Nobelist Paul Krugman: Building a green economy is completely feasible
source: http://climateprogress.org/2010/04/08/paul-krugman-climate-economics-building-a-green-economy/
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- WakeUpPeople
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Nobelist Paul Krugman has a long piece in the upcoming Sunday NY Times Magazine, basically climate economics 101.
It is nearly 8000 words, so while you should read the whole thing, I’ll post some of the highlights below. I’ll also throw some links to the scientific and economic literature that the NYT, in its infinite wisdom/stupidity, refuses to include.
The essay isn’t primarily about the science, but this is what Krugman has to say on that, starting with the opening paragraph:
If you listen to climate scientists — and despite the relentless campaign to discredit their work, you should — it is long past time to do something about emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. If we continue with business as usual, they say, we are facing a rise in global temperatures that will be little short of apocalyptic. And to avoid that apocalypse, we have to wean our economy from the use of fossil fuels, coal above all….
This is an article on climate economics, not climate science. But before we get to the economics, it’s worth establishing three things about the state of the scientific debate.The first is that the planet is indeed warming. Weather fluctuates, and as a consequence it’s easy enough to point to an unusually warm year in the recent past, note that it’s cooler now and claim, “See, the planet is getting cooler, not warmer!” But if you look at the evidence the right way — taking averages over periods long enough to smooth out the fluctuations — the upward trend is unmistakable: each successive decade since the 1970s has been warmer than the one before.
Second, climate models predicted this well in advance, even getting the magnitude of the temperature rise roughly right. While it’s relatively easy to cook up an analysis that matches known data, it is much harder to create a model that accurately forecasts the future. So the fact that climate modelers more than 20 years ago successfully predicted the subsequent global warming gives them enormous credibility.
Yet that’s not the conclusion you might draw from the many media reports that have focused on matters like hacked e-mail and climate scientists’ talking about a “trick” to “hide” an anomalous decline in one data series or expressing their wish to see papers by climate skeptics kept out of research reviews. The truth, however, is that the supposed scandals evaporate on closer examination, revealing only that climate researchers are human beings, too. Yes, scientists try to make their results stand out, but no data were suppressed. Yes, scientists dislike it when work that they think deliberately obfuscates the issues gets published. What else is new? Nothing suggests that there should not continue to be strong support for climate research.
And this brings me to my third point: models based on this research indicate that if we continue adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere as we have, we will eventually face drastic changes in the climate. Let’s be clear. We’re not talking about a few more hot days in the summer and a bit less snow in the winter; we’re talking about massively disruptive events, like the transformation of the Southwestern United States into a permanent dust bowl over the next few decades.
Now, despite the high credibility of climate modelers, there is still tremendous uncertainty in their long-term forecasts. But as we will see shortly, uncertainty makes the case for action stronger, not weaker. So climate change demands action….
At this point, the projections of climate change, assuming we continue business as usual, cluster around an estimate that average temperatures will be about 9 degrees Fahrenheit higher in 2100 than they were in 2000. That’s a lot — equivalent to the difference in average temperatures between New York and central Mississippi. Such a huge change would have to be highly disruptive. And the troubles would not stop there: temperatures would continue to rise.
Furthermore, changes in average temperature will by no means be the whole story. Precipitation patterns will change, with some regions getting much wetter and others much drier. Many modelers also predict more intense storms. Sea levels would rise, with the impact intensified by those storms: coastal flooding, already a major source of natural disasters, would become much more frequent and severe. And there might be drastic changes in the climate of some regions as ocean currents shift. It’s always worth bearing in mind that London is at the same latitude as Labrador; without the Gulf Stream, Western Europe would be barely habitable.
But there are at least two reasons to take sanguine assessments of the consequences of climate change with a grain of salt. One is that, as I have just pointed out, it’s not just a matter of having warmer weather — many of the costs of climate change are likely to result from droughts, flooding and severe storms. The other is that while modern economies may be highly adaptable, the same may not be true of ecosystems. The last time the earth experienced warming at anything like the pace we now expect was during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, about 55 million years ago, when temperatures rose by about 11 degrees Fahrenheit over the course of around 20,000 years (which is a much slower rate than the current pace of warming). That increase was associated with mass extinctions, which, to put it mildly, probably would not be good for living standards….
(the entire speech is at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/magazine/11Economy-t.html)
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- WakeUpPeople
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Wetdog
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Look at the picture. THAT is why we need to stop using coal and petroleum.
We are destroying the earth and everything on it---including ourselves.
It doesn't take a genius to figure that out, no matter what you think of global warming.
- 2 years ago
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Wetdog
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Dagum
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Other than the nonsense about global warming, I agree with Mr. Krugman’s sentiment that a green economy is not only feasible but, is much more economically desirable. Enviromentmenatlism at its core is really about economic efficiency. It is beneficial to conserve and use resources wisely and efficiently. Its economically efficient be able to recycle and harness pollutants that are by-products from manufacturing processes. There is nothing to be gained by being wasteful and engaging in excessive and unnecessary pollution.
I have always wondered why no one from the green movement or elsewhere has ever developed an in-depth environmental economic theory? Economics and environmentalism seem to go hand and hand.
- 2 years ago
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Dagum
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WakeUpPeople
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Dagum:
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=CaU_FXSzk0AC&oi=fnd&p...=onepage&q=environmental%20economic%20theory&f=false
Many have. I am surprised that you think that no one has considered this before you. There are tons of environmental economic theory books out there. This one was from 1980. They are there if you want to read them.
- 2 years ago
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WakeUpPeople
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Dagum
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WakeUpPeople:
Thanks for the links, I will take a look.. The green -economic movement needs better marketing. I had no idea such theories existed!
- 2 years ago
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Dagum
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mitekillem
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Scientist have not proven that CARBON emissions are the cause of the warming, as it is considered a trace element in the air we breathe. Trace. Carbon takes up possible 0.038%. Other Trace Elements in the air - chlorine 2.2, manganese 0.033, sodium 0.85, aluminum 0.25, bromine 0.040 and vanadium 0.015.
Aluminum is a metal...metals reflect light, and we breathe it. We're breathing chlorine.
There's more of these two elements than Carbon. But yet Carbon is the thing that's causing the warming. It's not even half a percent of all of the air.The sad truth is, they don't know what is causing the warming.
We all know that it is getting warmer. The problem is that "Scientist" have all come to this consensus without any real proof that this particular substance is the cause.Pollution is a problem, and everyone should do their part to keep it down, and make sustainable solutions to minimize our footprint on the earth. We should do this regardless of the climate...it should be an everyday thing.
But also, we need to find out why the earth is getting warmer. The real reason, not this "carbon emissions" BS. People exhale carbon-dioxide. Therefore, you are contributing to global warming.
- 2 years ago
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mitekillem
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Dagum
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mitekillem:
The U.N. through its proxy the I.P.C.C. doesn't even have data to support its Own contention that planet has warmed since 1995. In a BBC interview with U.N. CRU director Dr. Phil Jones, Jones says he believes the planet is warming while also stating there is no significant data to support his belief.
- 2 years ago
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Dagum
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WakeUpPeople
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mitekillem:
I don't know where you are getting your info, but I can assure you that it is not correct. The concept of the greenhouse effect does not require the atmosphere to be completely saturated with the GHG before any change is noticeable. Consider an actual greenhouse. It is a thin layer of plastic and the sun that creates the warming effect. You claim that there is not a consensus, and yet every nationally recognized academy of science has agreed that humans are affecting climate. 82% of all scientists and 97.5% of climatologists agree that anthropogenic climate change is real. You can't just suggest that scientists don't know what is changing the climate and expect people to believe you. They do know, but there is a huge portion of the American population that has CHOSEN not to listen to the experts. This is a globally recognized issue. Scientists from all walks of life and all corners of the globe have agreed. NASA has agreed. The American Department of Defense has agreed. Governments around the world have agreed. This is not some little theory that a few guys in lab coats came up with. There have not been any sufficient SCIENTIFIC studies to disprove the theory of anthropogenic climate change. Meanwhile, the evidence grows daily to support the theory. If you are interested, I suggest you research from CREDIBLE sources. Skeptics love to think that they have thought of the one thing that scientists have not, but in all of my research, I have not found one claim that hasn't been taken into account by the scientific community. Why on Earth would we NOT want to listen to the experts on this issue?
- 2 years ago
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WakeUpPeople
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WakeUpPeople
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Dagum:
Context is so important. I wish it were used more often.
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/phil-jones-earth-cooling-sunday-mail-03...
- 2 years ago
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WakeUpPeople
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WakeUpPeople
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Humanity has reached a critical decision on a global scale. Either we fix this, or we suffer the consequences. If anyone has any hint of desire for the survival of future generations, this is your time to make a stand. This is OUR time, this is OUR crisis, and this is OUR responsibility. OUR planet, OUR home, OUR transgression, OUR chance to do something about it. And hopefully our great great grandchildren will learn from our courage, because we are in absolute peril if we CHOOSE to do nothing.
- 2 years ago
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WakeUpPeople
