After Cutting Little Girls' Clitorises, Ivy League Doctor Tests Handiwork With a Vibrator

Yep, my friend did that, unfortunately they reattached it to his nose. But, we know the state of health care nowadays. You can't expect miracles.

I sincerely hope he takes the time to Properly respond. This article is really a big deal, as much as calling him a monster, and in a place where thousands if not more people will likely see it.

The same could be said for penises until they become so large that sex becomes impossible. Some guys have penises so large they literally cannot get an erection because they just don't have enough blood in their bodies. There's a documentary on the famous porn actor John Holmes where his genitalia is described and apparently for him it was only barely possible. IIRC the quote was "he never actually got hard. It was squishy like a loofa" or some such.

It's all a question of degree. In general though I agree with you.

"can you show me a case study where a girl or inter-sexed person's clit has become "so large that sex becomes impossible"?"
I was using this merely as an illustration of the degree of morphology that may exist, but specifically no, not because it does not exist but because photos of that nature cannot be posted on this site. Hove I previously seen pictures of women with clitoris so large they completely fill the vaginal opening? yes. In a college biology text iirc. I'm sure such photographs are widely available on the net, but you will have to find them yourself.

"you keep bringing them up as a description for problems women are having as if it makes you an expert."
I have never claimed to be an expert on this subject. Nor are you I am fairly sure. If you want to get into some kind of contest as to who has seen the most punammi on display I respectfully decline to do so.

When we get into these little flame wars as we seem to so often do, and I sound like an expert while you sound like a rube it is generally because I have been more likely to use the little google bar to check my sources than you. I have neglected to do so occasionally and it has bitten me in the ass just as hard as it has you. Ambily recently took me to the cleaners a day or two ago for example. I didn't check the background on a white supremacist up for murder and conflated him with my memory of an earlier similar instance and wound up looking like a total knob.

I brought up male issues because I happened to have an actual life example readily available. As a male in this society, even merely mentioning the fact that young girls even have genetalia is quite a dangerous thing to do. I am not about to go hunting about on the net for examples thankyouverymuch. Adult male genitalia is an entirely different matter so discussing something like John Holmes' particulars is not a social issue. Incidentally I suggest you do not do so either. Having now mentioned you have previously had sex with women you are now in the same boat as us guys.

Yes, they are truly awesome. I am glad to see someone acknowledge that fact.

I heard a Dr. drew show once where the guy was saying that his penis was so large that he was still a virgin in his mid- twenties, because no girl would try to take him. He'd even gone to a prostitute once, with the same, but ruder, results. (of course, who knows if this is actually a true story, but it's definitely feasible...)

Yikes!

I am reminded of another film, This one called "Crumb". Also a biographical documentary, (I kind of like biographical documentaries and all that history channel NPR type stuff) As is revealed in the film, the world famous cartoonist in question also has a huge and bizarrely shaped member which has made him a performer in porn movies as well. he according to his drawings was built a lot like one of those soccer trumpets everyone is complaining about, and again according to his drawings, was sometimes incapable of penetration.

John, just might have had a slight drug problem that would interfere with his circulation. It is possible.

Stupid question of the day award goes to....

What is this IIRC that you all keep mentioning?? ::erf::!!

OMG!! So THAT'S why the Hulk is always so pissed off! ::laughing::

(Good one Julius!!)

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly. It's one of those standard internet initialisms. I'm sure there's a list of them somewhere on the net.
I use it to mean something I remember, but did not actually just look up, Therefore it may be wrong.

I have the same question about erf actually. this is whatr I got, but none of them make sense.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Ax3&rls=org.m...

He's green with envy and frustration I'm sure.

The biggest one I ever saw in person was 7 inches in circumference and 10 inches in length. That is bigger than a 2 liter bottle of Pepsi.

Thanks much bomb! 8^)

yer very welcome. So what does erf mean BTW?

0.o (owieowieowie) on a human?

I don't remember us meeting,"Jubal"!

couldn't find it out of 4 different Internet slang sites! I, personally use it as an interchangable word with, "duh".... hehehe! ;)

wait -- are you talking a clitoris???
no way....poor woman!

MOOOOOON!!! i was drinking and you made me choke on my water! maaaan!!!

LoL moonloon, you must be a god where you live...HAHAHAHAHAHA

No a penis silly.

I suspected that everyone would get a laugh out of my comment. but, you in particular.
Yo buddy, Moon

Well said !

SO NOT trying to bicker with you, but... I DO!! I'm **so girly** it's disgusting!! ::laugh:: I love being a woman, love everything about it! I'm very feminine, I love all the stereotypical female things: lace, ruffles, pink, long fingernails, giggling, using "feline wiles", make up, clothes must all match, down to underwear & bra—all those kinds of things. My mom loves sports, and played them all her life. Not me: what if I break a fingernail? OH NO, God Forbid!! 8^>
And I just don't understand - one guy chases a ball all the way down to one end of the field, only to have it kicked or thrown back to to other end...repeat until game over?! Huh?! ::shaking head:: Total waste of energy, if you ask me! HAHAHA!!! (sorry - no offense intended to any sports fans....I just don't get it, personally!). Although Hockey is kinda sexy to watch....

Please see my reply to moonloon.

I agree! Actually, I don't see now this is even *legal* here?! Is there anyone who is willing/able to look it up? It seems to me that this is a case of mutilation—and on a minor, no less! This MUST break some sort of law?

Anyone?

Ok, got a question. If a junior high school girl goes to her first day of Gym class and when she goes to the shower she has what appears to be male genitalia, what is going to happen to her? What kind of names is she going to be called? Would it be worse or beteer than say, a boy who has fully formed breasts? Or perhaps a third nostril?

I can understand legitimate surgery in extreme cases. However, The article was not clear what is considered in the normal range and hopefully the parents have all consulted with other physicians. As I have posted before my childhood neighbor has undergone sex change surgery and his family and my family refer to him as a her, now.But that was his choice as an adult. Living in Nigeria; I have had several woman friends that have undergone forced clitorectomy's as children and it is a personal issue for me. I have also, had many lovers in my years and can testify that there is a very wide variation in female genitalia, but I have yet to meet someone that needed clitoril reduction surgery, in my non-medical opinion. I question doing it to girls, when certainly no such surgery would ever be done to a boy. If this is a common problem then there must be an organic cause for the problem, and the root cause needs to be identified, rather than implementing a cosmetic fix. I will except cases of an Amorhrodite(sp) individual.

"The article was not clear what is considered in the normal range and hopefully the parents have all consulted with other physicians."
Yes, that certainly is the major issue.

"Living in Nigeria; I have had several woman friends that have undergone forced clitorectomy's as children and it is a personal issue for me."
Wow. Yeah, no argument there, If this is not making the lives of these children better than it should not be done, and maiming sexual function definitely qualifies.

"but I have yet to meet someone that needed clitoril reduction surgery, in my non-medical opinion." Well, there's always the internet, land of wacky porn. I'm sure something could be found. I'm not going near it with my browser though. I guess we're back to point number 1.

"I question doing it to girls, when certainly no such surgery would ever be done to a boy."
True story:
I actually do have a male childhood friend who had breast reduction surgery in high school. he was very traumatized by the whole thing and attempted to reduce the fat area by doing over 1000 push ups a day. He looked pretty damn good after the surgery. All of a sudden he was ripped when before he just looked fat and girlish.
Men can be born with breast tissue. My uncle even got breast cancer.

"If this is a common problem then there must be an organic cause for the problem, and the root cause needs to be identified, rather than implementing a cosmetic fix."
Agreed. But it is a difficult sell when the horse has already left the gate. It's not like the thing would necessarily shrink up again by itself.

Yes, I totally understand what you're saying...however, I don't think that it really applies in this case, as (no offense!) I got the impression that •this• was pretty much about overly large clitorises...(clitori?) although, I could be wrong?
However, just to go on record, I'm all for *corrective* plastic surgery....as long as it's not just VANITY, but rather for reasons like you mentioned above.
I don't think the girl/s specified in the article are going to be showing there clitoris' around in the gym's shower...especially if they're of the Islamic/Muslim belief system. (being typically more modest than American women, for the most part...IMO anyway)

Hey, question: are Islam and Muslim the same religion? Or do they have differences? Is it like Catholic vs. Lutheran, or are the differences even more pronounced??

Hrmmmm.....something I've wondered about for a surprisingly long time, but never bothered to ask. Weird, huh?

So...It was my birthday yesterday, so you have to be nice to me! LOL!!!!! I turned 41......er, I mean 39!!!!! Yeah, that's what I meant to say, I turned 39... 'cause I'm counting backwards from now on! :: giggle:: So no one can be mean to me until tomorrow! Ok? LoL!

Happy Birthday!

•"don't think the girl/s specified in the article are going to be showing there clitoris' around in the gym's shower"•
That depends on how big it is. What if it, say protrudes out of their vagina and hangs down 4-6 inches between their legs when not erect and actually pointing straight out?

That's the problem with the article. The specifics are not described, just insinuated. This kind of surgery would be totally reasonable given appropriately disfiguring organ size and and/or appropriate age of the patient.

Without real numbers it is hard to make the kind of claims for summary imprisonment and execution that people are making here.

I'm actually tempted to call the guy's office and get the whole thing straightened out.

Based on this comment I would be willing to bet money you are not a parent.

As it happens in the case of the boy, which is real and discussed in my reply to moonloon, the boy desperately did not and was doing dangerous amounts of exercise in the hopes of reducing them.

Are YOU A parent , bomb ?

"So you're defending the massive amounts of female and intersexed genital mutilation..."
No, I'm saying that it might not actually be happening.

"...based on one of your friends who had extra chest fat?"
No. he had actual breast tissue. That's why frantic dieting and exercise didn't work.

"Want me to rattle off how many intersexed folks were mutilated and assigned a gender and sex they completely do not identify with?"
No mention of intersexed individuals was made in the article. You are making assumptions.

"Again, your comment supports kid91's comment that it should be up to the person who has the body part, not the doctor or parents."
Yes and no. I would say that, again it is situationally dependant. Though if the issue is not grotesque I would tend to agree.

"We need to stop giving into it and begin teaching kids to feel comfortable with their bodies."
We need to do a lot of things.

Ha! No. I'm still right though aren't I.

Your kid your call. It might very well be the same one I'd make. It's a big world though.

Thank you very much! :). ::curtsying:: hehehe!

And you also reinforced my point, or did I reinforced yours...? Regarding the fact that this type of "enlarged genital reduction" would never, ever be done to a man, no matter what culture or religion he came from! Instead, he would be admired, and coveted. (not by -this- particular woman, but you get my point....)

Questions for you:
1) how old were these girls in Nigeria who were forced to undergo this archaic deed? Are we talking babies? Or puberty age?
2) And who does these surgeries?
3)Also, I'm betting that they're not done because these women and overly large clitorises, but rather for religious purposes.... Am I correct?

Just curious

Really, REALLY glad I live in the USA! ::smile::

Thanks Moon

Um....holy crap! You DO make a good point there!

I say call him...get all the deets, then share with us! Good luck!

I totally agree with bomb on this...kids can be so incredibly cruel, and as a parent if its at all possible to fix their problem, you're going to.....especially when it's a cosmetic problem like this.

I agree with you that it is society's problem....HOWEVER, it's going to take •generations• for society to change—and that's assuming that it even ever WILL—and in the meantime, these poor children are suffering horribly when they don't have too. It's hard enough being a teen these days (I watch my son & his friends) without having something like a horrible, extremely noticeable deformity that serves to make you further outcast.

Not saying that "all should conform" by any means! But there is a big difference when you •choose• not to conform, and being shunned completely when all you want is to be accepted.

(remember-- This is mostly based on my opinion, so....). ;)

did, actually. I doubt much will happen. The article is apparently a repost of a review of a rewrite, so he's probably got bigger fish to fry. Most likely any information will come in the form of a a take down notice from his lawyers. We could get lucky though. i for one would like to know what is actually up.

dunno. If we're lucky maybe the dude will tell us. I did put a call in.

I don't think so . I think you just like to argue .

Most people don't .

The surgeon. I googled him and called his office. Gave his secretary the link.

re: thinking
Think what? this thread is getting unwieldy. I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Very good taking the initiative , I hope he gets back to you !

LOL I blame you not at all. I don't even remember them and i wrote them. This thread has gotten stupidly large.

Um....before you jump on me, read my post! I said, basically word for word what you just said above.
The "suffering" I was referring to was kids who are born with •severe deformities•, for example a cyst on the face that grows so big that it's difficult for the child to eat, or even breath at times, or as bomb mentioned: a 3rd nostril, and take a look the poor guy in the above pic that was posted...again, by bomb...just a couple of examples in thousands.

And speaking as a •girl•, I CAN, AND DO SAY that it would be uncomfotable as hell, if not down-right painful to have a clioris that long! It would be like walking around with the tip of your penis rubbing against tight underwear, very soon after you had just had an orgasm....verrrrrrrry sesitive! (no offense meant to anyone, just trying to get the men folk here to understand)

So, again, I understand when a person is involved in a back-and-forth debate with several people, it's hard to keep track...but seriously, before you jump, make sure that you're jumping at the right thing...and not at a person who is agreeing with you! :)

First if all, I would only do it if it was extremely severe, as discussed below. (pls read below before answering me!)
Secondly, if all the correct criteria were met, I would have it done while my child was still a toddler, thus having it all taken care of before s/he even •understood• the concept of "normal".... And taking care of any and all pain that comes from being severly different.

RIGHT ON, BOMB!!!! Very cool! Can't wait to hear what this guy has to say....now, don't go letting him off the hook, ya?! ;)

The operation is done in the village by older women, prior to puberty. Nigeria is approx. 50% Muslim and 50% Christian, but with a small % of animists that mix the beliefs of both Muslims and Christians. So I cannot really call it simply a Muslim activity, although by and large it is. My two friends were Christian. The clitoris and part of the outer labia are removed. The parents encourage the operation because a virgin girl brings a higher bride price and the operation definetly discourages extra marital sex. It is sickening and the women do not want to discuss it with a man. Infidelity is accepted from men, but strictly forbidden for women, although it sometime occurs, but not very often. The size of the clitoris has nothing to do with this practice, it is a form of mutilation and domination of women. It is a horrible practice.

...with all due respect...herein is where the problemo is...as stated, allegedy, by Dr Franken-Dix...to reduce the size, a portion has to be removed, and the tip re-assigned...now, mmmmm...this so called re-assigned tip has to be tested for sensitivity, as, (one would imagine, involve the reattachment of delicate nerves)...now, having read his methods of testing sensitivity, is where I become appalled...I quote..."a series of sensory followup tests involving Q-tips, their fingernails and vibrators..."...or, what if this procedure does not all go according to plan ergo sensitivity based tip reassignment has failed...tragic...

...I still advocate that this be a decision made by the person who has this condition...

I suspect all he will do if anything is have the article pulled.

...or say he was misquoted...or, silence...thumbs up to you, my friend, for following this up...

I just re-read your post, and realized that we have the same opinion! ::smile:: here is the second half of what I wrote before I realized, & you'll see what I mean:

Look, I'm not saying this guy is right, I think he should be disbarred, and his methods are the stuff nightmares are made of. Actually, if there were any justice in this world, the procedure would be done to him, as close as it could be done to a man, so that he just "might", though doubtful, be able to understand what he's doing.
What I don't understand is why do these girls have to keep going back, & be exposed to this guy? With the vibrators, Q-tips and fingernail scrapping?? ::shudder:: (the whole fingernail thing makes me think of a dirty child molester!) Ok, he did his job, fixing the deformation (IF that's what it was in the first place) so *why* the experiments later? I just don't see the point...

Pretty similar, eh? Thanks for your polite debate of our opinions, by the way!

::swallows nauseously::
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. How sad. How sickening. The •reason• is almost as bad as the procedure. (not really, just making a point). And no offense to your friends, but for the parents' to do this to their daughters, just to get more of a bride-price is an abomination to me.... And to have grandma do it! Arg!

Thanks moon for taking the time to answer! :)

I will send you a message. JBC