Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

Makes me want to live in Canada, where there is greater economic mobility, safety, and the people are more polite. So polite that they do "give free health care to every deadbeat and illegal alien who happens along and contributes nothing to our economy. "

you're right!
can't those deadbeats-- the young uneducated parents who work multiple jobs and still hover around the poverty line that will never come out from under the mountain of debt from childbirth costs, and nevermind if their kids ever get sick-- can't those assholes understand that i work hard for my money and i NEEDS to buy a new Movada watch EVERY spring.

and don't get me started on those illegals, even though they'll continue to just go to emergency rooms because most illegal immigrants don't register for anything, ya know, kind of helps them hide in the shadows, even then, i bet they'll find a way to benefit from this or steal a job!

why does everyone think we americans should look out for our fellow countrymen? the founding fathers didn't give a fuck about their black property (the human beings they shipped from africa) why should i give a fuck about the ethnic people who infest this great land i call MERICAH?!

Way to play the race card. Good work. If you don't agree with Obamacare, you must be a racist. Good luck with that.

Nobody is giving me free health care, with Obamacare, it will cost me more, and I'll be taxed more, to pay for other peoples. It's a lose-lose for me. Maybe I should move to Canada and live off the polite people's tax dollars.

dude, you are the one who brought up illegals...and you PM'ed me and told me to go back to where I came from...you are obviously a racist. Obamacare has nothing to do with it.

i've gotta plead ignorance on this one, i wasn't trying to play a race card, i just wasn't aware that there was a large population of white american illegal aliens.

when you used the phrase deadbeat illegal aliens, i just assumed you meant foreign people.

Obama is a racist himself, so if i'm racist... maybe i could be president someday, IF Obama's left any america left for me. God Protect Us.

I am against illegal aliens no matter what race they are. Race is irrelevant, illegal is illegal, you are either here legally or your not. And I didn't PM you (whatever that means), you have me mistaken for someone else.

There are white people in foreign countries, or so I'm told. Illegal is illegal, race is irrelevant. You're the one that brought up "our black property we shipped from Africa".

you did send me a private message (PM) like a year ago, and told me to go back where I came from because I said Joe Arpaio sucks and makes life hell for brown people in Maricopa.

you must spew off racist comments all the time, which is why you don't remember...it's no big deal to you... I have no doubt you are a racist.

where not the slaves from africa black? again, i could be totally off base... i was just saying that the forefathers didn't think too highly of the people who were slaves=black people, so forefathers didn't think too highly of black people. no? my transitive math may be off.

and ethnicity has nothing to do with race either. i said ethnic people. white danes are another ethnicity too.

so it looks like you're going for the race card, other than stating the fact about black people i didn't say anything about race-- you did.

Did you know there are more people here illegally because they let their visas lapse than border jumpers?

Didn't know exact numbers, but it doesn't suprise me. Like I said, illegal is illegal, you're either here legally or you're not. How you got here is irrelevant.

So what does how the founding fathers may or may not have thought about black people have to do with socialized medicine again?

What have I said that was racist? What did I PM you?

it was a reference to their infinite wisdom. they know the threat of socialism so they gave us their perfect infallible document. i love the constitution so much i have a blanket with the preamble printed on it, and the bill of rights is listed on the pillows i keep my guns under!

i want to do everything by the letter of the constitution, so if that means treating black people like three fifths of a man, and having to have long drawn out, filibuster ridden "debate" so that most americans get health care (in case they want to exercise their right to "life," you know even though they have liberty and some pursuit of happiness already, what more do they want, right?) and they can make sure they can take their kids to the doctor without having to skimp on groceries or making their rent that month, then so be it.

i just hope the thing gets repealed because these extra few bucks (maybe $300 if I'm lucky and get rich this year) are going to KILL my lifestyle-- shit where's MY pursuit of happiness, right?

In an article about Joe Arpaio, I commented "F that puto", and I still stand by that comment.

You then sent me a message and said "F you too puto, go back where you came from"

I guess I never let you know that this bothered me...mostly because my mother ran for political office, and because she is brown, we would get awful messages on our answering machine telling her to "go back where she came from".

Here's your chance to appologize....I respect your right to have an opinion, as long as you can keep from saying such ignorant things, I won't call you out.

The "F you too puto", I can live with sorta...what did I ever do to you though?

The "go back where you came from" is what really bothers me.

I sincerely do not remember that, but if I said it, I do apologize.

thanks for the apology...I found the screenshot of it...here are your exact words:

"F[censored]ck you too puto, go home to your own country, we don't have enough jobs for ourselves."

If you still don't believe me I can upload the image...shall I do so?

I know you sincerely do not remember.

Do you sincerely apologize?

I do.

Thanks, that really makes me feel better, I forgive.

True enough on all those points. I will argue though that because a thing is a law does not make it right. And, the Health Care "Law" is no longer Law. A federal court ruled it Unconstitutional, so it is no longer Law, barring any higher court injunction or reversal on appeal.

i don't tink glenn beck writes his own crap. I believe that he has slackies for that

good point, he is just a clown that adds a dramatic tone and dramatic glasses removals to other peoples bigoted crap

I don't believe that people like him have a real though of their own. they are out to attract attention to them selves and to the shows they promote. They are told what to say when to say it and who to say it to. Most of them just like to stir the shit so everybody has to smell the stench.

much like palin, the only problem with her is that now that she isn't campaigning, she no longer has writers and spews whatever retarded drivel that can squeeze itself out of that tiny misguided mind of hers

But you have to admit the tiny misguided mind of hers comes in a cute package

I would agree but her accent makes her insanely unattractive to me, im weird like that :p

SMH...for me, you can't be a bimbo and be attractive

Oh ok she is cute till she opens her mouth. But hey i know a few women like that

I guess you don't like blonds?

I am married to a smart beautiful blonde (she was born blonde but it changed on its own to light brown)... and also dated a blonde who went to Princeton...so I don't buy into the stereotype

One in a million brother one in a million. But I'm also very happy for you It's hard to find a good woman these days.

I am a proponent of the single payer option. Though the Democrats could have passed it when they had control of both houses, now it is too late as they only control a single house now.

Single payer is the only way we are ever going to control raising costs,................ well perhaps doing away with the FED would help. Nothing is going to change with the new free flow of money in American politics; in other words We are fucked!

Well expressed. My grandfather Giovani Narduzzo had his leg amputated
all the way up, without any laudanum in 1896 when he was 21 years old.
The NYC doctor gave him some whiskey to drink and something to bite on.
It's a miracle my grandfather survived the agony, shock & loss of blood,
(and near alcohol poisoning...thank God he drank wine and was tough)
During the Civil War there were so many casualties, and the doctors were
such drunken hacks, that they simply amputated entire limbs rather than
simply extract bullets & shrapnel. They had to have morphine handy on
their farms before they were drafted because they had to depend on
themselves. There were more morphine addicts/amputees who returned
as survivors from the Civil War than Russian soldiers returning from
the 1980 Russian invasion of Afghanistan. I watch the History channel
every day. My DVR has many timers set to record their programming
which I review for Journalistic research. I appreciate you're being one
of the voices of reason here on this site, Jan. Thanks for straightening
them out for all of us who don't want Corporate Gummint Fascism rammed
down our throats.

Wow, amazing that he survived. It certainly wasn't a picnic to get shot with a musket in those days or hit by a cannonball. And you are correct, surgery was without anesthetic, infection was rampant, and many died. Healthcare quality , well, quality wasn't what it was. It was barbaric. Which is the point that even though you pay for coverage it isn't assured you will get quality. We should be striving more for that ( which means preventative healthcare measures through our food and environmental policies) instead of playing politics with peoples' lives. Thanks for your response.

You're welcome. My grandfather was the strongest man I've ever known and
served.( My brother and I were helping him tend a large organic garden when
I was 10 years old; Sicilians are Mediterraneans with very healthy diets ).He
was a very God fearing man with a lot of intestinal fortitude, and faith in his
family. He relished the saga of the West. And was comparable to the type of
man Theodore Roosevelt proved to be-tough as ironwood.

An inspirtional quote for you today from my I Google home page, Heer.
" Love wears a hem that extends to the dust, to sweap clean all the streets
and ways. For mercy's sake it vows to leave noone untouched. Because
Love can, it must, and stays ! " Mother Theresa

It's because we as a country have no pride anymore. We only care about ourselves, not our country, or our neighbours. It used to be people knew & cared about their neighbours & wanted to help others who are in need. Now most people don't give a sh*t about anyone but themselves, we all have fences between our homes where we used to have footpaths.

I voted your comment up, Heer lunatic richard. I am of Dutch/German descent
on my dad's side of the family. My grandmother's name was Snyder. ( perhaps
of the Frisia part of the U.K. of the Netherlands, perhaps not. I haven't yet done
very much research on my family tree and genealogy ) But my dad had reddish
blond hair and very light blue eyes. I plan to live in Amsterdam by means of
resident foreign alien status once qualified to by Dutch Government in the
future. I've studied all I can of the Dutch culture and way of life. And I admire
greatly your p.o.v. Having researched your avatar, I find we have 3 of 4 things
in common. So I'm hoping you'll understand that I have endless respect for the
Hollandische in the European Union, and from South Africa. Hoping to keep an
open mind. I'm for a decent, bona fide universal health care system in the USA.

I'm of the opinion that if it were administered by a charitable not for profit system
by Christian orders like the Franciscans, and managed by competent, prudent
financial business managers, we Americans could rise to the challenge of being
all our brothers' keepers. I keep thinking of people like Aescepalous (pardon the
spell check debility) and Hippocrates, being myself greatly interested in the field
of medicine. I've studied natural health science for nearly 40 years, and believe
in holistic medicine which one German firm is renown for since the mid 1800s.
But the scene here in the USA is quite different than where you live, or France
or Switzerland, or the Scandanavian countries. Sadly, it might take the financial
collapse of our corrupt debt based economy & money system before people
realize that health is the 1st wealth. And to live in a natural way that miminizes
the extreme excessive damand on health care resources to restore the balance.

My kin on my mom's side are farmers/carpenters from Sicily. We've always
been close to the land,and have always rejected the money corrupting
influences that have enabled Big Pharma to have the Government they've
bought to institute the Prohibition of Cannabis, which has inconscionably led
to the rise of Organized Crime in the USA and Mexico. Many don't realize if
we now lived as prudently & modestly as colonial Americans did using cheap
& dependable natural products made of Hemp..And Cannabis wonder drugs
immunizing us against 90% of all known infectious and degenerative diseases,
we would not have the situation we now have in the American culture. Being Dutch/American, I greatly respect the Dutch medical establishment. If all
Americans held to the Christian belief not to seek to own the world and thus
loose our souls, we wouldn't have the corrupt, rotten to the core scene we
have with health care here now. Sadly, it all boils down to domination by money,
and Corporatist domination of the Government here to hold our safety hostage
to perpetuating that corrupt system. Nobamacare took 2 steps forward at the
cost of 10 steps back. As a law student I know it will be all our undoing unless
& until the Supreme Court rules the individual mandate Unconstitutional. And
sends it back to Congress to do it the right way without Corporate Bribery to
use the Government to Coerce us deeper into their Slavery.

so move to antartica ! there you can be free and do exactly as you like . never pay for something you dont use and never be botherd by anyone .

It should never be a private owned company that does healthcare for all.
Then you know it will only be for the rich . because the only thing a company is in for is profit . The only way it will work if it's run by the governement . And they should only do it if they want the best possible healthcare for all . Rich and poor.

I was commenting that the bill discussed in the article is not a good comparison to the individual mandate in the health care bill as the author suggested. But because you brought it up, I'll engage.
I argue that government should not provide healthcare for all. The reason we have such great medical procedures and knowledge is because of profit and private companies. If we have government run healthcare for all then the entire process will suffer because there is no profit involved. A government run monopoly of our healthcare system will work about as well as other government run monopolies. Department of Motor vehicles is terrible at efficiency and saving money, our education system is a joke, public services such as trash collecting is better done by private companies interested in profit. I think the best example is if you compare the United States Postal Services to private companies like UPS and Fedex. These companies revolutionized the trade because of profit. They also work better and can turn a profit unlike the USPS. The best way to provide for everyone is for the government to provide funds in the forms of vouchers and then turn the rest of it over to the free market. That way, rich and poor can receive healthcare and the competition that made our healthcare industry, and every other industry, so great is preserved.

As with many things it depends mostly on the people who run these things . I live in the netherlands and we have mandatory healthcare . since the war if i am not mistaken .
profit doesnt drive invention in my opinion . people do . And the environment they work in and compitition is a great part of it. The drive to do the best you can mostly depends on other things.
we pay for our monthly due for that . And it works well for all . I meant governement controld . not run'd by .
I dont know if i agree that provit drove the innovation at say the post office.
but the point is taken .
and for the most part i agree with your comment.

You are forgetting that there are socialized forms of education and health care all over the world that are efficient and better than what is provided in the United States. All at a much lower cost. Your notion that socializing those industries were their downfall does not stand.

Japan's entire Health Care industry is mandated by law to be Non Profit, and there everyone has coverage, and better quality care than in the United States.

Also, say what you want about the USPS but I can still mail a letter to anywhere in the United States for 50 cents. I always use the Post Office.

They may be losing money, but their reliability can't be beat

Privatization is better than socialization in almost every industry. Japan's hospitals run on non-profit, not the entire system. Doctors, equipment manufacturers and nearly everything else is done by and for profit. With the USPS, its a black hole for money, with profit involved, companies are forced to innovate or go out of business, with employees at the USPS, there is no incentive to work harder or better. I've lost alot of mail in our system before. But with Fedex, I'm getting the best service possible because they want my business, the people at the USPS are often times rude because they know I can't go anywhere else for the prices. How much do you think is wasted in the USPS? Even though you can mail a letter for 50 cents, we as a society is losing massive amounts of tax money.

Except that the USPS is a private contractor that does not use Tax Payer Dollars. It has not received any Tax Payer money since the 1980's. I am not sure exactly where you get the notion that there is no motivation to work harder *shrug*.

Non-profit does not mean no one get paid. Again, not sure where you get that absurd notion either. Every single Socialized medical system in the world provides better quality care at a lower per capita cost that the United States' system.

With monopolies (and networks are natural monopolies) there needs to be lots of effective regulation. Monopolies can charge twice as much and give half the quality. The government needs to be an impartial referee, or partial to the people. The problem is the fat cats have the politicians in the bag, and now we live in a plutocracy.

I agree with yourself and Kennymotown's p.o.v.s. Healthcare should be a
Constitutional Amendment enumerated for all those who can't or won't
understand what the 10th Amendment's definition of unenumerated rights
means. George Mason collaborated with Thomas Jefferson when the
founding fathers drafted the Constitution in Philadelphia in 1776. T.J
refused to sign it unless & until all 13 States ratified the Bill of Rights.
Since the Declaration of Independence was his handiwork,and regarded
in law as the preceding document to the Constitution itself, he had no
conscionable choice other than to hold off after asserting that every
person has an inalienable human right to life, Liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. Those unable to heal, won't logically have any kind of life.
Life only follows from having one's health. It's the equilibrium that exists
minute by minute to continue to maintain our fragile life force within our
mortal shells, and tether our souls to this mortal coil.

Who said they foresaw the future?

what was that?

Except that you have no understanding of regulating of maritime matters. There is a long established precedence in Admiralty Law for these sort of things, and Admiralty Law is not regulated under the Constitution.

No. They were acting on a situation that was occurring in their time. Don't you read?
The fact is that congress and the president of the time, passed a law, guaranteeing sailors health care - at a cost to them. This would be exactly the same as Medicare if medicare actually covered everything...which is the same as government provided health care, otherwise known as "socialized" medicine.

Not only was this done over 200 years ago, but it was enacted by many of the Founding Fathers.
So, you can't question what they "would have done". -They did this. This is proof, by action, that they would've supported free health care for the working class.

The writer of this article basically just took away the argument many have used against Health Care reform.
They will have to find another argument.
The founding fathers enacted free health care into law.

Unfortunately, they never mandated this for the States at large because the Federal Government has no Constitutional Jurisdiction to do such a thing. As well, regulating Maritime matters is separate from the Constitution, Admiralty Law and jurisdiction supersedes any National charters. You do not have the same rights and protections as a Sailor as you do as a citizen. This is a long standing International Legal tradition that still is in effect today.

I trust you know that by trying to reason with those who use presumption,
raw force, and emotion to forstall any replies your case in point may well
fall on deaf ears, and not penetrate the armor of a closed mind. My grandad
was an Italian Navy sailor (a cook ) on one of the first Dreadnaught Battleships
in the very late 1800s. He might not have read Mutiny on ther Bounty, or
known of keelhauling and flogging through the fleet...(He actualy liked to
read Zane Grey's Under the Tonto Rim, being a Western fan as I am )
But he was in the military service too. And he was also in the maritime.
He would have understood your point, as I do. You are correct.

Well said.

It depends on what "the people" want.

nope it specifically says "we the people" not "the people"

You Fail!

Uhh---ahhh.....you said socialist......snicker snicker.

So your solution is to force people to buy a product from one of those evil corporations so they can have more consumers that are not allowed to NOT buy their product? Do you realize that Insurance companies stock prices shot through the ROOF when this Bill passed?

There are, and were FAR better solutions. It may be unattainable now, since the Democrats fed Insurance companies more consumers that can now be legally penalized for NOT buying a product from a private, for profit company. When they held the Majority in both houses a Public Option could have been passed. I wonder who that Political Party REALLY works for?

There is also another solution, make Health Insurance Not For Profit.

See how easy all that is..yet, none of that passed in a Democratically controlled House OR Senate. So let me ask you, who are they really working for?

The problem is the people dont rule. We have gone from a democracy to burocracy ( is that right ?) ! We have gotten so swamped by rule's and regulations , by scams and fake democratic powers , that we are now ruled by the elite again . Just as in roman day's , but now we dont get to see one but 10 emperors in a boardroom.
What have we become, as people that we are ruled by minority only because people dont go and vote ! In last years , the voting population has not even reached 50 % !!!!! Think about that ....... in good voting years it has been maybe 40 % tops ! where is the rest ?
People dont believe in politics anymore . It's as clear as day .... And it's the same in many "democratic " country's around the globe . The netherlands, Germany , france etc ....
Democracy means : rule by MAJORITY .
When are we ? And will that do as we hope ? Freedom is mostly in the mind now . We live so close together on this planet that we cant just do as we please . We have to have rules . As we all know . And we have to care for the one's that cant care for themselfs , whatever the reasons are . And we want to be healthy , all of us do . So we have to pay for it and pay for those who cant pay for themselfs. that is the right way . And if you are religous : it's the way of god and the cristian way .
If you can save a life, would you ? I you dont want to , go and move to antartica . There you can watch your neigbour freeze to death to your harts content.

then who is "we" ?

Amen brother , amen! ( i love that phrase)
America has this great constitution and it's raped by all side's ! That's what's great about Obama in my vieuw ; The man actualy thought and believed he could change the dino's in the white house and on capitol hill , got his ass kicked and still maneged to get healthcare trough . ( although they now seem to have found a loophole to rewind it again . wich is stupid and almost racist .)
America realy could be the greatest country on earth and the envy off all the "free world"
If americans wouldnt be so afraid of socialist idea's , wich are not all bad or stupid or lead to comunism or loss off freedom.

you got it !! : )

Someone didn't get the joke.

Hint: It's sarcasm...

indeed sir , indeed !

what gives you the "RIGHT" to leech off the people?? LOL

here is a good question..do think you pro socialist people would survive back then?? probably not..i dont think your concept of socialism is the same as john adams..LOL

get a job and pay your taxes..if you would spend as much time and effort as you do trying to justify leeching off taxpayers as you would looking for a job...you would well off..but then again you think like a socialist

right on brother!

you teach them about leeching on this free message board that you post on all hours of the day -- i'm sure you work AROUND your posting though, so i won't even question the time -- you spread your righteous message of paying taxes, which pay for social services we all use -- not socialist though!

you put the L in lol my man! I love you my fellow american hero!

who care's if they would have or not ? W live in this day and age , with all the benefits that our forefathers have given us . That's what they worked and died for ! So we could have healthcare for all, no poverty,good education and happy live's ! I pay taxes so someone can eat who cant work for his food or is too sick to do so ! I dont want to pay tax ,so the director of some big company can drive a merc and have a milion dollar home . I will gladly pay even more if i would know that it would help poor people have a better life or education ! I dont mind if i have a little less so that others dont die or starve .
That is the best thing you can do with your cash .
What ever happend to ; give us your poor, your sick and the down trodden ?

That is a fucking cool avatar!