Progressives to ‘Uncloak’ Secret Financers Behind the Tea Party on Jan. 30th

Well--their backing will completely corrupt your apparent ideas. And it has been won over by large donors...how else did those people afford all those feel good commercials that got them elected? So, when the Koch Brothers start telling them what bills to introduce they're going to stand up for their ideals, right? Certainly not. Being a fiscal conservative is a sort of buzz word for 'take that from the other guy but leave the thing i like intact'

This is a possible outcome. The koch brothers coming in with their big money and influencing congressmen to push their agenda in congress. This is whats been happening for decades now in our gov't.

The difference is that just because freshmen legislators got their jobs because they were associated with the tea party, doesn't make them immune to criticism from the tea party.

I think there are two different sides to the tea party. One being the anti-Obama angry voters who just want Obama out of office. Then there is the anti-federal reserve, pro constitution, fiscal conservatives. And I mean conservative in the true meaning of the word. (Balanced budget, transparency in gov't, libertarian...) This group, which I associate with, does not see the difference in president's Bush and Obama, but see both men pursuing unsustainable policies. These people have understood that there is no difference between the two parties when it comes to foreign and economic policies. Ideas are powerful.

any proof?

there's just no pleasing you is there?

lol...I'm a picky guy--what can I say :)?

does the idea that someone is a douchebag count?
what if i present it as an idea?

"what are you a douchebag?" eh?

Do you pick and choose the threads you go into regarding this? I think you missed some.

So, let me get this straight name calling of any sort?

Kenny you are a genius , I was gonna ask the same thing.
(I hope nobody flags me for calling you a genius or Kenny)

That's hilarious Stoney! But they will no doubt vote you down. I have made some enemy's as you well know.

Thanks, so I guess I see what you mean.

Who is the democrats billionaire backer ?

because its important that everyone know that you are all a bunch of greedy fucks who dont give a damn about your fellow americans or our country. You are all only in it for your selves. once all the good people in this nation ( who are the Majority) know this then no one will listen to you and your ilk any more and we can start fixing this mess you made with your so called free market since the last mess you made in the 1930's.

I am not sure there has EVER been a free market in the United States.

First of all, just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they aren't a good person. Second, I think if you look at the November 2nd election results, you may have a different view of who is really the majority. OK, any serious answers?

Because the needs of the many out weigh the profits of the few.

Actually, we ALL have No problem believing that You don't want Your tax money to pay for Anyone's healthcare to save their lives. It's You that "don't get it".
To us it is about the good of All of Society, not just the Rich and the Mega Corps that send American jobs overseas and claim that they are "trickling down" the profits, BS! The only thing that “trickles down” is the S H I T that they dump on Americans.
People like you seem to think that Progressives want to Punish the middle class to pay for programs to help the poor, more BS! We want equality for ALL, not freedom for Only the Rich, and we support programs to Cut expenses on the “Middle Class” families. Stop being sooo gullible to the propaganda of the Rich, you will find that you will have Much more Freedom.

I think your statement "these Koch people, who I've never even heard of" kind of explains it all. You may not watch Fox News but if you are on Tea Party email lists, listen to talk radio, or read right leaning sites then you are most likely exposed to the talking points the Koch brothers want you to hear.

The previous version of Medicare reimbursed hospitals for their expenses treating the uninsured poor. That's what the $500 billion cut in Medicare you heard so much about last fall was for. If there are no uninsured, you don't need to reimburse for uninsured cared. So we already were paying for poor people's healthcare. Just in a half assed way, instead of fixing them up before they needed emergency care at a hospital.

If you truly don't want to pay for poor people's healthcare, we need to allow hospitals to refuse to treat the poor and accept the consequences. I don't want to live in that kind of society.

And in answer to your question, you don't pay for my health care. We pay for it and we pay for others as well. I feel every citizen is entitled to basic health care. A society that is in good health moves forward. Forcing people into bankruptcy just because they get sick and lost their job is not the sign of a healthy or responsible society. Also everyone needs to pay a share because even if you have a health plan, you can eat up a lot more money than you put into it.

Why are you against the health care bill? If you don't want to pay too much for other people's health care then you should be happy there is a provision where everyone has to contribute something. The system now is that you pay more for people who are not paying one dime. Many of those people can afford it and choose not to.

you mean the opinons of the ~34% of the country who voted (almost exclusivly above the age of 45) while the youth vote (who in 2015 will comprise 51% of the electorit) is obviously for the idea?

because your examples are all pretty prove-able. and their end result is scarying people into doing what they want.

which in this case is for people to believe that healthcare reform is going to bankrupt us and ruin the country.

that's why we believe that, since you probably don't really know anything about the new law, you don't ever talk about how you're 'paying for it' all you seem to say is that you have to pay for it, which is what those other people talk about.

but turning your back on your less fortunate (for the most part) fellow americans DOESN'T make you a good person.

going by the election-- the majority is young or ethnic people who didn't vote. I don't even think 30% of registered voters turned out... THAT'S REGISTERED. so the majority of that party voted, doesn't mean they're the majority of the country.

When I look at the November election results all I see is a fickle group of misinformed reality TV watchers. People whose politics are more in line with the genius cast of Jersey Shore rather than those who watch CSPAN. You yourself believed your health insurance contribution was going to be taxed. That was the same misinformation fed to the voters that got them angry enough to vote back in Republicans.

I do know about the law as written, maybe more than you do, and it's doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out giving 30 million people free health will cost money, and since I'm the one with a job paying taxes, it will likely be me paying for it. It's not a difficult concept. If we give 30 million people free health care, who do you think is going to pay for it? The Easter Bunny?

I thought the exact same thing you did when I read his post. HOWEVER, there is one flaw. Those people who did not vote gave their assent with their silence. They could have voted, but their sloth and apathy kept them from the polls. They get what they asked for, and since they "asked" for someone else to make the decision for them, this is what they get.

Yeah, that's right, the people who voted. The people who didn't vote don't care enough about the health care law to vote to keep it, so them too, in a way I suppose.

Not sure how it is where you are, but I live in the Bay Area in California. I don't know a SINGLE person except those who are "liberal" minded who watch Jersey Shore or any other reality show. When I lived in Idaho, no one watched them. My experience has been in direct contrast to what you state here.

No, that's not my question. We can and have and will again argue all the merits and demerits of the healthcare law another time. My question is, why is it easier to believe in a secret cabal of financiers behind the scenes pulling the strings on a massive conspiracy, than it is to believe that I just don't agree with you.

The "Obamacare" bill does not provide "free" Health care for 30 million people. It mandates that everyone BUY Insurance.

Socialism 101. No thanks, I'll pass. I'll be "opting out" of that one if you don't mind, or even if you do..

those people were getting it from medicare, so the money will come from there. and the a few of the other millions of people will pay for it themselves because the insurance company can't say no anymore.

it doesn't take a rocket scientist for your example, but it takes an asshole to hold on to "30 million people with free healthcare" example because it's not true.

this law creates jobs, makes some people's health costs go down, and makes life easier for millions. how's that an inconvenience to you?

How is health care costs and taxes going up going to help me? The health care law will not cut expenses on the middle class by any means, the middle class are the ones that are going to be paying the bills! You say you want equality for all, well I'm sorry, I don't want to be dragged down into poverty so someone can feel equal to me.

Well, if they couldn't pay for it now, they aren't going to be able to pay for it now, someone has to pay for them, so who if not the taxpayers? You are living in a dream world. Creates job? If companies are forced to spend more of their budgets on health care costs, how in the world do you think they are going to be able to hire more people? More money taken out of my pocket that I have no control over that is of no benefit to me is an inconvience, to say the least.

but a survey came out a few months ago, republicans tend to watch more reality tv than democrats, so despite the people you know, it's a "fact" (for as much as polls/surveys are worth)

If they couldn't afford to buy it before, then how are they going to be able to afford to buy it now? And if they can't afford to buy it, who is going to pay for it? You guessed it, the good old American taxpayer asked to foot the bill once again.

It's not that there is some evil conspiracy. It's that a lot of people that associate with your ideology and actively progress it are terrible people.

why do you jump to the conclusion that it's so "someone can feel equal to you"?

do you think being healthy is a status symbol? even though you won't be "dragged into poverty" countries with single payer health care aren't poor, and hawaii & massachusetts that pretty much has this isn't poor. but even so, you don't think getting kids with cancer some health insurance is worth it, or a single mother with four kids having the ability to take them for check ups.

whatever your opinion of the mother would be, who cares if she's a piece of trash welfare woman who had three kids before she became a legal adult and now she can't get a good job and she sucks at life... does that mean that she doesn't deserve health care benefits? cus you're better than her?

The herd mentality isn't necessarily the right mentality.

LOL....The assumption being that Polls are finders of fact...that is pretty funny. Again, I will take my own experience over that of a Poll. Anyone who believes polls is completely ignorant of politics.

I am against the Bill as well, BUT, a large portion of those people are ones who have been denied coverage. The idea is also that when you create a large pool of people buying a product it drives the cost down, thus making it more affordable.

Again, don't get me wrong, I oppose the Health Care bill. I am just playing Devil's Advocate here...:-P

money does not equal jobs. demand does. if no one is buying, then people aren't hiring, if they don't have enough people to meet demand, they'll lose on productivity, so they'll hire to keep up demand, or they'll just charge more for exlusivity, either way, the market will take care of itself. won't it? you seem so free-market why are you worried that it can't handle this?

with 30 million more people going to regular doctors appointments you don't think they'll be a spike in need at hospitals? more people buying drugs and more agents for the insurance company, they'll be new work for people to do. what happened to your common sense approach to the economics of this?

those that couldn't afford it will get subsidies that used to go to medicare... so that's generally a wash.

“How is health care costs and taxes going up going to help me?”
Well, I was Very disappointed with the healthcare bill that passed, I wanted “Single Payer”. I’m not sure how the new healthcare bill will impact You, but it Will help Millions of American Citizens. Personally I believe that “Single Payer” healthcare will LOWER the expenses of the Middle Class by giving Millions of people healthcare Before they get so sick that it becomes an Emergency that will be paid for by All taxpayers through your taxes the way it has always been. Even people that get healthcare through their employer Are paying for it even if they never see that money. The Actual cost of healthcare for middle class Americans would Drop under “Single Payer” and the employer would be able to pay a higher salary because they would not have the expense of private insurance. The amount Saved by not paying for the ever Increasing cost of private insurance would be Far More than the increase in taxes that people would see thus a net Gain for Middle Class Americans. One of the Biggest problem with our taxes is that the Rich get FAR TOO many breaks, such as paying SS Taxes on only the first small part of their income when Everyone else has to pay on ALL of their income. There are Many other examples of the Rich getting breaks that the Middle Class does not get and we Progressives are fighting for the Middle Class whether they actually realize it or not. Don’t be soo gullible to the propaganda of the Rich that tell you that giving them everything they want will help You.

They don't want to see it on your W2 just because they're curious, believe me. Misinformed reality TV watchers. That's how I felt in 2008 watching Obama win American Idol, oops, I mean the Presidency of the United States.

I'll take that as your permission to "opt out". Thanks.

so bush goes to court to protect 'our democracy' because florida was 'getting ignored' but obama just wins a call in show?

that's why we make assumptions that you're just a heartless asshole that probably leans way right, to the point of stupid.

So where do you suppose an increase in demand is going to come from when the consumers are forced to pay higher taxes and higher health care costs by Obama's "reform"? We going to give them more "stimulus" money? That's you're increase in demand? More hospitals to hold all the deadbeats on free health care? More people getting prescription drugs for free? Of course that will be an increase in that demand, because they won't be paying for it, I will! The free market will take care of itself, I just hope it doesn't take too long. David Cameron just admited Britain's NHS was shit after 60 years, I hope it doesn't take that long. I'll be up in front of a death panel way before then. People have already seen the realities of Obamacare, it will not last, the market will win, it always does.

Glad you admit they are assumptions, because I never voted for George Bush and I was just as pissed of as you in 2000, believe it or not.

if the market is going to defeat it stop complaining about it then. let the market take care of itself

and there you go again with your crap fox news-like statements, this time the death panel, really?

you're practically useless, why not leave the country that's disappointing you so much and go keep all the fruit of your work somewhere else.

My liberal friends do not watch it. But they have high ratings and make a lot of money. People seem to know more about the show than how the government works. That is sad.

I believe you can disagree but just because there are 2 arguments does not mean that both sides are equally informed.

Believing in a massive conspiracy is one thing. Noting that 2 very conservative and greedy brothers with substantial connections to right wing politicians and media leaders is hardly a secret cabal. It only seems secret when the news you get never mentions them.

True enough! More people voted for American Idol than the President of the United States. Sad reflection of societal values indeed!

spare us please

I agree with the premise that both sides aren't always neccessarily as well informed. A valid arguement. And these two brothers may be using the situation to their advantage, that would certainly not be unheard of, not at all, not suprising. But I consider myself rather well informed, more than most, in any case, and have never heard of them. But I still disagree with the Obama's health care law. So how do you account for me?

I'm complaining because if it takes 60 years for someone to say it's shit like Cameron just did about the NHS, I'll have to live with it the rest of my life. My mention of death panels was a joke, although if you've seen recent New York Times articles about Medicare, maybe it's not. My country has not disappointed me. The 2010 elections were quite refreshing actually. I think I'll stay for a while.

Very good question(s)... and pretty funny, too.

. . . will you be "opting out" of using roads and bridges, firefighters, law enforcement, kids education, national defense, just to name a few social programs you already use.

Thought so.

Me first . . . right? . . . or in other words "Divided We Fall."

Roads, bridges, firefighters, policeman, I do use. I am not buying into the classic anti-libertarianism line. Yes, my taxes do pay for those things, and I don't want to do them, so I don't mind paying for them. It is quite a different thing from building roads and bridges to making every human need a right by birth and making everyone's self esteem and well being a function to be paid for by the taxpayers.

+^d to 9 - do I hear 10 ?

10 going once . . . 10 going twice . . ?

So who pays for "the many" then? and Who decides who pays for "the many"?

If we cut spending elsewhere we could actually help the poor. We just can't be in 140 nations policing the world and do good deeds for the poor all while having a system that manipulates the currency and takes a portion of your check. We need to pay taxes. YES. but do we have to pay for other countries bills ? We bailed out other countries as well as our own. Does this mean we have a good economic policy? Now or before Obama.

In a country well governed poverty is something to be ashamed of.
In a country badly governed wealth is something to be ashamed of.

~ Confucius

Hey, you actually made a good statement there. Yes, we need to spend less around the world, but not eliminate it all together. The Billions that were given to the companies in Iraq, (Halliburton), just disappeared. The Billions that were given to Iran when they were fighting Iraq, now they use those resources against us. Who gave all that money away? Republicans. Not that Democrats had No hand in it, they Did, but the Repubs have Always been the worst about giving away money to those who Don’t Need it. But our Biggest problem is our Military budget. I feel it can be cut in Half and we would Still have the best military in the world. The CIA is Another budget that could be cut in half. With just those cuts we could pay for All Americans to go to college and for Healthcare for All Americans. So, the question is Not “what party do you support”, but “what are Your priorities”? I think I just stated Mine.

Because amassing huge amounts of money corrupts people more than anything else...there is a higher probability that they will be corrupt than not; especially if they are right wing.

Free Markets are like Dorothy over the Rainbow...its fantasy land. It will never be a reality because you cannot assure people will be truthful, fair, and egalitarian with the money they make exploiting people and the planet.

November 2nd only proved that good financing of a campaign and repeating lies thousands of times gets you elected.

Of course they are fine with giving a Top Notch government health plan to Congress but not to hard working Americans.

i cant wait for round 2 of this were Palin wins in 2012

you should replace the I with we seeing as how your not the only job holding tax paying person here. get over yourself dude, America is about helping all of us. WE THE PEOPLE. not fuck everyone else im the only one important to me.

I learned that during the 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary, you're a bit behind.

I thought it was power that corrupted. Lot of very rich Democratic Congressmen, you know. I'm not corrupt yet, but I'm working on it.

So we must FORCE people into accepting EQUALITY?? Who decides where the middle is? How low must the rich fall to reach this EQUALITY. And however high the poor climb in this EQUAL world; will it be high enough? Making everyone mediocre is not the answer. Just look at our education system. Our healthcare system. This is not free market economics at work. It is your definition of EQUALITY being implemented today.

You don't understand that, the road we're travelling now, under Obama (and previously Bush) will still lead us to that kind of society because the "safety net" will be gone when the dollar crashes. We cannot bail out the world, as we've done, and print dollars by the trillions to prop our own gov't up and still pay for people who cannot without having to face the consequences of these economic policies.

Yes. Exactly. I am 100% for cutting the military in half. Since the military industrial complex is the biggest piece of the pie chart, then we can cut billions out of it and still be spending enough money on our defense. Which should not be mistaken for offense as our president's often do.

I just believe that the welfare state helps to perpetuate the warfare state.

You mistake the free market for perfect market.

People who advocate a free market almost always advocate the rule of law. Today we do not have the rule of law. We have bankers and CEO's becoming high level gov't advisors and office holders when there is an obvious conflict of interest. Then some wonder why lehman fell while goldman was propped up...

The free market does not regulate morals, but it should punish people who are found guilty of breaking the laws. If this simple step were enforced instead of covered up, then the fraud would be less attractive to criminals. The free market does not eliminate risks. The market we have now does that. It rewards gov't "approved" businesses even when they fail ! The free market only levels the playing field.

Not all congressmen accept the handouts offered by our gov't to them at the taxpayers expense.

Capitalism and Free Markets were founded on Economists ideas like Adam Smith. There is a false assumption there that was promoted by Smith...he claimed that there was an equanimity at work when it came to capital holders and workers. The whole exchange was voluntary, however, that tenet has proven false because you have capitalists that are so hugely economically powerful in comparison to the average worker that there cannot be an equitable voluntary exchange. In most instances workers have no other choice but to accept that subsistence paying job in order to keep food on the table for their families.

The whole quaint notion that free markets will cut costs and increase the standard of living for workers is a bunch of BS.

that veil isn't going to come off.
even if obama ends up being what he was supposed to be, even if we get an awesome 'for the people' type person to be president, like they get in the movies, who roles up his sleeves and balances the budget, who steps up to his handlers and changes things for the better...
the veil will just be in the background waiting for that president to leave or stumble. greed's too powerful.