The fossil fuel industry disinformation campaign on climate change: A crime against humanity

Absolutely Tommic. Peak oil is now upon us (something else the oil industry knows but is keeping mum) and if we do not move now to plan for it, we are going to see a meltdown of civilization unlike any before. This isn't about "eco trolls" or some contest, this is about our continued ability to survive on this planet, and weaning off fossil fuels HAS to happen now in order for that to be viable.Too bad those who can't see beyond their up in the air noses refuse to understand this.

Don't sell the big oil companies short, they could very well and probably are well on the way to figuring out the most efficient way to manufacture a fuel that can be made from a renewable resource. After all they are in the energy business, and any good businessman or woman knows that foresight is critical if they are to survive as oil production slides. I don't like the idea but in all likelyhood the oil companies can come out like heros after years of stymieing and covering up just how much earlier we could have moved off oil, but there was too much money to be made.

No doubt that after the years of enviromental devastation they have weighed upon this planet and the toll paid in lives while they sat on the truth, they will use this as a chance to look the savior while continuing to rake in billions. But I assure you it will not be because they had an attack of conscience.

LOL they're the ultimate capitalists/ socialists taking gov. subsidies while raking in hundreds of billions in profits over the years. They have the system beat coming and going but as long as they can grease a palm and some asshole will take it they will continue. I certainly hope I am wrong, they are inherintly evil people who only wish to exert greater and greater control over markets and governments

You make good arguments and so does Jan, but I don't credit oil companies with a tremendous amount of intellect or foresight. They were caught by the 1973 oil embargo just as much as everybody else. They thought there was no end to oil. They were lulled into dumbdom by Rock Hudson and Doris Day movies of the 1960's and skirt chasing Betty Grable and Marilyn Monroe and so on & so forth.

It was the high point of Rome when no one was looking into the future looking for our downfall. They were all looking at BOSOMS and skirts flying into the air from a sidewalk grate. You can indulge yourselves all you want makes no difference to me but applying our knowledge of today over the people back then is, I think, a mistake.

We were just coming out of paying 8 cents for a gallon of gasoline.

I hate to tell you this Jan because I really like you in a hot teacher kind of way but With all them Republicans in office The air quality is not a top concern on the list of worries for them. They just don't care about the air. Now oil Thats what they worry about not where it's going but how much they can pump from the ground. i love what your doing by the way.

"...carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases will trap heat in the form of sunlight, raising global temperatures to potentially dangerous levels."

Had any of that been true the planet would have burned to a cinder millions of years ago.

Thanks and I know that, but we still have our voices and the truth behind us. Now is not the time to be silent. Personally, I think a campaign should be waged to embarass these ignoramuses in public every chance they can be so people see what frauds they are. I usually don't watch shows like this, but George Stephanopoulous (sp?) did a pretty good job of it there.

It's difficult to find appropriate words to describe this, but desperation springs to mind!

"...and the global climate model was run forward in time to see what would happen to the greenhouse effect."
Oh look, it's another of Gavin Schmidt's models, not real life, not science, it's a computer game, nothing more than that! What do they say about computers? Rubbish in rubbish out, and here's a classic example.

Not quoted above, but this sentence in the original text states, "Andrew Lacis and colleagues conducted a set of idealized climate model experiments..."
Idealized climate model? Is that any better than a 'normal' climate model?
Seeing as all the models have failed miserably so far, why should anyone take the slightest bit of notice of this comedy?
Seeing as Schmidt has been described as "an embarrassment" by NASA, why should we take the slightest notice of his propaganda?
Seeing as GISS continually manipulate past (and current) temperature records and have a lousy grasp of science, why should we listen to them?

As far as atmospheric gases are concerned, water vapour is far more potent. CO2 does not control earth's temperature.

Who is paying you to post this crap, JfG? Someone must be telling you what to post, are you in the pay of GISS? I write that because you've proved time and time again that you have absolutely no understanding of science. When presented with a scientific document your only comment was "the charts were all over the place"! So why post things when you have no understanding of them? All I can think of is that you're being paid to post propaganda.

Come on JanfofGore... who is paying you?

Sorry if facts are making you upset, troll. Live with it because this next two years will see me and other concerned citizens IN YOUR FACE, so to speak.

Oh, you sound so grown up when you have little rants like this - so cute :)

...and if anyone's still interested in this propaganda filled thread, spewed from the biased bowels of an inebriated JanforGore, here's a little more information on Schmidt and NASA:

"In court documents filed last night, the Competitive Enterprise Institute argues that NASA has gone out of its way to avoid turning over records that show the agency reverse-engineered temperature data to better make the case that the planet is becoming warmer.
CEI, which is being represented by Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher’s Andrew Tulumello, argues in a pleading filed in Washington federal court that NASA’s request for summary judgment in the Freedom of Information Act suit against the agency should be denied because e-mails and other evidence turned over by NASA suggest that there are additional records that are being withheld.

“Rather than deal forthrightly with a FOIA request on these issues, NASA has engaged in obstruction and delay,” Tulumello writes in the court filing, which was filed late last night in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.

CEI argues in the Nov. 3 motion that NASA has additional e-mails and documents on separate servers that relate to changes made to temperature data, but has failed to turn them over. CEI also argues that Dr. James Hansen, the director of NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies, and Dr. Gavin Schmidt, a climatologist and climate modeler at Goddard, used third-party Web sites and e-mail addresses to avoid having those records appear on NASA’s servers.

“The e-mails among the NASA scientists working on this project reflect a conscious choice to keep the final explanation off of NASA’s servers,” Tulumello writes.

NASA, which is being represented by Julie Straus, a trial attorney in the Justice Department’s Civil Division, requested summary judgment in the case on Sept. 20, arguing that CEI already has access to the data it is trying to obtain and that CEI's FOIA requests don’t seek computer programs and data files. NASA contends that CEI’s FOIA requests only sought “records, documents, and international communications” related to the alleged changes to temperature data.

“The Agency had no obligation under the FOIA to search Dr. Schmidt’s email correspondence, nor to release to Plaintiff any of Dr. Schmidt’s emails. Even so, on December 29, 2009, and July 9, 2010, the Agency, in its discretion, did release to Plaintiff copies of those emails of Dr. Schmidt’s that pertain to the subject matter sought by Plaintiff’s request,” Straus wrote in the motion for summary judgment.

CEI filed suit against NASA in May, alleging that in 2007 and 2008, it submitted, but has not yet received adequate responses to, FOIA requests seeking NASA documents related to changes made to NASA’s temperature data in response to questions raised by statistician Steven McIntyre. McIntyre runs Climate Audit, a blog devoted to the analysis and discussion of climate data.

CEI argues that McIntyre discovered errors in NASA’s data that resulted in an overstatement of the amount that temperatures have risen in the United States since 2000. Those allegedly erroneous data, CEI says, have been used by Goddard to make claims in the media that temperatures in the United States have risen dramatically during the past 10 years. Among those claims was that 1998 was the “hottest” year on record.

CEI alleges that, once the errors were pointed out in August 2007, NASA made a series of changes to the data and then “sought to reverse-engineer the temperature data so that 1998 could again be deemed the warmest year on record.”

NASA’s delays in responding to the FOIA requests prompted Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) and Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) to call for an investigation by the agency's inspector general on Dec. 3, 2009. The inspector general's investigation determined that the delays were caused by “inadequate direction given...as to what documents were requested and a due date for a response,” “inadequate communication,” and “inadequate staffing at the Goddard FOIA office.”

As pointed out in CEI’s court filings, Hansen is also known as an environmental activist. In September, Hansen was one of 100 people arrested in front of the White House while engaging in a protest against mountaintop removal mining.

Tulumello said in an interview, “There is very powerful evidence that NASA disregarded the FOIA requests because what the record reflects raises very significant questions about the changes made to the data.”

NASA has two weeks to respond to CEI’s opposition to the motion for summary judgment. If summary judgment is denied by Judge Richard Roberts, the case would proceed to discovery.

Straus declined to comment. "

Lying means more to them than their own children's health. Again they are monsters.

Yes and good to see how the truth upsets them so much they follow me around to divert... the best testimonial of it.

I DON'T GET PAID BY ANYONE and unlike those like yourself who only play this game here in order to make believe you are straddling the line when you are really an apologist for these corporate polluters, the oil industry ADMITS that AGW exists, and they still LIE about its effects and the health effects of their products to make a profit all for the sake of their ideology. So don't come at me with your rhetoric about this side or that side to confuse this issue. For over THIRTY YEARS this lobby has perpetrated a well premeditated attack on truth that now sees our climate balance headed for a precipice that is and WILL effect millions of lives. THAT's the difference.

And this comment is an apt illustration of why you aren't taken seriously here.

You question my motives, my sincerity and passion, and the reality of this crisis because you just don't like that I support the man you hate or are jealous of. But again, I made no mention of him here at all. The fact that you bring him up in every response is your giveaway. That is your MO here and the real reason why you respond to me. You don't give two sh*** about this topic. So take your "questions" elsewhere.

Good post Jan but you're totally overlooking the nation's train industry. They fight against my air + steam engine because they understand it is an ADVANCED STEAM ENGINE that if made available to the Nation's TRUCKING INDUSTRY would take away their prospects of taking down the {ugh ooh filthy fuel} trucking industry.

My engine destroys the train industry's plans for an I-81 railroad "corridor" as they call it, where they plan to save fuel by hauling pre-loaded trailers north & south to waiting truckers being paid a pittance of current wages.

My engine makes more jobs by having zero fuel pollution trucks. You are fighting more than any crude oil lobby Jan. The fight is much bigger than that => it includes the trains. I think they already bulldozed over those poor residents in Elliston Virginia to build their terminal. In Virginia, Norfolk and Southern manage to always get what they want [partly by having the monies to buy off all politicians who dare think about getting in their way].

Jan, I think you're gonna lose. All the "Big Boys" want the crude oil and toy trains. Not even Mr. Gore can stop this big a consortium, cabal. I think you'd be talking a civil war-level effort involving US troops to win such an endeavor... because their side has Halliburton and their army of highly-paid mercenaries.

Our only Hope is Jesus. Trust in Jesus Jan.

Emotional, propagandist claptrap!
You always accuse your opponents of being in the pay of big oil, so now it's your turn - just who are you being paid by to post this rubbish?
You continually prove you have no scientific knowledge, fail to be able to interpret simple articles, are over-emotional and sensationalistic about the most minor issues... in a nutshell - you're nothing more than a failed activist (and not a very good one at that) who is still stuck in the 1970s.
You should know a lot more about funding than you're letting on, so why don't you tell your supporter about Green funding? Tell us who funds Green groups Jan - fluffy bunnies and fairies?

On the contrary old girl, MrMxyzptlk is taken very seriously here :)

MrMxyzptlk's question "...but it comes down to the question of why trust yours and not trust mine?" is an excellent question. Notice how JanforGore fails to answer it - nothing new there, then!

The answer is really quite simple, though, and this is why JanforGore decided to avoid the issue - because 'experts' who for decades have told us of impending doom, an ice-free Artic, tipping points, and global devastation have been proved wrong time and time again. Their predictions fall widely short of the mark yet they continue to proffer their forecasts expecting us to believe them. They rely on blind faith for their existence.

Conversely, the scientists who have told us about natural cycles, who are doing real research that has visible results, and who have nothing to gain financially either way are constantly having their theories proved correct.

So, why believe in people who have been proved wrong countless times, have been shown to have lied, manipulated and lost data, and whose funding dwarfs that of scientists whose work has a proven track record?

And as for this: "...before the Arctic completely melts away." Take note, again - you will never see an ice-free Arctic.

NASA is a government department. Great chart, by the way!!! It tends to match the propaganda produced by the IPCC, but is there any wonder?

Why do you not post your steam designs so people can see them ?

Lack of money. And before I got anyone helping me the Gov squashed everybody's bank accounts down flat, that didn't help either.

It will get built one day. Beauty cannot be repressed forever.

I hate being the only one who can see it so clearly. It makes me feel selfish. I had someone working on the animation with a complicated design software called 3-d StudioMax, We were about halfway through when I saw a change had to be made a ways back. Making that change threw all subsequent changes off.

It's exhaustive mental work. To get it completed would require a couple hundred bucks. My disability check can't do that. But, the President wants Lev trains and my engine is a lightweight dynamo, so you would think the fix is in already, but it isn't, so there ya go.

They're planning to use the Japanese system out in space to beam down a concentrated beam of solar energy is my understanding. Whenever there's a simple way and an exotic way they tend to choose the exotic. It's what ya do when your pockets are filled with other people's money.

Jesus was suspect because he was born of the tribe of Judah but at that time everybody looked to the tribe of Levi for their priests. I'm not of the right tribe either => the Old Guy Tribe that doesn't get loans.

So the Blessing will have to pass you by I reckon. So far it has passed you buy for 7+ years so I think you'll live. You will keep eating from the plate your master shoves through the door.

No big whoop. We just need a different master who uses a much bigger door.

So true. They are monsters.

Thank you. Just wish I had heard it in more campaigns to counter the climate denying oil soaked rhetoric. Democrats on the whole shied away from the one important issue they needed to hit hard on because it effects jobs, our health, and our lives! Maybe, just maybe one day we will finally get someone who runs who doesn't shy away from this because they are afraid of polls before the Arctic completely melts away. They need to understand that the American people are ahead of the curve on global warming and want action despite this well moneyed rhetoric!

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."

- Bertrand Russell

The American people are ahead of the curve on nothing.

Polls are inaccurate, too restricted, too open to miscommunication and pointed questions asked to get a desired result. Voting is the only poll that matters and as we saw in California yesterday people are indeed ahead of the curve regarding the detrimental effects of fossil fuels. The only reason some poll might be down now is again proof of the billions spent by the fossil fuel industry to lie to them. I truly think more are seeing the light on this and more will. You can stay trapped in the dirty past.

So you mean polls are ok so long as they say what you want them to say? I get it.

No, polls are inaccurate as I stated. Read what I type and you won't need to ask what it means.

Do you know something JfG? I actually agree with you. Polls are notoriously inaccurate, well, some of them anyway, so you have a point. My point, though, was to post a poll that countered your equally inaccurate assumption that the "American people are ahead of the curve on global warming and want action..."
Call it evens? Here look, I'll even vote you up :)

Greenpeace? Who in their right mind would take any notice of a propaganda group who Forbes magazine once described as "a skillfully managed business” with full command of “the tools of direct mail and image manipulation -- and tactics that would bring instant condemnation if practiced by a for-profit corporation"?

It's also interesting to look into GreenPeace and other Green groups' funding - links to big oil there too? Oh yes!