Why Conservatives Value the Second Amendment

The only BS is what you write here, outdated and out of touch. Not one iota of what I wrote was BS Facts every last one The simple majority of NRA members are blue collar conservative sportsman and hunters, with their fat asses hangin out, swillin booze in the woods while they wait to shoot Bambi. There are over 190 million guns not 129 million U quoted from years back. The KKK was declared a terrorist organization and One year later the American rifle association was born to change to the NRA by old confederates in NYC So whats your beef? Can't take the truth? Don't like being associated with lynching white guys who also thought nothing of killing a white who helped blacks?
Defending the most dangerous organization in America, the NRA? I'm not blind deaf or dumb and I can see you the average NRA member is and how they are manipulated with myths and lies. So stick you shit where the sun don't shine, because you my friend are no friend of a true democratic republic like the Tea Party Activists like to claim they are.
Just woefully stupid people led by the likes of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck all multimillionairre regular Joes just like you. Yea right . If u wann a debate someone your own speed best to pick an alzhiemers patient

You are sorely mistaken if you believe the NRA poses more of a threat to America than AIPAC! I belong to BOTH the NRA & the ACLU. I do not agree with either totally, but their core missions are BOTH important in my opinion.

your a proven follower, not a leader, I rip all of them new assholes because they are all run by assholes be the the NRA or th ACLU I show no bias in ripping into any organization who puts themselves first. The ACLU closed down hundreds of mental hospitals in the 1970's to free the mentally ill from quote unquote inhumane conditions, now those mentally ill have very little choices or places to go for treatment, so they are on the streets and committing crimes ending up in prisons where they do not belong.
Social problems are are shared by all the self interest organizations. So I will continue to expose and rip all who are guilty outright or by association

+^d

You are so wrong it is not even funny.

"Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner, Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote". Ben Franklen

The intent of the Second Amendment was to protect individuals from government powers. it was meant as a guarantee to the individual state governments as well as the American citizens that the Federal government would not try to take away the freedoms which many of them had so recently fought for. Senator William Grayson wrote to Patrick Henry; "Last Monday, a string of amendments were presented to the lower House; these altogether respected personal liberty…"

"To preserve Liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, and member of the first Continental Congress, which passed the Bill of Rights)

No one suggested that idea. It's a fear the right likes to plant in peoples head.

That's the de jour reality anyway.

Most people don't own guns. If they do, they almost never get the opportunity to use them against criminals.

Sure, there are isolated cases where people are saved because they owned a gun and could defend themselves. But it's silly to pretend like a population packing heat is safer than one that doesn't.

The founding fathers were............terrorists. But let us not rush to judgment today or too quickly. At least not until after the Super Bowell. Where did my remote go to?

i love your humor =]

you GO warrior ! RAH ! +^d !

You would need tanks and stinger missiles to have a chance against the government.

its called guerrilla war fare, if the Vietnamese and Taliban can do it, sure as hell I can do it. Its not about taking them on but rather being the thorn that cannot be removed. With time nothing can defy the mob. And lets face facts if I really wanted those things there are ways to get them.

Those people died by the millions. 2 million dead in Afghanistan because of the Russian invasion and 2 million dead (or more) in Vietnam because of us.

Americans would not die by the millions to fix their government.

Guerrilla tactics rely on the cooperation of the local populace. If guerrillas can take refuge among the people and the people support them, then no military campaign save genocide will defeat them.

So you are that good of a shot?

fair 'nuff ! +^d

You can't buy "assault weapons" over the counter anywhere in this country. They are subject to a Federal Form 4, fingerprint check by ATF, an approval letter from the Chief Law Enforcement Official in the area in which the applicant to own them lives. Automatic weapons are very tightly controlled and registered. It has been like this since 1934.
Handguns are and should remain free of such restrictions.

Because it's SO much easier to murder groups of peole with handguns, isn't it?
So small and concealable, you can carry more amunition, they're easy to hold, aim and fire in close quarters and just ideal for enclosed spaces like buldings!
Truly the pschypath's weapon of choice.

So, when were you diagnosed?

"So small and concealable, you can carry more amunition, they're easy to hold, aim and fire in close quarters and just ideal for enclosed spaces like buldings! "
Handguns huh.....obviously you have never fired an MP5PDW or a Mini Uzi. Actually a person who is competent with ANY weapon is a great danger in close quarters or buildings. A good revolver person would would be a large problem and perish the thought that someone would abandon one of those Tupperware guns and use, instead, a 100 year old platform such as a 1911.
I think your fear of inanimate objects borders on the pathological. Freud would be profoundly interested in you. Might I suggest a modification of your medications, assuming you have been compliant with them.
Happy Friday.

Obviously you've not much idea of what you're talking about
Sub-machine guns are not very controllable. They'll spray out bursts and use up all the rounds, wounding and killing yes, but just as much in the furniture. ;)

Your handguns are far more concealable, lighter, and the psychos who attack people with them aim for the head each time with perfect ease, because they're designed for just that sort of thing.

I'm sorry if this discussion has given you an erection, that was not my intention and you should probably get some help.

You're pretty funny. Actually I prefer the MP5 over the Uzi. The H&K, as a closed bolt gun, is much easier to hit and keep on target than the Uzi which is an open bolt gun. Both platforms are controllable enough to fire 3-6 round bursts in full auto without the 3 round only capability. Actually the MAC11 in 380 which is a much faster cyclic rate can be fired in this manner. Five rounds per target in three targets with 15 rounds only in the magazine. If you stand correctly and know your weapon your first sentence is incorrect.
Firearms are tools. Tools don't give me an erection. What may give you one is up to you and I really don't want to hear about it. I can only assume you are trying to bait me. I understand you are a master at it.

gun show loop-hole my friend

Does not exist. The current laws that prohibit ownership/possession of a firearm apply whether the gun is from a dealer or private individual. Felons can not even, legally, be around them. This imaginary "loophole" is used to describe anything that does not "infringe" which is what 2A prohibits. Gun control is a solution to a problem that does not exist.

That's not true. Felons have full access at gun shows.

It's not really fear of government, people are more scared of each other.
When gun nuts blather about amendments and rights it's more about rehtotic and tradition.

I am not "afraid" of the American government because it IS THE GOVERNMENT,...I have grave reservations concerning the benevolence of AMERICANS ! ( of which the government is at least hypothetically composed. )

Hey,....I HAVE been "employed" over here,....I KNOW the types of folks in management....
.....and who walk down the street to the march of "money, money, money, money, money,...

Personally,....you need to be armed just to make sure THOSE TYPES don't take EVERYTHING ! ( they certainly have no reservations, or scruples. )

+^d ( mostly true- about the rhetoric )

I think that's actually "bleeding brain".

the point being that you wouldnt have to explain anything if you used your mind to prevent and protect yourself

with a gun.

In fact in all but a few states like Texas (which has extremely lax gun control laws) and Alaska which has almost none. Intensive training, back ground checks and approval by local law enforcement is needed before the purchase of a legal firearm.

Yeah, I should have researched AZ's gun laws but I jumped the gun (so to speak) and mentioned two states that I know have next nothing concerning gun control

right?

only a 10 day wait period here in cali for a handgun, not even that for a "long gun"

That just proves how ignorant I am about our country's gun laws. I just assume such a liberal state such as Cali would have strict gun control laws. The truth is I have been in the Army so long, surrounded by weapons both as my tool of my trade but as a serious past time and hobbie. I am sometimes forget the massive affect this arguement has on the public. Gun control laws really seem to polarize people.

I have a Texas CC Permit you MUST have a background check and take a course. The Murder rate in Texas is lower per capita than probably most places and everybody and their baby sister has a Gun here.

what would that help? would there be a line of criminals with illegally obtained weapons signing up for lessons?

not here in ky, or even in ny and nj unless you are applying for a carry or a dealers permit

The two are not identical. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Most states have requirements for concealed carry which include a background check and classroom time regarding the specifics of packing.

Since you like car analogies, we have speed laws and laws against DWI also yet no one suggests removing autos from society and those laws certainly have not erased auto violations from our roads. WE punish the bad folk and leave the good ones alone. That is the way it should be.

Please..... Are you seeing a 'right' to drive a car enumerated in the Constitution? OTOH, I DO find a 2nd Amendment. Are you required to take a test and prove competence to make comments like you did? Gee, why not?

Exactly......when will liberals understand that (OMG am I saying this AGAIN?) criminals by default don't obey laws. All the intrusive gun control laws in the world just attempt to control law abiding citizens and leave them more vulnerable to criminals (both in and out of government) who don't give a flip for the stupid laws. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Most probably because we do not want to feed them for 30 years so they can die from Natural Causes like many States.

we do, assault weapons and weapons with more than one "evil" feature are banned, i'm not going to go into detail, but the laws are ridiculous out here. for example, one can buy a .500 mag (.50 cal) smith and wesson revolver, but not a desert eagle .50, even though i'm pretty sure the .500 has more poop behind the lead. it's absolutely absurd here. at the same time, gangbangers are running around with kf7's and mini uzis. but as a law abiding citizen can you buy an ar 15? yes, but it has to have a fixed mag, can hold only 10 rounds, and no burst or automatic fire for you!

i wish they would introduce the kinds of gun laws here that you guys enjoy.

Japan has a low murder rate because most Japanese are civilized and not prone to senseless violence.

well that is misleading, as the violent crime rate there is through the roof. thats likes saying somewhere where it is against the law to possess or operate a vehicle has a low rate of DUI

umm.. neat?

nothing to do with anything here that i can tell though, but thanks for sharing i guess?

So? Are you suggesting that Japan has an ideal society? Is there no crime in Japan or do the people in Japan just have no way to defend themselves?

+^d

karate!

Its not likely that the government would want to "wipe us out". There is nothing to gain from that. For the sake of a rational debate you should look at more realistic scenarios:
If the government collapsed and anarchy swept the nation you'd want a gun.
If your home was robbed you'd want a gun.
If enough people fought back we could still wage guerrilla warfare on a corrupted government. The government need to get there money from somewhere. If they wanted to round up a minority group they would think twice if there were resistance fighters.

You would think that in a so free democracy like ours the thought of the Federal government taking up arms against its citizens would be unthinkable but you would be mistaken. Not only is it possible but the DoD already has a plan and the troops in place to crush any serious civil unrest. In the fall of 2008, the 3rd Infantry Division's 1st Brigade was assigned to serve as the on-call federal response force under the control of NORTHCOM. The 3rd Infantry Division is trained to deal with WMD attacks, civil crowd control and to contain any civil unrest.
Under President Bush NORTHCOM and the 3rd Infantry were combined under the control of the Northern Command Army North and renamed CCMRF (Consequences Management Response Force). It's primary mission is to protect the United States government and support local, state and federal authorities against any threat to homeland security. Yes, that means violent, deadly force will be used against armed civilian "guerilla force) or group of angry, american citizen tired of massive unemployment, the raising price of food and fuel, lack of health care...whatever.
The days of a group of private citizen fighting against a tyrantical government and winning is a foolish, misguided dream. The game is rigged. They won and you weren't even aware you were playing.

I don't think it matters where the violence comes from. Saying I should own a gun simply because others have guns is just a gateway to perpetual violence. But that's the world, I guess?
Life is supposed to be about trust (symbiosis is at the heart of survival of a species), and while I don't trust a damn person I meet anymore (because everyone has something to sell?)... I still think that to own a gun just because it's the only way is a ridiculous way to live. Some day, I will probably be shot for this belief. HOWEVER, in the sick world that we live in, I agree that in order to stage a resistance against this system, it would require guns... because as the old saying goes: "you don't bring a knife to a gun fight"... but as previously stated, governments have much bigger guns... like Fuel air bombs and anthrax.

If there was anarchy, I'd feel safer than I do now. That's no lie. At least I'd know where my food came from. And for the sake of rational debate that's why I said "or any government". Though, I did EDIT that after my original post, but before any comments. :) ... The truth of the world is that governments are the real killers. This is historically accurate both in malevolence and brutality... as well as in number of lives taken. Which is to say that people don't scare me, but people in POWER do.

The government also hired militias to kill members of unions, specifically union leaders, during times of non-violent opposition to corrupt and unfair labor laws back in the day. "The wobblies" illustrated that when people band together for freedom, it becomes a nuisance for capitalist government. It's business as usual for the American government to kill it's own citizens if they threaten profits.

What Water would they drink? Why would they want to kill us instead of subjugate us? Whats the point of a Dictatorship with no one to dictate to?

But, NOT well though out.

Sounds like you just made an EXCELLENT argument for the second amendment. There is no doubt that if the Citizens were ever forced to resist the Government by force it would be a Guerrilla undertaking. I also would ASSUME that MANY Soldiers would choose to take their Weapons and join their Fathers, Brothers, Sisters, Mothers in defending the Constitution as they swore to do.

Your argument against the Second Amendment is what again?

The government doesn't want to wipe us out. They need helpless defenseless people to do what they are told. I'm not into being told what to do.

I have to agree with you on what is right in my heart and soul and your right many of my brothers and sisters would refuse to fight or even join the resistance. But in reality it would be a futile exercise. One that would only result in thousand of needless death and an end to the civil liberities we take for granted and live out the rest of our days in a Military/Police State. Trust me and I sure you know, many of those in charge of our nation's military dream about the day when they get a chance to run the show.

I am Irish Catholic from Boston and I grew up listening to stories of the union breakers. Murdering, terrorizing the working class. And your right though an unbreakable resolve those brave men and women won a better life for themselves and their child and their grandchildren.
But, I'm not talking about off duty police officers, Pinkerton agents or thugs with bats, chains and bricks. I am talking about one of the most modern military advance Infantry Divisions in the world who have been training for years in exercises where they practice everything from crowd control, to armed rebellion, qurantee an entire city, and setting huge prison camps.

+^d

"Your right"?? Your right what? Foot? Oh, you meant "You're" as in "you are".

The higher power i refer to is intelligence

that is commendable, and your right as it is others to think differently

very +^d

Fortunately there are no dead people who 'believe in a higher power'. Whew, that settles that one. Thanks.

Was that a threat?
;~)

you sound like a troll.

Well said!