If Americans only Knew

you do realize just like us, and actualy even more so, israel has a government representative of its people.you praise these kids (and rightfully so) but dont see thier voices being heard in israeli policy, when it is.

more powerfull than oil?
more powerfull than tobacco?
more powerfull than beef and corn?

More powerful than all of the above.

YES!
YES!
YES!

so saddam hussien makes one move in to taking kuwait, and we send our troops and carry the full load of preventing this for oil, and israel is a bigger lobby despite us never sending a single troop to defend israel from those who have tried to take her?

your theory states that israel has a massive amount of influence, but has chosen to never have us help them any of the bazillion time they have been at war.i mean the brits and us are gay for each other when it comes to this, but israel some how is even closer with us despite us not ever letting them in to our riendeer games.
israel has so much influence they were denied airspace in the first gulf war.
who is running who when israel hasnt bombed iran yet.if they do it fucks our shit up in afganastan and iraq, but i guess you are supposing israel isnt bombing out of a sense of ediquitte over national defense?

did you just have a ziongasm?

in regard to your first statement, do you really imagine geopolitical afairs are that cut and dy simple?you know better.israel makes our ammo, and not for free.israel created those multimillion dollar drones, and we didnt get them for free.our money in israeli hands is investment in our own interests.do they buy our jets, yup they sure do.then they take em apart and rebuild them to thier higher standards.in 48 the pa and the israelis recieved identical monies.the palastinians as a collective have abused and squandered it while israel made good on that initial offering.
no amount of money buys you soldiers, and no weaponry combats suicide bombers.it just doesnt work the way you suppose.

as far as aipac targeting politicians can you cite the example of when that worked. im saying can you show me the time aipac destroyed some candidate, or even damaged a candidate to warrent a legitimate fear of them?realisticaly aipac is meant to represent zionists as they are a huge voting block, mostly on the evangelical side, not the jewish side that funds aipac.republicans would never talk about the palastinians cuz israel is as republican as big government bad and taxes bad.democrats stay away from it cuz its a lose, lose proposition.people dont vote on behalf of the palastinians.democrats have a problem as republicans get half of us by playing to zionism (your bernie goldberg,david horowitz types) and the other half are affected by a leaders position on israel.if a democrat condems israel, leftists jews wont vte republican, but they will stay home.
just as social security is the third rail of politics, for democrats electoral math makes israel a third rail issue.aipac or no aipac.

.It happened to Alabama Congressman Earl Hilliard in 2002, a five-term incumbent who refused to sign an AIPAC-written House Resolution, a “pledge of allegiance” to the state of Israel.

It happened to Cynthia McKinney, a five-term US rep from Georgia's Fourth District in 2002.

It nearly happened to Congressman Jim Moran in 2007 when he accused AIPAC of interfering with Congressional procedures and pointing to AIPAC as the primary agitator of the Iraq War.

Need I go on?

yeah and that is no different that any other political entity.ethenol pledge sound familiar?wanna hazard a guess as to how many people hold office sans ethenol pledge compared to israel pledge?

There will be no peace in the Holy Land until Israel has another fair leader like Yitzhak Rabin. I fear some right wing Zionist loon will kill him/her as well. :-( I think the Shministim are the last great hope for peace in the Holy Land.

wouldnt catagorizing lee harvey oswald as a right wing communist loon be a diservice to truth and history?
i dont see how zionism has anything to do with it.(oslwald was communist wich amounted to dick)
like a person cant be fanatical about israel without being zionist?being as the zionist movement has a greater history of peace then its present kinnesset representation, doesnt linking the two as one in the same a clear bias in presentation of information?

Yes, but if he were categorized as a left wing communist loon it would be accurate. I am as sure of this as anything if you were to ask Yigal Amir are you a Zionist his answer would be YES! "being as the zionist movement has a greater history of peace then its present kinnesset representation"

I truly laughed when I read the above statement. I KNOW you are as better student of Modern Israeli history than myself, so I know you know that is a pile of mess. In MANY ways the Stern Gang makes Hamas look like rank amateurs when it come to EFFECTIVE Terrorism.

For reference you should read Terror Out of Zion: Irgun Zvai Leumi, Lehi, and the Palestine Underground By J. Bowyer Bell

you are casting aspersions on zionism, wich im not fan of.you have the right to do so, but not just the parts of interest to you but the entirety of zionism.
just as the tea party hardly represents he republican party, your depiction of zionism doesnt give zionism an accurate evaluation.yes zionism has a contemperary element that by any standards presents itself in the most disgusting manor possible, but it is not indicitive of zionism.the kkk doesnt represent christianity, bin laden doesnt represent islam, and the militant jews dont represent zionism.

lemme ask ya.my mom is a zionist, is she evil,violent,or part of a malevolent plot?
before we dovolve into mom jokes (just make it funny if ya do) the answer is no she is a criminal record free retired public school teacher.shit we are broke so its not like she is even contributing anything more than her vote.is aipac some how the only lobby trying to sway our endevours in a manor that benefit them?does africa not also do this?do european nations not also do this?do arab nations do this?

bernie goldberg is a disgusting human being, and david horowaitz is a racist hatefull bastard, but just blanketing them in with all zionists, and even presenting them as what zionism is, is just retarded.just like saying islam is terrorism.broad generalizations. instead of attacking the actual offenders you offer them cover by making thier political group the bad guy.

remember while you are making blanket statements about any group, some other group is benefiting from it.we hate woody allen cuz of what he did.we hated leona helmsley cuz of what she did.we hate mel gibson for what he does.if the criticism were true and honest it would be presented that john doe committed this crime, not a political group.
how stupid does it look when the right says all democrats are something, or the left says all republicans are something.its bullshit dressed up as events to serve a political agenda.

the republicans dont want so little regulation that we are in a state of anarchy
the democrats dont want to tax you in to poverty
islam doesnt want to destroy america
and zionism doesnt want to destroy islam,run the world,or any of the classic forms of antisemitism.

imagine us waiting till we recieve 8 thousand attacks before responding lol. first rocket and we hare hunting people

In that regard you are comparing apples and oranges. Duh! Americans don't know and really don't care what is going on in occupied territories. But the film clip attached to this post is not going to change that or challenge people's perceptions of that. If they made a film like Crash that looked at the Palestinian/Israeli crisis maybe it might work -- but sadly the original posted video is simply Glenn Beck shtick for the more educated crowd-IMHO.

That and why is Glenn Beck popular? Because he hits all the right (literal and figurative :P ) talking points and preys on people's fears and stereotypes about people of different ethnicity or skin color than themselves. And just exactly like a Glenn Beck episode this original clip video only encourages people to become entrenched and fight back and forth over who's position is more valid--but it never really encourages an open minded discussion that leads to a place of TRUTH.

Goebbels would indented be proud of this piece. I mean there is no better propaganda than the TRUTH being told in a way that stirs emotion.

yo, i cud easily put up much more repugnant material about the palestinians & contrary views...& ur point iz?

look, i know the israelis r no angels...but given a choice between israeli or hamas rule????...itz a no-brainer lmao!

Your view might have some merit if we were giving the Palestinians BILLIONS of $$$ to treat the Israelis like shit. The problem is we are giving it to the Isreales so they can treat the Palestinians like shit. We are the ones who catch hell for it. I say keep American Tax $$$ in America!

Yeah that would be true--if this was actually TRUTH and not just a badly edited advertisement for a documentary that conveniently will be released just in time to qualify to compete for the Academy Awards for best documentary or international film.

What pray tell was not truthful about the clip?

so it is your contention that (hold on its hard to type while laughing this hard) goebbels had reverance for truth.oh god that is amazing.
do you lift this stuff, or do you think it on your own.
i know i have some round about big picture theories, but they rely on reality.
goebbels knows truth like vince mcmahon knows athletic competition, just enough to exploit.

that piece didnt stir emotion as much as make us look like a nation of scared abe simpsons.

so who is financing the palastinians again?i know iran floods them with military items, but iran hasnt the resources to financialy help them as iran is under heavy sanctions.the saudis the egyptians the jordanians also see them as threats more than allies.so who is it that the palastinians are getting thier financing from?financing that only manifests in terror.

at least with israel, we get back a return on our investment from the only reliable intel in the region most likely to attack us, to fighter drones and tanks that dont get stuck in the sand.
ya know that machine your typing on, guess who made that possible? ill give you a hint, it wasnt the palastinians.

opinions arent fact.
i can post any number of documentaries or speech's from the david horowitz "freedom" foundation, but it doesnt make that information true.just one zionist assholes opinion.
it is enlightening to see the difference between the two.

Goebbels understood that a twisted and spun truth is a great propaganda tool. Israel is slowly taking over the West Bank aided with US dollars and Palestine is fighting back. That doesn't make Palestine the bad guys. The US needs to get the fuck out of it.

It's a touch more complex than "given Israeli or Hamas rule." But I understand "complex" is not something you do well. Your Internet Punk Bitch slang is fabulous.

spun truth isnt what goebbels was working with.
frolicking jews in sundress's werent in existance in ww2 despite it being shown as such.that isnt spun truth, its lying.
check out "a film unfinished".not only does it show us more of the lies the riech was telling, but it has the out takes proving its falsehoods.unless ou think that jews are subhuman and bent on destroying civilization.then i suppose it would just be spun truth.

as far as israel invading the west bank, that is complete bullshit.
how can israel both be taking over the west bank inch by inch, and also be this overtly militant figure who attacks all the time.either operation cast lead and the flotilla are examples of a violent israel, wich means if they were actively taking back judea it would be done already via the idf's overwhelming strength.
or if they are passive aggresive in thier methods, cast lead and the flotilla were acts of self defense as israels methodology is the path of least resistance.
it cant be both as they are contadictory.

further more the notion that the west bank is soveriegn is false as well.i respect that a persons home is a persons home regardless of wether it is part of a larger state or governent body.forced evictions are forced evictions regardless, but they have brought it upon them selves.
if texas decided to attack oklahoma on a regular basis and demand its destruction, would the lone star state recieve the right of soveriegnty, or would we treat them as a rogue enemy engaged in conflict, and persue rule of,if not defense from that state?
just as in 48, if the palastinians didnt want to risk thier land they shouldnt have engaged in activities that make land aqquasition possible, war.
if they stopped in 48 the southern half of present day israel would be thiers still, but in 67 they tried again and lost more.they are still doing it today.
when you put your money down on a blackjack table and win you reap the rewards, and when you lose the wager is lost.no backsies.if they stop fighting thier territory remains in thier hands, just as if your money isnt put on the table, you cant lose it.

the only complex thing about this iz in ur mind...sounds like u'd stumble ova a handicap ramp...enlighten me o wize1 rotf!

It's hard to tell because there are snatches of "truth" but its so highly edited and spun to only show the extremes of both positions that it simply doesn't rise to the level of TRUTH that means the speakers pushed themselves out of their comfort zones and challenged their belief system and actually said something that required them to explore their soul and their values and decide for themselves what is TRUTH --so really it's not so much that this video is not truthful from a given perspective or that it really even rises to the level of well done propaganda either--thus overall it comes across as a bunch of politicians and educated people hitting the popular talking points and that the filmmakers just did this because it has the potential to win them awards for documentary film making.

I would say he had about the same reverence for the truth as Bill Clinton. That does not mean they do not know what it is.

The PC I am typing on was more than likely not made possible by some Jack Booted thug masquerading as a soldier in Hebron either.

What EXACTLY was stated in the trailer that you think is false?

Does your hypothetical situation take place before of after Oaklahoma INVADED and BRUTALLY OCCUPIED Texas?

of course they know from truth, otherwise they would be bound by truth by default.ya cant recognize right with out understanding wrong.knowing what is true isnt a subject of debate.goebbels substituted propaganda for truth.
clinton just ducked as long as he could, he didnt pose an alternative explanation as to how his sperm ended up on monicas dress.
goebbels would have gone the way of alternative story demonizing an enemy.
"the republicans planted a sperm stained dress in monicas wardrobe".
both lies, but clinton was that of omission, goebbels created false narrative.

well for starters it shows a cherry picked perspective sans opposition points.
the entire narrative of the video doesnt acknowledge individuality of any people, or the notion of cultures, just keeps it simple in "us" and "them" terms.israeli bad, arab good.
the us governments policy is dictated by israel, complete protocals of zion propaganda.
israel is undermining us security is another lie.
israel is guilty of nazi war crimes is also a lie, alla moral inversion.

a lie by omission is a lie just the same, wich is the real crime in this video.tell the tale that some one punched you in the face and boy does that person seem like an asshole.tell the tale of how you were beating him up extensively before he punched you in the face and it is a different story all together.you know it, i know it, and this is all patronizing bullshit asking where this video lies.
does israel abuse its prisoners yes, but as a matter of regional culture.the palastinians do the same.do the israelis kill civilians in thier quest to destroy terrorists yes, but terrorists hide behind civilians.half the story paints one picture, the whole story another.

nope cuz israel didnt exist as a nation that could invade, they were just people in a given location who wanted freedom like our founding fathers.we threw off the british to create our nation they threw off the british to create thiers.they even offered the palastinians coallition government wich we never did to our natives.
when you want to call a civilization's birth brutal, you may want to concern yourself with wether or not it is the pot calling the kettle black.if you are truly so bothered by this on a humanitarian level then maybe you should sign over your land to native americans who actualy suffered a genocide for our nation to be built as opposed to the palastinians who exist in the millions.
the only brutality exerted upon the palastinians was what they brought on themselves.they chose war, not peace.they chose all or nothing, not comprimise.they chose exclusion over hospitality.

by the way, how many non military, uneducated, jews from europe "invaded" the region?(im just saying from 40 to 45 jews were either in camps or hiding so if the majority were 18, they had been enslaved since thirteen.not really a bunch of warriors or politicos) how many of the jews who founded israel in 48 were arab. and why is it exactly despite zionism not being availed to arab jews that millions ended up in that region.
if you want to talk about brutality at the time, you are looking in the wrong direction.if not for regional abuse of jews, the few thousand european jews would not have been able to survive.it was the arab jews pushed out of thier homelands after living there for thousands of years that gave jews the numbers needed to survive as a nation.
also how was it again that israel aquired the southern half of the country, including jerusalem again?

Now we've been over this and you know as well as I that the war in 67 was the result of military posturing by a few Muslim states but Israel attacked first. Most people would see that as instigating the war and regardless of the instigation the land currently occupied by Israel is Palestinian land. Israel is in violation of international law. You can't have it both ways. Either your the victim of terrible terrorist attacks (a whopping 28 dead after over 8000 rockets) or your a militaristic tyrant bent on the destruction of Palestine. Given the attitude of Israel regarding the settlements on occupied land and abhorrent number of civilian deaths during operation Cast Lead I'm leaning towards militaristic tyrants. Now we both know I have no love for Hamas or terrorists in general and I will uphold Israels right to defend itself but Israel has to give up the occupied land. It's like stealing a candy bar from the store... sure you took it but it still isn't yours.

look, if 18 guys from saudi arabia can fly two planes into two buildings and that be a declaration of war from afgahnastan, i think egypt throwing out un peace keepers from sania while amassing its military on israels border a pretty clear declaration of war to follow.not to mention syria and jordan were doing the same thing, as well as them all declaring thier intention to wipe israel off the map once and for all.i think on that instance im gunna go ahead and state while israel may have attacked first, they didnt declare war.they declared defense.
alll land is some ones land.the arab land was some one elses first, and if you follow that back it was the very jews who took the land.no civilaztion exists with out conquest,from us and the indians,to the russians,to the ottoman empire.the palastinians were offered coallition government and refused to share.they set the terms of all or nothing.the result was a bet they wagered.in 67 it was fucked up cuz the arab nations did the same thing on behalf of the palastinians and gave away the store.it sucks it does, but thats how that goes.it would be great if just gave back the western two thirds of america to the natives, but thats just not how it goes.suadi arabi,egypt,and jordan signed away the territory as they had the power to on behalf of the palastinians.

i have no problem with calling operation cast lead an example of terrorism althought i honestly dont see it that way (terrorists dont give you a heads up before attacking) but then we are a terrorist nation too.we have killed more arabs in the same identical manor (with out the curtious warnings) in the last decade than israel has in 62 yrs.i dont care what crimes you call them out on as long as the same standard is applied to everyone equaly.
and you can have it both ways, as terrorists terrorize other terrorists.its not like he taliban used extreme diplomacy to reign power.hamas attacks fatah and vice versa as much as they do jews.they cant even unify to allign against the jews despite having identical idealogies.

if israels settlement building is the criteria by wich you see militaristic tyrants, on that scale what does launching rockets at children equate too?personaly (snarky yes) i see suicide bombers to be the work of militant tyrany and settlement building just disrepectfull.i mean the russians first czar was known as the terrible, but peter was great despite st petersburg being the city built on bone.not tyrany, just construction wich by the way the palastinians do this too.they build wooden mosks all over unoccupied territory to hope to claim holy domain.

stealing candy from a store is ill gotten goods, but competing for it and winnning is rightfull ownership.even halloween doesnt constitute wrong doing as the candy possesion is a result of agreed upon terms.
had the palastinians said yes you may have the already jewish populated territories as a country, they would still have palastine.they went the route of lets fight for it and lost, twice.had the palastinians in 67 chose to side with the israelis against other arab nations palastine and israel would have been successfull allies, but the palastinians backed the arab horse and lost.

should every lottery winner give back what they won?should we all give the west back to the navajo, and the middle to the french?

i say israel is responsable for tech
you say no jack booted thug made the tech in question
am i with in the subject matter in these statements not supposed to read jack booted thug as being your description of israeli?
every society has thier nuts who cant get along with others, why are the israeli ones some how worth mentioning above any other.this is the point when crystalman would post a competing pic of the palastinians who ripped apart the jews with thier bare hands and displayed blood saoked hands to the adoring crowd.niether picture is anything more than a moment in time, and serves no help characterizing a people, for better or worse.does every picture of the wes baptists assholes or the tea party nuts show how america is just a visceraly hatefull place?
what is more accurate that timothy mcviegh is the exception to the rule or the standard.do you even know that your propagandizing?

once againt dacing the antisemitic dance that supposedly is just me being too sensative with the "chosen people" bullshit.yes the jews are the chosen people, just like the christians are the disciples of god (jesus) and islam is supreme.each religion has a means by wich to claim idealogical arrogance, yet has nothing to do with them does it.the crusades ha nothing to do with it.jihad has nothing to do with it.and chosen means we recieved the word of the lord.thats it pal, not like adam sandler is secretely thinking he is entitled to punch muslums in christians in the face cuz he is superior despite being one of the chosen.
in case you give a shit about that elements application with in judasim it is keeping the torah holy.chosen means we arent allowed to edit it, as we bare the responsability of keeping gods word holy.that is the entire extent of how being chosen is applied.not that you will listen or care.

as far as the kid goes i agree.i dont know what transpired before the pic, but regardless kids cant be allowed to behaive like that.i would as the lady to smack him to really teach him a lesson about how that behavior is met.but thats just one shitty kid on a planet of zillions of them, some even arab and well trained with ak47s.whos kids are those again while we are characterizing entire cultures of people based on the most shallow methods?

Using your logic the United States should go ahead and invade Iran and North Korea since both have pledge the utter destruction of the west. It is absurd to assume that this is a valid criteria for entering into war with any nation. I do not believe the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are legal wars and I am disappointed in my own country for it's involvement in the Afghanistan conflict.

I can see how Israel would have felt threatened by the posturing of it's neighbors and I can even go as far as saying that perhaps the resulting war was inevitable. However, not once did Israel approach the UN security council with it's concerns instead it wholeheartedly readied itself for war. In the end Israel was the one who started the war.

You are correct the land did belong to someone. historically the land was and always has been Palestinian regardless of governing body. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire the British divided the Ottoman Syria into two administrative areas, Palestine, under direct British rule, and autonomous Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from Hijaz Saudi Arabia. The objective of the was to administer parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire until those areas could support themselves. Although the British had plans for a "national home for the Jewish people" under the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the Jewish people had a sizable population and a sudo governing body there was no Jewish State until 1948.

The vary creation of Israel was spearheaded by the Zionist movement and Theodore Herzl. he is the sole reason Britain had a plan for the Jewish Homeland in the British Mandate of Ottoman Syria.

Since it's creation the Zionist movement has one goal that Palestine be established as a Jewish Commonwealth. The "Jewish State" was never part of the Zionist program The first Zionist Congress wanted to rule over the Palestinians as a Jewish Commonwealth.

I must admit some confusion as to the state of Palestine at the end of the British Mandate and at the time of Israel declaring independence. The issue I see is weather or not Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Egypt had the rights to cede Palestinian lands to Israel. If the land was divided into Transjordan and Palestine via the British Mandate and the war started before the mandate had expired wouldn't the British be required to cede the lands in question?

I have never had an issue with Israels right to exist or to defend itself (I'll give them the war in 48) but international law is clear about moving populations onto occupied territory. My issue with Israel is and has always been how they treat the Palestinian people. Their response to rocket attacks killed an unimaginable number of civilians (mostly children) and refusal to return to post war territories and abandon the illegal settlements.

its not just a matter of saying they want to destroy us/israel that validates a first strike, but that statement not only being regional hyperbole, but policy.in conjuction with iranian military forces removing peace keeping forces and centralizing on our borders, then yes we should attack iran.
death to america, and death to israel chants are as common as the star spangled banner is here, yet no one declares war based on this as it is just one element.
how many foriegn troops out of curiosity could a hostile nation line up on canadas borders before canada feels compelled to attack.you dont imagine your gov would just sit back and hope those troops dont attack?
i am disapointed in our present wars as well, not only cuz war is not a method of progress, but more so it plays in to our enemies hands.the point being we (the western allies) have committed every attrocity israel has to a degree that exceeds israel's entire history.if israel are nazis (not saying you labeled them as such, just illustrating a point) than we are nazis time ten, if they are war criminals, we are war mafia.it smacks disingenious at best, antisemitic (not saying you are) at worst to call out israel as the example of how humanity is being abused while ignoring our own governments deeds wich exceed israels.it would be great if israel didnt do these things, and the palastinians wouldnt do thier schtick, but at the end of the day if we cant riegn in our militaries what right do we have to criticize others.especialy other governments who are less guilty that us.its a murderer in court trying to focus attention on the fact that the man he killed was a thief.while that may be true, murder certainly matters more.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/six_day_war_1967.htm
tomatoe tomato.what good would appealing to the un do israel, when the un is comprised of dozens of nations where were comitted to attacking israel, versus israel and us.while the characters in direct action in 67 were syria jordan and egypt, check out how many other arab nations sent troops and weapons.its like faulting iraq for not reaching out to our allies for peace in 2003.like appealing to you guys, or the british would have mattered.

im not even touching the zionist claim to land element as it is cyclical.palastine at 48 was 36 years old, as palastine was the name given to the territory by them in 1912.that doesnt change the fact that indiginous people were removed from thier ancestrial homes.but it is a fruitless endevour as the premise that one agrees to in order to validate rightfull land ownership equally concludes a jewish claim to the territory as well.ahmed used to be there, and before that shlomo was, so what arbitrary line makes "x" amount of years removed from the land a disqualifier?plus if you keep going it is a stalemate as both issac and ishael are from abrahams control of the land.

thier were palastinian towns under palastinian rule with jews scattered throughout, as well as tel-aviv a jewish town under jewish rule with palastinians scattered throughout.both parties had legitimate presences that are undeniable, as well as having an equal claim to contemperary historical governence.while dhimi law governed the land the palastinians had no unified government, nor did the jews.my contention making the leap to create an independant state gives israel the right to it over those where werent interested in such a thing.had the palastinians demanded freedom in the face of colonial rule from britain and the jews didnt, i would say israel should be governed by the palastinians, but it went the other way.

the political element was zionist as zionsm is a political idealogy not a religious one.yes the zionists who had been arguing for a century about where to create a homeland made thier move in 1948.with the help of the local, already indpendant jewish community created over the last 50 yrs by jews there.the other jews who lived in jersualem and surrounding territories helped as well, as the droves of arab jews that were being driven to the sea by the local population.it isnt like some political fatcats made this happen.the zionists had been working on this since 1890.not in parlimentarian preceedings but literally breaking stones to build roads.it wasnt like the zionists you name traveled back in time.theodore herzl wasnt driving millions of jews from persia and sumarria west.

i dont have any links (too high sorry) but zionsim proposed uganda, and madagascar before deciding on palastine.if you take testimony from ultiple holocuast survivors as to there they thought they were being shipped to in cattle cars, the most common answer was madagascar.aside from the jews who actualy knew.those who were left to deduce guessed madagascar as it was seen as the most likely place in zionist circles.the original zionists were noticing that the living as a people with no home wasnt working in europe and needed an answer to what had become known as the jewish question.this isnt historical poetry phrasing it that way, europe had begun asking the jewish question of what to do with the jews with zionism being one solution.as a result of this question communism was born by marx who saw if jews ceased being jews no jewish question would exist as a solution.hitlers answer was the final solution.zionism wasnt created by european jews who just had a hard on for subjugating a particular group of arabs.it was created as an answer to a larger question that had literaly nothing to do with plastinians or islam.

being as lebanon,syria,and egypt had no part in governing the palastinian territory why would they have any claim to the territory.it was a british colony that was pushed back by the irgun,palmach,and haganah.
just as those who fought off the british here in america werent at the mercy of your guys judgement, why would the israelis who fought of thier british occupiers not be who has arrested control.the taliban did it in afganastan, we did it to the british.the jews conquered the current authority, and became the authority just like every other civilization in the history of anything.

i just dont understand how it would be expected for israel to give land they gained through conquest, while every single other civilization is not expected the same.further more from people who literaly have done the same exact thing.we conquered the natives, the arabs invaded he middleeast.why is israel alone expected to return lands they legitimately gained.since when do we do this, especialy when the enemy who the land was taken from is still attacking.israel gave gaza back 5 yrs ago and saw an immediate steady increase in attacks.would you invite that force closer to your people?moving people as you stated i imagine applies to civil populations as in war that is what happens.can you think of a time in the last 62 years the palastinians said today we are not at war with the israelis? this is an active warzone not two nations in a debate.
if the israelis have this illegal practice of moving palastinians how is it that almost a third of thier population is palastinian?

as far as the treatment of palastinians by israel, you are being contradictory.you can list all day the endless crimes israel is guilty of, but in any balanced perspective they dont stand out.
israel launches an overwhelming offensive in 2008 the likes of wich the palastinians stand no chance at defending themselves from, but at the same time the gazans had been launching rockets to the tune of 8 thousand in the last decade.is either one eligable to be ctagorized as worse than the other,really?

when pondering the treatment of the palastinians at the hands of the israelis put in persepctive that the israelis live under constant threat (far more so) of terror attacks,suicide bombers,not making it to a bomb shelter in time.this in conjunction with being forced to see themselves depicted as vermon in regional media, and events like the achilles lauro and those guys who were torn apart limb by limb in ramallah.we got attacked ONCE and as a result our television is filled with islamophobic content brimming with hatred, and we overthrew arab countries as a result.that is ONE event compared to israels bazillions.while i find many of the things israel does wrong i expect far worse.our citizens are on the verge of jihad because of what happened one time on one day, imagine if it were a regularity.i see israel as doing far less then any other nation would.

As I understand it Britan was not technically overthrown and they were never occupiers. At the end of WWI the league of nations accepted the British Mandate and set Palestine under British rule. Britan had been pushing for a "national home for the Jewish people" since the early 1918 or so. I believe the Israelis and British had a falling out over Britans attempt to stop immigration to Palestine during WWII. Given that Britin remained in power over Palestine until 1948 when the mandate was set to expire you cannot really say that Israel overthrew it's oppressors. There was a civil war during the process of determining Israels statehood but I believe the mandate was already set to expire by this time.

Now given that Syria, Iraq and Eqypt all attacked Israel within hours of their declaration of independance I'm willing to give Israel a break given that they were indeed fighting for their right to exist but I see this as the only time in Israels history that they were truely on the defensive.

You keep cycling back to the statement that all nations must give up the land they have aquired during conflict in all time and I see the point you are trying to make. The issue arises with the creation of the League of Nations/United Nations. Interantional law was created to protect countries from the terrors of war in the name of expansion prior to this almost all wars were fought over land aquistion. Almost all nations agree that these laws are the best chance we have at world peace and the rights of all people around the world. Unfortunatly for the native americans, persians, romans, ect. these laws or a governing body were not available in their times. That is progress. Look at the division of land after WWII and you will quickly note that Germany had lost no land it had controlled before the start of the war. The only exception I can think of is that Island the US aquired in the pacific (can't think of it's name). Using your logic there should not be a germany today since Russia, and the US occupied the country at the close of the war. This is not the case because international law made it impossible for either country to take anything not given by the German government and people.

If your willing to call into question the abilities of the UN then you must be willing to question all decisions made by the UN inclusing the acceptance of the Israeli State. The UN exists to help member countries avoid conflict and in the event of conflict to aid the member country by other means. Not to say that Israel would have found a peaceful resolution it's possible that war was a forgone conclusion but they didn't even try negotiations. It's not like everyone amassed troops over night. There was plenty of time for deplomacy.

I never ment to imply that the Zionists pushed for Palestine for a homeland (though one cannot over look the historical and religious importance) I was pointing out that once Britan had aquired the mandate that the Zionist were clear they had no intention of sharing. I can find more then a few mentions of ruling Palestine in the zionist agenda.

You know full well I do not condone the terrorist attacks against Isreal or any nation but you have to look at the body counts.

Since 2001 Israel has suffered over 8000 rocket attacks and over 1000 casualties (resulting from a variety of incidents) over the same time span (2001 to present) Palestine has suffered over 6000 casualties. Of the Israeli casualties 731 were Civilians and 123 were children (src: Remeber these children, B'Tselem and MFA) of the Palestinan casualties between 2000 and >4000 were civilians and 1400 were children. Given that Palestine has no standing army we will limit the casualties to those not involved in the fighting. Given that more Israeli soldiers die from falling down the stairs then were killed by terror incidents (src: Ma’ariv) it is hard to justify the extreme use of force against the Palestinian people.

I am able to condem the use of force by both side but you seem unable to take an objective view of Israel

My point is in Israel you have BOTH Jack Booted Thugs and intellectuals. More than likely the same Guy/Gal who invented the technology for my cellphone is not the same one torturing Palestinian boys in fields or shooting reporters from sniper towers.

and what is it again that israel should be doing differently to defend themselves?
im still waiting for that alternative that is equaly effective.................................

Stop encroaching on Palestinian land, for starters?

so let me see if i get this then.
israel building settlements in the west bank (wich by the way will be enhabited largely by those who were previously there) is encroachment on palastinian land.if the taking of that land to develope settlements is bad, than the giving of gaza to the palastinians is good.by any standards that respect any sort of balance, they israelis are giving land at a rate greater than they are taking.
if it were a matter of that, palastinians would be stoked on israel as they have given more land than they have taken.

the notion that the palastinians have a claim to the land at all is a big ????????? as well.
on the most basic human individual level of course a home is a home is a home.as a collective, as palastinians, they never had any land though.
the ottomans had it, then the british, then the jews overthrew the british.at no point was thier an independant palastine.ever in history.thier flag is the muslum flag of independance not a palastinian flag as thier was never a palastinian state.if they really want to live pre 48 they would be flying the united kingdom flag.they had no soveriegnty then.the limited land that exists as thiers to govern only became such as a result of the israelis.in 67 israel could have taken the west bank, but had no need and still doesnt.the only use for the west bank for israel is to stop terrorism.if the fatah stops, its done, just as israel isnt messing with jordan or egypt.
before 2005 gaza was never an independant state either.

when the south decided to seperate from the union what happened then?did we magicaly find a way to kill the violent element of the confederacy and then give the southern colonies back to them to rule outside of the union? we conquered that wich was a threat to us, and ruled over it.
if the palastinians lay down thier weapons thier will be peace, if israel lays down thiers, thier will be no israel.
so i ask again what is the appropriate method of defending themselves against a constant terrorist nieghboring threat.cuz taking land is the standard the world has used for millenia.what is the alternative to this that yields the same result defensively?

not pleased with one persona congoboy?

antisemite jk

Since they did displace them I'd say they should provide ADEQUATE living conditions in their SEGREGATED lands for them.

Or go one further, desegregate and allow anyone to live in Israel alongside them perhaps?

Since they did displace them I'd say they should provide ADEQUATE living conditions in their SEGREGATED lands for them

so we dont have to do this for our indiginous people, or any other civilization throughout history, but israel does? being as the palastinians only presented themselves as a opposition force, since when is any nation obligated to provide for thier enemies?should we be talking all the iraqis, afganis,vietnamese,and koreans who we displaced here to provide for them?
speaking to that israel has provided for them more than any other nation has for its enemies.from providing electricity to gaza that hamas has not, to providing humanatarian aid to the very palastinians who are trying to destroy them.we should keep indians on reservations, but palastinians should be taken care of, really?

anyone is allowed to live in israel, just like any one is allowed to live here.it is just predicated on that person not destroying the country.anytime the palastinians of the west bank or gaza want to lay down thier guns they are more than welcome to live in israel, just like the million palastinians who live in peace with jews.how many jews are allowed to live in arab countries again?
this is a two way street, and israel can only control what it does.expecting otherwise is just silly.

Israel does NOT provide electricity to Gaza. Not anymore they don't.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/04/gazas-only-power-plant-shut-down-and-no...

"Gaza, claiming that they had no electricity because Israel had cut off fuel supplies to the Hamas junta. At the time, Israel was directly supplying 75% of Gaza's electricity, and there was no real power outage."

FURTHERMORE:

"Still, Gazans have had to get used to rolling blackouts since 2006, when Israel bombed the power station after the capture of an Israeli soldier by Gaza militants."

And NO, not 'anyone' can live in Israel. Palestinians need prior approval to even travel into Israel. They can not travel past the separation fence without approval and I highly doubt they ever allow any of them to live there. Being that THEY KICKED THEM OUT IN 1947!

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=186139
being as israel had control over gaza from 1967-2005 it isnt a great leap of imagination that the electricity created for the region was heavily porvided for by the israeli government and peaople.unless you imagine gaza's last step towards improving electicity production and distribution was in 67, but we all know thats not true.

yes israel turned off the power, giving the reason that supplying electricity to those who wish to destroy them is rediculous.not only did israel GIVE gaza to the palastinians for nothing in return, they also provided electicity for them despite thier own leadership not deaming it worthy.this cites an example of how israel treats the palastinians better than hamas.hamas would rather bite the hand that feed it, and refuses stand up as men and provide for thier own.

wow you mean the poor palastinians have to live with rolling black outs.i mean in sderot if that were the constant problem they face it would be a dream come true.they have rolling blackouts as well, accompanied by qassam rockets falling on thier heads.

how many gazans spent everyday running to shelters again? i just cant seem to remember when it was when the gazans were getting shelled by sderot settlers.

as far as israel attacking the electric infrastructure, you may want to read son of hamas.it wasnt the israelis who hit that, hamas does it when they need to demonize israel.its tough business keeping people blind with hate for long periods of time.some times the israelis just dont do thier part and the gazans forget why the streets must run with the blood of the jews.dont take my word for it, ask a former hamas elite nabel yuseff i think his name is.as well as the other jihad turncoat guy whos name i never remember.
zionists will lie just like hamas and fatah do, but i mean ya cant deny first hand a-political unbias accounts of events.

im sorry if i wasnt clear in my narrative, but i was using "anyone" as a reference to groups of people, hence the if they stopped attacking part.
of course not every individual on the planet is welcome there, just as is the same in every country.as collectives every one not dedicated to damaging israel is welcome.americans,asians,australians,europeans.
same basic policy that is in place in every country, hell we have just a strict a rule (but less effort in enforcement) with mexicans.imagine what our policy would be if mexico's political foundation was the destruction of the united states of america?ya think we are rough on them now stepping foot on our soil.

you are correct.just as we dont open our territory to any and every afgani or iraqi, korean or vietnamese, i doubt israel will ever say, sure guys who have been dedicated to our destruction for over half a century welcome to the nieghborhood.

if israel kicked out the palastinians in 47, why did they keep the million?did they some how not count as palastinians?if they kicked all the palastinians out in 47 from what is now israel, who was it then that lost land in 67?

okay so forget the whoa is me nebbish, its our humor that sustains us bit then.
israel palastinians
_______________________________________________________________________________
suicide bombers: 0 ?
homemade rockets launched: 0 ?
declarations of annihalation: 0 ?
bulldozer attacks: 0 ?
highjackings: 0 ?
olympics attacks: 0 ?

yeah i can see how the palastinians arent the antagonist.
before operation cast lead in 2008, when was the last time israel attacked the palastinians again?

so if i understand at some point the palastinians abandoned the policy of no israel, but regained it because a jew walked in a mosk?
http://current.com/news/92637910_flotilla-follow-up-apathy.htm
here is some follow up on the "humanatarian" aid ship.i know its more fun to stick with the propaganda but when the truth comes out its just not an option, unless you think the bbc is part of the zionist conspiracy.

-yes palestinian they have suicide bombers and rockets but Israel are sending clusters bombs on civilians house (a Weapon of Mass destruction NON authorized by UN)!

yes the israelis have the most advanced army in the world, but thier enemy is attacking them from civilian houses.(also an unauthorized by the un act)
doesnt make israel right, and doesnt make the palastinians right.but keep pretending some how a moral equivilance exists that makes israel wrong for killing those who are actively trying to kill them.also while we are laying random information sharing, those air strikes came with phone calls to civilians giving them a warning to get out 5 minutes in advance, as well as pamphlets dropped days before thelling palastinian citizens where not to be, and who they were targeting.but hey they are baby killers rght.

id like to see all these stories of israeli bulldozers crushing palastinian families in thier homes.im just aware of rachel corries endevour, havent heard this one yet.

wanna continue? i will go round after infinate round quantifying who contributes more viloence to the conflict, as the palastinians leave us wanting for nothing.israel has her moments, but the palastinians are like the savage greatest hits list.

if its tit for tat you demand, how many jews can we serve up in the name of peace.how many more of us should be acceptably killed in the name of reciprocity.will that math be predicated on the deaths from 48 on or just operation cast lead, cuz if it is from 48 the palastinians owe us some blood.oh wait no cuz a jewish death is worth 20 times more (so the jihadists like to say) so they should be good.
how do you suppose to function under the guise of humanatarian and play the numbers game, like each life isnt infinately valuable.keep hagling statistics until you reach a number of dead you find acceptable.

if we knew what was really going on, we would take all of our troops out of iraq and afganastan and drop them in sanai and jordan.
do you imagine iraq or afganastan produces more terrorism and terrorists than the palastinian territories?

americans do get to know whats going on cuz the internet allows it in conjunction with free speech as a civil right here, and in israel.try finding opposition papers from fatah or hamas.