Don't Ask Don't Tell -Lost Heroes !?

this isn't about letting gays and lesbians join, we're already in the military. this is about doing the right thing with open service. why would that make the military a circus?

The right thing has already been done. We have males and we have females. All classified as servicemembers. Everyone shares the same priviledges based on this premises. Noone needs to know or wants to know that you are sexually attracted to those of your same sex. This is the military. Leave that stuff in the civilian world where they have more than enought time to sort that out. The miiitary is more about protecting our country and maintaining a strong cohesive force. Lets concentrate on that, not who is gay or not.

that's the same thing we want! no more witch hunts and investigations. no one wants to be fired for what they do in their bedrooms. don't ask don't tell blatantly defies most army values and marine values (and i'm sure the values of the other branches)

"Everyone shares the same priviledges based on this premises."

i'm sure if you told someone at work that you asked your wife to marry you and she said yes, you wouldn't be fired. i would. if you told your unit that your wife just had a baby boy and you need to adjust your paperwork accordingly, you wouldn't get fired. i would. these are not the same privileges.

As a member of the military, I would be shocked if a man tells me that he asked his boyfriend to marry him and he said yes. The first thing I would envision is the two of them sodomizing each other. If a man has a boyfriend, I don't want to know. Honestly, the thought of it is disgusting. Ufortunately, I am not the only one who thinks that way. If you are a man, be a man, same as if you are a woman be a woman. If that is too much for you, leave the military. One thing for sure, if anyone can not conform to the good order and discipline of the military, they can be replaced. Next thing you know we will have those wanting to marry their beasts wanting thier taylor made rights as well!!

"if a man tells me that he asked his boyfriend to marry him and he said yes. The first thing I would envision is the two of them sodomizing each other"

that's the first thing you think of? would you think of a straight couple having sex if you heard that wedding announcement? if that's the first thought coming to your head then you're a little too obsessed with gay sex.

"If you are a man, be a man, same as if you are a woman be a woman."

so if you're gay it makes you a woman? and a lesbian is a man?

"if anyone can not conform to the good order and discipline of the military"

dadt does not conform to good order or discipline. it goes against the army values

"Next thing you know we will have those wanting to marry their beasts"

who the hell wants to marry their breasts? how can breasts sign a marriage license?

Lmfao, well its good to see ajackass aka Gohmer still hanging around acting like an idiot. Still hasn't learned to read I see.

Thats great. He was given an award as a man as well, right. I love to fish. Does that mean if I recieve an award, it should stand out that I was also a fisherman?

? he's the man who discovered the first computer sequence and built the first building blocks of the internet and modern society. Really, learn to think before you go and open your mouth.

Learn to comprehend before you open yours. That was acknowledged in the post. So what the hell are you saying? That you are gay?? If you are a male sodomizer, keep it to yourself!!! Thats what else I am saying.

wtf?

War is war at whatever time this fight didn't start w/modern warfare or corporate wars that go on in recent memory you can't go forward till you understand how you relate to the past.... The argument is the same the consequences of inaction or no discussion are still causing pain and harm to people who deserve your attention and respect learn your own history .....

War isn't war at whatever time. Which fight are you talking about specifically?

Those who were historically wronged should receive attention and respect, though at the moment it is mostly innocent people within distant foreign lands will be most wronged. There is no rationale for what the West is currently engaged in militarily. A purely "let gays into the military" stance is also a blanket pro-military statement. A discussion of the honor in serving, oppose to the atrocity of what is being served. Homonationalism is not the kind of "equality" that queer individuals should be pushing for.

If Bush didn't kick out all the trained gay translators there might have been a few less bodies.

if we didn't go to war under false pretenses there'd be less bodies. if we didn't hire a private mercenary firm that was given almost no accountability for its actions there's be less bodies. if we focused on ending the war opposed to protesting a ruling that is too divisive to go away easily, there'd be less bodies.

where would more people be saved? in continued military occupation with more translators, or by ending the war?

i'm not saying it's not a stupid policy, but there are more grave issues that are being permitted by focusing on this one. it's a complete distraction from the fact we shouldn't be at war at all, and i'm sure many people like it that way.

clearly all things are relative. to you this may not be a big issue; but to a gay person serving this issue means the world.

i don't think we should be fighting this war, but it isn't going to end overnight. this policy has the potential to end now

it is a big issue to me. it changes how i am interpreted as a homosexual individual, and how i will be perceived by others.

if it could be ended by simply arguing it was stupid, then it would be fine. but when it's positioned as a patriotic issue, and an issue of being "normal" and assimilated, then i get upset. people are benefitting from DADT being on the books, because it's a pro-military issue, a wedge issue, and a way to keep the country distracted from bigger issues going on. like the fact we're in illegal wars. it won't go away that easy, and i can't support something that ultimately supports more people in war.

thousands of queer youths nationwide are trapped in closets, homeless and on the streets, suffering because the movement that is supposed to represent them is too busy focusing on the privileges of marriage and fighting in these wars. the structures that support and enforce xenophobia of all kinds in our society are going unchallenged while upperclass queer peoples focus on simply changing how the law books are written. it's sickening.

i know that it's all happened before with every social movement. it's just sad it's happening again, and no one sees it.

i see your point and for the most part i agree with you. i do see it. being gay in the public and political spotlight usually means a white cisgender middle-class male. almost every lobby group with mass amounts of money loose sight of their original goals. hrc is one of the biggest examples of that

i guess you would have to be in the military to really want this policy ended. the amount of blackmail, suicide, and sexual assault that happens because of this policy makes it a big issue for me. especially since most people discharged are minorities and women.

Any stance that aligns with pro-war rhetoric is not a victory to any degree. I find that ending ethnic cleansing and genocide more important than domestically putting minority acceptance on the books, as if laws change people's minds.

donkeyfly does make a lot of strong points, including about the focus on upper-class white cismen. The main figures of the DADT movement are white men or model minorities, while, as donkeyfly reminds, mostly minorities and women are harassed due to DADT. But supporting them publicly has never been considered, as instead it's focused on men in the locker room and other irrelevant topics.

There are all sorts of people that support war. It just goes to show how ignorant some suppressed people are to the suffering they participate in causing others.

A win is not a win. There is no black and white. I have seen no anti-DADT rhetoric that doesn't strengthen an orientalist depiction of sexually backwards and repressed Muslims, as if dehumanizing a region and those who live there wasn't easy for us already.

And progress is not progress. The queer movement should be focusing on creating a cultural stigma against child abandonment and social isolation opposed to saying "it gets better" and pursuing what is admitted as mere symbolic victories for queer youths afraid of who they are and how their family will treat them. Marriage and the right to kill foreigners in war doesn't fix social alienation for the first two decades of the lives of children. I cannot be convinced it will.

I agree with you completely. The entire military system needs a complete overhaul in design and handling because its thoroughly horrible, from limited veteran benefits for physical and psychological scarring to permitting inhumane actions from happening internally and externally.

As much as I've been keeping a hard line in this discussion, I wish DADT would be repealed with absolutely no attention or fanfare, because all the messages it sends to this country and abroad are toxic. Its appeal would make some benefits for those already suffering because of it in the military. It should not be a national discussion.

Your very welcome , its my pleasure and I'm glad you see that he. and many others are unsung heroes...
Thanks CarolineS