UN Fact-Finding Mission: Israeli Killing Of US Citizen Was "Execution"

a free democracy?

more like war criminals

the terms of the conflict they have been entrenched in since day one, has been one of only criminality, on both sides.anytime the palastinians want to move away from the tribal combat of years past, and meet on a battlefield instead of in civilian areas, israel will follow.until then criminal war is where they are both at.
but only one side in this conflict is prepared to use a military, the other isnt even trying

Oh I see! the New World Religion with the One Homogenous Inoffensive God...did you think up the symbol?

I made the symbol....it has my copyright

Brilliant! the Muhammadan Theory!! just add a little terror like DEATH if they wanna leave, and you'll have the perfect cult!!

you can keep it

You know jubal , that just might work ..... If you could get a council of religious leaders to avoid politically mutilating it . ( Like the council of Nicea ) That is a brilliant idea . They could update it by accepting evolution .

COOOL!

LOL!!! couldn't have said it better myself! :)

crystalman... youre a man after my own heart!!!! truly you state the TRUTH! Islamists were using the useful idiot western "peace activists " as a tool to further their own interests regarding the so-called peace flotilla. but we in the West add to our own destruction by the politically correct BS we publish against Israel in defending herself against the overwhelming Middle East bully boy tactics.. makes me sick how the media paints Islam as pure and blameless , while Israel is the "aggressor"!!! when all the time THEY are sending those rockets daily bombing Israeli schools homes. etc... NO!! my sympathy is for the victim Israel!! Islam can go to HELL!

The sad thing is he is 100% serious.

Ummm...I kinda remember that its the "muslims " holy book that calls all jooooos violent and evil, that not only must they be tortured, but they must be killed by "smiting of the neck" eg.. beheading!... don't recall jews writing muslims must be eradicated...

don't see the Jews stoning people to death for blasphemy TODAY, now do we,regardless of Leviticus,!! just name me ONE instance where Jews are doing this, my friend, and you won't find ONE!! but Muslims sure carry out their holy book to the letter in Islamic countries that follow their obscene sharia laws.. can name plenty, like Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran,Nigeria, Turkey,Somalia etc..,the stoning of women..that includes beheadings,and lopping off arms,hands, legs, of theives, and hanging homosexuals...hmmm, when was the last time homosexuals were executed by Israeli law??? but by Islamic Sharia Law, its happening as we speak...so much for your ridiculous statement..

just ignore them and they will go away like flies on a summer's day

I am by no means a Talmudic scholar, but there are some pretty vile things in there as well. That of course does not mean that Jews all go out and do them.

Am I hallucinating or do I detect a window of sanity, humility and balance in your comment?

On a serious note I do NOT hate Jewish people. I do HATE the fukers who control Israel and believe they have a God given right to treat the Palestinians like shit. I KNOW the Palestinians are not Angels and do LOTS of bad stuff as well. I am not sure if you have ever been in a fight, but if someone is bigger than you and kicking your ass you are going to get a LOW blow in if you can.

does the converse not equaly apply?

actually the talmud is the equivilent of a legal review.if you interpret the talmud in its approprite context, wich even for jews requires training, nothing shocking exists.

A low blow, or decades of relying on them?
israel when it was created, by your stats alone was a minority group of jews, to a massive majority of muslims.so by your reasoning, the creation of israel was rightious, especialy as it needed no low blows to defeat its arab resistance.

Thanks for the article...and please note this is THREE evangelists who have pushed the bill, which quite rightly has been condemned by western Christians, it will never stand... and there is absolutely NO MANDATE from Christs Teachings for the killing of homosexuals...NONE!!! Jesus commanded all Christians to observe the commandment "Love your neighbor as yourself" He also commanded "Thou shall not kill"

True!

realize you are comisserating with some one who is calling the kettle black.while he may not be interested in killing you, he sure likes the propaganda provided from those who are.

yet despite these clear teachings, in the name of christ they still kill gays.
are you not aware that not everyone derives the same information from the same writings?
nothing in christianity demands racism, yet the kkk were burning cross's on lawns as divine right.
it doesnt make christianity evil, just as barbaric arabs dont make islam evil.especialy as islam literlay means peace, and all monothiests are to be protected as they are "people of the book".

corruption of holy scripture for personal deviant uses isnt new, or exclusive to islam.if anything islam is the new kid on the block, and christianity is the greatest example of this.

the Quran gives a CLEAR MANDATE for muslims to KILL, Jews, Christians and non muslims/infidels/unbelievers.. Jesus teachings in the Bible give the opposite Mandate..to love your enemies, and to do good to them that hate you" Christians are told by the founder of their faith, Jesus, DO NOT KILL" Muslims are told by the founder of their faith, Muhammad that Jews MUST be killed, Christians.and infidels must either accept Allah, or be killed, allowed to live and pay a heavy tax, or live in serfdom...sorry if I don;t find that appealing..but this is what their writings instruct them that they must do to aquire the right to Paradise and 72 virgins..Muslims admit this is their goal...and I for one will do ANYTHING to fight this oppression of our freedoms.

There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world and MOST of them are not doing it either. I mean if it is fair to judge Islam by it's worst adherents then I guess it is ok to judge Christianity based on our Child-molesting Priests and Abortion Clinic Bombers?

I am aware of the purpose of the Talmud. I am just saying some of the religious rulings in it are quite shocking and I am SURE MOST Jews do not do EVERYTHING that it says is permissible.

Numbers alone is not what I am talking about. I mean I would rather have 100 US Marines with 21st Century Weapons to 1,000 Palestinians with Rocks, Sticks, and home made bombs.

Where in the Koran does it give Muslims a CLEAR MANDATE to kill innocents for no reason? All of the Abrahamic faiths allow killing in self defense.

Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."
Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."
Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
Qur'an:8:57 "If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned."
Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land."
Qur'an:33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."
Qur'an:59:2 "It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning...they shall taste the torment of Fire."
Qur'an:33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."

You MUST read the full text to get it's meaning. I can take ANYTHING out of context to make it say what I want.

"Fight in the cause of Allah THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, AND TURN THEM OUT FROM WHERE THEY HAVE TURNED YOU OUT; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; BUT IF THEY FIGHT YOU, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. BUT IF THEY CEASE, ALLAH IS OFT FORGIVING, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; BUT IF THEY CEASE, LET THERE BE NO HOSTILITY EXCEPT TO THOSE WHO PRACTICE OPPRESSION. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. BUT FEAR ALLAH, AND KNOW THAT ALLAH IS WITH THOSE WHO RESTRAIN THEMSELVES."

nowhere in the New Testament which is the Book Christians follow that holds the Words of Christianitys Founder Jesus Christ , does it call for or permit believers to kill ANYONE because they are unbelievers...that is the overwhelming difference between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Muhammad

I am not sure of your denomination, but to be a good Christian you MUST believe in the Old and the New Testament. Jesus said, "I have not come to change the Law of Moses or the Prophets".

Then why have the old testament at all ? Ditch the parts you do not believe , as they cannot have been inspired by god .

the point i was trying to make is that the talmud isnt law, but philisohy based on the torah wich is law.the fucked up stuff in the talmud isnt really so fucked up if you read it in its appropriate context.
ex:
somewhere in the talmud it states that jews are not to eat at the same table as gentiles.

that seems massively arrogant and racist if one were to look at it through our contemperary eyes.but being as the talmud is not divine law but commentary made by man.the era in wich it was written in must be taken into account, unlike the torah wich is supposed to be timeless as god is.
not sharing a table with gentiles was the means by wich most jews could understand how to keep kosher.i dont know if you are aware that kosher means, meat and dairy must be seperated.gentiles dont do this, thus in order to keep kosher one must not eat with gentiles.in the modern era our technology allows those who wish to keep kosher able to do so, with out utilizing exclusionary means.

the talmud has to be viewed in the context of when it was written, wich is mostly hundreds of years ago, making what seems fucked up, not really fucked up, just lacking contemperary perspective.

jews,just like christians and muslims observe to thier own degrees.hence sasha baron cohen and adam sandler (not exactly model jews).the basic premise is to follow the 613 laws.i think i personaly follow like two.

as would israel and every other soveriegn nation.it is a shame the palastinians havent dedicated any of the billions of dollars they col have in to creating a military force, not just radicalized citizens.

"The Law of Moses " was also the Ten Commandments as it says in the New Testament...and Jesus quoted the Prophets who had prophecied of Him when He made His claims as the Son of God..so of course he did not do away with the Prophets,..thats what Prophets did, they Prophecied, and those Prophecies spoke of Jesus.....Jesus FULFILLED the LAW...and the Prophets, if you want to read further in that verse you quoted...The laws( Levitical ceremonial laws such as washings, killing of the sacrificial lamb, ordinances, abstaining from unclean foods, penalties for breaking the law etc, were all FULFILLED in Christ,(Who was the prophecied "sacrificial lamb )He FULFILLED these Laws by His sacrifice on the Cross making the Jewish sacrificial system irrelevant,... read the New Testament and you will find Jesus and His disciples quote the Ten Commandments as the "royal law of love" encapsulated in the two laws " love God and love your neighbor as yourself" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets" .... sorry this sounds like a Bible study but the teachings of Jesus cannot be summed up in a few words, especially when we are discussing Old Testament prophecies and its relevance to the New Testament..to simplify Jesus words about FULFILLING the Law,and not CANCELLING the Law, let me make an analogy... I am given some work to do,I can either do away with or cancel the job,, or I can fulfill the job!! totally different meanings...Jesus did not cancel the Law, he fulfilled the Law and all its expectations and penalties for sin.............here endeth the first lesson LOL

you are splitting hairs, and badly.jesus spoke of means of conflict, but it isnt my religious domain so im not going to get int to that.ill leave that to those who suffered bible study while i was suffering torah study.

more importantly christianity is based (a sect if ya think about it really) on judaism, wich is rife with all the quran stuff up to jesus, identicaly.does that mean judaism is evil and thier fore christianity aswell by extension?

the quran also states simultaniously that jews and christians are to be protected as people of the book.pick and choose all the little bits you want, but at the end of the day none of the abrahamic faiths have a difinitive superiority in any way shape or form.they all share the same flaws.

on a side note, acording to you christianity is completely void of this molevolent violence that you see coarsing through islam.that would mean that the followers who go the way of violence, are being exploited by a corrupt preaching of gods word.that makes each and every muslim follower a victim, but wht explains the inquasition? if islam is a corruption of the holy word, and jesus spoke of not violent acts towards others, that means islam doesnt know any better, but christian history is rife with blatant abuse.that seems better to you?the religion that concerns you is the one that is bullshit, not the one that can be ignored for centuries on end in the persuit of the greatest violence the world has ever seen?
at least islam has rules about it, christianity allowed crusades,pogroms,libels,and the inquasition.hell if not for the churches efforts hitler wouldnt have been able to pull off the holocaust.that is the religion that seems rightious?

With all due respect your points are moot, the Crusades and the Inquisition were not based on Jesus teachings or any other directives in the New Testament, which is the supreme Book to Christians, and you are entitled to your opinion that my beliefs as a Christian are bullshit, faith and belief are a matter of conscience and nobody elses business, as long as those beliefs don't do violence to others, or infringe on other peoples rights..Furthermore Jesus never preached violence, nor killed, nor went to war,...you seek to equate Islam as equal to Christianity, but the founder of Islam preached violence, roobbed ,tortured, killed, enslaved,and waged war... Muslims seek to follow Muhammads teachings ,so that is their Mandate to wage war..Jesus gave no such Mandate, instead, He said," Love your enemies , do good to them that hate you" Render unto Caesar ( man made governments) the things that are Caesars , and to God the things that are Gods" .(here is Jesus example of separation of church and state)..I wont comment further on this since you believe( as you said) that Christian beliefs are BS anyway....

you want to get into a nonsubjective dicussion about christianity.
99% of christianity practiced is of the pauline variety.of the apostyles, it is the pauline perspective that is expressed in primary narrative.paul who was the converted zealot who presented his version after a decades long battle with judaism to accept christ as messiah.gee i wonder if when readint the new testament if the perspective holds judaism in low esteem much? who did the church lay the death of jesus upon until the 1950's? christianity not only has violence in its tales, but sews the seed of hate for others.far more sinister than islam declaring jews or christians as enemies, is christianities ability to not name them, so anyone can be it.at least islam is drawing your fire this century and not jews this time, how long till it comes back around? how long do you figure it will be until christians conveniently forget thier god is jewish too? how long until some unbearable fear needs to be resolved with a patsy again? we had fun with the plagues, and the holocaust, when will we play escape goat again for christianity?

the new testament and the quran are both books with words written in them.books with words written in them, no matter how you try to present it, pose no greater threat that just being books with words in them.the treat the quran poses is no greater or less than an oprah book of the month club.it is a matter of what we as human beings do with the information we aquire, than idle information no? i dont care if mafia monthly or science digests gives you the information required to properly dispose of a dead body, but the fact that murder has happened.

you can equivicate what ever you would like, and make exceptions and excuses that allow you to support your error.wether it is the praise of jesus, or the damnation of the 1.5 billion people that you have never met, these facts dont change.

christianity has a history of things done in its name, that makes it in practice, no better or worse than any other method of spiritual explanation.tell yourself what ever you would like to help you support your need for faith, but dont deny me the truth.you can pretend to yourself that because jesus didnt specificaly say to do it in his name,when it was done in his name, his name is cleared.jesus condoned proselytising and didnt offer a limit.the entire basis of christianity is based on us being tested and failing by killing gods only son.as a religion it is a call to vigilance, laying the ground work for the path to hell to be paved with good christian intentions.so far that has played out with jews being systematicaly oppressed, tortured, libeled,and ultimately subject to a genocide.instaed of learning from two thousand yearsof mistakes, this superior religion of christianity is doing exactly what it had done before, just with a new target.

see ya at the next genocide, but thier are more of them than there were of us.i suggest a little better planning this time when spreading your message if peace and love.but so far it is the same as before, but now you have an equal in righious violence, islam.

You and I BOTH know Israel will NOT ALLOW the Palestinians to create a "viable" fighting force.

Well if you KNOW this then why were you going on about since Jesus came and we have the New Testament the old Testament abrogated?

Thanks for your perspective, much appreciated, and may I ask who the new target of the Christians is??? if you say Islam, then just bear in mind that calling a religion to account for its bias against Christians, jews and non-muslims a la Quran, is a matter of the violation of human rights , not necessarily a religious matter. The blatant anti Jew, anti-Christian, and hatred of " the other" ( non muslim) writings attributed to muhammad that are considered still relevant by muslims today, are the justification for the persecution and killing of non muslim minorities all over this planet! Whether thosepersecuted minorities are Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Bahai, etc,,, they are persecuted by muslims in their Islamic states, the Egyptian Copts, Lebanons Christians, Iraqs Christian minorities, Christians and animists in Sudan, and the list goes on in every part of the world where Islam is dominant or is seeking dominance ... I don't see Christian majority lands killing their minorities, do you? Democratic Kenya is a majority Christian country, yet it was the minority Muslim population( 10%) who went on a rampage of killing, burning shops including burning a church filled with people when Muslim candidate Odinga was not elected! to gain peace Kenyas government was forced to offer him an equal partnership in government...this seems to be the modus operandi of muslims in general, and don't think it won't happen in the West! what about the Paris Burning , even here in Australia with the Cronulla riots where a rampage of hate was launched from the local mosque as youths set fire to cars, bashed passersby, and smashed windows.....you say this is not Islam, but its actions the world over have an underlying uniformity, and what undergirds that mindset is the Quran with its teachings of Muhammad, also the Hadith, Islams second holiest writings according to muslims...NO muslims will disown the Hadiths , they are said to be the actual words of Muhammad... So i rest my case based on the worldwide actions of Islam, and its followers whose majority (at least 1 billion) live in Islamic societies and act out these laws to the letter..I do NOT include in that number muslims in the West, but I question WHY when they live here enjoying our freedoms, that polls show the majority approve of Sharia Law and want it applied in our countries..

where did I say the Old Testament was abrogated?

many christians (my ex-employer for one) believe that as a result of jesus fullfilling the messiah prophecy the laws of old no longer apply, hence no kosher christians and so forth.the prophecy states a massive change in social order upon the messiahs arrival.
interpritation isnt uniform.

I don't think I missed your point, but I DO think you missed mine..your point was that Christianity has committed atrocities( which i fully acknowledge and abhor) and that whether Jesus mandated violence or not it was done in His Name, so therefore a mandate doesn't matter! MY point was that , yes, a mandate for violence from the founder of ones faith DOES matter..and that Islams founder actually mandated that the whole world should be FORCIBLY converted to Islam until Islam is the only religion and there is no other god but Allah,or be killed, THAT is the mandate, and THAT is the reason why we have the ongoing jihad today by muslims around the world... You say writings of the apostles still considered relevant by Christians today call for the killing of homosexuals..I know for a fact that there is not one verse in the New Testament where the apostles gave any such directive for Christians to persecute or kill gays... no, not one! please give me your reference..The reverse is true..Christians are told not to judge, because Judgement is for God alone. The taking of life is NOT a Christian concept.. that was precisely my point.!! Islam has given judgement into the hands of its adherents, to kill unbelievers, Christianity has NOT, it says judgement is Gods porogative alone... Muslims feel perfectly justified in killing people for the simple fact that they are not believers, because they were the acts of their prophet. Christians cannot point to ANY violent act of Jesus and say, the founder of our faith did this..Persecution of non believers is not a Christian concept either "whomsever WILL come to Me, let him come"( Jesus words) Christianity according to Jesus, is a CHOICE...Islam according to Muhammad tells muslims to fight until the whole world is under Islam and there is no god but Allah...Christianity says to PREACH the Gospel to the whole world ( words only), Islam says to FIGHT the whole world ...big difference , I think.. Jesus command to preach the Gospel might be a crashing bore to those who don't want to hear it, but words are only words, they do not kill! Muhammads command is to physically impel people into Islam or suffer the consequences which is death or slavery.. Now whether only a small proportion of muslims actually fight jihad physically, it is vindicated in muslim writings which they hold as true today as ever it was in their prophets time. That has been my point...Radical Islam is a real threat to the West, and if you don't see that then can I suggest you do some study into whats happening in Britain, with Sharia Courts operating in many shires..you say Sharia is not a threat, and why would muslims come to the West if not for freedom...They come to the West because of economic reasons as well as for Dawah ( mission) and a recent survey of British muslims showed that the majority want Sharia Law established in Britain..One of the tenets in the Organization of Islamic Conference(OIC) Bill of Human Rights (different to ours) is that Sharia Law should be respected and established..the UN is dominated by the OIC, and has a direct bearing on the West...I think you need to look at the big picture perhaps, because a Law enshrined in a Bill of Human Rights that allows stoning, severing hands and feet of thieves,and death by beheading for apostasy/ hanging or being thrown from a height for being homosexual, is a gross travesty and offence against humanity..

An in-depth Bible study of Old and New Testaments bears out the fact that Jesus fulfilled all the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament, and that upon that fulfillment as the sacrificial Lamb, all Levitical Laws for sacrifice such as washings, ceremonial laws of the priesthood, kosher etc were no longer relevant.. Thats why in New Testament at the time of Jesus death, it says the heavy curtain of the Sanctuary that separated the Most Holy Place, was torn from top to bottom ( from the top denotes it was an act of God) I agree with your boss..the only relevant Law from Leviticus which is the model for Christian BEHAVIOUR is the Moral Law of the Ten Commandments.. These are still relevant because Jesus quoted them and encapsulated them into Two Laws " Love God and love your neighbor as yourself" ( the first 4 Laws show us how we are to love God, And the last 6 show us how to love our neighbor) Jesus said "on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets"

Aussiegirl , why not ditch the old testament , if christians only follow the new ?

without the Old Testament , the New Testament would not make sense, because of the Messianic promises and prophecies of the coming of the Christ that are scattered throughout the Old Testament,..Also the whole Judaic sacrificial system (OT)of the sacrifice of a spotless Lamb for the sins of the people foreshadow the sacrifice of Christ as the Lamb of God for the sins of the world..Jesus Himself said to those who questioned if He was the Messiah, to "study the prophecies because they speak of Me"..He was speaking about the Old Testament, and He read from It numerous times when He preached in the synagogues. The Old Testament is the Foundation upon which the New Testament is based, prophetic and full of symbolism about the coming of Christ...that is why it is relevant for Bible study for Christians..All the Messianic promises and prophecies were fulfilled in Christ

your religious arrogances is astounding.you are trying to validate jesus to me, a jew.as i am claiming christianity poses a greater systematic intolerance than islam, and you are claiming otherwise you are telling me the entire jewish faith is wrong by not believing as you do.you are actively personifying the very element of christianity you are trying to claim doesnt exist cuz the book doesnt say so.despite the book saying so or not, you feel completely ok stating your beliefs as fact, and others as just flat out wrong.the very intolerance you condem islam for.

You say that my faith in Jesus and christianity is me, telling you, that the entire Jewish faith is wrong, by not believing as I do...but can't that also be applied to you? looked at from THAT rather interesting perspective ,is it valid for me to say that your claim to non belief about Jesus and Christianity (which is your right) is also YOU telling me that the entire Christian faith is wrong, by me not believing as you do?? It would be nice if you wouldn't put words in my mouth that I didn't say...

the same cant be applied to me for two reasons.
1-im not stating wether any religion is right or wrong, but results in human suffering.im not citing any religious ideas as valuable or not, but what fruit they bare.how much blood gets spilt as a result of its use.
2-im not supposing my religion is better than yours, or islam.for myself it works, and for you it doesnt, and im fine with that.just because islam doesnt work for me, it doesnt make it wrong, just different.it isnt as if coke is right and pepsi is wrong.

im not supposing to have greater divine knowledge than any other person on the planet.i dont even suppose it by devaluing other perspectives to elevate mine.if you think christ died for your sins, more power to ya.if you think placing your head to the floor 5 times a day is the way to live, super for you.and if davening in a yarmulkah tickles ya, have at it.

im not claiming you said anything, but the ideas you put out in your narrative are one in the same with islam's "allah is supreme" bullshit.it has its place in your heart, but not in creating any policy (personal or otherwise) that extends to another to a detriment.at the end of the day wether klansmen hang non christians, or mohamed blows himself up in a market, a bunch of innocent people die because they both thought thier religious beliefs superceded all others.you place islam at the helm of terrorism, when christianity has been tailoring it for two thousand years.

your facts that islam is a problem, is based not on who they are, but your sense of superiority.a position void of compasion, rife for conflict.not to get all preachy but as long as you see them as muslims first and human beings second, you wont be able to identify with them on a level that would allow for compasion.if you saw them as equals, you may view them as poor lost souls, worthy of pity more than ire.i personaly dont see them that way, but it is a noble compasionate perspective true to the abrahamic tradition.a perpective free of hate,fear,or anger. its just like islam's problem with supremecy being thier religious identity too.welcome to the club of the selfishly insane.keep the body count coming, cuz that is what god wants.

Yes, I see in your mind Christianity poses a greater threat than islam, I surely hope Islam is the benign toothless tiger you portray while its leading imams in our western countries and theirs claim death to america,the jews, that the White House will soon be flying the flag of Islam.. Britain may prefer the Sharia courts where a womans rights are less than a mans, they are now part of her landscape in many shires.. Here in Oz the Head Mufti of Australias Muslims after a particularly savage pack rape of a young girl by muslims, declared that a girl not covered properly by Sharia islamic dress was the same as a lump of uncovered meat in a park, if a cat passing by saw the lump of meat, attacked it and ate it, whose fault would it be ? the lump of meat, or the cats??? this from the LEADING Mufti of all muslims here in Australia...there was no outcry from muslims, only from the general public months later when papers published the account..He was then forced to resign, unapologetic,NOT forced out by muslim outrage but by public opinion...this would be similar to the Archbishop of Canterbury making a statement on behalf of his church in Britain, or the Pope addressing his flock... this Imam still spreads his hate across the middle east, and makes all kinds of nonsense statements here in Australia,,this is not like a single nutter baptist church bashing gays, this is a religious leader/spokesperson for the national entirety of muslims in Australia, and not one spoke up in defense of the young girl, in fact the families of the attackers belligerantly defended their sons,brothers, by affirming the words of the Mufti!! ... Sharia Law is a stated aim of the Organisation of Islamic Conference., but hay...lets just pretend its cultural...what you refuse to see is that islam is a THEOCRACY, where its political aims cannot be separated from its religion..Sharia Islamic Law is the code by which every muslim is told how to live, dress, pray, do business, in fact it has rules over every part of a Muslims life..THAT is what they are bringing to the West...Britain is just for starters..there are many other laws of Sharia such as property rights, marriage, punishments,the lesser rights of non muslims as second class citizens under islamic rulers, and the list goes on...Oh but silly me, why do i worry?/ it may only be in my children or grandchildrens generation...all the world can go to hell in a basket, as long as i'm okay...right?

in my mind christianity poses a greater threat than islam, as im relying soley on facts, not prejudicial suppositions.granted christianity had a huge head start in the fucking humanity up arena, compared to islam being late bloomers.none the less christianity has proven it self to be a pathology of thought that results in greater suffering by any standard than islam.in a thousand years if islam keeps going on the path it is on it may be different, but im not going to state they are more dengerous before they have given cause for that accusation.

thier are no shortages of muslims behaving inhumanely who are muslims, but no matter how many examples you throw out to this end, it doesnt trump or negate two thousand years of institutionalized savagery that christianity held as religious policy.yes the saudii clerics wouldnt let three little girls escape a burning building because they werent properly covered up, and those little girls burned to death as a result.yes saudi families torture and kill nonmuslim servants, but we still have 350 more years to go for islam to come even close to meeting the level of depravitey that christianity's inquasition was.even then they are still behind christianity as the crusades are more examples of christianity's instituting murder as policy.

if all these muslim clerics you cite are representative of islam, how does the same not apply to christian hate spreaders? how is it any different than that jackass who said 9-11 happened cuz of the gays? or that aids is gods punishment for us tolerating homosexuality? how is that any different than the westborough baptist church protesting servicemens funerals saying they died cuz they are fighting for freedom, for gays? how is it any different than the evangelicals who brought lethal hate for homosexuality to uganda?
how is it when christianity's hatefull missguided souls spread hate it is just the one off, but when muslim clerics do it, it is repesentative of all of islam.how is it that the moron in florida who wants to burn the quran is just some lone lunatic who doesnt represent jesus's preaching of tolerance, but when an imam says the west is evil it is an irrefudable representative of a religion that literaly isnt attacking us.literaly islam has more followers than any other religion across the world, and could take us anytime they want really, but arent.

any religion can be used to create a theocracy, as in the church creating culture and policy for europe over the last two thousand years.as judaism had done the same previously.by the way if islam is a defacto theocracy why is it that turkey is a secular nation.im sure you arent surfing the porn on the internet, but rest assured these theocracies you speak of offe a lot of porn.almost as much as the soviets.some are theocracies, some arent.just as israel is both a jewish state and secular in government so is turkey.shit even pakistan is more western than theocratic.

you envoke your offspring, but do you not also notice how your ancestors survived a world with islam? islam is 1500 years old, and yet still here we are.and here we will be.

by the way if it is as simple as all muslim's desire to live under sharia law, why is it that so many of them flee thier sharia law nations in favor of freedom? why hasnt the nation of islam made a single attempt at instituting sharia in america over the last half century they have been here? how is it that sharia is different in iran, than in iraq,than in saudi arabia.how is it then that in gaza and the west bank muslim dont live under sharia, despite having the option available to them?
it is just basic deductive reasoning.yes radicals will push thier views on others, but moderates wont accept it.wether jewish,christian,or muslim.that is it and the end of the day.human beings regardless of what classification you designate, function this way.always have, always will.
the sooner you let go of the rediculous baseless fear, and focus on real threats the safer you will be.as long as all the bearded brown people are a threat you are being subject to manipulation via fear mongering.

you know how one defeats terrorism? but not submitting to its demand you be afraid, wich makes it impotent.it is just that simple.how many time will some one try to scare you by saying boo when you dont respond as they desire.listen to the moderates, and deny the radicals what they feed on, leaving us (who have the power) to dictate the terms of success.if you keep subscribing to the fear baiting, they are actualy winning, as you have willingly submitted to thier methods, thus validating them.not discouraging them.

I can't help thinking how naive your world view is, quote: "you invoke your offspring, but do you not also notice how your ancestors survived a world with Islam? Islam is 1500 years old , and yet still we are and here we will be..." surely you are aware of the aggression of Islam towards the West that was halted at the Gates of Vienna? and the invasion by Islam of Hindu India where once it was one nation, now it is divided into two regions,Muslims demanded their own state( Pakistan). Ask the Hindus if my fears are baseless for the generations of my children, ask the oldest church before Islam , the Egyptian Copts, where Egyypt was once a Christian nation, who now suffer terrible persecution, if my fears are groundless...ask those of the Sudan, Nigeria, Lebanon( once Christian)and so many others who have suffered Islamic invasion if its been and is, a picnic under Islam...EVERY Islamic country has the apostasy Law..death for leaving Islam, that is one of the laws of sharia also... but I guess that is benign to you.....

so let me get this straight.the nazi party as an example (as something we can all agree is an evil force) came to power and commited the most aggregious crimes we have seen.this makes nazism simply intolerable.so as a result of this, should we just wage war with skinheads? just make it illegal to shave ones head and wear red suspenders? we have literaly available to us, in both our societies this group that has hands down, proven themselves to be nothing but a threat to our existance.they have a far more staggering success rate, and numbers of atrocities to thier historical credit, but islam is the threat? we some how can look at the skinheads and see lost souls who need help, not defacto criminals.why cant every muslim person in a free society not be extended the same courtasy.we can tolerate literal nazis as a matter of free expression, but islam we must fight?islam, who unlike the nazi parties 100 percent crazy count, have less than one percent proven dangerous.the other 99 percent prove pacive every single day.

you can take any collective, and point out who they overcame in order to exist as they do.just as you can cite islam's growth, equaly we can cite christianity's.christianity who like a religious plague swept through europe with zero respect for the local culture.christianity who highjacked paganism (happy holloween by the way) some how arent the same thing?meaning islam could end up being ok in the end.one day the entire planet may very well be of a singular faith, with no religious conflicts ever happening again.i dont fear it if that ends up being christianity or islam.

every civilization has a list of aggressive acts.from the hittites to america.listing them out of context doesnt do anything but fear monger.it is the same thing those who attack israel do when telling of the palestinian plight.

there are not 1.2 billion nazis

so the threat of the idealogy is determined by the numbers wich follow? that is actualy a cultural element in islam known as dhimi law, the majority imposing its will upon the minority, yet again paralleling your beliefs, or system of belief to the elements of islam that are seen as wrong.

i dont understand what membership numbers matter when evaluating wether or not a religion is dangerous.wether its one guy (hitler) or millions, the idealogy is the same, and causes the same result.

if islam had fewer followers than say judaism, would it be any less wrong by your perspective? cuz the palestinians for instance are only a few million strong, yet do the most damage.

personaly in negotiating my actions in accordance with provocation, numbers are irrelevant.one guy saying kill the jews is met with the same reaction as millions.it is no less threatening when only one town is kkk, as opposed to multiple.it isnt permissable becuase it isnt scary enough via numbers.

wrong is wrong.doesnt that make you question your convictions when a sliding scale exists for defining threatening ideas?

I am no fan of the UN myself but that does not mean they are not right on occasion.

lets just say the UN is a lot like the case of the boy who cried "wolf" ..after being found to be lying or at very least misrepresenting fiction as fact, no-one believes a word they say is the truth!!!

The problem, is the Israelis believe God gives them the right to fuk over the Palestinians and the Radical Jihadist believe God gives them the right to fuk over EVERYBODY else. So they are BOTH killing and stealing in the name of the Lord.

way off

do you really think it is unreasonable to brand all palastinians as one thing, but it makes sense when you do it to israel?
of the middle eastern nations, wich one is most secular.wich nation relies the least on its religious idealogies?
israel is populated with mostly secular people, just like us.sure the religious are louder and drown out the athiests, but "israelis" dont believe anything uniformly.from the woman in black who protest daily against thier governments actions to the endless stream of refusniks who wont serve in the idf, israel has no idea of divine right.zionist may, but israelis do not.

btw if devine reasoning validates personal agendas you really should find israels enemies superbly offensive.

Why would God, if there were such a deity as God, care about Israel? Because the bible said so?

You really think so....with the briefcase size nuclear weapons available...practically anyone can smuggle in a nuclear weapon. Also if they piss off the Muslims enough....perhaps Pakistan will assist in its annihilation.

i was responding in the context of the thread, not over all.
yes nuclear disaster is possible in the missle east but not probable.
pakistan will make nukes for whomever has the cash, but as long as they dont collapse those nukes will not be used (mutualy assured destruction and all).
above all else those who are most likely to use nukes wont do it in thier own back yard.europe is most likely to get hit, or the security lacking soviets.
at least that is how it seems to me.even if iran gets em, i dont see then being used in the lands terrorists are fighting to gain control of.

I do not mean to imply that EVERY Israeli agrees with the occupation. I have said MANY times there are indeed people in Israel who BOTH agree that Israel has a right to exist, but does not have a right to the land it STOLE in 67. The Government however says fukum we are going to do as we please and if these peaceniks get in our way we will MURDER them just like we do EVERY ONE else.

It's not God that's going to protect Israel from destruction by the combined efforts of IDF, Mossard, Shin Bet and one of the world's most technological advance militaries . The IDF mission is to "defend the existence, territorial integrity and sovereignty of the state of Israel. To protect the inhabitants of Israel and to combat all forms of terrorism which threaten the daily life"

yet this murderous regime has yet to kill the palastinians.we keep hearing ofthe genocide, and many like yourself function as if it is fact, yet the palastinian population just keeps growing.if israel (the premire military force of the world) wants to destroy the palastinians they would be gone.this murderous libel is dissproved with every day that we wake up to that has a gaza and a west bank.

in67 egypt syria and jordan signed away that land.how many land thefts come with un paperwork?call it stolen all day, it doesnt change that is was land aqquired through military conquest.just like every other pice of land on this planet.

yeap chosen by liberal atheists as the never ending source of conspiracy

and chosen means.............................
cuz christians are chosen too, by god as they follow his more recent decrees.
and muslims were chosen through mohamed being tappd by god
what does chosen mean to you?

why, why, why really why

I do not want to turn this into a religious discussion because I respects EVERYBODY right to their religion or no religion at all. NOTHING pisses me off more than when someone uses their religion to JUSTIFY evil actions.

You are of course aware that God disposed the Jewish people of their land for their wickedness? Then about 100 years ago some atheist/agnostic Jewish people said why wait on this god to get our land back. so they set out to get it back by hook or crook and did so. This is why many Orthodox Jews true to the Torah do not support the current Zionist state.

your understanding of jewish beliefs are way off.while the chasidim to the reform may have differing views, yours isnt even in the same field.
chosen means, chosen to recieve the ten commandments and to keep them holy.recieving the five books of moses happened (if you believe such things) thousands of years after abraham had his deal with god.god talking to abraham has absolutely nothing to do with the jews being the chosen people.especialy as ishmael, the patriarch of islam is of abrahams seed just as much as issac.making that level of chosing identical.abraham passed the birth right on to issac to jacob, but god protected ismael and hagar as well, making niether decedant chosen or loved more than the other.

where ever you are gathering your info from, is cutting and pasting random swaths of the torah together to create an independant narrative not of judaism.jews do not believe that we exist as a litmus test for humanity.you dont get to heaven or what ever based on how you treat us, that is an outside perspective.in fact th very notion that israel belongs to the jews by divine decree is not a universal jewish teaching.it is exclusively zionist wich is political, not religious despite its basis involving god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_oIugchUBY&feature=fvst
aside from the millions of jews who dont live in israel stand as testament that zionism is not judaism, here are some religious jews.religious jews who from the same scripture deem the creation of israel as decidedly not jewish.

qassams and katusha rockets are some how exempt?

that isnt exactly how it happened, but it suites the hate israel narrative.
zionism was created to answer the question of what to do with europes jews.that question resulted in the jews of eastern europe not caring, as thier lives were tolerable.soviet jews came up with communism (no god no division) and eastern euroean jews came up with zionism.what you over look in your summation of zionist history is that zionism spent over a century languishing.unlike the muslim invasion of the middle east, zionism spent over a century discussing and debating where to create this jewish state.jerusalem was a desire, but on he table was also madagascar and uganda.ironicaly the jews of germany felt fuck zionism, berlin is the new israel.

the reason the jews ended up in israel, is because of the radicalization of the population the nazis had created.the emancipated post holocaust jews were unable to live in thier countries as they were still being terrorized by the local population.they had literaly no place to go.no place would take them.not us not england,not the aussies, no one.they went to the one and only jewish run town in the world at the time tel aviv.

had the only jewish town in 1947 been in asia, israel would be there.it has much less to do with religion, than basic survival,they did the same thing any of us would have done in the same situation.

on a side note if israel was created becuase of zionism, how come all thosae arab jews fled thier homes and cultures to risk thier necks creating a new country? being as zionism is a european creation that never had any arab jewish influence, what accounts for thier migration.

your telling of the tale is simple enough, but doesnt relate to the reality of the situation.

if the jews are lead by divine right, why is sanai not required, being as that is where they recieved the torah? why was jerusalem not fought for in 48? valid questions no?

an eye for an eye is a statement about vengance, not defense.
im not asking you how is israel right for doing as they do, im asking why the palastinians are exempt from equal critique.
yes the shit israel pulls is often not helpfull, but in its appropriate context what alternative do they have.it isnt as if israel just wakes up and feels like beating on some palastinians.they are not innocent in this either.
an eye for an eye does make the world blind, but that isnt what im claiming is the case.