Community | January 06, 2011 | 120 comments

Is it an animal apocalypse? Here are the facts and theories about recent mass die-offs

source: http://prisonplanet.com

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bundlebear
THE recent spate of mass animal deaths around the world is sparking conspiracy theories and doomsday predictions on the web.
From the US to New Zealand, from Britain to Brazil, bizarre cases of birds, fish and crabs turning up dead en masse have been reported in the past two weeks and no one seems to know why.
Not that it’s stopping residents of the internet from having a red hot go.
One example is from conspiracy theorists Joseph Watson and Alex Jones of prisonplanet.com who blame it on "the government". According to the site authorities have “routinely engaged in secret testing of biological and electromagnetic weapons that have detrimentally impacted both humans and animals many times in the past.”
Others are blaming it on the New Madrid fault line in the southern US, although how this affects birds flying in the sky, we’re not too sure.


And let’s not even get started on the 2012 end of the world predictions.
Here at news.com.au we’ve sifted through the evidence and present some saner possible explanations so you can decide for yourself if this is the end of days, or just a freaky and gruesome coincidence.
Where: a 30km stretch of the Arkansas River near Ozark, about 200km northwest of Little Rock in the US.
What: 100,000 drum fish washed up along a 32km stretch between the Ozark dam and a bridge in Franklin County. Local authorities were alerted to the deaths last week and have since collected samples from the affected area.
How: Keith Stephens from the US Game and Fish Commission said fish kills happen every year, but the size of the latest one was unusual. He suggested some sort of disease was to blame.
"The fish kill only affected one species of fish," he told CNN.
"If it was from a pollutant, it would have affected all of the fish, not just drum fish."
Where: Beebe, a community of 5000, northeast of Little Rock.

What: New Year's revellers in a small town noticed something other than fireworks falling from the sky as up to 5000 red-winged blackbirds rained out of the darkness onto rooftops and footpaths and into fields.
One struck a woman walking her dog. Another hit a police cruiser.
Birds were "littering the streets, the yards, the driveways, everywhere," said Robby King, a county wildlife officer.
"It was hard to drive down the street in some places without running over them."
How: "They died from massive trauma," said Game and Fish Commission spokesman Keith Stephens, citing a report from the state poultry lab where the birds were examined.
Some speculated that a bout of bad weather was to blame. Others said one confused bird could have led the group in a fatal plunge. A few spooked schoolkids even guessed that the birds had committed mass suicide.
Beebe police captain Eddie Cullum said "For all the doomsdayers, that was definitely the end of the world."
Where: The second unexplained US mass bird death happened in Louisiana where carcasses littered a stretch of highway near Baton Rouge.
What: 500 birds were discovered dead in Pointe Coupee Parish.
How: Olivia Watkins of the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries said: ”We sent samples to a lab in Missouri and are waiting to get some results.”
The birds - a mixed flock of red-winged blackbirds, brown-headed cowbirds, grackles and starlings - may have hit a power line or vehicles in the dark, Louisiana's state wildlife veterinarian Jim LaCour said. Two dozen of them had head, neck, beak or back injuries.
Dan Cristol, a biology professor and co-founder of the Institute for Integrative Bird Behavior Studies at the College of William & Mary, said the Louisiana birds may have been ill or startled from their roost.
“They don't hit a power line for no reason,” he said.
Where: A snow-covered street in southern Sweden’s Falkoping,
What: About 100 jackdaw birds were found lying dead on the road, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reported.
How: Local veterinarian Robert ter Horst speculated that the birds had fallen from the sky after being frightened by fireworks set off late on Tuesday.
However, the cause of the jackdaws' deaths was disputed after a truck driver claimed he was responsible.
Christer Olofosson, a rescue services worker, said the truck driver claimed he saw about 70 live birds on the road on Tuesday, saying he ran over the lot of them and did not think it was a “big deal”. He later realised it had attracted attention, not only in the Swedish media, but also abroad.
Police told the newspaper the majority of the jackdaws involved were not "physically damaged," which would contradict the truck driver's account of events. Mystery.
Where: Kentucky, US
What: Kentucky wildlife officials say several hundred birds were found dead in the western part of the state. The grackles, red wing blackbirds, robins and starlings were found last week.
How: No reason has been discovered or given yet.

Where: Little Bay and Waikawau Bay, Coromandel Peninsula, New Zealand
What: A "carpet" of hundreds of dead, mostly eyeless, snapper washed up on several Coromandel Peninsula beaches on Tuesday, leaving people mystified.
Auckland resident James Hughes spotted the snapper floating close to shore after children rushed up to him and his friends holding some of the dead fish, the New Zealand Herald reported.
"We spoke to boaties coming in and they said there was a carpet of them floating in the water."
How: A Department of Conservation official told Mr Hughes fish in the Coromandel area were starving because of weather conditions.
"That's just completely untrue. This was something deliberate and it's just wrong," Mr Hughes said

Where: Thanet, Kent, England
What: 40,000 dead velvet swimming crabs, or “devil crabs” washed up on Thanet beaches. Tony Childs, Thanet Coast Project Manager, told the Daily Mail: “We had a crash in numbers last year and we hadn't expected such a large population.
“As happens with the circle of life in nature, we expect the crabs to be naturally dispersed from our shores very quickly by our local seagulls.”
How: The cold weather in Britain has been blamed for the deaths. "We are hopeful the crab population will soon recover," said Mr Childs.
The Daily Mail reported that the mass crab deaths made up 95 per cent of marine life affected by the cold snap.

Where: Chesapeake Bay, Maryland, US
What: The Baltimore Sun reported an estimated two million spot fish died and washed up on the shore. The dead fish are mostly adult spot, with some juvenile croakers.
How: State officials are investigating but suspect it was because of the near-record cold. Agency spokeswoman Dawn Stoltzfus said spot are susceptible to colder water, she said, and normally leave the upper bay by now. They were perhaps late getting out.

Where: Coast of Paranaguá, Brazil
What: At least 100 tonnes of sardine, croaker and catfish have washed up on beaches over the past week, Parana Online reported.
The President of the Federation of Fishermen's Colony of Parana, Edmir Manoel Ferreira, said at least 2800 fishermen depend on the daily seafood.
"We are experiencing a very sad situation on the coast," he said.
How: Authorities took samples to verify the reason for the deaths.
Biologists have explained the deaths could be because of a possible increase in the concentration of algae that produce toxins. This increase may lead to death in some species, such as sardines.
Water samples taken from the bay showed elevated levels of two species of toxic algae.

Where: Port Orange, Florida US
What: Hundreds of dead fish floated around the waterways near homes, WFTV reported, surrounded by swarms of pelicans and buzzards.
Kayakers on the creek told WFTV they'd seen fish around every bend and it appeared to be one of the most extensive kills they had seen.
How: ?


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/is-it-an-animal-apocalypse-here-are-the-facts-and-t...
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120 comments // Is it an animal apocalypse? Here are the facts and theories about recent mass die-offs

  • magyver68
  • crashbangnoises
    • 0
      crashbangnoises  

    • Huge oil spill will eventually kill birds and fish. Oil in the Gulf moves with currents and the currents don't just stay in one location. The water does evaporate and if it has oil in it then you get contaminated rain. Bam!

    • 1 year ago
  • crashbangnoises
  • Bahai144
    • -3
      Bahai144  

    • In the U.S. media they're actually saying: 1.That there's no connection at all between the dead fish and the dead birds. and 2.That it was fireworks that made the birds fly into buildings! The people who are at the front lines of putting out these asinine statements clearly think that the public is completely without intelligence and willing to swallow any absurd "explanation" if it's repeated incessantly for a time and attached to the lips of some so-called "experts". Hmmmm...could they be right about that?

      I've been saying, since I heard the first thing about the redwinged blackbirds and fish in Arkansas, that there are now toxic clouds not too far up that are gathering from all the burning and evaporation they encouraged to happen in the spill and getting more dense. I figured that just like their chemicals cause congealing of the oil in the water its also combined in the air for a gaseous congealing of sorts so now theres the same kinds of toxic clouds in the air that there were/are in the water. Then when it rains through those gas clouds it precipitates out and poisons the inland fresh water and some species are more immediately killed off than others. I've heard also that this is not just happening in the U.S.

      Of course this will be denied and possibly several such mindbendingly stupid explanations as "blunt trauma" and fireworks displays will be spat out by various "experts" until the corrupt, junk science establishment can come to a consensus about what idiotic party line they feel comfortable getting behind as their official pronouncement in an effort to provide culpable deniability for their corporate masters.

      16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

      16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

      16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

      16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

      16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

      (King James Bible, Revelation)

    • 1 year ago
  • jimbones2045
    • 0
      jimbones2045  

    • "They died from massive trauma,"
      "Two dozen of them had head, neck, beak or back injuries."

      Sounds like they ran into something. I don't know how that's possible seeing that they were up in the sky. So either they ran into a plane because they're a bunch of stupid birds, or, being the adapted creatures that they are, they ran into something they couldn't see.

      I'm not a big supporter of conspiracy theories but I speculate on everything that's too much for coincidence. So what if there was something in the sky that killed those birds? Maybe not alien life. Maybe government operatives testing out new military technology. Maybe it's the oil spill that has now evaporated into the air and then into the clouds and travelled around the globe and has begun killing wildlife. First the fish in the sea. Then the birds in the clouds. Next the people in between. Who knows?

      I think we should prepare for a mass extinction in the global population. Don't go out and build bomb shelters or stock up on supplies (like Y2K all over again), but instead try and live life as perfectly and as peacefully as you can. If this is the finale of mankind, lets go out in style.

    • 1 year ago
  • David_Foster
  • EmperorThan
  • TimesSquareChronicles
  • Vierotchka
  • ghostofamerica
  • bundlebear
  • ghostofamerica
  • sugarlilly
    • 0
      sugarlilly  

    • well it was only a matter of time before we polluted the air too much for some breeds of bird and the water too much for some schools of fish.

    • 1 year ago
  • bundlebear
    • +3
      bundlebear  
    • Image

    • (NEWSER) – Thousands of turtle doves have fallen dead or dying from the sky in the small town of Faenza in Italy, with some of them tragically caught in tree branches like "tiny Christmas balls." Many of the birds had a mysterious blue stain around their beaks, reports the Huffington Post quoting GeaPress That could be the result of poisoning or signs of hypoxia. Some birds were sent for lab testing, but it will likely be weeks before results are known.

      http://www.newser.com/story/109189/thousands-of-turtle-doves-drop-dead-in-italy....

    • 1 year ago
  • CarlosIsDown
  • jeffreyak
    • +1
      jeffreyak  

    • AGHGHGHHGH! I saw thousands of dead brim in a pond when I was a kid. It happens. We are more connected now so we hear of these events more than we are accustomed to. Population is massive compared to our not so distant past.

    • 1 year ago
  • mybologna
    • +2
      mybologna  

    • The sea is being overfished
      In some areas of the ocean there is more plastic than plankton
      Farming and human waste is dumped into the sea
      We remove mountains for coal
      Water sources are poluted from the extraction of:
      Natural gas, petroleum, uranium and heavy metals
      The forrests are clear cut and replaced with urban sprawl
      Pavement keeps growing while natural habital shrinks
      Toxic gases are constatly dumped in the atmosphere by:
      Power plants, factories, billions of gas and diesel engines big and small
      We keep making garbage that polutes and never decomposes
      Billions and billions of tons, day in and day out
      Use once throw away forever
      Ten Billion Humans by the end of the decade

      Why are you surprised at the mass death of any species?

    • 1 year ago
  • EmperorThan
  • Vierotchka
    • +5
      Vierotchka  

    • Fish and bird kills like these are not uncommon nor unnatural, they are usually due to extreme weather and temperature conditions and diseases (and of human-generated pollution, I'll grant you that), but normally they don't make it into the media. Now that the bird and fish kills in Arkansas have been sensationalized by the media, every other one, even the small ones, are being grabbed and sensationalized by the media because right now they sell well and earn the media a lot of money. Also, all the ones that occur far from human habitats go unnoticed. The fact that the human population has almost tripled since I was born means that much more land is inhabited by humans, which means that such natural phenomena are much more frequently witnessed and observed - the same goes for earthquakes, there are no more earthquakes every year now than there have been in the past.

    • 1 year ago
  • JanforGore
    • 0
      JanforGore  
    • Vierotchka:

      It's not the frequency but the cause now that is my concern. Climate deniers use that same excuse about floods and storms.They say "floods always happen here" trying to confuse the point that the severity and other forces involved making it more severe now is the focus. And I think now along with what we are seeing regarding bees, plant diversity, other species, our oceans, etc. that there may just be other factors involved. There is no disputing that environmentally we are at a tipping point. If anything, maybe this will heighten awareness in people regarding just what is being done to species on this planet by man in pushing the natural envelope.

    • 1 year ago
  • ploomis
  • keithponder
    • +2
      keithponder  
    • Image

    • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/06/dead-crabs-wash-ashore-by_n_805211.html
      Dead Crabs Wash Ashore By Thousands On England Beaches
      =========================================================As if thousands of dead birds falling from the sky and millions of fish turning up dead across the world in the last week weren't enough, the Thanet Coast in the UK is now littered with tens of thousands of dead crabs that have washed ashore.

      The events are likely unrelated, however, and the BBC notes that this is the third year in a row thousands of dead devil crabs, also known as velvet swimming crabs, have turned up on the coastline near Kent, England. It is estimated that 40,000 of the dead crabs have washed up on the beaches this year.

      According to LiveScience, experts believe cold weather is to blame for the massive crab deaths. Tests conducted in past years have turned up no results for disease or similar problems, leaving the cause an unexplained mystery, though hypothermia is conjectured.

      The news of thousands of dead crabs follows similar reports of immense wildlife deaths among birds and fish occurring around the world in the past week. Thousands of dead birds fell from the sky on New Year's Eve in Beebe, Arkansas, and experts believe fireworks are likely to blame. Days later, around 500 similar bird deaths were reported in Louisiana, around 300 miles south of the Arkansas incident. Wildlife officials believe the events to be unrelated, citing power lines as a likely culprit for the latter incident. Then over 50 birds turned up dead on a street in Sweden, and reports surfaced of hundreds of dead birds fallen from the sky in Kentucky discovered last week.

      Massive fish deaths were also reported across the world recently, with two million dead fish surfacing in Maryland's Chesapeake Bay and similar incidents in New Zealand and Brazil. Much speculation remains about many of the events, with officials believing anything from inclement weather to other environmental factors to be the cause, though official tests to investigate the matters are still underway.

    • 1 year ago
  • keithponder
    • +1
      keithponder  
    • Image

    • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/06/birds-dying-in-italy-thou_n_805541.html
      ==========================================================
      Birds Dying In Italy: Thousands Of Turtle Doves Fall Dead From Sky

      On Wednesday, GeaPress reported hundreds -- possibly thousands -- of dead and dying birds in Italy. Countless turtle doves were found scattered in the streets, in flower beds and hanging tragically from trees "like Christmas balls" in the town of Faenza. Many of the birds that fell dead from the sky were discovered with a mysterious blue stain in their beaks.

      In the past week, similar incidents of mass animal deaths have been reported across the world. Thousands of dead birds fell from the sky in Arkansas on New Year's Eve, and similar incidents were reported on different days in Louisiana, Kentucky and Sweden. Two million fish were discovered dead in Maryland, with other fish kills also reported in Brazil, New Zealand and Arkansas -- approximately 100 miles from the bird incident. 40,000 crabs washed up on England beaches in the past few days, as well.

      While the events are likely unrelated, most still remain a mystery. Officials suggest fireworks are likely responsible for many of the bird deaths and that unusually cold weather could be to blame for the strange mass deaths of fish and crabs.

      GeaPress suggests that the blue stains found in mouths of the dead and dying birds in Italy could be the result of poisoning or possibly signs of hypoxia. Both the local forest service and the WWF in Faenza have sent some of the dead birds for testing, though the results likely won't be available for at least a week.

      Visit GeaPress.org to see the shocking photos of the dead turtle doves

    • 1 year ago
  • JohnA
    • +3
      JohnA  

    • It's the BP oil spill. Migrating birds die in the south. Fish die in Arkansas. No shit, they just had a billion barrels of oil dumped on them. The oil spill in the gulf was a incredible destruction of ecosystem, we won't know the full effects yet for decades.

    • 1 year ago
  • PzLuvHappeniz
    • +2
      PzLuvHappeniz  
    • JohnA:

      thats what ive been thinking too, a lot of that oil "disappeared" my guess is that it migrated due to currents and is now fucking up ecosystems all over the place, but sweden seems like a stretch

    • 1 year ago
  • RojoGatto
  • Pollo_Loco_
    • +2
      Pollo_Loco_  

    • Alright guys, I know we have some varying opinions, but let's be respectful of Linda_Greene's faith, please. After all, praying can't hurt. Might as well cover all our bases when this stuff starts happening.

    • 1 year ago
  • Eddie_Miller
  • Vierotchka
    • -1
      Vierotchka  
    • Eddie_Miller:

      It states the facts and doesn't try to make money by jumping on the currently popular fear-mongering sensationalizing bad journalism band wagon. I have read quite a few such articles by qualified scientists these past two days, they confirm what I have long known.

    • 1 year ago
  • Aaron_Brutus
    • 0
      Aaron_Brutus  

    • Hosea-4:2-3
      There is cursing and broken faith, violent death and attacks on property, men are untrue in married life, houses are broken into, and there is blood touching blood.
      Because of this the land will be dry, and everyone living in it will be wasted away, with the beasts of the field and the birds of heaven; even the fishes of the sea will be taken away.

    • 1 year ago
  • wally60
  • indecisiveh
  • Vierotchka
  • danitassin
    • 0
      danitassin  

    • That pic looks like the fish that washed up on Folly Beach, SC. Our news says it was the cold. I think that's ridiculous. Sure does seem weird that all the news stations keep reporting these large animal die-offs as though it is the only one that's happened and it's a "rare circumstance". "It's the weird weather", they say. The weather is not weird here. It' has been a normal winter so far. Normal fire works on New Years Eve too.

    • 1 year ago
  • GISchmo
    • 0
      GISchmo  

    • My theory is that something is tainting their food supply. This could be cause by either a natural phenomenom or the act of some sick fanatics.

    • 1 year ago
  • JohnA
  • GISchmo
  • CalgarC
    • +5
      CalgarC  

    • its the fucking global warming!!! no conspiracy... we have been on the tipping point for quite a while, we sit on our ass and do nothing, yet when something liek this happens we blame aliens or the mayans...

    • 1 year ago
  • tverdell
  • coolplanet
    • +1
      coolplanet  
    • tverdell:

      Realism isn't doom.
      Doing nothing is the origin of doom.
      If we are doomed it is because we are doing nothing to fix the problem.
      At least Lovelock repeatedly states that he hopes he is wrong.
      Now THAT is optimism!

    • 1 year ago
  • EthicalVegan
  • crystalman
  • NeverTheSameColor
    • +3
      NeverTheSameColor  

    • COREXIT is known to liquify organs as well. Wonder if it was the shit ton of it we (cocksuckers BP and our GOVT. who turned the blind eye) poured into the gulf and it's jet currents that flow all around the world.

    • 1 year ago
  • NeverTheSameColor
  • EdJoyProductions
  • figgdimension
  • Sdizzle
  • floydyboy
  • figgdimension
    • 0
      figgdimension  

    • lots of solar activity flares and eruptions could be causing a change in our magnetic fields a similar thing may have happened on mars whatever the causes its not good not good at all!

    • 1 year ago
  • figgdimension
  • littlwarrior
    • +1
      littlwarrior  

    • If all of this is really just a coincidence there is a really bad year for wildlife. But I still think the whole bird thing might be the fault of some corporation, and the snappers with no eyes good chance some chemical did something there.

    • 1 year ago
  • device80
    • 0
      device80  

    • climate change ? but the snapper with no eyes one is pretty hard to explain, although that is where the "ufo battle" took place in the southern ocean.... odd...

    • 1 year ago
  • Daena_Smith
  • bailey78
  • hombre76
    • +3
      hombre76  

    • I Notice these are all bottom feeder fish types could be evidence of BP oil saturating the atlantic coasts ... the Newzealand ones the odd man out though

    • 1 year ago
  • Linda_Greene
  • DisownCashValue
  • littlwarrior
    • +4
      littlwarrior  
    • Linda_Greene:

      Cause god totally cares, like he cared about 6 million jews in ww2, or the the tutus in Rwanda or the thousands of starving children dying every day across the world, or the millions of aids victims in africa.

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • littlwarrior
  • antiutopia
  • littlwarrior
    • +6
      littlwarrior  
    • antiutopia:

      You see your argument is based in theology, what is sin who defines sin ect ect, I do not accept theology. I accept that there may be a god, I accept that he may be involved in our lives, but he may not be involved in anything at all. beyond that I find the whole god thing quite useless, he does not help us, he does not "guide" us. He saves us from nothing, but these supposed sins that I see no evidence he actually defined. If he is of no use to me then why would I keep him around. thats hoarding and thats a sin.

    • 1 year ago
  • Norther00
    • +3
      Norther00  
    • antiutopia:

      are u completely insane? what proof of any kind is there that god exists? if he did create us and this world he did a pretty fucking shitty job.. aids? genocide? children starving all over the world? tsunamis wiping out cities? earthquakes devastating poverty stricken cities like they didnt have it hard enough? cancer? sounds like quite the asshole if u ask me. just watches over as people suffer everyday? oh wait this is all a test right? to see if he lets us into heaven? quite the fucked up little game... give me a break, the whole christian religion sounds like quite the twisted fairy tale made up so people feel better about what happens after they die.

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • Prijedor
  • Prijedor
  • coxian_armada
    • +3
      coxian_armada  
    • antiutopia:

      We created AIDS?!?!?!?!What world are you stuck in bad deeds are done only by humans and God does only good? I am not questioning God but your claims are downright ridiculous. God is not morality, that is something humans develop because we are social animals. It does not automatically appear.

    • 1 year ago
  • themotivateddropout
    • +4
      themotivateddropout  
    • antiutopia:

      Free Will Does Not Excuse An Inactive God.

      So, we're supposed to blindly believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing god who doesn't stop things like rape and genocide because it's not fair to the rapists and murderers that thieves and liars walk the earth unpunished?
      I'm sorry, but I can't put stock into a god who sees jerking off, shoplifting, sexual assault, and mass genocide as the same crime. And by allowing the big crimes to continue, this god is insinuating that the crimes are equal. Period.
      More importantly, I think believing in this Christian god takes away some of the personal responsibility that we should have for our actions. We can always have faith that the events of our lives fit into God's plan/will, and we can always pray for forgiveness for our wrongdoings.
      One thing is certain: We were created.
      And if the Christian's are right about who did it, then He/She/It gave up on us a long time ago. This god is not to blame, but I will blame Him/Her/It for being such a damn distraction from real human problems.

      But I'm not against prayer. It sends out positive energy and makes you feel good, like mental masturbation. And like masturbation you're doing it for yourself (with someone else in mind, of course) but don't limit it as your only choice of action. Prayer is nice, but it doesn't accomplish anything (well, anything more than finding a four leaf clover or making a birthday wish).

      As my history tutor used to say: "Pray in one hand and shit in the other. Then tell me which filled up quicker."

      So pray away, Mrs. Linda Greene!
      Oh, and to Prijedor:

      And just because something good happened doesn't mean there is a god.
      Death does not equal murder and genocide. Even if one day every soul on the planet agreed to not kill another for any reason, people would still die everyday. Clearing up room on the planet doesn't excuse Adolf or Columbus.

    • 1 year ago
  • PzLuvHappeniz
    • +3
      PzLuvHappeniz  
    • antiutopia:

      if there really is a "god" or a sentient being that watches over the universe, she/he/it would have given up on us right around the time we started killing each other in her/his/its name

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • antiutopia
  • Vierotchka
  • themotivateddropout
    • +3
      themotivateddropout  
    • antiutopia:

      What an equally dumb assed retort. No where in my post did I insult you personally, dick head. How about you grow up and act accordingly. You're a pathetic excuse for a Christian.

      "historically, most Christians have not believed that."
      Prove that.

      Really? The Catholic Church makes a distinction between sins? No kidding. But there's always a distinction being shoved down my throat between Catholics and Non-Catholics (by non-Catholics), and I'm not talking about Catholicism. If I was, my post would've been much more sarcastic.
      I know what your point was, chump, and it wasn't worth repeating. My point is that we would still know death even god prevented mass murder, because we kill animals to eat and people die everyday. If other sins went unpunished, including murder, but genocide was a sin worth smiting off the planet, we wouldn't wonder why god allows existing sins.
      Oh, and, no one here is wondering. We know what generic response we'd get from a devout believer, and you vomited it all over this board: Free Will.
      God's "get out of jail free" card. It doesn't matter what happens in our life because it's God's plan and he gave us free will. God doesn't ever have to intervene, despite the fact that he's able to, because he gave us the CHOICE to stick 1 million people in an oven and burn them alive. And we should be grateful.
      Besides, let's say god did kill all those who committed genocide, starting today. Right now. What would be the downside? The lack of "free will"? I'd give up free will to stop the genocide in Africa. Maybe God is the coward.

      And what does an overly aggressive Christian like you know about the consequences of free will? What has your "courage" and "intelligence" done to help you accept the consequences?

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • Norther00
    • +1
      Norther00  
    • antiutopia:

      yes im well aware there are more horrors than the ones i listed...not sure how that helps your argument... but whatever, i was simply listing a few. so why would god create us and throw us in this hell and watch us suffer and see if we fuck up too much so he can at the end of this twisted gauntlet tell us if we get to go up to heaven and hang out in this paradise u call "heaven" (wherever that is)..why wouldn't it just create everyone and put us in a place without evil, disease, natural disasters,rapists, murderers etc? to see if we make it to the end and meet his standards and expectations? screw that. none of it makes sense... its about as believable as santa clause, the easter bunny and sponge bob. religions are just about as bad as the rest of the corporations out there and all make about the same money ironically. it seems to much like a scam to me. first of all the bible sounds alot like a fairy tale... adam was molded from dust? eve made from adams rib?!?!? what the hell? u believe this? noah builds a gigantic ship and puts two of every animal on it? moses wanders through the desert for 40 years? talks to a burning bush(hallucination anyone?) kicks lucifer out of his tree house club because he said he was better looking(someones a little conceded?) just the whole thing sounds ridiculous, oh ya and even if your poor u need to tithe give 10 percent of your money to the church! im sorry but if there is a god i dont think he cares about your money but the church does oh ya they would love to take your money! dont tell me u have to meet at a gigantic nice church in order to talk about god, its a fucking huge scam! and its just a coincidence that your pastor drives a range rover...

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • Norther00
    • +2
      Norther00  
    • antiutopia:

      well im not raging against god, i dont believe he has anything to do with it, because it doesnt exist. oh yes thats right god made adam and eve perfect in his image, but then a talking snake tempted them to eat a forbidden apple! so that was enough for him to curse his own creation! u ate my apple!!! you are damned to sin!!!! (sounds like someone had some glitches during beta?)

      so it was being metaphorical? left it open to interpretation did it? interesting... so how is a great flood mean an allegory for salvation, and what does that have to do with putting two of every animal so life can continue after the flood waters recede? and the other believes its a little of both.... very interesting.. its funny how people rationalize things so they feel more comfortable about what happens after they die. the Christian religion sounds more and more scattered as the years go on. and now could u explain the adam being made from dust and eve from his rib? and tithing?

    • 1 year ago
  • coxian_armada
    • +2
      coxian_armada  
    • antiutopia:

      No we did not know AIDS in its current form back then, it is a mutated virus. It has been there from the 19th century itself. Don't start blabbering shit yourself. So if a human does good its god whose doing it? Shove your bullcrap somewhere else. Humans actions affects everyone, it depends on how they perceive it.

    • 1 year ago
  • coxian_armada
  • coxian_armada
  • coxian_armada
    • +1
      coxian_armada  
    • antiutopia:

      We are a perfect creation? Do you even know how a human body functions? Can you even define a vague term like "perfect" which everyone can accept? If humans are "perfect" as you say, were we so dumb to choose a life full of death, diseases, misery? Stop dreaming, you will never find the Garden of Eden even after you die. Earth is your heaven and hell, you should choose to do good because you want to, not because doing good will get you a free pass to heaven.

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • antiutopia
  • antiutopia
  • antiutopia
  • EdJoyProductions
    • +2
      EdJoyProductions  
    • antiutopia:

      It matters because laws and practices that are based on religious belief are pushed upon people that do not believe mythology. If individual beliefs were simply individual belief, it would be one thing, but sanctioning prejudice, sexism and the violation of other people's human rights based on religion is the problem.

    • 1 year ago
  • Vierotchka
  • antiutopia
  • Vierotchka
    • +2
      Vierotchka  
    • antiutopia:

      Retroviruses are prone to mutation. For this reason, viruses in this family often become resistant to antiviral drugs within a relatively short period of time. This level of mutability is one of the reasons cited for the difficulty scientists face in trying to develop a safe and effective HIV vaccine.

      http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-retroviruses.htm

      ______________________________________________________________

      Genome size varies greatly between species. The smallest viral genomes – the ssDNA circoviruses, family Circoviridae – code for only two proteins and have a genome size of only 2 kilobases; the largest – mimiviruses – have genome sizes of over 1.2 megabases and code for over one thousand proteins.[80] RNA viruses generally have smaller genome sizes than DNA viruses because of a higher error-rate when replicating, and have a maximum upper size limit.[81] Beyond this limit, errors in the genome when replicating render the virus useless or uncompetitive. To compensate for this, RNA viruses often have segmented genomes – the genome is split into smaller molecules – thus reducing the chance that an error in a single-component genome will incapacitate the entire genome. In contrast, DNA viruses generally have larger genomes because of the high fidelity of their replication enzymes.[82] Single-strand DNA viruses are an exception to this rule, however, as mutation rates for these genomes can approach the extreme of the ssRNA virus case.[83]

      Viruses undergo genetic change by several mechanisms. These include a process called genetic drift where individual bases in the DNA or RNA mutate to other bases. Most of these point mutations are "silent" – they do not change the protein that the gene encodes – but others can confer evolutionary advantages such as resistance to antiviral drugs.[84] Antigenic shift occurs when there is a major change in the genome of the virus. This can be a result of recombination or reassortment. When this happens with influenza viruses, pandemics might result.[85] RNA viruses often exist as quasispecies or swarms of viruses of the same species but with slightly different genome nucleoside sequences. Such quasispecies are a prime target for natural selection.[86]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus#Genetic_change

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • Vierotchka
    • +3
      Vierotchka  
    • antiutopia:

      All you asked for was what caused it to change. It is the nature of that virus, as is that of influenza and of the common cold.

      I've been keeping up with the whole HIV virus subject since 1981 when I read a very short article in the newspaper about a strange new illness that arose in the Gay community in the USA. It was a one-inch long column, and I intuitively felt it was of major portent, and I cut it out and kept it for years. As my brother had worked in the WHO for years, I personally knew (and still know) a great many doctors there, and got a lot of information from them. I also read all the papers I could find on that subject, and when the Internet arose, I used it to get more information on that subject.

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • Vierotchka
    • +3
      Vierotchka  
    • antiutopia:

      The article you linked to has been altered 500 times since March or April 2009 (previous alterations are not logged, probably for lack of space), by dozens and dozens of different people, which makes it totally unreliable and takes away most of its credibility. This is the case with all controversial subjects on Wikipedia which is why Wikipedia is not a credible source with regard to controversial subjects because people with diverse agendas tamper with these articles.

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • Vierotchka
    • +3
      Vierotchka  
    • antiutopia:

      I only cut out one article, the short one back in 1981 about a new disease that has hit the Gay community in the US - so please do not distort my words by saying "I know it hardly compares to the newspaper articles you've been cutting out for the last thirty years." - your doing so only heavily underscores your total lack of intellectual honesty and points out the fact that anything you may post is to be wholly disregarded and discarded as worthless, at best.

    • 1 year ago
  • littlwarrior
    • +1
      littlwarrior  
    • antiutopia:

      I never said that I blame god I simply don't ink that he cares in the slightest about what we do to ourselves and there is no doubt that we are doing this to ourselves can u say global warming. I accept that he may exist but i have never seen any evidence to either prove or disprove prove his/her existence. However there is more than ample evidence that if there is some all powerful being that being cares very little for the lives of humans. I never said there is no morality, however there is no morality in existence that has any solid evidence to say it was created by any god there are however thousands of codes of morality that have been created by man. We make right and wrong some simply use god as and omniscient means to enforce theirncodes of morality.

    • 1 year ago
  • antiutopia
  • antiutopia
  • littlwarrior
    • +1
      littlwarrior  
    • antiutopia:

      So then you to blame god because he could have stopped all this if he really was all powerful. I am not here to argue over the benefits of of morality systems, what I an saying is that all of this talk about god is pointless and ridiculous. To ask god for help is simply foolish because he will not help he never has and he never will. We need to address what we can do to resolve our own issues because whether the is a god or not he will not be the one to save us.

    • 1 year ago
  • littlwarrior
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