ASU denies claims made by student | The Augusta Chronicle

I didn't...but those who denied treatment should be fired and sued. Healthcare is supposed to be ruled by ethics not personal moral values...there's a big difference.

Agreed! If youre going into counseling or any other therapy based program you need to learn that your personal beliefs cannot play a roll in your work. If shes so strongly religious and cannot put her beliefs aside to help others, then she needs to explore Christian counseling at churches or Christian private schools because she is not fit to work with the general populous.

I see your agreed and raise you 3 more, my friend! Although, it makes me terribly sad that we don't live in an Age of Tolerance ....

I don't know about that.

She looks a bit scary in that photo.

or run for vice president.

So, she should go to school with different requirements.

As it stands, it's like a Vegetarian trying to graduate from Cooking school without ever touching meat. She should have went to an all-Vegetarian Cooking school.

I'm sure there is some right-wing fundamentalist christian school out there where she can get a degree in Christian counseling.

...and what would you say if she refused to council black people?

It's not about "accepting" or not "accepting", it's about doing your job, and not letting your bigotry get in the way.

I don't think you understand the situation.
She's not going to 'council whoever it is she wants to council' after she graduates. She's in a program for counseling children K-12. That means kids will come to her when they have problems, she doesn't get to choose who she talks to- and some of them will be gay.

A neutral perspective is at the core of being a counselor. Christians must counsel atheists, patriots must counsel anarchists, vegans must counsel omnivores. All with an objectively neutral attitude that is not influenced by their most personal beliefs.

So, you have it backwards. She would be the one forcing her beliefs onto young homosexual children that come to her for counseling.

I think a few of you guys have it wrong. She can choose who she is willing to counsel. Whether they are athiests, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Gays, whoever, it's a free world, you can basically do what you want. If she has completed the curriculum, give the paper, adios. There's lots of shit I don't accept, that I don't have any intention of ever dealing with in my life. There are so many politically correct people out there, you aren't going to force your beliefs on my life, make me change my thinking and I'm not going to force mine on you. Why does it bother so many people on this site that some people don't accept gays, will never accept gays, don't accept Muslims, don't accept illegal aliens, whatever. So I was voted down. Wow, I'm sure going to lose a lot of sleep over than one. So the school wants her to accept LGBTs. And she doesn't want to. Well it's her choice. You can't force someone to accept what their religious brainwashing has been telling her is wrong since the day she first went to church. Religion is another deal I won't accept. Big surprise, huh?

...and what would you say if she refused to council black people?

Well, Sky, that's her choice. I guess she could go counseling in Utah or Vermont. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But it is her choice. If she wants, she could go to the bible belt, where people that actually are gay, don't admit it. If she didn't want to counsel her least favorite race, there are places that are still segregated. Everyone talks as if she is wrong in her choice here. It's HER choice, not yours, not mine.

Well let's extend your "logic". Your a pharmacist who believes in Scientology and you decide you're not going to fill any prescriptions for anti depressants. You're a doctor/nurse that anti gay so you decide you won't treat them when they come into your office. The list goes on.

No one is forcing her to accept other peoples way of life, they expect her to do her job as a trained therapist. If she can't accept that her job will require her to provide counseling to the GLBT community then she's no better than a doctor who get nauseated at the sight of blood. She should get out and do something else.

Your under some kind of misconception. Liberals are not tolerant of everyone. We draw the line at stupidity and bigotry. If you can't accept that someone who is different than you is entitled to the benefits you enjoy, that makes you stupid and bigoted. Got it? We don't accept, nor are tolerant of stupid, bigoted people. Voted down. Oh, we despise liars too.

Hey Mark, that came up in court recently when a pharmacist refused the morning after pill to a chick that had unprotected sex the night before, and it upheld his right to refuse to fill the prescription on religious grounds.

Again, I believe she can counsel whomever she wants. You don't have to be a counselor in West Hollywood or San Francisco. If counseling is her chosen field, she could always become a religious based counselor, you know, making minimum wage.

She might be able to choose who she is willing to counsel IF she starts her own business. However, I suspect if the insurance companies that paid her clients bills got wind that she was picking and choosing her clients based on their sexual orientation, they would simply stop sending patients there. I see no reason why the entire psychiatric/counseling industry should change their ways to suit her ideological idiosyncrasies.

"You people"
Are you kidding?
She said she would counsel a gay student to change their gay behavior.
That is clearly inappropriate behavior for a K-12 counselor.

I don't think you have a grasp of the issue.
She can't let her personal beliefs on homosexuality influence how she councils children.
Just like an atheist can't let their personal beliefs on religion influence how they counsel Christian children.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? It's not like it's a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

I think I understand your problem though. You're saying she is entitled to her opinion on homosexuality, which she is.
However, (here's the important part) >>>>she cannot let that opinion affect how she counsels children according to her graduate program.

Really, going by your logic, it would be OK for a Christian counselor to try and convert a Muslim student.
This counselor would be imposing her views on homosexuality onto a gay student. Does that make sense to you?

You really don't have a point, lol.
You used to be better at this :/

lol... "you used to be better at this" hehehehehee... are you saying you know j, i mean him? lol...

the avatars are always a dead give away.
Not as much as the crack-pot logic though, lol.

flyingkick, I can see your point, but there are people out there in every profession, whether it's counseling kids, selling cocaine, running BP, to managing a McDonalds, that let their personal beliefs flow over into their professional training/their field of choice. If her religion has here completely convinced that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't like gays, she is going to run with that. Same with extreme Christian counselors, there is no doubt they are going to try to instill in Muslims, or Athiests or Buddhists or whoever, that they are wrong. I'm absolutely sure of this. People, no matter what they are doing, will generally try to put their beliefs on other people. People I know, people you know, it's just most peoples nature. The ole "I'm right and you're wrong."

upheld his right to refuse to fill the prescription on religious grounds?

GIve a link.

Every single time a similar case has occurred, people have NOT been allowed to deny service to others based on their personal bias.

It's what Rosa Parks fought for.

If what you say occurred, it was a judgement by some right-wing fundamentalist judge who ignores the constitution in favor of his beliefs.

And she made a choice which school to go to, and she made a choice to not full fill the requirements for graduation.

Choices have consequences.

She wants to be a counselor in schools. You know, for kids who don't exactly have a choice in who they get counseled by...

We're not hypocrites, we just don't tolerate intolerance.

She should be punished. If you don't do what you're required to do in college you don't graduate. Call that a punishment if it makes you happy. There's plenty of schools that offer degrees in counseling/therapy, I'm willing to bet not all of them make you practice on gays.

The school is doing its job by not letting a student who is incapable of following protocol to graduate. If she did her job, they wouldn't have a problem. You might be unaware, but schools do have the right to fail students that cannot do their jobs.

In the past, all mental disorders were believed to be caused by demonic possession.

All scientific disciplines are based on the LATEST findings, not on the OLDEST.

If she wants to be a councilor and she still thinks homosexuality is an illness, that is no different from a medical student who thinks cancer can be cured by chanting and painting magical symbols on the patient's skin.

Thus, she is not qualified to graduate and hold the profession she was being trained for.

That's not entirely true.

There have been many cultures throughout history where homosexuality was accepted. Also, the idea of 'mental illness' is relatively new.

Read Foucault's History of Sexuality or Birth of the Clinic.
Or anything by Foucault for that matter.

It wasn't always young men for old men in the Greek and Roman era...

You are incorrect. Homosexuality was not considered a mental illness throughout the "VAST" majority of history. It was accepted and practiced in many advanced cultures. The Spartans were encouraged to take their male lovers into battle with them because it made them fight harder. Think you'd have the guts to call a Spartan gay? The Romans practiced it, middle eastern cultures, tribes in Africa etc. Also Christ never said a word about it. Nothing, nada, zip, zero. It was St. Peter that came down on it but frankly, he hated all sexuality.

Also you comment about Christ being no doormat is strange. Wasn't it Christ that taught that we should turn the other cheek? The fact is you know nothing about Christ, what he taught or what he felt, no one does. Christ didn't write anything down so all you know is what was written by ignorant men no sooner than 50 years after his death. Some writings in the Bible were written hundreds of years later. If you boil it down, what is written in the bible accounts for about a week of actual face time with Christ, with even that being reduced to about 15 minutes worth or reading. Not a lot to base an opinion on if you ask me.

Which would make so much sense, if she had been educated about 20 years ago. She's being educated now!

if she doesnt have hate then why this refusal? Why wont she try to help all people equally regaurdless of race gender or sexual orientation? Is what she doing really that different than if she said she would not counsel men?

Nope thats not the point at all. The point is that she cannot be considered educated if she refuses to help one group or another. There are no viable institutions that consider being gay a psychological problem, therefore wether the person is gay or not is irelavant to the matter. So ya shes just hatin, and I do hate hate so you kinda right.

I don't think you understand the issue. You're just using it as a soapbox for your own anti-left ideology.
Ironically this article is about a person whose own crazy ideology makes her unsuitable for her chosen field. -They ARE a pretty tolerant bunch; if her hate wasn't going to get in the way of her job, then she'd be ok. As it happens, she says it will.

It's pretty simple and you'd have to be even simper not to see that.

My point was exactly what you gathered. Tolerance IS a two way street and NO ONE is right or wrong when it comes to personal opinions. And each of us have as much right to our opinions as anyone else.

There are many professionals who choose their clients. Lawyers do it all the time if they don't want the case. They don't have to give a reason. They might refer the person someone more suitable. This girl could be an effective counselor even though she chooses to not counsel homosexuals. Perhaps she could have an attitude like this: "I have very strong feelings about working with homosexuals and transgender and don't feel that I understand them well enough to be able to help them. I find it impossible to identify with them in any way and I feel I would be more effective working with others."

If I were homosexual or transgender I would certainly not want or need a counselor who struggled to understand where I was coming from or who was disapproving of my lifestyle. I believe there is room for both sides to compromise without compromising their values.

Whatever. Just so long as our personal beliefs systems don't get in the way of us doing our jobs we're all ok. :)

Sorry, but that is the JOB of a counsellor.
Your defence is nothing but Quixotic.

I see your point and agree the truth is better then fake politeness.

Personal belief system almost always gets in a way of effective treatment. Check out ignorance by radical feminists who often become therapists.

So, what would you say if she had refused to deal with black patients?

I agree that no black patient would want a racist therapist, but should someone who openly admits to having a problem with black people that is that severe be considered qualified to even BE a therapist?

Sure, she might be an effective counselor, even though she chooses not to council homosexuals.
But, she's not becoming just any counselor; she's becoming a K-12 counselor. That means she can't pick which students come to her for help. That means there will be homosexual children coming to her for help.

She's already admitted that she will council homosexuals to change their homosexual behavior.
^That right there is against the principles of the program she's in. That's why she fails.

In the program she's in, an atheist can't counsel a Christian against Christianity, a vegan can't counsel an omnivore to stop eating meat, just like she cannot counsel homosexuals against homosexuality.

Understand?

I'm afraid it's not wrong to demand tolerance all the while not tolerating intolerance.

This particular woman woman wants to be a school counselor. If you've been to school, which I'm sure you have, then you are aware that students don't get to choose which counselor they speak to.

But you are not conservative or liberal.

Both conservatives and liberals have VIEWS on TOPICS, and then DISCUSS those VIEWS.

All you do is childish taunts and name calling.

The fact that you direct your bile at liberals does not make you a conservative, it just makes you anti-liberal.

Since the topic of this article is psychology, I wonder what the psychological motivations behind your actions are.

You do not seek intellectual stimulation by discussing views.

You seem to just want attention- like a small child having a tantrum.

Is this really the best you can do?

Honestly- what joy do you get from being a mindless troll?

And you are back- with how many different names on this page alone? Three? Four?

Of course you don't see my views on issues- because you don't see any actual views.
You are not here for issues.

Instead, you have raw emotions, and project those raw emotions on others.

So, why do you do it?

Let's start with something simple- Why the multiple accounts?

You are able to post multiple comments with a single account, so that would not be a reason to have more than one.

Is it because all you are doing is trying to get people mad at you on purpose, and then get banned, and then come back, over and over?

Why would that be a goal for you?

How is that fun?