Illegal Immigration. Utah's Sensible Win Win Plan that we Can All Live With

must be the water then

so tell me, are you on drugs or is it the water over there?

the entire middle east seems to be on fire. round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows.

boy, youre full of cheerful news! the queen would be proud.

would you feel better if more people of color worked at the u s mints?

wow, didnt realize i was dealing with an expert on karma. who's to say that bad karma didnt cause the downfall of one nation with the advent of another. climate change? well the natural cycle the earth is going through could hardly be blamed on karma. i kinda wish it were true. a little global warming and some extra co2 could help enhance agriculture and feed a hungry world. black africa? well if the africans werent so eager to rid their own country of competing tribes by forcefully gathering up their brethren the slave market would never have been filled. you think the fearful cracker was gonna try and go inland and take the commodity by force themselves? not likely. the ultimate in black on black crime. one mans bad karma is another mans good

i have a hard time believing one could travel the european continent without visa and an expired passport but i am not one to call you a liar. possibly you were in the armed forces thus negating the need. either way not likely one could travel without proper identification these days. it is indeed unfortunate that a hand shake isnt enough in the modern world

Illegal immigrants aren't just "traveling" as you infer, they're coming here and settling down having families, the whole bit. We're not talking vacations...

I don't think the majority of countries would be ok with you just moving in without filing the correct paperwork and being approved first.

If Americans want to travel we have to get visas first, now we have to even have a visa to visit Mexico or Canada.

sorry if your impression of "what is art" is limited to the family guy, and you must be older than methuselah! it is my understanding that world travel requires at the very least a passport with many countries requiring a visa on top of that and has had these same requirements for decades. happy to hear your a child of the world though, but as a child i have to warn you there are many dangerous places where no one gives a flying fuck about your child of the world mentality and would eat you for dinner. kudo's to your dream date, rastafarian pot head marley.on those rare occasions when he was able to think clearly he came up with a few good words worth quoting. peace mon!

Really? That's funny... because as a citizen of a European country, I happen to know travel in Europe requires a PASSPORT and always has. And as I read your slaughter of the English langugage in your post, I can only assume you can't tell the difference between porn and art. Oh and FYI, if you DID travel to Europe... you would know that many countries there do not circumcise their men.

So, you may know a little something about a little something, but you don't know much.

Oh, THIS is what "the world traveler" was referring to. LOL!!! Making fun of David... that's hilarious!!...AND ignorant too!

Now, now, CB, let's not bash Bob Marley. He speaks not only for the stoners like "knopfknows"...well, actually I'm sure he DOESN'T speak for them...... but he does for those who love and wish for peace....like me. Sure he lived on ganja.....but Americans live on anti-depressants.... and the only difference is that we think we're better because they're prescribed.

thanks for the support concerned. many addicts and drug users have clouded minds and dont understand that it doesnt matter whether the drugs are legal, illegal, prescribed or street. mood and mind bending substances including alcohol when abused or depended upon to get through ones day the result is always the same. not the enhancement of ones reality or the expansion of ones mind but the destruction of reasonable thought and or or action. take it from one who knows from previous experience at a very personal level.

congratulations!

I can tell you're "educated".... by the simple fact that you call yourself "white cracker"..... I'm thinking education to you means finishing high school?

My "Education" did not involve organized brainwashing in the halls of higher learning. No, my GPA was only 3.8 in high school, so I decided to travel and live on the streets of the world instead... I hope this was okay with you.

wow, what an eye opener! but youre kind of a downer. i will agree with your concept of open borders and just letting people do what they want, if we can have all the immigrants pitch a tent and shit in your back yard. hmmm...if you could get enough shit for brain progressives to agree, maybe your vision could be realized in the u.s. someday but trying to convince some 194 other racist countries who enjoy border security and autonomy from the progressives of the world may be difficult. yes i agree, a country without law or government and anarchist violence is preferable to the institutionalized variety. peace

wow, nice to hear from a brown racist. you've opened my eyes!

If they don't want to be Americans than they can stay the fuck out! Assimilate or leave!

We're talking about illegal immigration here, not the political ups and downs of nationalism and greed...

thanks jubal, some people on here have automatically assumed that i may be racist because of my views on the enforcement of american law regarding immigration. granted not all law is fair or even necessary, but we cant have a bunch of undocumented people running willy nilly doing as they please without some kind of oversight. the utah initiative may not be perfect but it is a step in the right direction.

hmmm, so are you willing to personally fund the make mexico a state and clean it up effort?

Good to see a fellow Pittsburgher here! But I think we may need to do some of that clean up in the majority of our current states... Do you agree?

Do you really think that Mexico would want to be part of the US? The only reason illegal immigration is so profitable is because the men can send paychecks back to their family in Mexico where the standard of living is so much lower.

+^d

i agree, if an immigrant works and pays taxes then they should be able to receive unemployment benefits, social security and other social benefits awarded to americans. if they become long term dead beats though they should be kicked off the doles just like an american should be. the initiative is not perfect but a move in the right direction

you know that's not going to happen. You have deadbeats all over the country, citizens, that have lived that way all their life. What's going to change them? Not the law!

Again, if they are interested in moving forward and "fixing" their budget and immigration issues, people need to have an opportunity, just like your family did when they were here and just like the dumbass that put this bill together.

err dumb asses, bipartisan dumb asses to you. maybe we should consider sending our own home grown dead beats to mexico. possibly some kind of trade, 1 deadbeat american for every productive mexican. another win win

so if someone has a poor job history and uses up his or her unemployment benefits.... what then? Do OUR taxes kick in to keep them here... or will they have gone through their "trial" period? Just curious.

Good question, but how about applying that same feeling to the millions of whites, blacks, asians and latinos that are already here doing the same?? that are natural born citizens as well??

It's easy to bring up all these "what if's" but unless we have the perfect system for our people here, there's no reason to start making examples out of people, that are only looking for a second chance for their family.

The only reason they are allowed to stay here (even though it's illegal), is to make money for Big Agri-Business. No other reason. Not to help them get out of their poverty, not to help them get educated, not to help them rise up into the middle class, it's to make money for a couple of big companies. As soon as they stop making the big business of this country, it's adios, vatos.

this could be a step toward citizenship. but to be a citizen one should be required to be a productive member of society, not some dead beat sponging off the social system.

it would be nice if their own government was as concerned about their welfare as you are.

Most of the immigrants I encountered are productive members of society, why would they come here seeking greater economic opportunity? And most Americans don't even want the jobs they are hired to perform.

Again, I just think it's a state government approved slavery system. What happens when an immigrant who has never been in trouble with the law, works very hard too provide for their families and themselves, paid taxes and now they're laid-off through no fault of their own? You think it's OK to tell'em well now you have to leave?? That sounds like it's a direct contradiction of the US Constitution.

What happens if an immigrant is here for 10 years working and paying taxes and has children, certainly their kids are American citizens??

and i have nothing against those who choose to be a productive member of society. im not a constitutional lawyer though and i agree if they are paying taxes then they should be eligible to receive unemployment, social security etc. but if theyre criminals or dead beats then they should be sent home. actually our immigration laws are quite humane compared to many countries, including mexico

Nothing could be MORE true here in FL. I don't know if I've EVER seen a landscape or agri business company without most of the workers being immigrants. The bigger the company, the more immigrants piled into the trucks.

You're talking about their net income not their gross they would still have to pay taxes.

What taxes?

Property taxes, sales tax, public fees, permits etc.

They pay all taxes except income, and given their wages, they'd likely be exempt anyway.

how the fuck do you know that? do you live with them? have you met them all? do you know what they go through?

how about you worry about your worthless ass and stop worrying about people that are looking for a chance..

Every illegal worker I've known here in Colorado has had federal/state withholding, but none of them ever file for refunds for some odd reason...

thats a bit extreme, unrealistic and expensive. if they are documented and paying taxes then they would be returning something back into the american system just like the rest of us. what they do with their hard earned money isnt our business as far as i'm concerned, spend it at walmart or send it home. if i were working in another country, which i have and my family was in the states i'd be sending money home to support them as well.

the average immigrant farm worker make better than $9.00 per hour. some much higher. granted not great wages but better than minimum wage in most states. so its not like most of them are actually getting ripped off.

they should. but if they dont even better for the feds and the state

and that's why your country is decaying, no one follows laws anymore.

with garbage like yourself, how can anyone...

We don't have an illegal immigration problem in Canada. Fine, ksirys, live in your squalor with your mexican slaves for all I give a fuck. You Americans are too lazy to do your own work.
I know a guy who moved up here from Arizona. He built houses there and would use illegal aliens for his labour. He said when he first hired them on they would work very hard but after 5 or 6 months you would have to fire them because they became "Americanized" and had became slow and lazy.
Sound framiliar to anyone down there.

Like i said before, unless you've met them all and know what they go through, don't talk or share an opinion. Just because one person had a bad issue with them, it doesn't mean they are all the same.

well many feel laws were meant to be broken. i say, throw those ones in jail

As soon as YOU ARE WILLING to do all of their choice jobs, washing dishes, mowing lawn, picking tomatoes and oranges..... at minimum wage... we can discuss this further. Which job would suit YOU most?

Health insurance, workman's comp, benefits, and not being arrested aren't attractive enough to you? But I agree. Especially for the children of immigrants.

the incentive would be to live and work legally in the state of utah

no more than the rest of us legal citizens. why should immigrants get a better deal than the rest of us?

granted i empathize with the fear factor. but whats the worse that can happen if theyre caught? a free ticket home. a lot of americans work their asses off too so i can t really sympathize there. a pittance? hardly, at least compared to many americans who also work for minimum wage. many of the illegals make pretty good bank especially in agriculture, at $9.00-$12.00 and hour and up. never said they had it better but most certainly have it comparable to the average american. so should we give them a better deal? fuck no. equality? sure, if they can earn their keep legally. as ive said before we cant have a bunch of illegal immigrants running around undocumented doing as they please. no country allows such flagrant disregard to their laws. i still believe although not perfect, the utah bill is a good common sense approach in the right direction.

so i take it you took the legal route?

i agree. we should create something like a guest worker program which will allow us to document all illegal immigrants. allowing them to work, pay taxes and receive the same benefits that an american tax payer gets, such as unemployment benefits and social security. if they are not criminals and remain productive citizens then i would be for allowing them a legal status after a period of time

wow, where do you get your statistics? sounds just like what an american worked has to endure from time to time.

and its really a shame that folks back in that same 3rd world hell hole you refer to dont care about law breakers as much as you do

agreed, great comment hombre

Jesus congo did you go puff a joint?....why you being so reasonable? lol makes me think you got an axe behind your back or something....

no axe hombre. you are actually the one who sounded reasonable in your last comment. there is so much automatic divisiveness in the country that one might jump to the assumption that we have less in common than we do. all of us have opinions, many of them valid.obviously, in general you and i look at things from differing perspectives. and i am sure will continue to have heated debates and cutting comments toward each other in the future. but when i see comments or perspectives that make sense regardless to who makes them i will offer words of praise and or support. if i still smoked the reef i might have shared one with you sometime. peace

Fair enough and thanks, peace on you too. lol, could not help it....

uhhh most immigrant laborers make better than minimum wage and some way above it. so your socialist complaint doesnt hold much water.

agreed. if theyre paying taxes they should have the opportunity to receive unemployment, social security etc.

Thanks for the link!

but literally, if you haven't put in...you CANT take out.
whats your point, that you dislike Democratic sympathy?

wow carslut, welcome to the voice of reason getting voted down club. if some folks believe illegal immigrants should be allowed to sponge off the system without paying into it then those folks should be the ones taxed to allow for such unbridled sponging.

I'm surprised as well. Maybe these people are the ones that are on the receiving end of these entitlement/benefit programs? Spend and tax doesn't work. Somebody has to pay for that Democratic sympathy. If I ran my business like the Government ran theirs, I'd of been out of business 35 years ago. When you have to work for a living, I know, it's tough. I've worked hard all my life for what I've attained. But now the Government is freaking out because they've leveraged OUR future so far ahead, that there ISN'T any way it can be sustained. The tipping point of OVERTAXATION has been crossed. THAT is what we are REALLY seeing right now. And that is what the Democrats have done to ALL of us. Don't forget why the second amendment was put into the Constitution in first place. Just in case the Government got out of control....WE could take it back. As Thomas Jefferson put it..so well. "From time to time the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of both patriots and tyrants". Maybe we need a government that we can afford. It's obvious that we CAN'T afford THIS pile of shit that we call "OUR GOVERNMENT".

You CAN"T?? Are you serious?? That's what people are/have been doing for years. That's what welfare is. That's why the system is overwhelmed. What a dumb-ass comment.