Students Who Wore 'Straight Pride' T-Shirts During Gay Bullying Awareness Week Will Not Be Punished

"Great majority" is an invented term to make a minority sound huge and important. Quit lying, find statistics.

That same line of thought could apply to men not wanting to give women rights, and white people not wanting to give black people rights. The reason that things like human rights and discrimination should not be decided upon democratically is because then nothing would ever change, the majority would continue to discriminate against the minority.

I don't care if religious people do not accept homosexuality. They have the right to belief in whatever they want, but everyone else has right to not be subjected to the religious beliefs of others. Thus, Christian anti-gay sentiments cannot prevent the legal granting of equal rights to gay people, because that goes against the separation of church and state.

Oh, also, "the Agenda" does not exist. It's a stupid and ridiculous tactic used by conservatives to instill the fear of gay people into the general (dumb-enough-to-belief-it) public. All we want is equal rights, no one is trying to take away the rights of straight people or promote homosexuality. We just want discrimination against gay people to stop. That's it.

sence nonheteros utilized it as a derogatory word for nonheteros at the end of the last millienium in the 19th century

Well really who dont love em, they are just so cheery and fashionable.

I agree wholeheartedly... except they are students in high school. In high school freedom of speech is NOT protected. I cant call a teacher a douchebag even if its true. Nor can i wear a shirt that says "Theres a party in my pants and everyone's invited" or wear a shirt with a big pot leaf on it that says "Smoke everyday". I find it troubling that these students wore anti-gay t-shirts all day and were not reprimanded.

I agree with you 100%

I was actually having this same discussion with my uncle when he came to visit last year and he brought up those same stastics after I started talking about the number of gay-oriented television shows and programming on TeeVee and radio and other forms of media.

If no one knew the true statistics and only went by the TeeVee alone, one would assume that the population of gays in the US would be like closer to 20% or 25%.

Just another example of how the media twists and contorts people's perception of reality.

75% of men are gay in SF? Well you could tell her that the Castro by itself might be about 75% gay!

If a person is allowed to where a black pride T-shirt, wouldn't you be compelled to allow someone else wear a white pride T-shirt. Don't they have equal protection under their first amendment rights?

I disagree with your assessment that gays cannot be identified by their outward appearances. In some cases, they can.

There are white and black lifestyles, and other lifestyles of race. Creoles and Cajuns, for example. Rastafarian, etc.

And as for your last paragraph, you say that the gay lifestyle is being "pushed" upon you just because it is simply visible in the media. An instance of a gay couple going to prom in a cartoon is your example of "pushing."

Your point of view is that it's okay to be gay and all, as long as it's mostly hidden in any representations on your TV shows, in your movies, are anywhere else you seek entertainment. The truth of the matter is that you are intolerant. You're asking a minority group of people to suppress themselves.

It could be argued that a surge in hip-hop music was promoting a lifestyle. It could be argued that an interracial couple on TV was pushing something on us. Your argument can be applied to racial situations as well.

There are no racial lifestyles, there are cultural ones and religious ones , rastafari is a religion that originated in jamaica based on repratriation to africa and ethopian messiah , christianity originated in palestine amongst a sect of jewish people who later allowed others in who also believed in jesus being the son of god. No one would say that if your a christian your living a palestinian or jewish lifestyle , or if your a catholic . they would not say your living a roman or italian lifestyle , sure their are lifestyles and cultures that evolved all over the world , but especially now in this day and age , race and culture and religions a much more complicated thing ,

I submit that gays cant be conclusively identified as such by outwardly appearance , there are straight men who happen to act feminine , the whole metrosexual and skinny jeans fashion craze has showed that , and you have bi sexual men who are fully capable of living a happy and fulfilling life with a woman who may have voice patterns or mannerisms that may possibly indicate that they're gay , but if they deny it and dont live a gay lifestyle how are you to conclusively say that they're gay? you can only make accusations in which case anyone who acts effeminate falls into that category , being a visible minority you cant hide or change the way you act to fit in , however a gay man can.

The entertainment and media is a central part of society , hell millions of kids are being raised on tv right now , some of our fondest childhood memories involve tv and other types of entertainment , now in 2011 , our entertainment from movies to tv shows is in our pockets on our cellphones on our ipods , the information sent through these mediums build and shape society so yes , promoting homosexuality through these mediums is pushing.

Intolerance you say? NewsFlash buddy just because a guy gets offended or disgusted by seeing acts of homosexuality ,and does not want it in his home or enviroment does not mean he is intolerant , most of the people who say yes to gay marriage , or even work with gays , do not want to be exposed to acts homosexuality or homosexual lifestyle nor want it involved in their family life , keyword being "homosexuality" that doesnt mean the gay couple that mom invited from work cant come over for the family barb-Q , thats tolerance , but if two men start making out in the livingroom and telling the little boy that they gonna make a handsome man happy someday their gonna find my boot in they ass.

How many straight guys go to gay bars ? not much well that says it all , this isnt a situation of culture or race , this is not guys not secure in their sexuality , a lotta guys are just bioengineered to be woman loving straight men and cannot stand the idea of gay sex.

Race and sexual orientation are not comparable issues , one is based in biology and the other in learned behaviour and perception , that vast majority of men are biochemically engineered to reproduce , some are built to go about it more aggressively than others , but the biological component will remain a constant , meanwhile perceptions, feelings and learned behaviour change . Homosexuality and its increasing push toward the mainstream is bombarding people with a lifestyle that is in direct conflict with the majority of peoples biological heterosexual make up and while some can deal with it , many others cant and the hostility toward homosexuals will increase.

What im saying is this , homosexual acts and encouraging homosexuality on the heterosexual population will forever be found to be offensive by large segments of the population , one of the phrases used to define the word "tolerate" is "to put up with" well im here to tell you there is a line between gay and straight many may be confused as to where it exactly exists but its there and the more gay behaviour is out in the public the more homosexuality is pushed on the public , violence toward gays will increase , dont agree?

Look at the facts , the united kingdom , the usa , amsterdam , and brazil , as far as laws go these places are not hostile to gays , even as laws changed the affect wasn't immeadiate , but as visual displays of homosexuality in public or through media increased so did the violence and it continues to rise not only in those places but many more around the world , as much as people would like to believe that we can "civilize" and "mature" beyond our biology its simply not the case , bisexualizing society is not the method that will yield peaceful co-existence between gay and straight , understanding the dynamics of how we affect each other and using some tact and discretion will yield better results and then using that information to mold society is the ticket.

Im a straight guy i live and let live , for years the arguement was "why should you worry about what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom" which is a fair arguement but when that situation is being forced to become a integral part of my day to day existence then i have to say something and im not wrong for doing so.

+^d

Hey im gay and not wounded at all, and gltb students that go to that school should be helped to understand that these things shouldnt wound them, but rather make them pity the men wearing them. When someone hates there is always a misunderstood pain at its root. Dont hate the haters but rather share their sorrow, for their sorrow and fear is the true root of hate.

I was the same way in high school, hell I was the same way in Jr. High. We need to be helping our young people to have self confidence. I was always taught to pity the haters and to this day I still do.

They have my pity, because hate blackens their hearts and burdens their souls.

Its their right no matter what. Im in highschool and many people wore purple in honor of the kids who committed suicide. I saw this one guy draw a purple noose on his hand. He probably shoulda been suspended for that because that is way out of line and there is hate in that. But wearing a heterosexual pride shirt is way diff. let them have pride. If their ignorant tell them their wrong. Let them use their rights as we use ours.

If want to suspend a kid for an imagination a little bit over-active then that would accelerate the tendency toward hate. Gay children are sensitive but some other kids are too. To make the point across maybe have him scrub the "purple noose" with soapy water. That way you've seeded respect to the next circumstance many years later. Help people turn off their tv's.. the underlying theme is hate.

I was saying under school policy he probably should have been suspended. Suspending people really doesn't solve the problem. If these people really are that hateful then they need help. That help can't come from sitting at home watching tv all day. Anyways the guy was just trying to make a joke but it really wasnt funny. It was promoting hate.

Then we actually agree that the policy would NOT do any good to solve these school issues of hate-prejudice. If children are to be suspended then this only indicates of a problem deeper to the parents but I think a purple marker "noose" is mostly a *benign* act that can be dealt with by the schools as a *school-related problem*. If parents raised a bully child then it's not necessary maybe that they know every time that child gets into trouble.. (suspension in not a lesson for the kid as much as it is to punish the parents).. with the exception if it becomes something other than a silent protest then I really don't believe in a method that prevents kids from being kids.. so regardless, right or wrong.. some will just do it for the reaction that an authority has told them NOT to. (so sorry to sound like drivel this late)

The world doesnt give a damn about sensitivity. if you cant handle a couple T-shirts, you might as well kill yourself.

Well, what do gay people have to be proud about? It goes both way. Don't stoop to these children's levels by way of hate.

I agree! I just wanted to say it, I thought I would get a response like that. Sexuality is not exactly something to be proud of, how you use it in times of oppression to help others is something to be proud of though, and gay, straight and asexual people are all capable of that.

Have you read the rest of the bible?

Its the bible, nobody ever said it was written by the inteligent.

So apparently, GIRL-ON-GIRL action is aye okay with God!

exactly, lesbianism is never mentioned in the bible, this either means... women were not important enough to get a mention like that in the bible (which is probably why it was written like that) or, lesbianism was actually fine, rife and practiced by all, in which case, I want to go back to biblical times

you're right, but trying telling that to a priest!

nay, I'm a bit too old for fantasy fiction nowadays.

lol. well ofcourse, and that is because it IS the females fault. It's our vagina's, I don't know exactly what it is but they f*ck the world up.

Fuck Ed Hardy.

i can comprehend (although not understand) the pride idea, but the bible quote, imho, incites hatred. I it was just "If a man lay with a male as those who lay with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" that would be a perfectly sound opinion, but the death part "surely" implies violence.

Very polite reply, btw.

I must rebut:
I see the "straight pride" statement as an equal and opposite reaction to the "gay pride" statement. In fact, it brings up a good point: How would the school react to a "White Pride" or to a "Black Pride" shirt?

But it is your second point that is troublesome. Correct me if my interpretation of your text is wrong. You believe that If their shirts would have just said "If a man lay with a male as those who lay with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" -- that this would be a valid and just T-shirt to allow, even though you might not agree with the statement yourself. However, you feel that since the shirts said "If a man lay with a male as those who lay with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and shall surely be put to death" -- that this last part of the statement implies violence and therefore might incite violence and should not be allowed.

Have I construed your statements justly?

Now let me speak candidly to you. What is the difference? It's still the same Bible verse. Even without the ending phrase physically being on the T-shirt. This is the factual Biblical content! The dirty truth of the Biblical Quote! The Bible implies that violent action should occur in said situation. But just because these kids quote a Bible verse doesn't mean they want to incite violence. They are just warning you of what they believe to be true. The word of God. In fact, the Bible verse does not instruct anyone to commit the violence and implies that God will take care of that violence for us.

The right thing to do would be to let these kids quote the Bible on their T-shirts and let them say "Straight Pride" on their shirts as well.

Freedom of Religion: CHECK
Freedom of Speech: CHECK
Allowing a real-life scenario of constitutional values and tolerance to play out at a very time when tolerance and individual rights awareness are being promoted: CHECK

I agree 100% percent they should be allowed to wear the shirt, frankly I think everyone who beleives this should wear this tshirt, that way the rest of the world can spot them and give them distance.

Freedom of religion does not imply freedom to make threats

The Bible quote quote clearly promotes violence against gays, as you point out "The Bible implies that violent action should occur in said situation."

Actually, it doesn't clearly promote violence against gays:

"If a man lay with a male as those who lay with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and shall surely be put to death."

This could be interpreted as thus: God will surely put them to death.
(If they interpreted the verse this way, they are not promoting violence. They are simply trying to save our souls. A similar situation occurs here, in New Orleans, on Bourbon Street. Certain Christians will picket a corner with large signs that quote Bible verses. They typically warn that all of the debauchery being committed is a serious offense to God and that we will all be punished in one way are another. These people are clearly not promoting violence against us, but merely warning against the violence that God will inevitably throw upon us.)

It is interesting that the discussion is focused on these two kids, rather than being focused on the stupidity and violence of the Old Testament. I believe religion is more at fault for making this violence acceptable than the naive kids are for using it as their parents and others have done.

You are splitting hairs. If the phrase "both of them have committed an abomination and shall surely be put to death" does not promote violence against gays it certainly seems to justify it.

I will agree that religion is at fault for making violence against gays acceptable to some.

I agree with Unimatrix on this one. Also, your examples are out of place, I think; what people protest and profess on street corners is anybody's business, literally. The student body of a high school is a much different situation.

A quote does not have to clearly promote violence against gays to clearly promote violence, or the justification of violence, itself. These types of items are already commonly outlawed at many high schools for good reason; they will, eventually, incite violence or a large degree of unrest in the student body.

"The Bible implies that violent action should occur in said situation. But just because these kids quote a Bible verse doesn't mean they want to incite violence. They are just warning you of what they believe to be true. The word of God. In fact, the Bible verse does not instruct anyone to commit the violence and implies that God will take care of that violence for us."

Students can warn each other of what they believe to be true in the hallways, on their own time, with their own words, if they truly feel strongly about it. The word of God, or any other religion, has no place staring someone in the face during class ( I mean, really, imagine for a second if you were stuck behind a group of the Straight Priders as a gay person in class. Distracting much?).

Whether the death comes from an omnipotent being or one's own fists, a death threat is still a death threat, and should NEVER be taken lightly, or seen as an issue of "free speech", especially in a school environment where impressionable, young, hormonally charged teenagers are learning who and what they want to be like as they grow older into maturity. This, I think, is showing these kids that it's okay to intimidate and strike fear into people, as long as it's through words and not action.

Great thoughtful discussion, by the way. Thank you.
~nabe

yeah that says it all for me pretty much...

I think your logic is perfectly sound. I don't understand how others on this strand can't tell the difference between freedom of speech, and inciting violence. People can disagree with one another, but I think that stops when one of them says, "and by the way, I would have you put to death." That's like wearing a shirt at a voting center that says, "If you vote for Jane Smith, somebody should kill you."

you could edit or delete your first comment. it's a bit confusing. no big though!

^'d

separation of church and state. It is a grey area but the shirt bearing the scripture could be held as religious propaganda.

There's nothing in the principle of separation of church and state that forbids students from wearing a t-shirt with a biblical quote on it.

I think if it were something that the teacher had advocated or promoted to an entire class then you'd have an argument.

A. If the majority of the US doesn't believe in evolution, they likely believe the Bible is all they need to determine what is moral and not.
B. Death and injury aren't the only things that must be challenged to create an accepting society. Hurtful words create fear and oppress. Permitting it normalizes it.
C. If the shirt just said Straight Pride, it would have been an odd choice but not worth mentioning in any substantial way. It wasn't that simple.
D. As JosephJinx said, a similar instance that targeted any other minority group would have received resounding backlash. This isn't being better than political correctness. This is hateful speech.

well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the God of the Bible does say some pretty hateful things...so what do we do with students who want to parade around with those hateful words on their T-shirts? Is the argument with the God who is credited with authoring those statements, with the students who think it's a good idea to quote that God, or with the school administrators who probably aren't sure who the bad guy is here, or even if there is one?

I think the entire situation addresses one of those issues that we, as a nation with a "Christian" heritage are reluctant to really examine.

@:C

Lolz, not yet.

I know of many Christians who reject oppressive and genocidal parts of the Bible and still have a strong love for God. Attacking the figure that the bigots who wore these shirts use to vindicate themselves misses the mark and pushes away more allies than it does support them. God is different than Christianity. Jesus is different than Christianity. Ghandi said it best.

To try to infer here, and I'm sorry if I am doing so incorrectly, I'm completely unconvinced that secularizing all of society will erase prejudice and enlighten people. The West already uses models of Western feminism and Western queerness to judge other cultures and imperialize them "for their own benefit", which comes from an entirely secular mindset. Fighting just religion distracts from the fact that everyone is part of the oppressive system we must fight.

I tend to agree. I don't understand people who claim to be Christian, and then go around using the Bible to virtually "beat up" other people...very Westboro mentality.

I agree, they definitely chose the most inflammatory quote they could find and one that's certainly not reflective of mainstream Christianity today. A much more mature thing to do would for them to have put one of the TONS of Biblical quotes about loving those around you even if you don't agree with their views or practices or whatever. It would have been a much better representation of how Christians should behave and treat others.

I agree 100%. I'm a Christian, but I would NEVER go around supporting a view/quote like that. It would have been so much more responsible for them to have used one of the many many many MANY pieces of scripture that talks about loving those around you regardless of their views or circumstance and having compassion rather than judgement. That's what the core of Christianity is about and it's really awful that they didn't take this opportunity to express that rather than hate.

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