Community | September 03, 2010 | 115 comments

Islamist leader Burhan Hanif tells Aussie Muslims to 'shun democracy'

source: http://www.news.com.au/national/islamist-leader-burhan-hanif-tells-aussie-muslims-told-to-sh...

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eden49
LEADERS of the global Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir have called on Australian Muslims to spurn secular democracy and Western notions of moderate Islam and join the struggle for a transnational Islamic state.

British Hizb ut-Tahrir leader Burhan Hanif told participants at a conference in western Sydney yesterday that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.

"We must adhere to Islam and Islam alone," Mr Hanif told about 500 participants attending the convention in Lidcombe.

"We should not be conned or succumb to the disingenuous and flawed narrative that the only way to engage politically is through the secular democratic process. It is prohibited and haram."

He said democracy was incompatible with Islam because the Koran insisted Allah was the sole lawmaker, and Muslim political involvement could not be based on "secular and erroneous concepts such as democracy and freedom".

His view was echoed by an Australian HT official, Wassim Dourehi, who told the conference Muslims should not support "any kafir (non-believer) political party", because humans have no right to make laws.

Mr Dourehi also urged Muslims to spurn the concept of moderate Islam promoted by governments in the West, including in "this godforsaken country" of Australia.

"We need to reject this new secular version of Islam," he said. "It is a perverted concoction of Western governments.

"It is a perversion that seeks to wipe away the political aspects of Islam and localise our concerns. We must reject it and challenge the proponents of this aberration of Islam."

The conference, which followed the theme The struggle for Islam in the West' was the first major event held by the Australian branch of HT since a seminar in 2007 which coincided with calls for the group to be banned.

HT is outlawed in much of the Middle East but operates legally in more than 40 countries, campaigning for the establishment of a caliphate or Islamic state.

HT's platform rejects the use of violence in its quest for an Islamic state, but supports the military destruction of Israel.

But the group's presence sparked angry protests outside as members of the Australian Protectionist Party (APP) yelled anti-Islam chants.

The APP met in a small park to express their need to "protect" the Australian way of life.

Conflict between the APP and HT amounted to an exchange of words, anti-Islam chants and the occasional drive-by of young Muslim men yelling obscenities from their car at the APP protesters.

One passer-by, a young Muslim man, yelled at the APP group: "You people have absolutely no idea", sparking a fiery exchange of accusations and finger-pointing.

Nick Folkes, the Sydney organiser for the APP, believes that the HT should be banned in Australia and thinks that practising sharia law should be illegal in Australia.

"Sharia law is an archaic legal system that treats woman as second-class citizens," he said.

"We're not asking them to change their skin colour or religion. But if they come here, they must reject sharia law."
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115 comments // Islamist leader Burhan Hanif tells Aussie Muslims to 'shun democracy'

  • thedirtman
    • 0
      thedirtman  

    • Beware of the religious extremist behind a microphone. There are two dangers here:

      1. That the following might begin to think like the extremist.
      2. That people outside the following will begin to assume that the following thinks like the extremist.

      I think #2 is actually the bigger danger because that is how divisions begin to form. The simple response is to attack the religion, or the extremist. This serves to make division more rapid and more permanent.

      A more effective response, though a bit more complicated, is to give the following an alternative. Overstepping the division and coming into contact with the following weakens the extremist position.

      We need a global tea-party with the purpose of rejecting religious and political extremism.

    • 1 year ago
  • Sparky2U
  • Tyr
  • freecrack
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • Sparky2U:

      in your mind did it make sense that despite all previous sharia dissmeberments being done with a knife, that maybe the one that doesnt sever, and cushions the arm maybe isnt the same thing?

    • 1 year ago
  • EmperorThan
    • 0
      EmperorThan  

    • I was 'about to say' that "he has the right to free speech to say so" but then I remembered I know nothing about Australia freedom.

      I know that someone was arrested for cartoon child Lisa Simpson porn there a few years ago so they obviously don't have the same freedom we have in the USA.

    • 1 year ago
  • EmperorThan
  • ArmyJuggalo
  • charmedkitten
  • ArmyJuggalo
  • freecrack
  • ArmyJuggalo
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • ArmyJuggalo:

      then may i suggest you dont single out islam for behaviors shared by all faith based fanatics.we can withstand it, just as the world withstood christianities version of this for a thousand years.

    • 1 year ago
  • ArmyJuggalo
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • ArmyJuggalo:

      so while recognizing how unremarkable this is, instead of taking the high road by being above it you respond to it? then try to equivicate your response? if you felt this retarded hate speech were true of all religions, why would you bother to recognize this instance? seems counterproductive, unless you position is anit islam more than others.

    • 1 year ago
  • Sparky2U
  • eden49
  • Sparky2U
  • eden49
  • FtheBULLSHT
    • 0
      FtheBULLSHT  

    • Now what's needed is for an important and popular Muslim with a solid following (for lack of a better word), to step up and condemn what Burhan Hanif is saying.

      I'm all for religious freedom and I have no problem with mosques being built in America, but there needs to be a sense of separation from extremists, whether the extremists are violent or not.

    • 1 year ago
  • Stoneyroad
  • eden49
  • bklynkid
  • Sparky2U
    • +1
      Sparky2U  
    • eden49:

      wait a second, I do all the grilling and cooking while the wife reminds me to get it started and what to cook.......OMG does this mean I'm possibly part Australian? Rats I got cheated I don't have that Aussie accent. Love that accent when the ladies talk!

    • 1 year ago
  • Stoneyroad
  • bklynkid
  • ahiguy
  • common_sense_please
    • +4
      common_sense_please  

    • Wait didn't Glenn Beck just do this same thing last weekend? He held a rally where he said basically anybody who did not believe in his version of christianity was not worthy to live in America?

      Also isn't this a variation on the same crap people have been saying for weeks about how some people who happen to be private landowners and muslim at the same time want to build a building on their own property--but OMG their private property is two blocks from Ground Zero thus its now sacred ground and now suddenly they can't do whatever the heck they want with it as long as they obey all current zoning laws.

      That and isn't this quote

      "It is a perversion that seeks to wipe away the political aspects of Islam and localize our concerns. We must reject it and challenge the proponents of this aberration of Islam."

      simply a variation on the theme that basically every Tea Party candidate out there has put forward in their campaign to win against over party that gave "us" the evil/atheist/communist/marxist/nazi/racist/closet muslim/worst President ever elected in the history of the United States. And they label him all of these things because the President and some of his fellow Democrats dare to actually believe in the constitutional right to freedom of religion and to believe or not believe whatever you wish about God.

    • 1 year ago
  • Tyr
  • im1mjrpain
  • teto007
    • +1
      teto007  
    • im1mjrpain:

      we have a mirage of democracy meant to illusion us into thinking we're free from oppression and have equal opportunity but in reality the whole nation is controlled by the chosen few.

    • 1 year ago
  • musicjohnny
    • +3
      musicjohnny  
    • im1mjrpain:

      The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist No. 10).

      By popular usage, however, the word "democracy" come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy. However, there are examples of "pure democracy" at work in the United States today that would probably trouble the Framers of the Constitution if they were still alive to see them. Many states allow for policy questions to be decided directly by the people by voting on ballot initiatives or referendums. (Initiatives originate with, or are initiated by, the people while referendums originate with, or are referred to the people by, a state's legislative body.) That the Constitution does not provide for national ballot initiatives or referendums is indicative of the Framers' opposition to such mechanisms. They were not confident that the people had the time, wisdom or level-headedness to make complex decisions, such as those that are often presented on ballots on election day.

      So there you go. Technically a Republic with shades of Democracy thrown in for good measure.

    • 1 year ago
  • im1mjrpain
  • Stoneyroad
  • freecrack
  • Stoneyroad
    • 0
      Stoneyroad  
    • im1mjrpain:

      That old line . .
      It's funny how Republicans never use that quote when they are the wolves in the majority.

      Also, the right wing wants that wolf Democracy vote to keep Gay sheep from getting married.

      Stop acting like the words Republic=Republican & Democracy=Democrats.

    • 1 year ago
  • Sparky2U
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • Sparky2U:

      so christianity and islam are functioning equaly malevolently.
      well actualy christians are worse in this regard as they go outside of the law of the land to kill gays.

    • 1 year ago
  • ArmyJuggalo
  • Sparky2U
    • 0
      Sparky2U  
    • freecrack:

      Give me a break, and an example of Christians killing gays freecrack. That comment is completely nuts. I wonder what the stats are on Gay marriage and Domestic Violence anyone know?

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • Sparky2U:

      http://research106.pbworks.com/Gay-Bashing
      this link is the fbi's stats, but if that doesnt satisfy feel free to google "gay bashing statistics" as no shortage of them exists.
      in our culture homosexuality has opposition that isnt pushed by muslims,jews,siiks,buddists,or athiests.this is a christian endevour.it isnt as if when evaluating organizations dedicated to an anti-gay agenda jews and christians are standing shoulder to shoulder, christianity stands alone.while all these religions may not wholey endorse it, only christianity is pro-active in this endevour.
      feel free to watch the laramie project as it cronicles the after math of the matthew sheppard incident.
      fanatical jews arent beating and killing gays.
      fanatical muslims arent beathing and killing gays.
      fanatical christians own this endevour in our society.westborough baptist church ring a bell, or does thier other name ring a bell better for you, "god hates fags".
      any muslim groups so invested in gay bashing they focus thier endevours in this fashion?

      as far as domestic violence in gay marraige goes that is a rediculous question as gay marraige doesnt exist on a level that can be subject to any substative evaluation.might as well ask what the stats are of driving while stoned versus dwi.as long as it is illegal by and large no accurate evaluation can be made.

    • 1 year ago
  • Eddie_Miller
  • Eddie_Miller
    • 0
      Eddie_Miller  
    • musicjohnny:

      my polysci professor has been teaching that a democracy really has nothing to do with the voting or rights of people and that it is only a system that facilitates a peaceful transfer of power between political groups

    • 1 year ago
  • remanns
  • remanns
  • remanns
  • bklynkid
  • Eddie_Miller
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • Eddie_Miller:

      that has always been a major point of ironic idiocy on the part of the faithfull to me.how can you believe that god has the power to create all of existance, all life,flood the earth,riegn plagues, but some how cant handle the gays.like that is the point at wich god is just tapped out and needs human efforts to pick up the slack he cant handle.
      either they are saying god is dead by hating on gays(god would smite them but is taking nap?), or supposing that thier individual evaluations supercede gods will, wich is to allow homosexuality as it clearly exists with in his framework of existance.in all manors of reasoning it is just anti-god to persecute gays.

    • 1 year ago
  • Eddie_Miller
    • +1
      Eddie_Miller  
    • freecrack:

      its really sad that the followers of these people don't see that the leaders are actually violating their own beliefs in their own interest and claiming they know what "god" wants

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
  • tylervictoria1
  • thetrimsmith
  • tylervictoria1
  • thetrimsmith
    • +2
      thetrimsmith  
    • tylervictoria1:

      In my opinion we have had two of the worst Presidents, back to back, in our history. The election of 2000 was the death knell of Democracy and the birth of the long building Corporate Fascism. That was the point of the ''dumbest quote of the day''. Do you honestly believe we live in a Democracy?

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
  • tylervictoria1
    • 0
      tylervictoria1  
    • thetrimsmith:

      No system of government is perfect, you're totally glib if you think they are. My problem with your first quote is that you took a few instances where you think democracy worked poorly and cast down the whole system. Try being more specific, otherwise you just sound kind of dumb. I can agree that we, as a country are headed southward, but I can honestly say that democracy is the only form of government I can sit under.

    • 1 year ago
  • thetrimsmith
  • thetrimsmith
    • +1
      thetrimsmith  
    • tylervictoria1:

      Humans will never govern efficiently, any form of government by us is doomed to failure by our very nature of distrust and greed. America's try at Democracy lasted a little over 200 years, killed by the Bush fiasco of 2000. The rich rise to the top of any government structure, to influence and rule. Thereby setting resentment and rebellion of the government in motion. Although the brainwashing reach of the modern Media has stalled that natural balance.

    • 1 year ago
  • tylervictoria1
  • thetrimsmith
  • tylervictoria1
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • thetrimsmith:

      yup, but i ain bitchin.i know we suck, and how but i want to fix it, not shunn it.
      fixing it takes work, if you want to shun democracy you literaly can.i cant just snap my fingers and fix it, but you can leave.

    • 1 year ago
  • Sparky2U
  • Moops803
    • +3
      Moops803  

    • These guys are dangerous because they genuinely believe that their laws were created by GOD. Come on people! Every religion's holy books were written by MEN. Whenever someone claims to know for certain what god wants or thinks, that person becomes dangerous. Humankind has been around long enough to start making decisions in the name of GOOD, not in the name of GOD. That second "O" is important.

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
  • notrepublican
  • musicjohnny
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • notrepublican:

      that is what religion is.religion doesnt leave room for duapoly.
      the abrahamic tradition is a thing of beauty in that it was the begining of what we recognize today as freedom.it was the first attempt at creating laws that if we all individualy adhered to, we could self govern as opposed to being subject to a kings mandates.but the very divinity that empowered people to use thier free will, doesnt allow for coalition with any governmental system, hence the jews getting thier ass's kicked for two thousand years in europe.if they could have adapted jewish law to regional law no division would have existed.
      islam,judaism,and christianity all dont recognize politics or governments as they are flawed by the men, not god, that made them.its just a douchebag move to attack democracy despite it availing us more than enough freedom to adhere to what ever spiritual laws we seek.

    • 1 year ago
  • remanns
  • remanns
  • H2O_4U
    • -3
      H2O_4U  

    • Australia is a completely racist nation, they let their companies abuse the aboriginal tribes constantly so i'm not surprised at all to hear them force a minority to give up his or her culture and religion. Sad day
      Capitalist societies always breed racism

    • 1 year ago
  • musicjohnny
    • +1
      musicjohnny  
    • H2O_4U:

      Ok, I'm just throwing this out there, but is it really racist to simply not agree with a religious sect that wants to abolish everything your country stands for? It seems pretty obvious to me...

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • H2O_4U:

      how many countries leaders stood before thier nation's and apalogized to them for the treatment of it's aboriginal population?
      so far australia is the only one.if they are racist america and europe are demonic

    • 1 year ago
  • eden49
  • eden49
    • -1
      eden49  
    • H2O_4U:

      ...I won't get into a racist debate with you, suffice to say, most Auzzies don't tolerate "dickheads", and we take that to the ballott box...and obscure religious hatemongers also get the bum's rush...and as to your crack about our Indigenous Australians, they are treated pretty bloody well Down Under in this day and age...no questions asked...everything is free for them, housing, education, and HEALTHCARE...we owe them a lot...they are bloody wonderful people...

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
  • freecrack
  • eden49
    • 0
      eden49  
    • freecrack:

      apropos FC...?...if you're referring to Auzzie press highlighting these wankers, well, that's a good thing...I always like to get a leg up on what dastardly deeds are being harched in my own backyard...that is, if that's what you meant...it was a bit vague for me...

    • 1 year ago
  • eden49
    • 0
      eden49  
    • freecrack:

      FC...if you went to the outback, and hooked up with some of our Elders, you would have a ball...they are the gentlest, most hospitable, no frills, hearts on this Island...

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • eden49:

      oh no im sure they are just fine, i think hollywood has made thier appearance seem a little frightenting to me.im not prejudicial about it, it just freaks me out a lil kind of like albinos

    • 1 year ago
  • Sparky2U
  • freecrack
    • +1
      freecrack  
    • eden49:

      im just saying even the most topical evaluation of auzzie culture displays how not racist or hatefull you guys are.i mean who have you waged war on again lately compared to say everyone else?

    • 1 year ago
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • Sparky2U:

      yeah cuz that makes sense.
      the really funny part is im an exterminator lol.like calling a surgeon squimish at the sight of blood.
      im just saying what are the odds of you drawing such a perfectly wrong comparison lol.

    • 1 year ago
  • alexandrek
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • alexandrek:

      thats what im saying, the negative human acts arent exceeding any other cultures.i mean you wanna talk german history, it stands in a catagory unto itself, but australia is just like anyplace else.
      but at the end of the day, they have been more progressive than the rest of the supposed free western world.europe is banning burkas, while we are just seething with hatred of islam.australians had a tearfull unification of cultures through thier pres apaogizing to the aboriginies for the treatement they had recieved.i mean they kind of trump the rest of the world in benevolent acts.

    • 1 year ago
  • galwayman
    • 0
      galwayman  

    • Caro darlin' you'll be getting me in trouble sending this to me for comment lol! There is no doubt that Islam and it's steath jihad is well under way in every western nation! The Islamofacists seek to wipe out our culture and way of life and the freedoms we enjoy! Be warned caro it will get worse! They are the enemy of all we hold as truths to be self evident,the right to self determination,time for those who seek to defend freedom,get ready,get organized! here we are just a couple of generations away,europe maybe sooner! look at return of an increase of jewish hatred,the the willing of citizens to except less rights,POLITICAL CORRECTNESS that we be the west's downfall Caro! The disarming of the populace! read,learn,prepare yourself and teach your children well! [think Nazi's] just as insane and brutal,more then we can possibly imagine! Islam has always done the same everywhere it goes!

    • 1 year ago
  • tylervictoria1
  • eden49
    • 0
      eden49  
    • galwayman:

      ...don't worry, darlin', the powers that be would be all over this group of wackos...they'll never get a voice down under...any of them...

      ...most Auzzies, just enjoy the beach, a cold beer and a fair go...religion plays a very minor part for the majority...

    • 1 year ago
  • Sparky2U
  • freecrack
    • 0
      freecrack  
    • Sparky2U:

      a human being who doesnt believe people are limited to being nothing more than members of a blanket statement.
      care to translate what islam literaly means in arabic?
      ill give you a hint salam is peace like shalom is to jews.based on simple otomonopoetic guess work take a stab at what islam means.

    • 1 year ago
  • littlwarrior
  • musicjohnny
  • littlwarrior
    • +3
      littlwarrior  

    • Well then go home, dont go bringing your stange theocracys round here, we are still fighting to get rid of our own theocracy, we dont need a new one trying to fill the void. you want to be a free, honest and contributing citizen we welcome you with open arms, you want to take over and enforce your religion and I promise you it wont be pretty. I like pork and I like my whiskey, and I like the women in my family not needing to hold my hand to leave the house, I dont have time to take them every where they need to go honelstly.

    • 1 year ago
  • tylervictoria1
  • Sparky2U
    • 0
      Sparky2U  
    • littlwarrior:

      It's the Mall and window shopping that gets me. I try to be brave and hang in there but man it gets boring.
      I suggested a great way to stop the Insurgents in their tracks but the military won't listen,
      here it is. Have the soldiers dip the tip of all their ammo in pigs blood. Every time a Muslim gets capped they go straight to that feiry inferno! Put out the word that they are doing it and watch the cowards hide in their caves!

    • 1 year ago
  • littlwarrior
    • 0
      littlwarrior  
    • Sparky2U:

      dont get me wrong i love the mall and the window shopping. But im gayer than a pink mazda miata with a pound of skittles in the front seat and glitter for exauhst. I just have enough of my own stuff to do and the women in my family are out alot, they never stay home, one of us would have to dedicate our entire lives to making sure they have and escort. The pigs blood is not a bad idea.

    • 1 year ago
  • Incredulous
    • +7
      Incredulous  

    • I particularly resent the way these extremist Islamic groups take advantage of the hospitality of some of the most freedom loving nations out there, and then the fact that their youth have the audacity to shout obscenities at the people who allowed them in their countries in the first place.

      I remember watching a video that I think freecrack posted about Islamic youth in the Nederlands attacking and insulting Jewish people on the street. I agree with UtopianSky...let them go live in Iran, or Ksirys idea, a rock island might work well too.

    • 1 year ago
  • eden49
  • freecrack
    • +1
      freecrack  
    • Incredulous:

      (im turning in to a troll)
      i know it has little to nothing to do with this story, but remember that element the next time some one tells you of how under represented the palastinians are in israeli government, or how thier homes were "stolen".
      when you present yourself as an aggressor you are treated as such, especially when no room for placating exists.

    • 1 year ago
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