If mainstream medicine really works, why are Americans so unhealthy?

problem? processed food

fix? education

done.

sorta, but some places barely have organic food. Depending on where you live its either to expensive to eat healthy or its pretty out of reach. I can't imagine the majority of say appalachia searching for a whole foods, trader joes, etc. On top of that education is not enough against marketing tactics appealing to our animalistic desires. Its the rational vs the irrational, and many people aren't equipped to counter the ads

Not quite, you still need to distribute the new product. The system is full of poison pushers right now. Got to bring the good eats and treats TO the people.

Organic is gettin' rare , out in the sticks lately , gas prices make it more expensive to keep in stock . The local stores are just dropping the items . I hope the weather is kind to my garden this year ...

I planted my greenhouse yesterday. Yes stores have been dropping REAL organics on the coast of Oregon as well.

I hope the weather treats us nice this year . All the gardeners I know , when they can , try and share with the neighbors .....

We share but that does not seem to get to the heart of the matter. I want wholesome healthy mostly organic grains and veges to become mainstream. Oh to dream.

Me too , when I see the sweet children that get crap pushed on them in public schools , for lunch , I almost cry .

maybe you if you can stop smoking dope and sober up a bit you would realize that is the same shit i am trying to fucking point out..the only difference is that somewhere in yours comes this paranoid delusion that some martian is trying to fucking poison you..LIKE I SAID..YOU ARE THE MASTER OF YOUR OWN BODY..i dont see anybody a darn thing down your effing throat..

you have a headache?? you think aspiring is bad for you..THEN DONNNNNNNNTTTTT FUCKING DRINK IT...

you think you have an illness???? you think certain pills are bad..THEN DONT FUCKING DRINK IT...

people are the victim of a simple thing called marketing..compound that with dope use you would find morons like you NOT KNOWING what they want and what they need...

MAYBE.........you should try to learn how to comprehend what you read..(of course i bet you got offended when i chastised DOPE like marijuana)

do you smoke dope??? well do you...that's a drug

is that all you've got? the caps lock key? cut back on the rage man. take a walk in the park, maybe smoke a joint. i dont understand how someone with such angry posts could be a happy person. Om Mani Padme Hum. i hope you find happiness. and it's not a drug, it's an herb. learn your biology before shooting off at the as...mouth.

Who the hell smokes pot like Cheech and Chong and then does stupid shit like Johnny Knoxville? Pot makes you lazy and saps your motivation, so anyone who smokes like Cheech & Chong is not going to have the motivation and energy to do stupid shit from the episode of Jackass that they just watched.

Well said.

Wow. Thank you for this very level comment. I posted this to make us think not because I believe western medicine is bull. I think people need to become proactive in taking care of themselves. 8 years of medical school does not make a god.

i agree the MD's aren't the root cause of this, it's big pharma.

Exactly!

there is some merit to holistic medicine and the merged medical practices, western medicine works, eastern medicine works, both are very different yet work fairly well we just use our options very well. the main reason our countries health is failing is lack of primary care doctors

Nice blanket criticism.

Do you realize you are criticizing his blanket criticism of your article,
which was a blanket criticism of traditional medicine?

I feel as if I am in a logic puzzle. I was complimenting unimatrix0 on being completely critical. Do you have an incredible insight to impart or are you fucking with me?

Ripusofficans +^'d

They are kind of interconnected especially when there are McDonald's in hospitals.

Great post ! Have you read " the hundred year lie ? " It explains how this all came about .... The average doctor has only two hours of nutritional education . I do recommend them for broken bones , giving birth , ect , it is important to keep all options open if at all possible . What bothers me , is that this alternative info , is not easily found , and drugs , are PUSHED on people , instead of the herbs , dietary changes and other less expensive options .

Thank you.I have not read it but I will put it on my short list.

I am not really against western medicine at all. My biggest gripes are half tested pharma drugs and pretending like they know it all. Doctors are not gods. Some are great and some are crap. Denying that there are natural ways to promote health is just silly. I have found from talking, well and mostly listening, that people want what they want. Weather or not it is poison does not matter much. Human condition maybe?

I had to think about that idea for a few days . It would work . Eliminate the profit motive , get a chance to use the things that really work . People WANT their loved ones to be well . That includes doctors and drugists .

Some twigs and berries have been used for thousands of years and are very effective. Big Pharma is trying to patent their chemical compounds so as to sell it. Nature does supply medicine. One that I use is goldenseal powder. It can be used to replace certain antibiotics.
How about an Apple a day keeps the doctor away.

As an engineer I don't like giving people medical advice but

1. While goldenseal powder may help treat urinary tract infections it is by no means a substitute for conventional antibiotics.
2. Long-term use of goldenseal can be harmful because it can interfere with your vitamin B metabolism

You really need to be careful with a natural supplements. A lot of the time their potential benefits are exaggerated while their potential side-effects are diminished. Since the entire supplement industry is effectively unregulated it's difficult to tell what you're actually being sold.

I did not say that I take goldenseal as a supplement. I use it for respiratory infections and for healing open wounds. It works much like an antibiotic and you need to replace live bacteria after using.

Supplements are maintenance That I am in no way promoting. Some are helpful but again they can be snake oil. Tricking people into thinking they need a drug or a supplement is a quick way to a constant income.

I am pushing a very balanced diet high in fruit, berries, and vegetables. Also very important is a low poison intake. Location often makes this hard if there is air pollution. All the more reason to eat foods that help our organs process toxins.

A balanced diet is good, and will result in you being less likely to get sick.

However, you stil CAN get sick.

And if you do, modern medical science is your best bet to survive.

I can't find any scientific studies that suggest that goldenseal is effective in either of those two cases.

I would be more than happy if you knew of any. The most recent study I've found dates to 2007 so my information can be out of date.

Not true. It depends on what sickness you have and your insurance. No money. No test. No can fix.

I and my extended family have been using goldenseal in this way for the last 34 years. I have also used antibiotics for the same ailments. Science must be paid for. Natural healing such as goldenseal would cause much grief to the people who push their product. Do you think they will let this type of information out without a fight?

Lets look at another plant "Ala Vera". Very good for burns. Arnica is another wonderful plant. It works as well as ice to reduce swelling and bruising from the bangs of life. Not to be taken internally!

I wish there were a book that had only truth but their is not. Excepting modern medicine is a leap in faith as well. Doctors kill people all the time testing their drugs. They say the person died of such and such disease not from testing the drug. I will try to find the NPR story from about six years ago.

Unfortunately while I wouldn't dismiss your anecdotal evidence, I can't except it as proof that goldenseal works. It looks like, in my opinion, scientists looked into goldenseal but found the results underwhelming so they moved on to areas that would be more fruitful. Considering how much it costs to develop new antibiotics, I would suspect the pharmaceutical companies would have much more to gain by creating a pill and selling it than covering up this information. New antibiotics are always in demand and always will be in demand since bacteria will continue to develop resistances to existing antibiotics (which is why you also shouldn't use them unless you need them).

Actually you should also try honey for burns: http://www.medbc.com/annals/review/vol_9/num_1/text/vol9n1p33.htm

It's getting late so I'm not going to look into the specifics of the plants you just listed.

I'm not against natural remedies or medicines that come from nature. I only want to find out what is true and what paths will lead to the best results. I don't except modern medicine on faith, I except it because researchers conducted a properly controlled study to prove that it's both effective and safe. If any modern medicines aren't effective or safe I won't except them. That said you're right in that it's not always easy to find that information.

If a doctor(s) going around knowingly treating people with drugs that have not been tested properly then she/he should bare the full consequences of the outcome.

Good luck with that . Depends on the illness .

While , It is vital to get confirmation of the problem , by a medical professional , Grapefruit seed extract is a better antibiotic substitute than golden seal . It has more of a broad spectrum and is more powerful . For that particular problem , if it were me , I also recommend after the 10 day treatment of grapefruit seed extract , acidophilus daily for the next 3 months . Or you could wind up with another system imbalance to deal with as your chemistry is put out of kilter by antibiotics in a certain way . Food is the highest order of medicine , herbs are the next highest , and these extracts should be treated with the respect and consideration one would any powerful treatment . They are not all harmless when abused . They are FAR less harmful , than their patentable , profitable , drug counterparts .

You are talking about Insurance, which is a business.
I'm talking about Medicine, which is a science.

Your argument applies just as much to alternative medicine- if you don't have any money, then no alternative practitioner will see you either.

You seem to think Science is a corporation. It's not. It's a process of testing, validating, and documenting information. That's all.

It just makes more sense to go with medical procedures that have been tested and validated then ones that have not. As I said, it's your best bet to survive.

Not really, no.

Of course there are illnesses that are still incurable.

But your best bet is still science, not magic.

I love honey. I buy 5 gallons of raw honey about twice a year. It also works on open wounds and helps the goldenseal go down.

To your last point because it is very important. When treating with Pharma drugs doctors have tons of leeway. First they do not have a name for all the problems they treat. Treating symptoms by "lets see if this helps" is not proven science. IT is the Practice of medicine and people die as a result. Their death is not chalked up to the drug being wrong the cause of death will be laid at the feet of what ever ailments that the doctor decides the person had.

I am saying that they get to dodge a lot of responsibility when it comes to drug treatments.

It may be yours but not mine. It seems to me that anyone who has gone to collage should be able to read and research alternative medicine. One more time for you. People need to be Proactive in their own health care. Its your f-ing body Learn what is best for it.

I agree.
And if you actually do study these "alternative medicines", you will notice something:

No double blind studies.
No control groups.
No comparisons against placebo.

in other words, no attempt to actually verify their claims scientifically.

Yes, you SHOULD be proactive in your own heath care.
That means not falling for quackery.

I think you're making a rather large error in distinguishing between detection rates vs incident rates. While we've been aware of breast cancer for a substantial amount of time, effective methods of detection, wide spread screening practices, and treatment weren't developed until recently. Hence, we see more cases of breast cancer now than we did in the past because we identify more cases that would have been simply overlooked. That said the US does have a higher rate of breast cancer than other developed nations, which deserves attention.

I was able to find a study where I believe your grapefruit seed extract claim originated. It was a very limited study of 10 people (2 people in the study had a positive reaction), which isn't large enough to draw any meaningful statistical conclusions and the study wasn't properly controlled. Most of the study actually centered on in vitro studies, which aren't directly applicable to humans although they showed promise.

I also found several studies that tried to verify the first study, their conclusions however suggest that the week positive results were due to contamination from the extracting process with a synthetic preservative (Benzethonium chloride). Pure GSE had no positive effect and most commercial GSE is contaminated.

The conclusion I would personally draw would be to stay away from GSE, especially since it's essentially completely unregulated so you have no idea what you're being sold.

In order to be approved for human trials all medication should have to go through extensive animal testing to be shown it's effective and safe before it can be tested on humans. Medicine is a very imperfect science and it aggravates me to no end as an engineer, still you do the best you can with analogs, statistics, and mechanisms by which medications can be effective.

Still if anyone is doing what you say, I believe they would be breaking the law. If someone is cheating or breaking the law they should be punished and that practice should be ended. Although I believe all alternative/complimentary treatments need to be held to the same standard.

In the twentyish years I have known of it , it has saved my life at least twice , and really helped a few others . One time ,when 3 rounds of antibiotic drugs FAILED to clear out my lungs from infection . Yes , this is anecdotal . I have only used it as a last resort . It has not failed me yet . I do get guidance from a alternative practitioner .

Excellent video.
People don't realize how good we have it now.
Anti-intellectualism, nostalgia, fear of science are destroying us- both from the left and the right.

Conservative anti-intellectualism is well known, and frequently discussed, but Liberals are guilty of it too.

The hatred of Genetically Modified foods is a huge example. There is nothing innately wrong with genetically modifying food. We will be able to design fruits and vegetables that will grow in arid soil, have faster growth rates, produce more nutritious food, and last longer after being picked.

This is all good. Yes, the corporations are evil, but that's not the issue.

Like he said, ALL of the food we eat is genetically modified, and we have been modifying our foods since the very first farms existed.

Thank you for the post. The speaker had some very important messages about using science in determining our future. Education and sanitation are as responsible as medicine for human life span. Unfortunately science takes money and without it accurate information on all sorts of alternative medicines is unavailable. The drug companies do promote disinformation so they can be uninhabited in peddling their product.

Having a stake in the outcome of science is not true science. Having the money to push your science is not the same as peer reviewed science. OH AND THE SECRETS OF THE DRUG FORMULAS make it impossible to check drug pushers.

We must embrace real science which tells us that poison is bad for our bodies and proper nutrition is good. There is an incredible link between cancer and food.

Genetically modified seeds with insecticides scare the shit out of me. Insects are pollinators and anything that threatens the natural balance of food pollination is bad. Science has helped us dominate the planet to the point of assured nuclear destruction something we couldn't do one hundred years ago.

I do not call this progress.

Most of the newer research into insecticides target specific species- they ones that damage the crops- and not the pollinators.

Some of them simply stop the dangerous insects from being able to breed.

Yes, science brought us the bomb, which we did not have a hundred years ago.

It also brought us penicillin, TV, radio, the internet, MRI machines, chemotherapy, and all kinds of other GOOD things we did not have a hundred years ago.

And it will bring us nanobots, a cure for cancer, a cure for the aging process, the ability to teraform the Moon and Mars, non-polluting energy sources, and the ability to mass-produce anything we want instantly from waste materials.

I call this progress- progress is not perfection. You have to take the good with the bad, but overall, there is a WHOLE LOT more good than bad.

That depends where you live on this rock. Science benefits the wealthy the most. That is perhaps 10% of the population. Science has put many a person out of work.

You are full of programed shit and are not seeing the whole picture.

Seen it . Arrogant and completely lacking in scientific curiosity . Propaganda .

Wow, temper temper- and the irony is that you are the one filled with "programmed shit" and not seeing the whole picture.

Repeatedly, you confuse science with business, and blame science for business.

No, your statement "science benefits the wealthy the most" is false.
EVERYTHING benefits rich people the most.
THat's because they have access to more things, including the best things.
And science produces those best things.

One of the great things science does, is it constantly improves, and the technology based on science constantly gets faster and cheaper. That means what was only available for the rich, over time becomes available to the poor.

Thanks to science, there are mass-produced vaccines and other medicines shipped to Africa every day.

Thanks to science, we have the "$100" laptop program to get third-world children on the internet.

As the video showed, thanks to science, the average African today lives as long as a wealthy European 100 years ago.

AGAIN- please abandon your preprogrammed shit- SCIENCE does not put people out of work. Society evolves thanks to science, and some jobs are no longer needed.

That's like saying you should stop using email because the letter carriers have less to do.

Honestly, are you thinking about what you are writing, or are you just having an emotional reaction?

How is it possible for an anti-science luddite to be using the Internet and not grasp the blatant hypocrisy of that?

I am not anti science I am anti asshole. Go bite yourself somewhere else you are off topic.

Well let's see:

I've been nothing but polite to you, then you say "You are full of programed shit" to me, so that makes me an asshole.

You talk about your fears of the bomb, so I discuss vaccines shipped to Africa, and you say I'm off the topic, which is "Mainstream Medicine".

I'll tell you what- I will take your immature outburst as your apology for introducing foul language and insults into what was a polite conversation.

I will also take it as the best you can to admit that you were wrong, and that you have learned a greater appreciation of logic and reason over ignorance and fear.

You are welcome.

I love science. It is being practiced all the time by those who observe the systems of life. You really need not be a scientist. I am glad to be sorry for all the harsh and hateful things that I have said. Peace

Thank you- I did not expect a reply like that.
It's quite rare.

Did you know the drug companies now fund most of the research done , even in respectable colleges ? If those researchers don't deliver , do you think they will get funded ever again ? Why was VIOXX proven safe , right before it began to kill ? Either you are far too trusting or deliberately ignorant .

Well, the conversation with treewolf ended nicely- she was rude, but then apologized.

You have obviously not learned from our conversation.

I am not being too trusting or deliberately ignorant- you are lacking in reading comprehension.

As I wrote rather clearly, and repeatedly, don't confuse the topics of Science and Corporations.

Yes, Corporations are evil, nasty things from the bowels of hell.

Science is NOT a corporation. Science is a process. It is a process of step-by-step analysis and validation of information. Yes, humans do this process, and humans can be corrupted by all kinds of things. Humans can even make mistakes.

But, so called "Alternative Medicine" has not even been through the process at ALL. Those vitamins, food supplements, drugs, and procedures make all kinds of claims with absolutely no way to verify them. Natural pharmaceuticals, being natural, can vary immensely in the amount of active ingredients in them based on the growth cycle.

No, I did not say Alternative Medicine has not passed through some corporate system so it's not OK.

No, I did not say because traditional Medicine HAS passed through some corporate system THAT makes it OK.

What I said is that Science is a process of verifying. Even with the most corrupt of companies and awful outcomes that occur from time to time, the process itself WORKS. It is the ONLY process we have to verify claims.

Alternative Medicine is completely unverified.

And, since you dislike corporations, Alternative Medicine and their outlandish claims are ALSO big business, filled with shady characters who want to make a buck off of your gullibility and your inherent distrust of "the system".

The video clip included in this thread called them "Big Placebo", after "Big Pharma".

I just call them what they have been called for centuries- Snake Oil Salesmen.

... and the irony of YOU calling ME "too trusting" and "ignorant" when I'm talking about verifying claims while you blindly trust in propaganda is not lost on me.

http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0042-96862008000800011&script=sci_ar... Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years . Aurvedic medicine too . The native americans europeans all have some good to teach us , and we are just scratching the surface of south america . If science were free to investigate it as justifiably should be done , people like you would not fear it . NIH-http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/herbalmedicine.html Consider all the drugs we take for granted that came from plants . Asprin (white willow bark ) Digitalis , valium , opioids , ect .... This research is NO LONGER mainstream . Science is not being done . Promotion of drugs is . Big difference . You have the right to your own opinion and the right to be rude . This will not change the facts . If drugs help you . I wish you luck .

I am very sorry you did not understand what I said.

Yes, I know alternative medicine has been around for thousands of years.
So has the concept that diseases are caused by evil spirits.

Yes, there are many new medicines to be found in plants used by native populations. That's why the scientific process should be used to investigate them.

No, I do not fear alternative medicine. I fear for people who blindly jump to alternative medicines just because they have been in use a long time, but have not been scientifically verified.

Yes, there are many drugs that came from plants. Those plants were examined with the scientific process, and verified to be medicinal.

This is not about research being "mainstream" or not "mainstream". THis is not about corporations or brand names.

AGAIN: Science is a process.
It is the ONLY process we have to verify claims.

Alternative Medicine is not called "Alternative Medicine" because it comes from smaller independent companies- like "Alternative FIlms" or "Alternative Music".

Alternative Medicine is called Alternative Medicine because it has NOT BEEN VERIFIED.

Science is good.
I never said plants are not good.
I said blindly believing claims that have not been verified is not good.

I posted links , above to the National institute of Health and the world health organization . Some research has been done . You may want to check it out before labeling something as untested . An herbal remedy can be obtained from a doctor in Europe . THEY know how to use them . Profit stands in the way of things like that here . Unless you actively seek these options out , they will not be mentioned .

I see you have your doctor hat on this morning. Education again is the key to health. Good or bad habits start when we are children. Your so right about people not listing, but there are 10s of millions of people in america who have no idea they are eating poison everyday.

Chemotherapy is not always the best answer; say if you are already fairly close to death. I am very very interested in the use of concentrated THC to repair mutating cells.

I would like to see insurance companies completely out of medicine. They only add to the cost.

Lastly our medical system is not a choice for 45 million Americans and that did not get fixed last month by passing socialized mandatory insurance.

I completely agree if someone is in stage 3 or 4 cancer and there is little chance of survival, or the person doesn't want the quality of life while trying to live on chemotherapy. They have hospice care that is free to anyone who asks for it and will die within the near future. They have Fentanyl lollipops, morphine, and Drobinal (THC made in lab). The Drobinal (Marinol) does have a side effect of headaches though.

Poison is correct. The water isn't as clean as people think. The foods we consume are filled with red dyes and chemicals that are not natural. Are food is so processed in America that we are getting fat, heart disease and numerous other problems. I would be curious to see if other nations of the world have our cancer rates?

I have never read about any studies with THC about their effect on mutating cells. The radiation destroys all rapidly producing cells. The chemicals now attack specific types of cells and genetic markers. They have come a long way since the 60's.

Insurance companies are almost a necessary evil. I would like them to be out of the healthcare business as well. However, people can't afford healthcare without it though. Doctors do not make enough as it is compared to what they do and investment bankers and lawyers. So the costs can literally bankrupt a family, and death is the only thing that the poor can afford.

I am glad you put a number on it, 45 million people still don't have insurance. I was not quite sure how many were without it still. Somehow it is worse in my mind if children do not have access to care. Then we don't care if they are adults. So many other countries in teh world have better overall healthcare as a nation. We are relatively low on the worlds charts.

Doctors do not make enough as it is compared to what they do and investment bankers and lawyers. So the costs can literally bankrupt a family, and death is the only thing that the poor can afford. COME ON NOW! Life is not judged by the fucking money that lawyers and bankers steal. Insurance is a scam. People are losing everything with it.

After a year of debate about nothing real. We are left with a slightly better and more expensive system then before. I am of the opinion that the states need to handle their own healthcare. Most of the countries we measure ourselves against are much smaller in population and land mass.

Recently I saw a picture from my 20 year class reunion. 90% were well overweight. I didn't eat the school lunches. Sack lunch. Adams peanut butter and honey on wholewheat bread everyday.

Voted up !

And another: http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocument...

and light on the stress, heavy on the herb.

The drug companies need to be taken to court and prosecuted for death and illness. Snake Oil sales people on a whole new level. My personal favorite are side effect drug sales.