Star of David is on the Israeli flag as well...religious or political, or both?

how does it work on the turkish flag?
are they a theocracy or a secular state?

the star of david represents the jewish people, ethnicaly and religiously.if they had a country over the last how ever many centuries, im sure they may have had a flag like many other nations do, free of any religious symbolism.but as they did not, the star of david has been the symbol of both the religion and the people.it works in what ever way you want it too, just like the cresent moon on the turkish flag, or the cross's on european christian flags.

the star of david has no political agenda associated with it, and serves only to represent either the culture or religion when used.if it did have a political agenda with in it, zionism wouldnt exist would it.it would just be judaism.but it does exist, outside of judaism, as judaism has no politics.certainly no contemperary politics.

So then the Star of David on the octopus on strangling the White House represents both religious domination as with Chabad Lubbavitcher's influence with their White House menorah, and political domination, as with lobbying groups like AIPAC and the ADL.

This is neither confusing, complicated or antisemitic, it's just how it is.

once again you are missing the point (quite intentionaly by this point, unless you are retarded) that the star of david represents the ENTIRETY of judaism, not just the lubbavitch, or any jewish related lobbying group or the adl.
the octopuss could have on it the chabad logo, or the aipac logo, or the adl logo, or any combination of the three.by placing the star of david on it you arent depicting those three groups but all of judaism, wich thes groups hardly represent.

a picture of an octopuss witht he chabad logo strangling the capital, shows chabad strangling us.what you have chosen to show is the star of david, thus claiming that it is judaism that is doing this, wich is hate speech, as it is antisemitic.

remember the issue with the other antisemitic picture you posted about the zionist threat to america? it was the star of david (yet again) wich you fail to understand represents jews.when you use it negatively, you are making negative overtures pertaining to jews.not zionists, or the lubbavitch,or aipac,or the adl,or any other group you feel is a threat, but every single jew on the planet, as that is our symbol.

either you have zero concern for the content you post, or you are straight up posting antisemitic stuff.this isnt a false label, or branding, it is what you are doing.

once again, just as if i were to show acts of jihad with the crescent moon.same thing.
crystalman does this, and you call it hate speech.you do it and it some how isnt.
you claim time and time again that you havent an issue, just with zionism.yet you repeatedly default to jewish iconagraphy, not christian, despite global zionism being predominantly christian.
your intent is clear, just have the balls to admit it.

as it is, neo-nazi skinheads are more upright citiezns than you.at least they dont pretend what they are about.have the courage of your convictions.

The "Z" on top of the Star of David denotes the political and ethnocentric nature of the issues.

You are the one who is making this a strictly religious issue, thus attempting to tie it to "antisemitsm."

If you read the website of the artist David Dees, you will see that he contends that his artwork is strictly portraying the issues in a nature than is political rather than religious.

A disclaimer on the Star of David by David Dees:

In my art, you will occasionally see a 'Z' symbol over a star of David. This simply represents the political movement called Zionism which has co-opted Judaism and uses it as a shield to hide behind. I and rense.com are PRO-Jewish, but extremely ANTI-Zionist.

Those who attempt to smear my art as 'anti-semitic' are fools and frauds. The unspeakable, hideous genocidal acts of Zionism and the geopolitical social and economic deception and deceit it uses to con and dupe the masses shall be exposed. I also support organizations like Jews Against Zionism as you can see in my archives. If you have any sincere questions about Zionism and related issues, by all means read the material at any Jews Against Zionism internet site and the archives at rense.com. TRUTH does NOT fear investigation and research. - David Dees

***

So like I said, you can call me an anti-semtie if you want, but your arguments are rather weak when you actually look at the facts.

The Star of David was not originally a Jewish religious symbol, but just like the term "holocaust" some Jews have come to trademark it as their own.

From a Jewish website:

http://www.jewishgiftplace.com/Jewish-Star-of-David.html

Origin of The Star of David

The Star of David, a symbol first seen in writing in a 12th century work, has become associated with the Jewish people and their sanctuaries. The symbol only became heavily associated with Judaism when it was chosen as the emblem for the Zionist movement in 1897.

Here's another:

http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/starofdavid.htm

Star of David Symbol

The six-pointed star made up of two triangles that are superimposed on each other is known as the Star of David symbol. It is also called "Magen David", meaning 'shield of David' in Hebrew, by the people of Judaism. It does not have any religious significance and is associated with the Jews, who wear the star as a part of their jewelry design. The blue Star of David symbol is the part of the flag design of Israel and is a symbol of unity.

Star of David Meaning

The origins of Star of David are kind of vague. It was also used by Christians and Muslims at some point of time. It is associated with King Solomon more often than King David. The Star of David had never been mentioned in the rabbinic literature till the middle ages. After the middle ages, a deeper spirituality meaning was associated with the star by Kabbalists.

The Magen David was first used as a Jewish symbol in Prague, Czechoslovakia, in 1354. Jews were given the right to have a flag, by Emperor Charles IV. The people chose the double triangle star, as their symbol. When the Emperor was welcomed to the city in 1500s, they displayed the star on their banners.

The "Z" on top of the Star of David denotes the political and ethnocentric nature of the issues.

in your world perhaps, but not to the rest of us.to the rest of us "z" is just a letter, with many many words it can represent.the star of david has one recognize emblematic meaning.wanna post a thread asking current members what the letter z means to them, and see how many come back zionist? bet ya its a third tops.with zorro being a majority, or zztop.

what symbol was it that is on the israeli flag again?
what symbol was it that jews were forced to where under nazis?
is it the star of mohamed, christ, or david?

if z represents zionism, then you neednt the star at all so you?just a z right? cuz it is about zionism, not judaism?

"You are the one who is making this a strictly religious issue, thus attempting to tie it to "antisemitsm."

nope, the universely recognized symbol of judaism (star of david) makes it implicit.it would be subtle antisemitism with out it, as the octupuss's tentacles have only organizations that are associated with judaism, but the star makes it pretty clear.this isnt really a grey area, especialy if it was about zionism the tentacles would read, evangelicals and so on, not jewish related entities alone.fuck the adl arent even zionist in nature, and the jdl doesnt really exist anymore.

david dees can contend what ever he likes, but it doesnt change it.crystalman can contend his postings are political and not racist, but it doesnt make it so.if it is political, you dont use religious symbols, as religion has no politics inherent to it.(unless you think god endorses a party?)
by using religious symbols he makes it religious in nature, either promoting or demonizing.not my personal rules, but a defacto state of affairs.

hasnt david dees been accused of this like a zillion times?
i hate to be the one to break it to ya, but propagandists dont tend to accept that thier work is such.it negates the effect they are going for if it is openly known as pointed, especialy when trying to stir hatred.when an antisemite creates an effort to promote hatred, they dont offer a heads up.mien kampf didnt come with a disclaimer, it is presented as "political commentary".
klan literature doesnt come with an antisemite label on it, it is "political commentary"
neo nazis dont put out literature that tells ya it is antisemitic, cuz then you know where it is going, and you dont open your mind to it knowing it is hate speech.
dees has been fighting this charge, just as all antisemites do, in the hopes of having thier agenda validated.
his statement doesnt make it not antisemitic, anymore than oriely just "stating facts" on the view supposedly wasnt hate speech.oriely demonized the entirety of islam, and this pic does that to jews.not really a matter of question

icon history is always shady, but trying to state that the star of david isnt jewish is beyond the pale, even for you.
you even contradicted your own bullshit, in claiming the star of david became a jewish symbol in 1897 as a result of zionism.
then also claim it was used as a jewish symbol centuries before.

the star of david is found in archialogical digs(jerusalem) dating back to the time of jesus, as well as the ethiopian jews using it despite being seperated from the rest of global jewry for almost 2 thousand years.

all of this is pointless, as it really doesnt matter cuz no one is discussing wether or not the star of david was a symbol of judaism in the 1300's or before or after, but today.it with out a doubt is, and nothing you can pull off of what ever site you like changes that.

do a public service, and make a point to tell all the jews you encounter who are wearing the star of david on a necklace that it isnt thier symbol.see how that goes.

I didn't say it wasn't religious, I said it was religious as well as political as opposed to specifically religious as you contend. I used that source to show that it didn't become widely used as in a political propaganda purpose until the ***drumroll*** the founding of Zionism.

If you want it both ways then you are going to have to accept it both ways.

its not a matter of what i want, but what it is.
the star of david you claim is a zionist creation, as well as a nonzionist creation.
the reality is that is represent the jewish people and religion, and has NO political agenda attached as jews as a people have no singular political agenda.just like any other religion we hold all political views through out our ranks.(this is like 3rd common sense stuff here)

the star of david was used as a symbol by zionists, as only jews were zionist then.just as any number of other jewish culture items also have the star of david on them.not because shlomos challah bread invented the symbol, but it represents the culture to wich it appeals.
its like saying cuz ford f-150's come with american flag license plates, the stars and stripes werent a recognized symbol of america until ford used it.

a quick history lesson with almost no depth.
how many people were literate in the late 1800's?
were symbols not used in lue of the written word?(unless you think the skull and crossbones doesnt represent poison to that end)
anything jewish, up to and includng would of course be accompanied by the star of david, as that is how peasents knew it was about them.

my great grandmother(born 1900) came here from russia where she was an illiterate peasent girl.and i assure you the star of david represented judaism, not zionism as she came here, not to israel.

the star of david (judaism) gave birth to zionism, not the other way around.

anytime one uses the crescent moon with the star, a crucefix,orthe star of david, it is representive of a religion.not a question.

from your post:
The symbol only became heavily associated with Judaism when it was chosen as the emblem for the Zionist movement in 1897.

and

The Magen David was first used as a Jewish symbol in Prague, Czechoslovakia, in 1354.

all you, not any spin from me.

For what it's worth, I don't think that Saudi Arabia makes any pretense of having any kind of freedom of religion. They are well known for having a brutal oppressive society, even towards its own citizens.

Israel on the other hand pretends to have a free and democratic society and pretends to uphold Western values. It's clearly not the case. It can be argued that Israel is as much a theocracy as Iran or Saudi Arabia.

But the real difference here is that we don't have the influence of Saudis in our country as we do Israeli. You may be able to point to a few Saudis in the corporate world and on Wall Street, maybe one in a position of media ownership, but nowhere near the influence that the Israelis have, especially in our government.

it isnt about what they do, but how we use what they do.
the refusal to allow non-muslims to mecca isnt hate based.it is a matter of honoring holy land.no matter how many times people use the fact, that non muslims arent allowed at mecca as a negative, it doesnt change the fact that it is not.
the same applies to israel, wich is a free country despite adhering to religious crap like holy sites.
just like the mormons arent racist cuz we all arent allowed in thier great temple in utah.
just like how in certain church's some people arent allowed past a certain point in the sanctuary.

its basic religious observance, not an example of inequality.

it cant be argued that israel is as much a theocracy as iran or suadi arabia, cuz they follow secular law, not torah.it is just that simple.shit, judaism has 613 laws clearly outlined unlike islam and christianity.and israel is not guided by them.the law is like our law to insure muslim, christian,athiest or what ever can co-exist.

once again, your israeli influence thing is all speculation.you can claim the adl are some israeli thing, but they are an american creation.they no more represent israel's interest than the naacp represents african interest.its all your crazy conspiracy stuff, that changes with the day, depending on what information disproves it.

The limit and prohibiting of Palestinians not using certain roads is not just limited to religion, it is Israeli government policy.

Also, how many Saudis versus Israelis operating in the US government and lobbying?

"The limit and prohibiting of Palestinians not using certain roads is not just limited to religion, it is Israeli government policy."

right, but that is a huge element to the story that is over looked in favor of supporting a narrative designed to demonize israel.dont acknowledge religious reverence.dont acknowledge the constant threat of terrorism that israel lives under.dont acknowledge that one hundred percent of attacks from palestinians are done by civilians.dont acknowlwedge that we do the same thing to mexicans with even less cause to do so.
dont mention the inconvinient facts that show the reality that israel isnt that bad.make sure to cherry pick one sided positions to create a negative narrative, despite it not being an accurate representation.

i dont know how many saudis are lobbying our government versus israelis, but the thing is, in actuality i bet it is more.
cuz here is that damn antisemitism deal again.if we get into this line of discussion, you are going to start rattling off all sorts of organizations and names that back up your position.but they will be jewish, not israeli.you will substitude "jew" for "israeli" when it suites your needs, and then claim you arent making ntisemitic statements by using israel as code for jews.your just making governmental criticism, that some how relies on using any jews available to uphold your point.

what i do know is that we love the saudis.
we give them more slack than any other nation on the planet.we criticize china more for less human rights violations than the saudis are guilty of.bosnia,kosovo,rwanda,darfur, all conflict we can send a few troops, or have the united nations get involved in, but we dont take up for anyone.but when the saudis need us, we come running.

opec trumps aipac any day, in any way.

And she shouldn't be.

They got her job and she is almost 100 years old what is there for her to fear?

Yeah that Freedom of Religion is bull crap anyway.

Yeah, that's what American Indians learned about Christians, the hard way.

Islam is a religion of repression. I didn't say we should ban it or prevent those from practicing it, but it's a toxic religion and should not be embraced.

Exactly. Islam seeks to slaughter us just like the Christians slaughtered the Native Americans. You're SPOT-ON!

all religion shares that component.no religion preaches, "observe kinda faithfully", they require devotion.the sacrifice of self in the endevour of something greater.
at times judaism is massively oppressive(try living by the chasidim 613 rules)
at times christianity is oppressive (unless you fancy black and white puritan dress)
and islam is no different.
ya got your religious ocd's who pray so hard they bruise thier fore heads, as well as your busta rymes stoners.

out of curiosity, how is it that islam, as a religion, declared our destruction a thousand years before we existed?
i mean i cant seem to find that part of the quran, that speaks to america or the west.
either islam has nothing to do with attacking us, and certain muslims do.
or islam is the shit, as it is the only religion able to see a thousand years into the future.

OH I get it; you think I'm talking about terrorism...

I'm not. Islam is a piece-of-shit religion (just like all of them) and it shouldn't be welcomed. Islam, as a living machine, has one goal: to convert everyone.

That religion is one of the most repressive, and I will fight it tooth & nail. I think it's funny that since we're all "tolerant" or "politically correct" or "liberal," we're expected to never say anything bad about an entity like Islam.

ALL RELIGIONS ARE FUCKED UP, but I just so happen to despise Islam more than the rest. Closely following is Mor(m)onism.

Religion sucks. Religion sucks. Religion sucks.

the fucked up thing is, as long as you hate all religions, im good lol.

fyi, not that it matters, but judaism doesnt demand conversion, it actualy doesnt condone it.still a mess, just a point worth sharing.of its flaws, prostelytizing isnt one.

i would think scientology should be higher up than mormonism, but to each thier own.

Islam like "ALL" Religions can be used for good or bad ask David Koresh.

the new way to say jew with out getting called antisemitic.
cant say its a black nighborhood cuz its racist, say ethnic
cant say jews, just use zionist.

what the hell!! what is wrong with these people?

Look above there is a room full of 100's of Zionists and 99.9 of them are NOT Jewish.

Christian Zionist base their lunacy on Genesis 12:3, "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

The first half of this verse is a promise that God made to just one person, Abraham. The original Hebrew is in the second person singular, meaning that God is speaking only to Abraham. The King James Version correctly reflects this grammatical construction, since "thee" is singular, referring only to one person, whereas "ye" would refer to multiple persons.

Recently Genesis 12:3 has been interpreted by Christian Zionist preachers, to mean that this verse applies not just to Abraham, but also to Abraham’s descendants, specifically to the modern state of Israel founded in 1948. Supposedly, it means that evangelical Christians as individuals, and America as a nation, are bound to provide unquestioning support, financial and otherwise.

When it is pointed out that the various Arabs nations, including Palestine, are also descended from Abraham, the Christian Zionists say that the promise of Genesis 12"3 applies only to the descendants of Isaac. (Of course, there is no mention of Isaac in Genesis 12:3. They often misquote the verse, saying it refers to "blessing Israel," but Israel is not mentioned in the verse, either).

It should be pointed out that even in Old Testament times, when Israel was a nation specially chosen by, and ruled over by, God, He did not expect His people to support and endorse all actions of the government of Israel.

When the Government of Israel committed human rights violations, the prophets openly condemned them, 2 Kings 6:21 –23, 2 Chronicles 28:9-11, Nehemiah 5:7-11, Jeremiah 34:11-17, Amos 2:6-7, etc. Nowadays, liberal Jewish groups still protest human rights violations in Israel. Nevertheless, most fundamentalists Christians would never dream of doing such a thing – it is against their religion. It is their duty to either deny that such violations take place, or else to endorse and commend such violations. We have been told that God will smite us if we disagree with anything that Israel does.

Debating Christian Zionists is about like debating your average Tea Party supporter, in that you present them with FACTS and they crumble.

I don't have to use the word Zionist I'll use the word Jew when appropriate.

I don't care about being called an antisemite if that's all you can do to me for speaking the truth.

Why should there be a taboo against simply saying the word Jew? Hey watch this: Hollywood is run by Jews, and some of those Jews, like Steven Speilberg are Zionists. Its a provable fact and even influential Jews like Joel Stein of Time Magazine and the LA Times openly admit it, but if a non Jew actually says it then freecrack is going to call you an antisemite.

It's absurd.

yes, that is true.
and it would be super awesome if that were recognized so that it couldnt be used as it most commonly is.
just for shits and giggled, check out maasanova's profile, and see of the material he offers on the subject matter, if he shows zionism to be christian or jewish in nature?
that is what im talking about.as well as zionist being code for jew on hate sites like stormfront.and if you get into the really crazy shit they are called zog, but never recognize that the reality that christian's out number jews 3 to 1 in zionism.

you dont have to, but ya do.
thier is no taboo against saying the word jew, any more than thier is about saying christian or muslim.thier is how ever a thing in our culture about speaking responsibly.

you are splitting hairs, and making broad statements about me, to defend the broad statements you make about others.i dont care if you call some one out for being zionist.it is a political issue, not a religious one.i dont care if that zionist is jewish or not.you can go back and find never once did i ever defend any zionist, or zionist idealogy as if it were right.i think its stupid.

but when someone says some dumb shit like "jews run hollywood" im gunna call you an antisemite, as that is antisemitic speech.as if to pose the idea that our cultural center is manufactured by jewish idealogy, not representative of us as a country.to imply some trickery is going on with the information we are dealt is reasonable, to place it on the jews is absurd.not to mention it is literaly a play right out of hitlers playbook.it is literaly a libel(along with others) used by the nazi party that successfully resulted in turning the german citizenry on its jewish population.so yeah i feel compelled to call it out as it lays the sins of the collective at the feet of a predetermined few.

would it make sense for anyone to state that "the christians run the auto business"?
doesnt that sound odd, despite it being true? as if some accusation is being thrown at christianity?

Hitler Hitler Hitler, Nazi Nazi Nazi...yawn

yup.
dismiss one of the greatest tragedies in contemperary history.really unbias balanced perspective ya got there.

i guess no lessons exist to be learned from it.lets just ignore it so it can happen again.lets just call all muslims terrorists, build extermination camps, and get t over with then.lets follow the same flaws of the germans, instead of learning from them.

nothing to learn, just yawn.

unlike the majorly important and impactfull effect that zionism has on us.now that is important.despite nothing ever coming from the zionist boogeyman.

yup, cuz it is exclusive to islam too.
no one ever mocks jews and prtrays them as effeminate weaklings.no one ever plays indians or othert groups in a manor representative of thier cultural differences(check out outsourced its fucking racist).those poor demonized arabs, who's cultures are absolutely nothing like how they are shown.

hollywood is a business, and functions as such.if it sells, it is made.that is it.wether run by jews, or christians, or athiests.just like cars arent built with a christian agenda, hollywood movies arent made with a jewish agenda.

ya might want to check out the new series on tcm "movie moguls", wich adress's this very notion.

quite simply to claim the jews this, or the arabs that, is straight up racism, as the jews are all not one thing, nor are arabs.keep trying to pretend its different some how.

you depict jews in broad terms in the most negative ways, and its just true.
but depiction of the same towards arabs is racism.

God will smite them if they speak against the wrongdoings by Israel? What stupidity!!

just remember what side of the religious divide this is coming from, not the jewish side.

yeah the reporter was jewish himself

we created zionism, and still have many zionists.
but as zionism goes, the evangelics have ownership of the contemperary idealogy, and activities.
jewish zionism was to create a jewish state.
israel........check.
so we are pretty much done with it, but the christian crazies have adopted it to thier agenda, not ours.

active zionism is christian, as jewish zionism's goals have been acieved already.

and you take all the zionists in israel, plus all the jwish zionist in the entire world, and it doesnt amount to 10 percent of global zionism.granted it is difficult for jews to rate percentage points in any arena as jewish numbers are so few, but it doesnt change the reality that zionism is predominantly christian.

not to mention that all those zionist jews you are showing in the knessit arent exactly tied to anything aside from thier own parties activitities.just like democrats or republicans, just a party, not a n.w.o.

I thought you said that "we" were done with Christian Zionism.

i fucked up, as i used the "we" as in jews, wich could be seen as "we" americans.
point being jewish zionism is accomplished, and christian zionism is the active political entity

John Hagee is a tool. The power behind the Evangelical throne is in Israel.

lol
so zionism, or even better yet israeli government has more power over christians than jews?
i mean that is what you are saying no?