'Draw Mohammed Day' cartoonist goes into hiding / changes identity

Law and Order: Los Angeles

Freedom can only exist because we can place our perspective beyond the self. The people getting mad here are the ones constricted by the superego, living without the comprehension and transcendence of their own limitations of understanding. Interesting user name, hope I see more of you!

Yes violence is lot worse than merely offending someone. That is not my point! Just because someone does something violent, that is not an excuse to do something "not as bad," but still morally dubious. I agree that radical Muslims should restrain themselves. You said that once violence is ended, i.e. they stop doing what offends us (violence is a very serious offense), they will earn some respect. You see as long as they keep doing what "we" don't like, no dialogue can be opened. Same goes with "us"! People cannot keep doing something that offends and upsets a person and expect open dialogue with them.

You obviously missed the point of the analogy. I was talking about reasonable requests which you and other individuals comply with daily.

"While it might be true that "millions of other Muslims are asking politely for you not to draw Mohammad" but they are not the problem, if it was only a matter of respect then it would be a lot easier to address without the violence."

To go back to the neighbor analogy (maybe you will get it this time): Imagine a person who is blaring their stereo. He thinks this is justified because last night his neighbor on the right kept him up all night with loud music. The neighbor on the man's left then comes and politely asks the man to turn down his music because he is studying. Are you justified to keep blaring your stereo even though the offense has spread to more people than your intended target? What if the right neighbor threatened you with violence if you didn't turn it down, is it then justifiable to keep blaring your radio to prove that you aren't scared of his threats? The answer to both of these questions is: no (at least for anybody who adheres to any sort of reasonable moral code). The simple answer is "two wrongs don't make a right." Meaning one persons immoral act never justifies another persons immoral act, no matter how trivial or grand the act. Furthermore, acts of offense only multiply, especially with ignorance as the fertilizer. Suppose you didn't turn down your radio at your neighbors request, so they decide to blare their radio in response. With absence of a reasonable person, the whole apartment complex would soon be a cacophony of loud garbled music.

The second question brings a new element to the situation: personal pride. In this case the person would be motivated to keep blaring his radio out of FEAR of appearing weak to his neighbor. The only end this would serve for the person would be to gain a fleeting sense of smug happiness. It will in no way solve problems between the two neighbors, but only serve to intensify them. I know that it is a psychological fact that humans don't like to appear weak or give the impression they gave in to outside pressure. I get caught up in appearances myself sometimes. But in a lot of cases, people need to learn how to swallow their selfish pride.

I challenge you, and everybody who draws/drew Mohammad, to dissect your goals and motivations. I am certain, you will find their roots to be selfishness and fear. Selfishness, because you want to maintain a certain appearance at the expense of others. Fearfulness, because you are afraid others might think you are weak. The driving fear would be that you are afraid that you don't have control over your own life or actions. In this case, you draw Mohammad in an attempt to prove to yourself that you are free, that you can do what you want. Just the fact that you feel you need to prove you are free, tells me that you have much self actualization to achieve. Which is not a bad thing. Freedom is not something that can be proven and to do something solely as an exercise of freedom is illogical. In addition, it becomes immoral when it offends or upsets people. I normally like to keep my posts unbiased, but I intentionally made this personal, because I really believe I am correct in what motivates you.

"But what I can't understand is why those millions don't speak out against those extremists that are giving all Muslims a bad name, why don't they use whatever influence they have to curb the radicals among them?"

Muslims do speak out against it. The Muslim Imam funding the proposed mosque in New York spoke out against violence (there is Jon Stewart clip showing it on current right now). I have heard others Muslims speak out against violence, like Irshad Manji who wrote the book "The Problem With Islam." My Muslim sister and brother-in-law speak out against violence all the time in online forums. Even the Saudi King and several princes speak out against terrorism. If you really want me too, I could find many more examples. Americans want to focus on the negative aspects of Islam, so positive, reasonable Muslims are often downplayed or ignored in favor of extremists.

" As it has been said "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." ...Edmund Burke"

That is true, but doing the wrong things or unrelated things has the same, or even worse, effect of doing nothing.

" Why don't people hear more from them to try and balance out the extremists?'

Again people, including the media only focus on the negative. They thrive on the tension between Islam and the west.

Lastly, drawing an image because someone does not want you to is not an example of creative freedom. In fact it is the opposite. You are allowing others to dictate what you create.

I would draw Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, Moses and any other religious figure just to piss people off because it's ridiculous that someone can get so violently angry over something so stupid.

It is ridiculous that people get so violently angry over such things, but not as ridiculous as people who do things for no other reason than to get someone violently upset.

You're still missing the point when you equate one with the other.

Would you get the difference if someone were to kill your mother in front of you and someone else draw an offensive picture of her? Would you still give the one that caused her death any respect? Would it be easier to forgive the one they drew her image?

It's the intimidation that has to be opposed and the violence that makes it a much more serious crime and until that is ended, bowing to the pressure of what those are trying to force on people is not a solution

Other religions don't go out a kill people for making fun of their icons, why would they be special?

"Would you get the difference if someone were to kill your mother in front of you and someone else draw an offensive picture of her?" Yes there is a big difference there.

"Would you still give the one that caused her death any respect?" Depends. I do know I would not go out of my way to disrespect them, especially if it meant disrespecting people who were not involved.

"Would it be easier to forgive the one they drew her image?" Most likely.

"It's the intimidation that has to be opposed and the violence that makes it a much more serious crime and until that is ended, bowing to the pressure of what those are trying to force on people is not a solution"

First off, not drawing the prophet is not bowing to intimidation when you never intended to draw the prophet in the first place. If some one tells me that they are going to kill me if I draw a picture of Jesus snorting coke off Judas' bum, I am not bowing to intimidation if I don't draw that picture. I would not draw it because I had no desire to draw it. To do something just because someone doesn't want you to is immature.

Second, adding fuel to the fire is not the solution either. How is angering people my intentionally offending them going to solve anything?

"Other religions don't go out a kill people for making fun of their icons, why would they be special?"

I never claimed anybody was special and other religions have nothing to do with the topic. In fact religion really has nothing to do with the topic. Its about actions that offend people, the root of that offense doesn't even have to be an issue.

I believe I have addressed every issue you have brought up. I wish you would do me the same courtesy, as many of my questions and arguments you have largely ignored.

"Depends. I do know I would not go out of my way to disrespect them"

Either you're lying, you REALLY hate your mother or you don't have any reverence for life at all.

Offending people goes WAAAY down the list of grievances from people getting physically damaged. Untill you get that, there is no point in addressing anything else.

There are very few justifiable reasons to get violently angry to the point of killing someone.

There's a reason to do something 'simple,' like draw a religious figure, to get someone violently upset and that is to show the psychotic nature of some people. So I wouldn't do it 'just' to get someone violently upset.

Cartoon artists are somewhat in danger if they draw Mohammed and if your a satirical cartoonist than not drawing Mohammed could be considered bowing to intimidation. There are definitely crazy Christians and Jews out there, but I feel cartoonists don't have to fear for their lives if they draw a funny or possibly distasteful picture of Jesus or Moses.

South Park had to censor their episode with Mohammed, that's bowing to intimidation.

South Park had to censor their episode with Mohammed, that's bowing to intimidation.

That was the whole point of "Draw Mohammed Day" so it certainly wasn't "needlessly"

In that episode they showed Buddha snorting lines of coke and Jesus surfing for child porn without being intimidated to censor them and no one recieved death threats from it.

There is a difference between not showing respect and intentionally disrespecting people. I would actually be disrespecting my mother if I sought revenge (in any form including drawing mocking pictures of the killer or his beliefs) for her death instead of forgiving the cultrip. She, like I, is opposed to violence. She is also a Christian and believes strongly in forgiveness. Violence only begets violence and disrespect only creates more disrespect. I will try an analogy one more time, though I doubt it will do any good. If someone kills my mom and get revenge on them, I will then offend them or their loved ones. They will then seek vengeance on me and my loved ones. Other people could be offended or harmed in the process as well and they too will want to get even. Without brave reasonable people to say "no more", violence is never ending. Offending people with drawings (or whatever) is just as much as part of the cycle as violence.

"Offending people goes WAAAY down the list of grievances from people getting physically damaged. Untill you get that, there is no point in addressing anything else."

I think that physical violence is way worse than offending people with a drawing. I believe I have said that already, if you actually read my posts. Some Muslims justify violence becuase they are offended my drawings. People justify drawing offensive pictures because they are offended by the violence. Do you not see the circle there? One side has to stand up on higher moral ground. It is not about whose offense is worse, but who will be the better person.

The more you offend a persons beliefs the more they cling to them. This is not about freedom or legal rights, it is about choosing to make the correct actions. There is already too much fuel in the world. The good news is you can choose to be the water that helps extinguish the flames. Remember no one else's actions are EVER an excuse for your own. Lead by example. Live a non-violent, non-abrasive lifestyle to show others there is a better way than believing in ancient superstitions. Communicate with compassion, open-mindedness and tolerance. Prove your points with logic and open dialogue. Doing these things will prove more powerful in stopping needless violence than willfully offending people.

"There's a reason to do something 'simple,' like draw a religious figure, to get someone violently upset and that is to show the psychotic nature of some people. So I wouldn't do it 'just' to get someone violently upset."

That is just as poor of a reason. First, everybody is already vividly aware that there are "psychotic" people. This is because violence has already occured in response to drawings of the prophet and they also threaten violence to people who draw him. Second, if you know people will repond psychotically, why stimulate them?

"Cartoon artists are somewhat in danger if they draw Mohammed and if your a satirical cartoonist than not drawing Mohammed could be considered bowing to intimidation. There are definitely crazy Christians and Jews out there, but I feel cartoonists don't have to fear for their lives if they draw a funny or possibly distasteful picture of Jesus or Moses."

It really depends on the point they are trying to make. There are occasions were I may defend the drawing the of Muhammud, but it is highly unlikely. I can not even think of a point that would need to be proven by drawing him. Also there is no reason to bring up Christians or Jews, they are irrelevant to the topic.

Also what you call bowing to intimidation, I call realizing that there are extremists out there that may harm innocents if a certian needless action is performed. I was in Saudi Arabia when that South Park aired, and I must say that I was really nervous at first. Then I realized nobody cared there. But there are parts of the world where people do care and may retaliate, so why risk harming innocents?

Ahh, the ole fat-lip Fatwa on the Fatwaers. My favorite!

They are pussies? She is the one hiding.

I guess you're not update on their actions? They (the radicals) attack in groups and kidnap you. They do beheading's, bombings and stone you. They are not going to go after her on a "one on one" basis.

Radicals, are fucking pussies that need others to help them fight their cause. They are just like gangs... pussies in numbers, but when they are alone, nothing.

Every cause ever successfully promoted required the help of more than one individual. From your comment here and else where, everybody is a "pussy." Which is considered by many to be a pretty sexist word by the way. Anyway, if you couldn't tell, I was being facetious.

But, if the roles were reversed, and a radical Muslim was hiding from US soldiers after provoking them, would you call the military "pussies" for sending battalions after one man? Would the radical, not be a "pussy" for hiding from them, instead of standing up and facing the consequences of his actions?

Regardless, what is the point of even calling radicals "pussies"? It doesn't add to the conversation in any intelligent way. I could just as easily call you a "pussy" for sitting in front of a computer screen safe at home judging people. It would would not serve a purpose though.

hey, i've given my address out before when someone thought the same thing you did, "sit behind a computer safe"... I don't hide and voice my opinion just like everyone else here.

I will call anyone a pussy that's involved in a gang or radical group. There's nothing intelligent there, because i wasn't trying to be. It's easy to join a group and say whatever you want, but when you're alone like that lady, people need to see she was the one with the courage... not them or you.

And, you can call me whatever you want, is it true? who knows, but I don't need a group of people to make my point. Like the cowards behind the radical group that took a hit out on this woman. THEY ARE THE FUCKING PUSSIES!!

Oh and my sincere apologies for using that word Ladies, here on current!! but it was the only thing I could think of at that time... sorry!

That fair. It seems you got my points and I got yours. Though I will say, I don't think being afraid or cowardly is always a negative thing. "Pussy" being what it is, can imply many different things beyond cowardliness, but I think that was you main connotation, so that is why I say that. I am not sure who you gave your address to, but if someone wanted to harm me I wouldn't give them my address. There would be other reasons for me not to give out my address, but if I was genuinely afraid that would be a large part of it. I don't know what I would label this woman, but I know she is someone who made a bad decision that unfortunately pissed off the wrong people. Is she responsible for any harmful actions taken against her? No. Should she make wiser decisions in the future to avoid situations were people wish to kill her? Yes.

Ditto, when they come after you for that comment, lets see how brave you are

Well, I am not sure who "they" are that you think is going to come after me, but beings you just agreed with me "they" are going to come after you too.

I already knew they were since I've been drawing Mohammed for months, but I'm still standing up for principles of creative freedom unlike others that would rather knuckle under for provoking extremists that want to force their views onto others.

Which is more cowardly?

I assume the "they" is is radical Muslims then? Why would they come after me for calling their enemy a coward?

Because they could find your views just as blasphemous and declare a "fatwa" just as easily, when extremists want to force obedience they can use any excuse.

Isn't that why you didn't want to provoke them?

My opinion is: Why needlessly provoke people? But if you must, you should draw a bunch of racist images of black people or Hispanics. Or why not provoke the feds by drawing child porn? Its seems like you are doing a half ass job as a provocateur if you just focus on one small group.

"Isn't that why you didn't want to provoke them?"
No, the reason I don't needlessly provoke people isn't out of fear, it is out of common sense and respect. Why would I go out of my way to anger people? That is foolish and a waste of energy.

Black people or Hispanics won't force death threats on people that is the difference.

The child porn argument fails with drawings, parodies or symbolisms since no children are involved. The Feds won't charge you with it if you draw a stick figure and say it's a child but those extremists will still try to force their views onto you with violence.

The point you're missing is that it is not needlessly when people are being hounded by violence about it and to try to cringe away from it is no solution.

If all other groups used the same methods then the focus would be a lot larger but most others can take it less seriously and not try to kill people over it.

Then why do they go out of their way to try and hurt people? Isn't that a whole lot worse than disrespect? What kind of common sense is it that would kill people over drawings?

If they didn't use those methods then people would have more respect for them. Standing up for creative freedom isn't a waste of energy, groveling to avoid provoking bullies is, because the bullies would probably ignore that anyway.

There are certain black and Hispanic people that would threaten or kill you for racist drawings. If you are so sure this is not the case, walk through Harlem carrying sign depicting the hanging of a black man perhaps captioned with something racist. Every group has its extremists. Most likely they wouldn't go out their way to hunt you down, but I think it still applies. Also it is illegal to draw or possess drawings of child porn! It doesn't matter if real children are involved. There is a social stigma on drawing child porn or overtly racist images just as there is with drawing Muhammad in the Islam. If you think Muslims react stronger to drawings of the prophet then the examples I mentioned, that is all the more reason not provoke them.

"The point you're missing is that it is not needlessly when people are being hounded by violence about it and to try to cringe away from it is no solution."

Cringing away from is not the solution, but neither is blatantly insulting and infuriating Muslims. Drawing Mohammad is not going to change their opinion. Having a "Everybody write essays about why Muslims shouldn't get upset about Drawings of Mohammad day" would have better results. That way you would get your message across with out angering people. Imagine that.

"Then why do they go out of their way to try and hurt people? Isn't that a whole lot worse than disrespect? What kind of common sense is it that would kill people over drawings?"

I don't condone a lot of their actions, but another persons logical and moral shortcomings are no excuse for my own. This idea has been expressed several ways throughout history: Be a better man then them. Two wrongs don't make a right. Don't sink to their level, etc...

I don't see this as about creative freedom, because you (and 99.9 percent of the people drawing the prophet) wouldn't even be drawing Mohammad, if it didn't upset Muslims. The fact is, you CAN draw Mohamed and you can do an infinite number of other things to offend people, but somethings might have consequences.

Seriously, do you think people ought be able to draw whatever they want, including child porn without repercussions from any group? My answer is yes, I do think people ought to be able to draw whatever they want, without fear of repercussions.

Radical muslims 1. free speech 0.

man there is nothing you agree with! it is just troll troll troll all fucking day!

Typical, when they come after you for that comment, lets see how brave you are

its not "talking shit", its called human rights.

It's a good idea, go ahead and mock them all, it would probably help to spread it around more

The thing is that a lot of people already mock, the christian, catholic, mormon and jewish god but those followers don't take it so seriously and get that MAJORLY upset about it.

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I added their website to my favorites. I plan on getting this particular poster as soon as I can.
Thanks!

i think tommorow i'll do a "everybody Acro Mohammed"

That's a good idea, I was trying to think of something to do for Part 3

Hey, that might make a good "news" story . . . send links to CNN or what ever.

. . . that is if you don't mind death threats and all.

Points ! +^d

i will just go into hiding under the name Donny DiChico.

Oh great job Stoneyroad *clap...clap* Now they know what she looks like.

I doubt that makes a difference since the FBI wouldn't have had to give her a new identity if they didn't already know that and where she lived

hehe I'm a retard. Thanks for catching that.

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