Study shows Christian fundamentalists more likely to commit domestic abuse

Thank you for adding so much to the converstation.
Stupid ass atheist.

so when are you gunna turn on the jews. jk

he doesnt need to , you do a pretty good job of that yourself

For your information: I am not an Atheist at all and in fact pray daily! My issues is ORGANIZED RELIGION which brainwashes,dictates,and oppresses it's members personal freedoms! You don't need a church and phonies calling themselves clergy telling you what to believe,say,and do,in every aspect of your life! ORGANIZED Religion controls every aspect of a members life and that is wrong and ORGANIZED Religion always sides with the political oppressors! ORGANIZED religion is responsible for more atrocities against people throughout history then any other cause! I say ban it and allow people to make up their own minds on what to believe,or not to believe! So before you call me names my friend,unless you are completely brainwashed by some ORGANIZED Religion,give that fact some thought!

really?
cuz for m i have to log on, they havent intruded at all, i came to the site.
are they hiding behind your couch?

LOL

maybe some people are trying to figure out how to deal with people who deal in irrationality?

It's like this: If God (Reality if God is reality) is bigger than human understanding, then your idea is not God, not equal to God and therefore wrong - in other words, not God.
Or God would be equal to your idea. Your religious cosmology is, according to you, equal to God and equating God and the true cosmology.

You see? Religions say they know God, when their ideas are blatantly shallow, small and contrived.

Once understanding this, it is a violation of your very desire to know or to understand God, to continue with this stuff that you can easily see is simply wrong, however earnest you have held these beliefs.

As they violate the very subject of your hopes and prayers.

Either that or God is so small that you are actually right. But we both know that isn't true, yes?

I never said i fully know God, or we fully know God, i said the revelations basically that he sent explain partially who he is, what he created, and what he expects, but of course we as humans cannot "fully" comprehend God.

Understand, down inside, I'm not a jerk. :-} I do not hope to cause pain.

I do think humans suffer illusion because our little pea-brains think in illusion - we draw little pictures of the world and we think by measuring and weighing our little pictures of the world, our little tinker-toy drawings. It is easy to know this by shutting our eyes and asking what it is that we are actually thinking and remembering.

We see the world but when you ask yourself how it is that we can see things the way we do, it becomes clear that just outside our eyes is a blaze of radiation - that lands in our eyes and we create the pictures we are used to thinking is the world.

But then, also, a little time expended will tell us the world, the universe is way, way more than the little ideas we have and have been creating in our minds for ourselves.

The universe is bigger than our mental pictures, extending all the way through to the cosmology, whatever that has been, that we have become used to thinking is the world.

A little observation will inform any of us, that our ideas need fundamental improvement to even become a little more relevant.

And people who have come to religion or any belief system, do, in fact, want to know. They do, in fact want to discover and understand.

But usually, in a time of non-understanding, it is an easy habit for anyone to expand from their immediate past and to then think they have had revelation or epiphany; - when really, they have simply taken the first step.
The bad habit is holding to that - as it quickly becomes an anchor holding them into a quickly ensuing past.

To have greater understanding, the first step is dropping one's past notions. Be they right, they cannot be lost.
But God must be bigger - and everyone's ideas, no matter the inspiration for having accepted them and the profound experience that has been attained in holding them, - God is somewhere else. Further up the staircase.

"further up the staircase"

You dont have to tell me that, as i know our creator is at the top of the chain. And yes i realize that our intelligence is insignificant compared to what is out there. The proof is how far we have come already and still dont know that much, but be aware God did not create this reality just for amusement. It is a test, im far from perfect, and it has shown in some of my post in the past week as i have been a bit aggressive at times, i just get frustrated with certain people who cant seem to pull the wool out from over their eyes. The basic message of God is to acknowledge him and what he has done for us, and to do good deeds, that is basically the gist of it. However WE choose not to follow that and follow what our own minds whisper to us. I do not believe in the original sin theory that would be unjust to punish us for what adam did, i do not believe there are evil fallen angels that invade peoples bodies physically forcing them to do things as that goes against free will, and i do not believe that an innocent man died for our sins as that is unjust as well. Matter of fact its beyond me how christians can believe that theory as even the bible clearly states that we are all ONLY repsonsible for our OWN sins, nobody else will answer for them.

I don't believe "original sin" the way you explained it, but that is not what it is.
God didn't punish man for Adams knowledge of good and evil, but this knowledge did cause seperation between God and man because of what we did with that knowledge - this seperation led to our mortality and all the problems in the universe.
Man was seperated from God not because of deeds but because of our perverted nature

The sacrifice of Christ was to bridge mans fallen imperfect nature with the perfect nature of God -- this was accomplished by God taking on that imperfect nature and perfecting it and overcoming mortality in our place.

Anyway to sum up -- Those in Christ are not judged by their deeds for their salvation, they are judged by HIS deeds and HIS sacrifice.

Well first, obviously you are a trinitarian christian, as you (judging by your post, i apologize if im wrong) think jesus is God.

The bible itself makes it clear that jesus was a man, first off how can God be his own son? Secondly God does not send an innocent man to be brutally tortured to death for the sins of man. Adam and eve chose to disobey thus condemning them to death, but in christian belief because of that decision, the rest of man is now condemned to death as that sin passed down the generations. This theory goes against free will, as it claims that we are all doomed because of one man and womans choice, i do not believe in that. If you havent been able to tell by now, i am a muslim. I am white, born and raised in america, christian most my life, (and im sure this will draw some attention from some of the commenters)

If what you say is true about the messiah, than what has changed? Man still sins, man will still be judged after resurrection for his deeds and faith. The bible is clear in james that its faith AND works, not just faith alone, and the Quran fully backs this up. The Quran is very clear that we are only responsible for our own actions (just as the Bible says) It is our faith in our creator, following his ways, doing good deeds, keeping up prayer, giving to the poor, repenting of sin, which will allow us forgiveness on judgment day.

To quickly add to this, go ask a jew, or a muslim if someone died for their sins, and you will find the answer is no. Ask a jew or muslim about the trinity and they will tell you there is no such thing. These 3 abrahamic faiths are all great, unfortunately man has managed to corrupt them. The jews allowed their rabbis to write other books alongside the torah/tannak called the talmud, which is full of evil,,,the muslims repeated this mistake allowing people to write what is known as the islamic hadith which have nothing to do with islam or the Quran unfortunately 90% of muslims believe these books are true, (same with the jews and the talmud) and with christians they dont realize that numerous different people wrote the gospels, there are over 70 total, and that the council of nicea added even more falsehood to this as they incorportated pagan roman beliefs into the story of the messiah which is where you get this (jesus is God,,,God is 3-1 trinity, and jesus died for man and rose 3 days later) That belief dates clear back to nimrod in babylon,,,,horus in egypt,,mithra in persia, and numerous other so called saviors (well before christ) who supposedly were Gods son, lamb of God, light of the world, died for sins, rose 3 days later ect ect.....Dont get me wrong, i believe in christ, it is a fundamental belief of a muslim to believe in ALL the prophets sent by God, but i do not believe he was God in the flesh, or that there is a trinity, nor that he died for our sins. He was the messiah to the jews, he was the last one sent directly to the jews to lead them back to the truth, but they for the most part denied him, and attempted to kill him. I do not believe that the man you call christ was literally crucified and killed.

you said

"Those in Christ are not judged by their deeds for their salvation, they are judged by HIS deeds and HIS sacrifice."

See what i mean, you are taking the burden of responsibility off yourself and placing it on another. Your saying that YOUR actions and deeds matter naught, only christs actions and deeds is what saves you. If this is true than why did the messiah not tell the wealthy man this when he asked what he must do to obtain everlasting life? Instead the messiah told him to "follow the commandments" and when the man said he had done that and wanted to know what to do to be perfect the messiah said "sell your things, and give to the poor and come follow me" No mention of anybody dying for anyone, he was telling the man to uphold the commands of God and do good deeds, and shun this worlds life.

Go ask a jew what the term "son of God" means. It means "servant" not literal son,,,if God had literal children than there would be more than one God which would cause total chaos, (like with the greek gods myth)

peace

Well - slow down, what you described is not Christian belief and neither it scriptural.
No where in scripture does God sentence man to death nor his offspring. Man lost his immortality because he became seperated from the source of life. Gen 6:3

The word sin is an ancient archery term meaning to "miss the mark" and is descriptive of mans condition in general and although it can apply to individual deeds that break the hebrew law, that is not what vexes man since breaking one hebrew law is the same as breaking them all.
Whats changed is that the messiah FULFILLED that law in our place.Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15. Those in Christ are not bound to this law.

The gospel of James does not say that IT(salvation) is faith and works, it says "ill show you my faith by my works". In other words -- my faith produces good deeds and that proves it is real.

And it saddens me to inform you that according to what you posted above -- You think the Christ's death was in vain and that someones works would save them.
Not according to scripture which says that "all our righteous acts are like filthy rags before a holy God"(Isaiah 64:6).

On the subject of the trinity -- yes there are no less than a hundred scriptures that affirm the Deity of Christ and this we know was an early church teaching as it was written about by Tertullian in 200ad.

Duh - the rich young ruler was under the hebrew law, same as Jesus.
In biblical times, Hebrews well understood that to be called the son of something meant that you had the same nature. Ex: judas was called the son of perdition, meant that he had this nature in him.
Beside that, Jesus refered to himself as Both the son of man and the son of God -- meaning He had the nature of both.

ever notice montesooma and jj are never at the same place at the same time

Mans responsibility for his deeds is what made the whole world foreign and seperated from God in the first place -- if we are still reliant on our deeds, then Christ died in vain and we indeed are still lost.
The whole book of Romans spells this out.

::giggle::

I think you must have read the misspelled version. I think it says something to the effect you are saved by grace but without works it is dead.

I believe the whole concept was that all of mankind would be lost had he not given his life on the cross. But giving his life on the cross was actually only a small part of the plan. He descended into hell for three days and three nights to suffer the buffetings of Satan. When he ascended from hell, this is when he broke the chains or bonds of death and this was the most vital part of all.

He broke the chains of death thus saving us from supposed eternal doom. Supposedly, the earth was lost to Satan when Adam and Eve fell out of grace in the Garden of Eden. They were cast out and Satan became ruler of the world. I forget all of the locations in the Bible but this is eluded to when he is referred to as the Prince of Persia and/or the prince of the air in Ephesians 2:2, and Daniel 10:13, 21, and St. John 12:31. Then take a look at James 2:17-26 as to the need for our deeds and not just our faith in the gift of Christ to be saved.

The earth and all who would come to it would be lost to the Prince of the air or Satan. In order to break these bonds or chains of death it was required for a man to do it since it had all been lost by a man (Adam). The reason Christ was chosen to do this by dying on the cross was because he was of a virgin birth by immaculate conception wherein he was essentially half man and half God. Essentially, this satisfied the requirement of a man to redeem that which was lost by Adam but to break the chains or bonds of death only a God had the power to do so. This twist was overlooked by Satan. Judas was tempted into betraying Christ as Satan believed that by destroying the Son of God then all would be lost for mankind. In actuality, this is what set God's plan into action. In the end, the bonds of death were broken and Satan's hold along with it. This is how Satan was defeated by Christ and mankind was saved by this gift of Christ. Mankind was no longer condemned to the depths of eternal hell with out any means of escape. But again, faith without works is dead.

So if we are all truly saved without works or deeds, then lets just have a free for all and God bless anarchy as we all revert to animals since there is no price or penalty for that which we do. That would be totally contrary to the whole purpose of our existence.

I have noticed that but I thought it was attributed to them being Siamese twins sharing the same brain.

I'm not religious, but I think this dialogue is fascinating.
I love religious history.

Yay, lets throw a party. Mayhem, carnage, and any form of mischief we can muster, drinking, wild women and song for tomorrow we die and it doesn't matter. We will not be judged for it nor will we have to pay. Lets all meet at Montesooma's house we will divide and conquer from there.

This reminds me of a joke I heard sometime ago:
A man named Monty died and went to Heaven. He was met at the Pearly Gates by Peter. After answering all of the questions asked of him he was allowed to proceed through the gates. Peter told Monty he would escort him to his place in the Kingdom. Along the way, a cloud with ten naked ladies floated by. These ten ladies were standing single file one behind the other. The one in the back was kicking the one in front of them as was the next and the next and so on. Monty thought this to be rather strange but shrugged it off. A bit later, this same cloud floated by again in the opposite direction and all of the naked ladies had turned 180 degrees such that the ones that had been doing the kicking were now being kicked by those whom they had kicked. At this point, Monty was dying of curiosity as to what in Heaven was going on. He inquired of Peter. Peter chuckled and said: Ahh, those are the "ten virgins," they just found out that we don't keep records up here.

No we are not lost, we are simply responsible for our actions.

who is jj??

He referred to himself as the son of man because he literally was the son of man. He referred to himself as the son of God, because in jewish terms he was "Gods servant" It doesnt matter if the man was under jewish law, he asked the messiah how to obtain everlasting life, so why didnt the messiah tell him "you must believe that im going to die for you"??

Righteous acts are like filthy rags for two reasons, either they have no faith, or they are only doing good deeds for greedy purposes. Isaiah was well before christ.

I didnt say his death was in vain, i said i dont believe he ever died on that cross to begin with I believe he was saved from it and it only appeared to the jews and romans that they had killed him. You arent reading your bible you are letting others read it for you as proven by your statement about "it was written about by Tertullian in 200ad." Who cares what he wrote, read the scripture, not his opinion. Acts 2:22 should clear that up for you. And if that dont then ask yourself why "god in the flesh" as you say, clearly says he has a God. He clearly says he serves the will of another. He clearly says he has no power on his own. He clearly says "why do you call me good, there is only one that is good, God" Clearly says he only does what God commands him. These are not things that God would say, besides that God is not born by his own creation, nor does he die, let alone allow his own creation to murder him, that is obsurd.

acts 3:13The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.

How is God his own servant?

ezekial 18:20The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

21"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.

acts 2:22"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth WAS A MAN ACCREDITED BY GOD to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

surah (chapter) 4:157And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

159And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.

Jesus in the bible himself proclaimed that on judgment day he will disown or stand as a witness against many people.

If you want to take it further, when jesus "supposedly died" why in the gospels did the stone need removed to let him out? Why was he still in the flesh bearing the wounds of the cross? Why was he hiding himself as a gardner? Why was he hungry asking for food? This does not sound like the actions of a man who just rose from the grave getting ready to ascend to heaven, he would have no need to hide himself as the jews wouldnt be able to kill him again. You are following the teachings of paul the false self proclaimed apostle who flat admits in his writings that he lied and used trickery to convert people.

peace

I wonder who quotes the bible more, you or your local disgraced Catholic priest. Either way you both quote the bible, huh.

Listen you two - you guys, and most religious people, just can not get it in your head that you are not the whole point of the whole universe. You seem to think the world was made just for you - and so, go right on along thinking this stuff, -that God made the world for you and as a test to possibly assuage your wayward ways. But your deviation from pure goodness was just a quick artifact of your youth, it was just part of your growing up - and regardless, whether you are living up to everything mommy said you should to be or whether you hang by your feet from fruit trees, blowing bubbles, the universe (which absolutely must be considered when talking about the nature of God) we now know is 100% bigger than the considerations that all religions have based their teachings upon.
So gigantically bigger, that 'reality' - or God - is simply bigger than your appreciations and the whole of what you believe. Entirely.

And, of course, it would be so - or it wouldn't be God; as you surely must acknowledge.

But you will not let go of these ideas you found, even though what you have placed your faith to, you can easily see must necessarily fall short. - Your ideas fall short of the God you have been hoping to know.

In other words, as long as your visions of God are entirely not God - you are entirely believing in a false God - the God of your conceptions, that you have given yourself to is definitely false - as it definitely falls entirely short of reality.

It becomes a God of self-service.

If you wish to honor God, you better start getting with it - and unfortunately, that means dropping the God of the herd.

It's like having been sucked up into believing the God of freeway gridlock.

I mean compared to GOD! - religions are beginner's stuff and, wrong. Believing in religion is anti-God. That's the horrid truth. Look at all the evil that has been created with it. All over the world, all through history.

Is the point of your beliefs just your ego? That's it? If you claim to have any respect for notions of God, at all, ya better get yourself turned around. That's the best advice you'll ever encounter in your life.

Yes - faith without works is dead - in other words a faith without works is a dead faith and is based on nothing. A real faith in God leads to works.
There are different degrees of reward for works AFTER salvation, but works do not earn salvation it is a GIFT.
In Rev. the works are tested by fire to see if they are made of gold or of stubble, but the person doing the works is saved none the less.

People who are born again and regenerated with a divine spirit do not revert to animals and yes there is a penalty for what we do -- but that penalty has already been paid.

Consider the criminal on the cross who went to the paradise side of hades with Christ who was neither baptised nor did any good work.

Also consider the parable of the worker who on the last day receives the same pay as the workers who had worked all along.

And by the way - Christ was fully man and fully God as these are natures (essence) not a substance that can be poured and measured.

The earth was given to man and he shall inherit it forever, Lucifer and his angels only became rulers of it by deception,

Well I don't think you have been reading my posts because you have me confused with someone that i have been conversing with.
Yes, our universe is but a small part of the creation and yes our finite knowledge of God is small considering who He is.

Dabo, I cannot even begin to discuss this with you because we are not talking about the same things.
Your basic knowledge of the gospel might as well come from Patrick Star because that is how wack it is.
ex: you say the stone was rolled away to let Jesus out -- this is totally fiction.

See what you did there? You switched the meaning of "son of" for your convenience.
Christ was not inconsistent as you are - He had the nature of Both God and man.
Even refered to himself as "I Am" and the jews tried to stone him because they KNEW what He was saying.
I could grocery list scriptures on the Deity of Christ but I am not going to because that is the least of problems with your biblical knowledge.

I don't know who the priest is but i am a protestant and have a deep disrespect for the wolves that came into the early church and perverted the gospel and is single handedly responsible for the worlds misunderstanding of Christ and His message.

I have to agree with you with most of what you have said here. Mankind has the tendency to assume they are the main and only focus of God. When you look at the size of space there is an astronomical likelihood there are other life forms out there. The chances of many of these life forms to be far more advanced than we are is only logical. Religion is archaic and stagnates the imagination of so many. We assume that all higher evolved beings are made in the image of God and we assume that it must be like us. This is most likely not true either.

Ego is truly a poison and is the basis of most religions. As science discovers more we find out how complex things really are just here on our own planet.

Space has no beginning and no end so how much can actually be out there? It is incomprehensible but so many of us fool ourselves into believing we can wrap up this comprehension by the means of a little book or books written by a collection of men a couple thousand years ago. I believe earth is most likely a young planet and we perhaps are one of the lesser developed species of those in existence.

The Cambrian explosion is when most if not all life forms made their appearance. This far out dates the Bible by about 530 million years. Logic would indicate if this was of God's hand then he is quite old, much more than 530 million years. If we allow ourselves to jump past the confines of religion and use our minds and imaginations, wouldn't it be possible that the reason all of these life forms made their appearance all at once was because they were transplanted from some other planet? What if this has been done a trillion times over the last trillion years? This may insult the egos of many but what makes it so impossible? Religion? Self importance of ego? Delusion? We are currently doing all we can to figure out how to travel through space and with some success. In time I believe we will find away to jump through space whether it be through worm holes or some other means. Look how far our technology has come in the last couple of centuries. What we can do now comes straight out of a science fiction novel from years gone past.

Religion... BAH!
Having said that, I do believe in a higher entity or entities and for the sake of argument I will call them, him or her, God. I sincerely believe, religion is the apple being peddled by the serpent!

So if what you just stated: "People who are born again and regenerated with a divine spirit do not revert to animals and yes there is a penalty for what we do -- but that penalty has already been paid."

If this is true then why are you so hell bent on trying to change our minds on what we think or believe? If all of the penalties have been paid for what ever we do then your efforts to try to convert us is of no value. We are already saved, the debt has been paid and all is and will be well with us. When the end comes we will all sit at the right hand of God eating fish and bread. So don't worry be happy, your work here is done since it was never needed in the first place. Remember, the debt or penalty was paid long ago, so might I suggest, set back and take a breather from your self appointed crusade and let well enough alone since your efforts have no meaning. We are all ready saved.

Lets all head to the beach and I will buy little drinks with umbrellas in them for everyone. Lets party!

I already know im not the center of the universe, so direct that statement towards someone else.

"Christ was fully man and fully God "

God is not a man. But out of curiosity can you tell me why (God as you say) ran from the jews everytime they picked up rocks to stone him?

Totally fiction? Where is your proof? Every gospel account (which they all differ as to who was there and what they seen) says the stone was rolled away.

As for my knowledge of the gospel being wack as you say,,,well opinions vary,,you would be wise to read it for yourself instead of letting other humans influence what you "think" those verses mean. Dont go around the topic, we are discussing the same thing, Is jesus God, and did he die for sins.

Simple - His time was not yet and His destiny unfolded according to very old prophecies.
This is the reason He spoke in parables and only revealed who He was to a select few - who by the way Still didn't comprehend it.

All this has been done to restore a relationship to our maker.
Despite what has been done, many will be outside the golden city throwing rocks at it and cursing God because they view humanism as the ultimate power (pride).
The party is coming but it is a little farther down the road.

The gospels tell different viewpoints of the same thing.
When the stone was rolled away, there was nobody inside -- just the shroud.

i switched nothing, in jewish terms son of God, means servant of God. If you dont want to believe that, than that is on you.

He had the nature of man and God,,,well what was his Godly nature? If you are going to say "oh but he did miracles, he raised the dead" dont bother as other prophets did miracles, Elijah raised the dead, Elisha fed people, Moses split the sea, and ushered forth water from a rock, are they all God too? The trinity as i said earlier is babylonian doctrine and you cant even see that. The problem is you WANT it to be true that an innocent man died for your wicked actions, and that is as far from the truth as it gets. Im not trying to sound insulting but frankly that is sick to wish and hope somebody else died for your evil crap.

And with the I am statement, you need to go recheck the original greek meaning of that translation as you will find it doesnt mean exactly what you think it does.

As for your statement of the jews "knowing what he was saying" are you saying they realized he was God? If so why would the jews try to stone God,,and why would God hide himself from them? This is just absurd, but yet my take on the gospels is whack (as you say) your take is from man, mine is not. And if you didnt notice yet in the gospels the jews were always making false accusations against the messiah so they could discredit him and accuse him of blasphemy so they could kill him..

Matt 21:11The crowds answered, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee."

luke 24:19What things?" he asked. "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.

mark 6:4Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

john 6:14After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world."

matt 21:46They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

Ive given you proof from YOUR own book, multiple verses showing you that you are commiting idolatry by worshiping a man that God sent as God himself,and this is why the messiah will disown you on judgment, i dont say this to argue and be right, i say this because you are in manifest error, and the Quran tells me to not conceal the truth, and to confront falsehood with the truth. But i am nobodies guardian,,only God can guide, and that is only if YOU choose to be guided. What you think is the truth, and what really is the truth are two different things. Just cause you want it to be true doesnt make it so.

peace

Nature is not what you do, it is what you are. I am pretty sure that you and i have a 100% human nature.
If you go back and read the passage, the jews said "you being a man make yourself EQUAL to God" -- this is why they sought to stone HIm.
I am not denying that He was a prophet but you seem to insinuate that a prophet can be nothing else only a prophet.
"Unless you believe that I AM, ye shall die in your sins"
"Before Abraham was, I AM"
etc etc

A man is insufficient as a perfect sacrifice to God, Immortality and Perfection had to walk in our place, escape death, and become the propitiation for sin.
This Is Scripture and the Whole theme of the bible from beginning to end -- any other conclusion is foolishness.

I notice that muhammad was not foolish enough to make a claim of being the "only name whereby men must be saved" or "The name to be exalted above every other name".

Jesus shall return to stand on the mount of olives where He will cause a great earthquake and the mount shall be split in two causing a great valley and He will gather His followers from the four corners of the earth.
Sounds like He may just be a little more than a mere prophet.

I believe in reincarnation so I think the party is on going and the end is different for everyone. If life is eternal then the quest for eternal progression would seem likely. Otherwise, stagnation would be eminent and God would himself become bored.

god the thought of that thought process having to physical forms is frightening

Christ ran from them when they threw stones because it hurt like a bitch!

youll love his version, it is quit the leap from any semblance of rational thought

Precisely!

think of the ultimate internet troll, and amplify its efforts to an obscene degree, and you get jj.a character that is as compelling as is repulsive.

as authoritarians

has it ever crossed your mind that when the multitudes of humanity find what you say to be rediculous, even if its content is accurate, that maybe just maybe your presentation is flawed?

Let's say, we're riding in a dunebuggy down an endless sandy beach. The earth and all its very temporary animals - and their equally temporary thoughts and imaginings are a lost speck of dust three miles back.

Of course, but i believe straight talk in the end and somewhere down the road is the most effective.
I disagree on "the multitudes" as most logical people believe in intelligent design of the universe, and those that don't are just rebeling against the notion that They Themselves are not GOD and the authority on all matters.

Yes our physical lives are just dust in the wind, soon to disappear and be replaced by other dust.
Sounds like a Kansas song.

Yeah that makes as much sense as jumping off a bridge. God has never been shy about stating who he is and what he expects, yet you say he came here as a human and only revealed it to a "select few" and that even they didnt understand. What would be so hard about saying "im God" and understanding it? God has always stated "i am your lord and none are beside me" Yet you want me to believe that he physically came here and then decided to speak in riddles about who he was. Even though the messiah himself said that no man has ever seen nor heard the father at any time, yet you say the one who said this was the father, i call that a contradiction. Your rationalization is not helping you.

Yes but which one is right? They ALL differ on who went to the tomb when the rock was discovered rolled away and what they seen. There are accounts of two marys going and seeing an angel,,,then two marys going and seeing two men,,,then two marys and another woman and seen one man,,then only one mary going and seeing no men or angels, which one is right?

Your silly boxes that you try to place God in -- as if He cant be in two places at once.
God is Omnipresent.
Jesus also said "no man has descended from heaven save the son of man who is NOW in heaven" thereby claiming to be in both places at once.
Just because you cannot comprehend the nature of God with your puny finite mind doesn't make His nature any less valid.

You dont understand my beliefs but i fully understand yours i was a christian for 28 years of my life. A prophet is just that, a messenger sent with revelation from God,,,(a human messenger) No prophet including jesus nor mohammed was ever foolish enough to claim to be God, or claim to be equal with God, jesus never said himself that his name will be exalted above all others, (other people wrote that) however the Quran does say that God exalted him and gave him a high rank. I already told you about the I am quote, go look into it yourself, im not going to do the work for you, ive spent years now studying and finding the flaws and manmade crap that entered our beliefs so that im not led astray, you were given a brain for this purpose so it would be wise to use it, and not just listen to everybody else.

Jeremiah 8:8'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?

"and those that don't are just rebeling against the notion that They Themselves are not GOD and the authority on all matters."

Well ill have to agree with that one.

God believers have to hold to faith - because any modern logic soon dispels all the tenants of religious cosmologies.
The very reasons why people are religious are, in every case, a personal reason. Meaning: human activated, human constructed. The reasons are entirely personal.

The definition floated for God, by everyone, can only be thought to encompass all. 'All' is bigger than the personal reasons and ideas. If we use the word "God" - God is bigger than religious people's conceptions. And therefore their very conception is to such a degree, less than God, or not God.

Their conceptions are not God, can never be God and therefore are a false God. Comprehending this is too scary for most.

But, obviously, God is then more and somewhere else and clinging to one's religion is the VERY THING that keeps them from knowing more - keeps them from a greater understanding.
It's like you found your house, which you have thought is the greater world beyond - but staying in the self-created house is the very thing that keeps you from opening the door and going outside - and seeing the actual greater world that's out there.

And only because you thought you were right to build the house and stay in it. Wishing to cling to the stability that seemed to attain.

What was before one's personal religion? - A garden of what they consider their ignorance; - from which they grew and found religion. So standing in ignorance, they had an idea and moved forward into their religious house.

Now they're afraid to learn more, to move forward - to possibly lose the comfort of that stability - so they stay.

That's being stuck. But it is also, stopping their life at a place, just one step out of an ignorance they needed to abandon.

Need I say more?

Lukes and matthews accounts are based on the writing of mark only they add some details and omit others.
The women went to the tomb and looked inside -- two angels appeared and told them He had risen, so they ran and fetched the disciple Peter.

not in a harsh accusitory sense, but literally look at that post, looking for presumptious statements.
the entire thing is based in a narrative of assured knowledge, no suppositions.
you believe what you offer is straight talk, as if the rest of us arent doing the same?we all think we are towing the most accurate line possible.we dont argue your points just for the sake of it.

you suppose to know what most logical people think.how do you own the understanding of logical thought?how does any of us, while only having our own minds to work with pressume to know the thoughts of others.i could say that logic dictates god doesnt exist, but i cant state that as the case as im not able to read minds.

you then devalue the athiestic view as a flaw not a pathology of reasoned thought.the very same human error you are accusing others of, is the basis of your thought, arrogant knowledge of existance.
its like hordes of barbarians fighting each other cuz each accuses the other of being barbarians, not realizing they are too.

On the other hand if someone says God does not exist, then they themselves must know everything in the universe to be able to truthfully make such a statement.
I submit that none of us knows everything in the universe so such statements are folly to me.

Well stated , voted up !

I don't recall you explaining away Jesus refering to Himself in a way that is the name of God (I Am). Why didn't he use the words I WAS.
Maybe because He had no beggining.

Here is a little explanation of the passage in question.

In John 8:58 Jesus says, "before Abraham was, I Am[1]." Many people make the logical assumption that this is a reference to Exodus 3:14 where God reveals his name to be "I Am" (when he speaks it), or "You Are" (or Yahweh when his people say it). While there appears to be some basic similarity in meaning, the wording of the Greek underlying these verses looks quite different and so it seems unlikely that John intended for us to see a connection between these two verses.[2]

Was "I Am" a way of referring to God? We know that in Judaism in the time of Jesus the Jews had become very conscious of the sacredness of the Divine Name and were afraid to say it publically or even privately (Matt 7:6). For this reason it became common to say "Lord" instead. However, there were other methods used for referring to God besides this ("Power" Matt 26:64, "Heaven" is common in 2 Macc [3]).

Despite the failure of the connection between John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14, it can still be shown that God was known as the "I am" to the Jews, and that they sometimes used this as a way of referring to him. In fact, Psalm 90:2 is almost an exact parallel of John 8:58 - except that mountains are mentioned instead of Abraham, and the words used "You Are" are used instead of "I Am." (Note that only the Greek (LXX) version and not the Hebrew should be used for this comparison. The Hebrew says "You are God" not just "You Are.")

That Jesus' words were a forceful claim to Divinity is immediately apparent - the crowd attempts to stone him. This is something that they would not do if they merely thought he was crazy.

Tunnel vision is known for this effect. Religion instills this ability in all of it's followers. They dare not ask, they dare not seek and therefore it is not opened unto them.

LOL...

My belief is based on fact and not blind faith, For example did you know the Quran speaks of the "7 heavens" and that they all serve a purpose? Science has proven that our atmosphere indeed has 7 distinct layers all serving a specific purpose, a man wandering around the arabian desert 1400 years ago could not have known that, and that is only one of at least a dozen i can quote.

"The women went to the tomb and looked inside -- two angels appeared and told them He had risen, so they ran and fetched the disciple Peter."

Yeah and the other 3 gospels contradict that, need i say more?

ok so the fact that you say the crowd didnt think he was crazy eludes to you saying they knew he was God, so again why would the jews try to stone God? Why would God hide from them? You never have answered that question, you cant because there is no logical answer for it other than it wouldnt happen. Thank you for finally posting some verses to back your claims though.

I am, is not a divine name, its just a title,,i am what i am. I am God, thats all it means, there is no literal personal name for God, you put him human perception, jehovah/yahweh are pagan names. You seem to forget that the jews were constantly falling into idol worship, even at one point sacraficing children to the fire. Worshiping the star of molech (which is where they get this so called star of david symbol which is satanic and was used by many other cultures other than the jews) for pete sake they witnessed one of if not the greatest miracle ever with the splitting of the sea and turned around and worshiped a cow statue when moses left. Why do you think they had so many prophets sent to them? You have no idea what the jews and romans have done to the scripture that you see today. They attempted to do this in islam as well, and while the Quran remained uncorrupted as God vowed to protect that book, they succeeded in making the islamic hadith (islamic version of jewish talmud) which are evil books and lead astray.

You have no clue of the amount of corruption we are speaking of here, and you never will if you just blindly follow the majority.

"They dare not ask, they dare not seek and therefore it is not opened unto them."

Well put, this is one of the many reasons that i believe the Quran now, as it states NOT to follow leaders and so called great men or scholars, and it states to use our brains and verify info, search for proof, dont just blindly follow, that is the true beauty of that revelation as it does not tell its followers to just blindly follow whatever and not ask questions.

as a declarative yes stating god doesnt exist is in the same field of rational error, but not equal as the lack of divine pressence everyday validates the claim.if you could literaly present god to someone it would be a different matter, but as it relies on faith, the lack of a tangable god makes athiesm more rational than not.
similarly the notion of atmosphere or gravity are subject to the same inherant status making education needed for an understanding of them.
but the big difference between them is we have a method to seek and understand atmosphere and gravity via the scientific method, wich self represents repeatedly.religious believe does not do this.

anyone who declares to know the answer is of course wrong as none of us are any closer than another in actuality to cracking the code of existance, but similarly you are running a foul of the same crime in supposing to posses an authorative understanding of religion.

as an example one of your theories is that in the early days of christianity, the wolves manipulated the word and corrupted it.wich may be completely one hundred percent true, but that also means the information you have, as you arent two thousand years old is from the same flawed deal you dismiss others info as.the only difference is your personal methods of deduction, wich once again could be perfect, erronius, or anywhere in between.

in a broader sense, as religion goes, you (and a bazillion others as im not singling you out) are flawed in your understanding.not that i have the right understanding or anyone does, but just as islam insists its characterization is the be all end all, you do the same.your method is in the bloggosphere and as of late islams method of expressing this idea is through blowing shit up.both are a matter of intolerance of the other, based on arrogance.for all we know the scientologists have it right, and the rest of us are just wasting our time.its doubtfull, but its the concept im driving at.until the answer is revealed no method is more valid or less valid than any other.no understanding right, and none wrong.

i dont recall where i saw it, in religulous or in another documentarian endevour but for some reason it stuck with me, as one of those things that just wont leave my memory despite every effort to make it go away.
but there was this woman who was being interviewed about her literalest beliefs, and the subject was the ark story.it was a pleasant exchange,no animosity, but she gave about two sentences worth of explanation, and then just giggled and said its just easier.she wasnt embarrassed, an you got nothing but the most pure feeling from her, but the idea that even thinking about this stuff was foriegn to her amazed me.she never questioned it,cuz its just easier to go along with the bullshit.

i wonder if that is what leads us to attrocities.like did all the hutu people of rwanda just not think about genocide.did germans just say its easier not to think about wether or not jews are human or rats.i just cant imagine a mind functioning like that.having the gift of intilect and abandoning it for the sake of ease

This is why proof is given in the book freecrack,,,proof that we can verify today even with science that people way back then could not have known, God does not expect us to just believe in an invisible man who supposedly sent a human every couple hundred years to speak his word. He gave miracles to some prophets for proof, and he gave scientific proof in the books to verify knowing that later generations would figure this stuff out. I do agree with some of your post though, its a fairly rational comment, and i understand where your coming from. When i left christianity i was borderline atheist for a couple years.

As for islam, it preaches the same basic message that was taught by all prophets, of course christians and jews will differ with that notion, as the Quran was sent to verify the truth that was left and expose the falsehood. And yes there are extremist muslims who are misled and do aggressive and or violent things, as do the other groups as well. But i hope you dont think that islam actually teaches that in the Quran? First off the majority of these so called terror attacks are false flags perpetuated by govts to futher an agenda. However look to the christians and the crusades and inquisition. Look to the jews and what they are doing to the palestinians. And also to some of the rouge muslims who "blow shit up" or behead people (which is completely unlawful in the Quran)

Everybody has a choice, and the proof is there, to deny the proof is arrogant, and is only showing that one wants to serve their own will and do as they please (which leads to evil)

Not condoning the german death camps, but you have to realize that hitler indoctrinated the shit out his people, he convinced them that the jews and communist were out to destroy them, hence they fealt like it was self defense. Hitler pulled a false flag on the reishstag (spelling) and blamed it on jews and communist terrorist in order to usurp power and convince the people they needed to attack. Also he helped pull them out of a depression which made him appear as a savior. I see our country going the same route, just in a longer amount of time. Again this boils down to people not thinking for themselves, they want the TV news station or the president to give them the truth and 80% of the time its a lie. That is why i partially blame what i call the sheep, because they are the ones who have allowed these assholes to come in here and prey on their greed, they are the ones who refuse to be self sufficient, they are the ones always looking for a human savior, which empowers the few to enslave the many. And this is why the Bible and the Quran both warned not to get caught up in the things of this life, as they will lead you astray in one way or another.

oh shit now im sucked in to the religious vortex.
i dont believe at all that any of the books preach violence any more than any other as they are all the same lore just different editors.
i also dont think that contemperary jihad is false flag operations either, as they have been working at it for 50 yrs now from the achilles lauro to 9-11.if some are flase flag ops the question is why is it so easy to believe islam is behind it, cuz usualy it is.no other group in contemperary global society takes to terrorism the way islam does.
it is niether indicitive of islam or contrary.

preaching to the chior my man.no one obsesses over european history as i do, its a sickness really masked in education.my comentary although public is tailored to montesooma who has a particular train of thought.

as far as the question of german citizens going along with the idiocy of the day, imreally wondering abot those who had first hand experiences not the multitudes unaware.the germans who lived with jewish nieghbors thier whole lives with out incident, whos kids played together, how did they just go along.i will never understand how after the first time seeing an ss soldier treat jews as they had how a mental spark wouldnt have ingnited critical thought at some level.

as far as us being in the same spot as germany, we arent even close.look at russia as they are still struggling from recent collapse and literaly have the nazi party represented openly in thier government.our free speech is an insurance against the propaganda machine of the riech.we will be just fine.

They didn't know He was God, they knew He was claiming to be God.
It is right there in the text, but maybe your dislexic and so you ask why were they trying to stone God.
YOu are just being silly, and my time is more valuable than to exchange with you when you don't have elementary reading skills.

I don't believe the thousands of codices from which the scriptures come have been altered since many of them were still underground until recent times.
The wolves I speak of introduced idolotry and outright heretical beliefs and taught those to the world at large.
This was the reason Martin Luther rebelled against the pope and was put to death.

I don't have a problem with the lack of God in the everyday lives of men because as i have stated previously that I believe the world to be seperated from God in general -- so this only reinforces my beliefs.

Make no mistake about it -- Islams killing what they view as infidels is murder and is indeed an affront to God.
I don't believe they have even close to a moral equivalent to those who believe that Christ came to give life and to give it more abundantly.

Some people are not smart enough or don't have the resources to be apologists for their faith -- it is just what they believe.
Not all people can be leaders or teachers some are just doing the best they can with the awareness that they have.

I don't know how long our free speech is going to be free.
Just today we have stories of massive media corruption when reporting the news and government hitlists of people who make trouble.

seeing as i now have a hand in this, what are your beliefs?

But alas, the Muslims will be forgiven for murdering the infidels as all debt has been paid and they are saved as well as the infidel they murdered. It was a gift, they will be saved. Lets have a free for all.

You don't really think that im going to lend any good thing to a self important Cult leader who murdered people.
Are you saying that im just like Jones?
Come right out and say it -- judge me by jim jones actions when i was only 15.
Means nothing to me.

Huh?