about a possible problem, we can surmise on our own, instead of really investing the money into a setting using actively the example of the good a green Earth can become? One might go so far as to ask would God allow my friend or friends to experience pain and suffering had there been no pollution, no industry, massive overly managed corporate farms, etc., etc.? Then answer would be yes. Should I hate God, and abhor all of his creation. The answer would be no. Science did not create this world or universe, or humanity. The fact that Christ set standards to live by, that would increase life, and not just on Earth, but after life, in a controversial time in history, not unlike the present day problems is no reason to condemn Christianity. If I by choice do what is bad for my health, my physical well being, with no regard to consequences of my actions, then I am trying to play God. And when I suffer those health consequences, then I, who have chosen to be my own God, need to condemn myself and no one else. Wake up kiddos you are in charge of your actions, and outcomes.

I won't dispute the pollution in our air, water, and food...along with all of the chemicals that are added to our water and food...damned unhealthy.
I won't dispute the fact that monies could be better spent on a lot less of, "all of the above" and much, much more on cleaning it all up.
However, realistically, in today's society, many people are not in a position to grow their own food or clean their own water or clean the air they breathe.
It is a fact that healthy foodstuffs in stores are more expensive than a burger from a fast food joint. Many people are in a position of not being able to afford the good foodstuffs. Pasta is a slow killer...but it is cheap and affordable.
I am sorry you lost your friend to a devastating disease. Not all medical treatments are effective.
However, there are many people suffering with a host of illnesses, that if treated, would give them a much better quality of life. Or even cure what ails them.
It is not right that people not recieve medical treatment, or lose everything they have ever worked for because they get ill.
Yes...we are responsible for how we take care of ourselves...it is the individual's choice. Yet, we are all in this together. And if we deny our fellow human beings the care which we would want for ourselves, we have lost our humanity, and deserve to go the way of the dinosaur.

I still have certain items my friend gave to me before her death. I absolutely will not get rid of them. I will not erase her email either. I was 100% behind her when she went to the state house and lobbied for a reduction of the waiting periods imposed before someone with terminal illness can actually use the government coverage. It may have made a difference, although not a big one. It may not have reversed her cancer, but maybe she would have lived a year and a half, instead of 11 months. While something should be done, I have all the same concerns everyone else has about this current situation.

I guess getting a job would be totally out of the question.

Many people can't work due to their illnesses. And to stay within Medicare/Medicaid limits, many people CAN'T work legally or they lose what little coverage they have! Are you going to tell the diabetic who's lost a foot to nerve damage to get out there and earn more money so he can pay higher premiums for shittier coverage?

What would I tell a diabetic. They tax the shit out of my cigarettes, but you can eat all the Big Macs and drink all the Pepsi you want. If my behavior is taxable, why isn't your?

So when your cigarettes give you emphysema or lung cancer or mouth cancer or throat cancer, then we'll see who's got enough saved up to pay for his own treatments and ongoing meds.

Management 101:

What do you want to achieve?
How do you measure it?
What is your plan to change/achieve your goal?

The US is spending 16% of it's GDP to achieve 75% of what the UK achieves with 7% of their GDP.
Any manager I know would say that is a failure any way you measure it. Try any number of strategies which have been successful elsewhere, from Costa Rica, to Canada to Germany, anything and I really mean anything is better than the mess you had until Saturday.
The US was going to bankrupt itself if it didn't try something new and different.
Old country saying
"If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."

Congress has finally decided to stop digging. Thank GOD!!!

ditto. And can't you just wait to see the revenuers come to your house asking you questions? The IRS, used to make unscheduled visits to American households, they suspected of undeclared income. How would you like a visit asking you why you are not paying for health insurance when it looks like you have enough money to do so? This would definitely not bare well for crack, meth, or housed crime outlets. Especially since those expensively dressed, jewel-clad, fancy-sport car driving neighbors might be a little more closely scrutinized by Uncle Sam. Maybe they will have to get their hair cut and get real jobs! Hahahahahaha!

Odd that you quote Thomas Jefferson. Texas just wrote him out of history.

Increasing competition is a good thing, except when you are talking about Health Insurance companies. They have a monopoly and they know it. They can be in collusion to keep prices up, in spite of the illusion of competition.

Insurance companies insure "risk," not your health. They are as old as Lords of London, and they are businesses. Get that straight. And now that Uncle Sam is your insurer, don't think that he won't look at the bottom line either.

Do you mean mutants or the current miscreants, who think life is a irrevocable guarantee, since the healthcare bill passage?

Add to that private health insurance companies are literally unnecessary. They are an overpaid middle man that has been enabled by the GOP. Non profit insurance companies could distribute our premiums as effectively and more cheaply than a for profits. This would drive costs way down because they wouldn't have to pay off investors and CEO's. But here in America, profit is such a sacrosanct cow that its allowed to function as a societal parasite because a few people stand to make billions. For the life of me I can't understand any mindset that would think this is a good thing. A portion of our society has apparently become so crass and so cynical that they no longer recognize when something is being done for THEIR benefit.

You got that 100% right. Single Payer is the way to greater financial freedom.

I guess getting a job was totally out of the question.

are you kidding me? not every job in this country provides people with healthcare. in michigan, its harder work to get a job than it is to actually do the job. our unemployment rate is 14.9%. easier said than done.

Until Saturday the US was driving off a cliff. Anything was better than that, The only question is how much better will this be.

Health care will still be expensive and you will still need to decide how much to pay and how to pay, join the 21st century my friends. At least you look like you won't be slitting anyone's throat from now on. I think this means the death panels are gone.

I'll have to decide what I pay, because the government is going to decide how much I pay for the welfare cases and illegals.

Even better fix, let them find their own solutions, but you Republicans would never let that happen before. And if you had a choice you wouldn't let it happen now either.

You are all in favor of states rights until a state wants to do something you don't like, like perhaps legalize medical marijuana???

Don't assume because I don't agree with the forced bill passage that I'm a member of the republican party. The problem lies in the pudding. Republicans & Democrats. This system was designed to distract the people from the real problems. It keeps the people fighting about who's party is better. All the while not paying any attention to the real problems that face society. Look at it this way, its a two headed monster. Kill the monster kill the problems.

Jumping from this fiasco to medical marijuana is a big stretch. The two have nothing in common. I'm not for legalization of marijuana for use by "medically deemed" patients. I'm for legalization of all drugs for use by anyone whom chooses to use them. The government has no business telling the people what they can and can't put in our bodies. Let alone what type, if any, health care we have to carry. The buck stops here! Let them try to impose a tax for this flawed piece of legislation on me and see what happens.

The government must fear its people. Not the other way around.

Sounds like you're the one smoking the medical marijuana if you think this will cut the cost of anything.

You say the same thing every time the democrats pass anything. You are becoming far too predictable.

States rights??? Democracy??? Then if you really do believe in democracy get out of the way. Let Oregon and California try their own solutions. You just will not let anyone recognize when the system is broken and god forbid that anyone wants to fix it.

You think that the liberals have lost here? Then lets put it to a vote and let reeds fall where they may. I like democracy it is great entertainment.

That's fine. So, if you lose your private insurance I have to assume you won't be using the federal insurance?

This is just another bailout of the insurance industry.

Yeah, and do you know who really, really appreciates it? The greedy fucking insurance industry who just bagged 30,000,000 new customers without lifting a single finger. The next time we see the headline about this year's exorbitant bonuses paid out to insurance execs, we can all feel warm and fuzzy that they're lying on the beach somewhere spending that money which was supposed to go to our poor neighbors who need medical care.

Well you can thank the GOP and their masters, the corporate lobbyists for that one. All Obama wanted a public option and they went insane. The bill that resulted was the result of extensive corporate influence and the GOP working on their behalf to ensure corporate America got their "cut". It's not a great bill, but it's the best that could be hammered out in a country where, arguably, lobbyists are just a powerful as politicians.

The dems could have done whatever they wanted through reconciliation. How in the hell did Bush shove everything from the wars to the patriot act down the dems throats? If the corporatecrats(especially Obama) would have just stood up and fought for those of us on the left, they could have forced the issue. I can only surmise that THEY DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO.

Nothing's free, right, but we can better off and happier if we share. Some things like health care and education must be taken cared by nation not by capitalism. If you're worried about the total cost your society should bear, you must think of other aspects like social integrity and competitiveness of your nation that comes from ppls overall health. It's something like building bridges and roads that can ppl share and make a country better place. Not stealing your time and money.

You obviously don't have any pre-exisiting health conditions.

Or maybe you're the CEO of an insurance company?

Some people need to make up their mind whether they want government or insurance companies, because, those are your options.

There does seem to be a strong reluctance of some, perhaps many people, that do not want to help those less fortunate at least have access to medical care.
They have not stopped to realize that they, too could one day be in that same situation, or someone they love could be there.
It is wrong to deny health care to people who cannot afford it, and the US has HMOs and a runaway, corporate run society to thank for it.

The government isn't "enslaving" anyone if that's what you're getting at. If you don't feel you're paid enough then perhaps you should acknowledge who keeps you poor, i.e. your employer and corporate America.