Violence and the Biblical God, I guess from scripture we can assume Christianity is as violent as Islam!

The time is here that you should pull your head from the sand and look around. If you don't know right from wrong, then you are unaccountable, and a 2nd coming is not going to fix it.

It's about time!

My fishing buddy Ron nails that right here...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/holland/holland27.1.html

no, they are just telling others to die or kill themselves if they don't follow the bible...

You've never been to Northern Ireland.

Yeah........

Protestant christian victims of Roman catholic terror.

words.. not action.

I can tell you of at least 6 deadly attacks in the last 24 hrs alone due to jihadist.
While for christian radicals, I can't name non.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/09/07/pakistan.blast/#fbid=LtRk3Q7Npv7&wom=false

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/09/09/somalia.bombing/index.html?iref=N...=LtRk3Q7Npv7&wom=false

http://www.wbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=13120652

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125645983124706251.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/russian-market-deadly-car-bomb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11246612

Here's some action.
http://current.com/http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afgha...
Maybe there is a cause and effect thing going from way back. How much would you take?

It is not religiously motivated but by degraded values and shredded psyche.

Sorry, but nice try.

So what's the difference? Does the media have to tell you it was "the other team" before you give credence? That is exactly their design.

you love islam so much why not adopt Sharia?

For the same reason I do not follow the laws of Deuteronomy.

That's why...........Roman catholic terrorizing christian protestant..... and plus I'm talking about suicide carbomb on a rapid interval in modern times foo.

Last time I checked roman cotholics were christians also.

http://www.indyposted.com/110351/facebook-helps-catch-would-be-abortion-clinic-b...

--Snip--The man, who calls himself “the Christian counterpart of Osama Bin Laden” is now facing 20 years in prison aver [sic] Planned Parenthood contacted the FBI about his page reported the Charlotte Observer.--Snip--

Rev. Fred Phelps' 1995 conviction for assault and battery carried a five-year prison sentence, with a mandatory 18 months to be served before he became eligible for parole.

Just a couple of items.

Too remain optimistic is a good thing! And to teach optimism wherever you can is also a good thing. In fact with your great comment you are teaching optimism right now!

Very good points. I feel that religion is waning but certainly not fast enough. When we have leaders that truly believe Jesus will return or that martyrdom is noble; we, my friend are in trouble. I don't hold much hope that those who continue to believe in imaginary beings will die out very soon.

If humans don't destroy ourselves I feel we might evolve out of the dark. Unfortunately, I won't live to see it.

In other words . . . God was made in mans image.

Totally absurd! Two thumbs up.

"But enough evil Muslim's have blinded millions around the world into thinking that the Billion that are Muslim's are all evil."

...actually, I think that was the media.

Your beef is with them.

I think the media has definitely done a bad job! I wonder what God the media prays too? $$$$$$$$$

Wasn't this guy a Nazi during the war? And yet he has achieved the highest rank in the Catholic Church.

The web of corrupted power has had it's grip on the world for decades!

It is getting ridiculous, this guy, the Pastor is a moron!

B.C.

Awesome!

Ah yes the riddle of Epicurus... defeating religion with logic for the past 2000+ years.

"Before the Common era", to me that's what BC stands for

very nice!!

The point was that it would be hard to find a Christian in 341-270 BC.
I'm surprised you didn't see that before you posted it.

+'d, although there is an answer to the riddle.

that would be BCE
which would make "AD" = CE "Common Era"

Epicurus was Greek from Athens
the Ancient Greeks were Pagan Polytheists
who worshipped all the Elemental Gods and Goddesses of the forces of Nature of the Olympian Pantheon

As much as I understand your revulsion with the damage ignorant religiosity has done throughout the history of the planet, no, we shouldn't be burning religious books.
Such actions only stoke anger and reaction. (As I think you well know, by seeing the example of the narcissistic psycho "Reverend" in Florida now trying to do the same.)
Even fairy tales are useful books in some regard.
Knowledge gained through education helps. Trying to assert aggressive control over others, and what they believe, does not.

In some ways I agree with you, but it's 2010, going to 2011... how many more years do people need to realize the lies, religion is telling?

How much patience, education and time do people need? I'm sorry, but it took me 18 yrs (at the age of 19) to figure out the lies and I'm no genius!! lol..

any god that gives me free will then damns me to eternal hell for using it is not worth my time to worship, and if i ever meet God ill tell them that to there face.

The problem is there are many internal contradictions in this belief.

If God is all powerful, and God created the universe and all of the spiritual laws that apply in that universe, then how can God be "working" to get rid of sin?

If God is all powerful and does not want sin, then POOF is should be gone.

If God did not want a universe WITH sin, then he need not have created it in the first place.

If God wanted to create a methodology for the people of this planet to be absolved of sin, the best way he could think to do so was a human sacrifice?

Think about it- first, millions of people died before this absolution occurred. Does God not have foresight?

Second, this human sacrifice was very cultural-specific. People in Asia and Africa to this day have never heard of it. Does God not love everyone equally?

And, by being culture-specific, even if people do hear about it, they would not believe it; the same way you can hear about their religions, and not believe them. Can't God be a bit more obvious and direct?

You say God has no choice, and that God is forced- but you forget that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and created everything. Those are some big concepts there that people keep forgetting. He controls the rules of the game, so the game does not force him to do anything.

He invented the whole concepts of sin, judgment, and this human sacrifice exit, so it's all up to him, all his will.

And, if these are the rules of the game that he set up, then he does NOT fit the definition of an all-loving god.

He could have simply parted the clouds, played the trumpets, and announced to the world that he exists, and there is no more sin or judgment!

And he could have done that not simply thousands of years ago- but millions of years ago.

We would have no religions, and no atheism, since existence of God would be obvious- he's the big face in the sky, and these glowing people with wings are running around everywhere spreading his messages.

But instead, you say God chose to be obscure, vague, self-contradictory, and regional, to fix a problem that he caused that we have to pay for.

Look at everything that you wrote- it is all about the concept of God making mistakes, or of things going wrong, when this being is supposedly perfect.

How do you reconcile that?

And, you believe that animal sacrifices DO wash away sin, albeit temporarily?

You believe in a God that would reward people for animal sacrifices by removing sin?

God wants or needs animals to be sacrificed for him?

This is a perfect God?

You choose to believe this?

Per KJ, God is not "working" to get rid of sin. That's the chore of man.
You can easily answer all your questions with minimal research.
But you will have to actually look for the answers.

The previous poster claimed God was working to get rid of sin, so I replied based on his beliefs.

If you would like to state your beliefs, I will reply based on them.

And I HAVE done the research, thanks.
That's why I'm not a Christian.

My questions were not those of someone unaware of facts asking for information- they were of someone pointing out contradictions, inconsistencies, and really silly things by asking why someone would believe such a thing.

From Greek philosopher Epicurius, courtesy of Jonathan Miller's "A History of Disbelief" on PBS:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Pretty sound reasoning to me. Gotta love the way the Greeks got to the heart of things.

This logic denies free will.

So does the entire belief in an omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, all-seeing, all-knowing god who is always present everywhere and who regularly and frequently conscientiously intervenes and interferes with in the day-to-day affairs of the everyday lives of human beings all around the world and throughout history

The whole idea that the Best-selling book of all time, a collection of allegorical fables and fanciful fantastical hallucinogenic- induced dreams, must have been dictated to its multiple authors by some non-corporeal, amorphous, higher intelligence;

and that human beings, all by themselves and irregardless of any greater power, could not have come up with the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" of the Ten Commandments, the "To Everything There is A Season And A time For Every Purpose Under Heaven" of Ecclesiastes, or the "Blessed are the Peacemakers" of Sermon on the Mount

for my own personal self, in my opinion, this demeans the capabilities of Human Beings, and the great things that the Human race as a species are more than capable of accomplishing

All Good that People do is Human Good
All Evil that People do is Human Evil
All People make their very own personal Heaven
All People make their very own personal Hell

+^d

Nice, ezrierin!

I love to set you free. I enjoy your imagination. I believe that you Christians have an “ahh” experience when you are filled with what you call the “Holy Spirit.” Indefinable. To not conceive or perceive but to feel that which we cannot say. Your “rock” metaphor. “Ah, but man cannot live on literal bread alone; he must have metaphor.”
They knew then that it was Zen. The Jews of old did not write from the concrete or exoteric, they wrote from the esoteric to the concrete. There was a deliberate attempt to avoid the literal. The esoteric meaning of the “rock” for instance. It was not Satan’s desire to see Jesus turn a bolder into a loaf of Rainbow Bread, he meant; ‘Now that you are enlightened, use your knowledge to make money.’
Jesus had his “ahh” moment, his enlightenment, recorded in the New Testament when John the Baptist, baptized Jesus. Luke 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."
The event was marked as so significant in the life of Jesus by the very idea of a god speaking from above. Why? Because Jesus had the same experience that Siddhārtha Gautama had some 500 years earlier, as Siddhārtha sat under the Bodhi Tree ie “enlightenment” (Mind you no degradation of the Jesus story intended at all).
When the devil tempts Jesus in the wilderness, a guy in a bad red costume and pitchfork didn’t show up and say, “Hey, Dude, check this out!”
Satan is the metaphor for when Jesus considered going back to his old life as a man, a carpenter, or to go forth and try and convey enlightenment to others. What you Christians call the Holy Spirit.
Jesus knelt before John and with water poured over his head he felt the enlightenment, the “ahh” moment, indescribable. I have seen Christians experience the “ahh” moment by lifting up a hand and just asking to be filled with “the Holy Spirit.” I felt it first meditating under a pine tree by my home. I will make a fool of myself and a “rock” here by saying it is to feel the “cosmic consciousness,” indescribable, but tangible.
Then there is the most common experience. The lighting up of the brain, the ending of thought or words in the mind, the letting go, the feel of heaven on earth, an orgasm or “little death.”
How we explain it, or describe it, it does not matter. We all feel it the same.

Whatever faith did melt unavoidable, but truth remains.
You left me no repose Einsam_Data. I always warn of thaw when dared. But you left me no repose. “You’re gonna carry that weight…”
I do so love Rain. You must have read "Gotta Knock A Little Harder." Thanks for that ahh. Peace.

I'm glad you wrote about the experience of that ineffable moment of enlightenment.

The one thing that I took away from a childhood in the Catholic Church was the wonderful concept of "a state of grace."
I know it's not exclusive to Catholicism, or to any other religious practice alone, but it does describe an all too rare feeling of sublime connection that does seem to hint at, if not demonstrate, something "other" for us all beyond the clumsy muck of our daily crashing about on the planet.
It may of course be simply biological, (I expect I'll hear from my friend Matrix about this any minute), but still, it is a profound experience, and a wonderful one.

Like Jesus, like Buddha, and many others who fully open their consciousness and even briefly free themselves from the incessant chatter of our "monkey mind" that transcendental moment of realization and bliss is there for all of us.

I don't really wish to counter your point or such, but I do find it interesting that you use a song from an anime that only seriously addressed the concept of religion in the 23rd episode out of 26 episodes and 1 movie total. And that particular episode dealt with a religion that was more a cult than anything else.

Bitchin' series though. Cowboy Bebop is definitely one of my all time favorites.

The way i see it,
if there is a god,
then god is either
a.) Malevolent
b.) negligent
or
c.) incompetent

the sheer volume of the death, destruction, suffering, sickness, terror, and violence in the world would easily lead any dispassionate outside observer to conclude that, if there is an omnipresent god, then that god MUST be, if not actively participatory in these evils, then at the very least be complicit in their activity.
This would mean that we would be dealing with a MALEVOLENT, manipulative, vindictive, vengeful, and sadistic sociopath as our god

if god is IS all-knowing, then god must know such evils exist.
if god is not an active participant nor an accessory accomplice, and, despite knowing such suffering, violence, death, and destruction exist, either conscientiously chooses not to act, or simply doesn't care
Then god is, at the very least, to be putting it mildly, guilty as charged of the crime of NEGLIGENT Homicide on a truly MASSIVE scale.

If, knowing that suffering and violence, death and destruction are occurring, this god is, either by his/her/their/its nature or by default, UNABLE to take any action to prevent or even put an end to such evil;
then, as the omnipotent lord of all creation, the heavens and the earth, this god would therefore be INCOMPETENT in his/her/their/its duties, and would thereby be unworthy and undeserving to be a god at all

God created the heavens and earth.
he created earth to nourish man
he created man to live on this earth.
He gave man free will to live his life for good or evil.
we will be judged on how well we live the life given.
This is not heaven but an incubator for Angels.
Prove yourself worthy, follow the teachings of Christ.
All suffering of man is caused by man.
The earth is abundant yet they starve due to political corruption.
man are persecuted by man.
Man make their homes and build cities under the shadow of volcanoes, on the coast where hurricanes frequent, in flood plains that flood every year, live in arid regions where food is scarce yet vast fertile regions of earth go un-toiled.

I Don't criticize you for your outlook. Most Christians today whine and complain because their life is not perfect and they also blame God.
so what ever state of being ,place or non-place , non-existence that non-believers may have after this life they will have a lot if not most proclaimed Christians to keep them company.

just so you don't think I'm being Holier then thou, about the only way ill get to heaven is if God grades on a curve and 50 is a passing grade.

Bonobos and chimpanzees probably believe that Africa was created for their purpose
Gorillas probably believe the mountains were created for them to live in
Orangutans probably think that the jungles of Indonesia were created so that they could swing in the trees

I happen to know for a fact that dogs believe that we humans were put on this Earth in order to feed them and to give them treats and take them on walks

cats for certain are under the strong belief that people exist solely to feed and serve their every need

the only reason that humans believe that god created the Earth for US,
is because WE CREATED god for OUR own purposes

The person in the everyday world, whose life most resembles that of Jesus
is the Homeless hobo dressed in rags and sandals
holding the cardboard and permanent marker "the end is near" sign, pounding on the doors of the city hall courthouse and calling out at the op of his lungs to anyone and everyone within earshot about how he knows more better than anyone else, and how "the system" is evil.

I have never in my life met or heard of anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" and who pays any adherence at all whatsoever to anything Jeshua Ben Josef of Nazareth actually said during his life

Interesting I too have believed that dogs think that men were put here to serve them. Think about it if an advanced life form from another planet was observing us and he saw a man walking a dog then watches the man pick up the dog poop who do you think they will think is in charge.

Really? His clothes were 'period correct," he only wrote in the dirt, his only pounding was of the moneychangers in the temple, not "city hall" doors. If your logic is as flawed as your facts...well...let's just say maybe you need to get out more. Pick up a book, meet more people.

Does that include when we cut their nuts off?

Point

Here is what the historical record says:

Jeshua Ben Josef of Nazareth was born in March or April of the year 6 CE [AD]; during the reign of the Hebrew King Herod the Great; in the village of Bethlehem in the Roman-occupied province of Judea.

The planet Jupiter appearing in the constellation of Pisces [the fish]; was the signal, to Astrologers (or, in the New Testament, “Wise Men”) from the University in Baghdad, or perhaps the Library of Alexandria in Ptolemaic Egypt; that, as their ancient scriptures for told, the Judaic “Messiah” prophesied in prehistoric ancient Hebrew scriptures had been born somewhere in the promised Holy Land of what is now Israel; and they began a Pilgrimage (either to or from the East, depending on interpretation), bearing gifts of gold, incense, and ointment for the newly born “King”, a descendant of the royal blood line of David and Solomon.

Baptized in the River Jordan by a Priest named John, Jeshua Ben Josef wandered in the wilderness for several months, becoming an iconoclastic Jewish Rabbi, preacher, and “Medicine Man” (Exorcist).

He recruited assistant preachers (“disciples”) from John’s followers, including his wife, a well-to-do woman of the Tribe of Benjamin, named Mary Magdalene.

Turned in by the political authorities at the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem, A Hebrew-Judaic priest and rabbi, He was arrested, tried, and convicted of subversion and sedition by the occupying Romans, and the regional Provincial governor, Pontius Pilate; and was executed on Passover, by Crucifixion (a fairly common practice by the Romans amongst the Empire] along with alongside thieves, murderers, rapists and other common criminals, on the hill of Gol Gotham outside the City of Jerusalem in December of the year 36 CE; his body cut down early on Friday (executions on the Jewish Sabbath are prohibited to this day), and was interred and buried three days later in a cave somewhere in what is now Israel.

Um, the Vatican did not start all three religions.

Judaism is about 5,000 years old. It evolved from the polytheistic faiths of nomadic Semitic people, combined with monotheistic influences from Egypt and Zoroastrianism.

Christianity began about 2,000 years ago as a reform movement within Judaism, and was then co-opted as a political tool by the Roman Empire, which then evolved into the Vatican.

Islam is about 1,500 years old, before the Vatican, again as a reform movement to "correct" the teachings of the Torah and Gospels. It too was taken as a political tool to oppress and control the populace.

sorry, but you have reached his voice mail, please leave a message and he'll get back to you when you die... while you're alive, he sees no one and replies to no one...

i should try his facebook page.

yes! maybe... =D

I didn't know many dope smoking welfarians who were violent evangelical right wingers. Hard to be a violent right winger while scarfing brownies.

Hah!

Check this out. The troll that likes to break wind on most topics gets a little sensitive when you press the right buttons!

Still can't follow the fucking train of thought. Must be all the dope.

You pick up a weapon and fight, because you lack the intelligence to do anything else.

The rest of us realize there is a chain of cause and effect- and it's best to go after the cause.