so if he was entrapped, it must be human nature when given a bomb to seek to blow up others with it.
i guess im just wierd, cuz if i had all the c4 in the world i wouldnt seek to use it.
i guess im just woerd like that.

are you 19? are you muslim or islamic? are you radically opposed to the western/American government, or anything else you have determined to be a threat so much so that you are willing to die for your beliefs, or take another life? My guess is no, probably because you have been raised in an environment that values life. This kid identified with a group he thought supported him and accepted him, encouraging him to become part of their community by killing people he didn't really know.

Obviously there is a jump to the next level, but young people everywhere are often quick to jump to extremes, why they join gangs, the military, commit petty crimes, etc. Teenagers are emotionally frustrated often and are easily susceptible to irrational/emotional thinking and decisions. Its really too bad, and if he had the right kind of guidance, rather than FBI influence who paid his rent, and supplied him with the materials necessary to "show his loyalty to the cause", things might have been different.

As it was, this happened instead. Again, its a shame, and its good that nothing happened. But can we say that anything would have happened otherwise? Bombs aren't hard to make, and I would hope that the FBI is able to bring down terrorists who are trying to destroy people's lives without more or less creating them to begin with.

im not 19, but was once, for a whole year in wich i didnt kill anyone.
not muslim, but jewish as if that matters in any way.
opposed yes, radicaly no.more of a "hangs head and shakes slowly" kind of way

i am how ever perfectly willing and able to take life for my beliefs, if pressed to such a point, wich all of us are no?

"This kid identified with a group he thought supported him and accepted him, encouraging him to become part of their community by killing people he didn't really know."

and the same applies to skin heads, wich doesnt negate thier crimes when they commit them.
btw the fbi offered several opportunities for this kid to not kill, and in fact on tape told the kid "you dont have to kill in order to be a good muslim".this kids actions are 100 percent a result of his will, and his will alone.

" rather than FBI influence who paid his rent, and supplied him with the materials necessary to "show his loyalty to the cause", things might have been different."

sure would have been.especialy if he sought that canadian jackass, or al-queda, or any number of jihadi organizations.no one doubts how rife for exploitation the youth are, as it isnt a coincidence that the majority of people entrenched in fruitless persuits as jihad, or gang banging are under 20.but it doesnt change the fact that despite thier naive nature, they pose a threat.unless in your world bombs dont kill as effectively if set off by a child as opposed to an adult?

actualy a pretty huge argument exists to say that had the fbi not intervined, the explosives he was persuing would have killed.the fbi are doing the exact job they are designated to do.the cia has the job of defending us from terrorists abroad, and the fbi has the task of doing the same, domesticaly.if not this method, what method should the fbi be employing?
i personaly love this method, as it works.it both baits the would be jihadi into exposing himself, and allows him to commit the crime without killing anyone.
if you have a better method of how we figure out who among us wish's to destroy us, please share.until then this bait and switch is all we can do.

good point. give him the death penalty, thats what he deserves.

http://right.it

im not for capital punishment, as it removes any rightiousness in deeds.if you bring yourself down the the level of function that is to be deemed unacceptable (killing) then it negates the very idea that it was wrong, as we did it to be right.it cant be both right and wrong at the same time.

but he does need to be removed from society, and preferably from lawnfertalizer and diesel fuel as well.

how about a nice open field he can frolic in then, far from bombs or weapons? I'm not saying the kid wasn't disturbed, but he was definitely pushed in the wrong directions. What if you thought a neo-hitler/nazi empire was trying to exterminate Jews and their religion today, would you then try to take people out?

actually, some people would rather die than kill others if pressed to a point. I think that was the whole point of the Jesus story, but radical rundamentalists are willing to sacrifice themselves even to make a dent in what they perceive to be an empire of corruption "clearly" targeting muslims in their wars. Are we not in an East vs. West War? Why would a muslim kid not identify with his roots, and consider carrying on the jihadist terror tactic, blowing people up and making the population fear their enemy as opposed to carrying on buying and consuming, while "his people" are getting bombs rained on them on the other side of the world.

I agree there is surely responsibility that lies on this guy, just as there is responsibility that needs to be taken by gang-bangers that grow up in the hood and feel the need to pick up a gun and kill people over territory. It is the most basic evidence of in-group/outgroup relations: kill the others before they kill me. but whereas you identify as a westernized citizen, he may not. Picture yourself in Iran, with the government stating that it is going to get nuclear weapons and wipe Israel off the map. Imagine you see a nuclear scientist walking around and you have the potential to kill him, thereby potentially saving the Jewish state. Would you consider it?

Don't give Muslim men $3000 and the means to build a bomb would be a pretty good start

are you supposing muslim men have a prediliction towards murder more than most?
if we dont give those willing to carry out terror operations false supplies, those who want our demise will supply them with the real stuff.
anytime you create a means by wich we can defend ourselves from being attacked, please let us know.but as it is, this is the best means by wich we can determine who among us wants to destroy us.

if you gave 3k to any charity, that also has a political agenda attached, you would be looked into.
the adl could give a shit less who donates to what charities, in any way.
it isnt aiding and abetting terrorism, as no terrorism occured in order for the fbi to aid or abett.you can charge the fbi with aiding and abetting a terrorist, once he is found to be one, but that is as close as it gets.give me $3000, and no one will get blowed up.its just that simple.
are undercover cops who pose as drug dealers, aiding and abetting drug addicts?
same protocal.

yes, of course.it is the oppressive nature of oregons society that drove this retard to terrorism.he couldnt make it as a drug dealer, wich would have made him 3k in a week.he couldnt have been a pimp to the same end.he couldnt work at any of the jobs all the rest of us do to get 3k.sure, when offered 3k all of us would kill others for it.what world do you live in?

why does what ed koch have to say, even remotely matter.he was a mayor when i was a kid, and this jerkoff is in oregon, not new york.koch is as relevant as oriely or maddow, actualy less so really.

you can cry all you want about civil liberties, but at the end of the day our government, and its agencies are directly responsable for protecting our civil liberties.all of us, not some of us based on religion or what ever, but the mass's.one dick wants to kill a few hundred, the fbi's job is to protect the hundreds.
find a better way to go about reading the minds of terrorists so that we may know who they are before the fact, and you have an excellent point.
in lue of that procedure, you just asking the federal governemt to stand down, in the face of terrorism.wich you are entitled to do if you like, but ya cant be surprised when it is recieved as insane.

as long as said field has no sharp objects it sounds just dandy.i mean ya cant give this moron sharps.
pushed? really? how do ya do that? how do you push some one to terrorise exactly?

"What if you thought a neo-hitler/nazi empire was trying to exterminate Jews and their religion today, would you then try to take people out? "

it would depend on how oppressive said regime was.
if we are talking 1930's or 40's germany, yes i would take them out.
if we are talking about contemperary society, i would seek an authority in this matter, not assume im the best person to combat it.
but above all else, regardless of situation, i wouldnt consider civilian casualties as a victory, as civilians arent the enemy.by defenition they are well, civilians.non-combatants.
not tricky shit to me.

we are involved in two wars, that to any sane person have no clear definition.the search for wmd's, terrorism,islam,oil,other natural resources,east vs west, or christian crusaders vs islam or what ever twisted shit maasonova thinks up.regardless, it doesnt call for blowing shit up, regardless.no more than ww2 wasnt a call for our german or japanese citizens to blow shit up.
nor was vietnam a call for vietnamese citizens to blow shit up.
do you imagine if tomorrow we went to war with israel, jews would go on jihad?really would we?

yes if one identifies one self with a people they see being treated poorly, that treatment is taken personaly.even if not done to that person.but no matter how many antisemitic comments are posted on here, or how many of our grave stones are vandalized, or temples spraypainted with swaztikas, we dont attack.we take it personaly, as our identity is being attack, but the response isnt to randomly kill those who may or may not hate us.

btw, "his people" are americans.just as my people arent israelis.

no i wouldnt kill the iranian scientist, as though shall not kill doesnt have exceptions.and im starting to wonder about you, as you seem to find a whole lot of wiggle room in regards to murder.im an american citizen, and as such live freely and have no cause to kill, as kill or be killed are not the circumstances under wich we live.

if it were justifiable by all to kill as wantonly as this jackass desired, wouldnt jews be on jihad all over the middle east, and americans flying plains into mecca?
right and wrong in this regard isnt a clouded issue.

Your arguments are very weak for supporting the illegal practices of entrapment.

Bottom line is that if you don't give kids $3000 and the means to make a bomb, the kid probably wouldn't be trying to carry out terrorism.

Besides the informants probably told him "Hey we're going to run a safety drill and we need it to be as realistic as possible. Here's $5000 and a fake bomb, all you need to do is run out in the middle of the street with this fake detenator and scream "Allah Akbar."

my arguments are weak in this regard? says the guy who wants us to have our national security rely upon "probably".
"dont worry about the jihadists, they probably wont fly a plane into the wtc"
how did that work out when bush employed that reasoning?

being as a bazillion incidences of terrorism have occured, regardless of money, the idea that it was the 3000k that was the cause is beyond absurd.did mcviegh get 10k?
this kid was going to do this one way or the other.the fbi's involvement was a stroke of luck for us.
people who arent murderers dont just become such with a gift of 3k.

the fbi didnt probably do anything.aside from the first meeting with him, the fbi recorded everything else.up to and including repeated reminders by them, to this retard that you dont have to kill in order to be a good muslim.not a probably but a matter of record.

do you want to get blown up?
do you like civilians being murdered?
wtf?

You're ignoring the fact that the FBI is in the business of propping up people who they want to at least try and commit terrorism with cash, gifts and logisitical support.

Funding people that you think are terrorists is not stopping terrorism.

Besides the fact that entrapment is illegal.

How can you expect citizens to follow the law if the law enforcement doesn't follow the law.

Lawlessness breeds corruption and the FBI are engaged in illegal acts of entrapment.

Bottom line: If you as an FBI agent want to stop terrorism, don't concoct terrorist plots and encourage Muslim men to carry out the FBI terror plot.

you are confusing your abc agencies.
the cia's claim to shame is the amazingly pathetic track record in propping up people as a tactic.this is the cia's m.o.
the fbi does what ever they can think of to provide us with security.some times its asking questions.some times its pretending to be drug dealers/buyers.and being as terrorists have been a tad active as of late, they even pose themselves to be terrorists, to bait them it.just like they do with every other front on wich they fight.

if terrorists didnt give money for the service of blowing infidels up, the fbi would have no call to.but terrorism is big business, and jihadis are provided for by thier controlers.unless you imagine some where in the middle east the taliban is turning away recruites cuz they dont have an ak? like they arent going to provide them with one, or anything else he needs?
you have quite the low opinion of arabs, if you are under the impression they are all rolling with ak's, just waiting for the pay off.

so tell me, if buying some one off is how this is done, what is your price?
you clearly see this as a reasonable thing, being simply paid as a reason to why a killer kills.
whats your price that has to be met, in order for you to kill innocent civilians,men woman and children?
i guess we are arguing cuz i dont have a price to do that, so i fail to see the logic in it.
and before you start, no amount of money is gunna have me take my glock to anyone.not the christian retards who knock on my door, or my persian nieghbors, or palestinians.im not even compelled in the slightest to kill skinheads, as i pity not hate them.
please explain how this payment to kill thing works, i just dont understand how its ok?

Sure, go after me. I'm not the one who gave the "terrorist" $3000 for his own apartment and the means and support to build a bomb.

You would think that if the FBI really did want to stop terrorism that they would go around giving terrorists $3000 for their own apartment.

More from the article:

Having prevented him from working, the money the FBI then pumped him with -- including almost $3,000 in cash for him to rent his own apartment (para. 61) -- surely helped make him receptive to their suggestions and influence. And every other step taken to perpetrate this plot -- from planning its placement to assembling the materials to constructing the bomb -- was all done at the FBI's behest and with its indispensable support and direction.

Is it possible that the FBI pumped him with $3,000 and more because they hoped he might be able to give them more leads on other terrorist branches or terrorist activities not tied directly to the boy?

I if you read the article, you may conclude that it's a slim to none possibility of the FBI going with the small fish leads to big fish method.

The FBI had no evidence that he was a terrorist before they gave him the money, aside from Mohamud writing a few articles for a magazine for Muslim causes, which put him on the no-fly list.

Mohamud was allegedly on his way to Alaska for a fishing job, but was denied from flying.

The FBI had been monitoring this guy for years, including his e-mails, so they would have obviously known anyone that he had been associating with.

I think I'd feel a lot safer if the FBI were taking care of the violent drug gangs operating in border towns instead of coddling, giving $3000 to Muslim men with names that sound like "Osama bin Laden" and then entrapping them.

nice to see you are pro terror, not prevent terror.

being as terrorists have thier expenses paid for by thier operaters, to not follow in kind would have blown the illusion of commitment the fbi required in order to appear as fellow jihadis.

so by your reasoning, mercenary actions are the acceptable means by wich the unemployed can put food on the table? all the detroit auto workers should have just become terrorists huh?
when unable to find work, instead of working off the books, or at mcdonalds, or going to school, we can just become jihadists? this is a reasonable methodology to you?

ya know, my offense at your rantings about jews was what had always caused my commentary.but now you are just being offensive to muslims, even more so than the wacko right.
at least they give muslims the credit of being availed of free will, as human beings.they dont degrade muslims to a group of people unable to resist encouragement to kill.they at least hold terrorists acountable for what they do, as is how ya treat a human being.
not playing them as if they are animals, and thier behavior cant be helped.

the fbi knocks on your door, hands you a suitcase of cash (3k) and tell you they would really like you to take this bomb, and blow up a bunch of civilians.
what do you do?
you blow up civilians?
im just asking, cuz it seems as though my notion that the obvious answer is no, may not be shared.

i mean id go to the papers personally.id be up both oriely and olbermans ass's with this news.
so i dont understand how anything negates or validates this kids actions.

Why does the FBI need to create fake terror plots to stop terrorism?

Ok I'm done with this conversation.

Fine you agree with former NY Mayor Ed Koch that the illegal practice of entrapment of Muslims (not Jews of course, like the ones who were actually arrested on 9/11) and that the FBI should go around organizing terror plots to stop terrorism.

when terrorists start getting picked up during drug busts, or other crimes law enforcement is already actively policing, the fbi wont need to create fake terror plots.but until terrorists start wearing uniforms or declaring thier intent, fake terror plots are what bait in, those looking for real terror plots to execute.

and ya know what, even if terrorists did declare thier intent, or wear a standard uniform, we would all bitch that ya cant arrest people for what they wear, or for crimes they didnt commit yet, but declared they would in the future.
a guy can go on national television and state "im going to blow up a federal building" and cant be imprisoned, as he committed no crime to be guilty of.he will be tailed, monitered,watched,and basicaly inspected, but not taken off the streets.

this is the only way to remove the element that is going to kill the rest of us.think of a better way to figure out, amongst the 350 million of us, wich ones are going to go jihadi?
like i said, let me know that better, more effective method, and ill advocate that.
but as it is, the method we used on organized crime, drug cartels, and any clique based threat is all we can do.imbedd in thier world, gather intel, and prosecute.