Extortion Politics: Why Won’t American Business Stop the GOP From Threatening to Blow Up The Economy?

and then he should give wall street a holiday time out. Those damned speculators are causing an artifical rise in the cost of oil.

Chamber of Commerce is hammering on the rookie teapublicans. Jamie Diamon (Chase) has talked with Boehner, Geithner is working on them too.

"They ran against debt. They swore and swore again that they’d cut up the nation’s credit card.

But now the 87 freshmen House Republicans are facing intense pressure from administration officials and even some natural allies on why they should — indeed, why they must — vote to allow the federal government to go even deeper into debt.

Financial industry executives, business leaders and Treasury Department officials are visiting the freshmen in their offices, briefing them in small groups and even cornering them at dinner parties. It’s all part of a behind-the-scenes campaign to school congressional newcomers in the economic stakes of Washington’s next big fiscal fight: over the debt ceiling."

"Bruce Josten, the Chamber of Commerce’s top government affairs executive, said he has met with dozens of lawmakers on the debt ceiling and brings charts with him.

“If you’re a new member of Congress, how the hell would you know all of this?” Josten said.

There is an irony in Josten personally seeking support from the politicians that the Chamber spent more than $30 million last year helping to elect."

It's a good article...... not too long.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-debt-ceiling-vote-nears-the-pressures-...

"the business community is sitting back and allowing"? They are the ones pushing the buttons!!

Our very own Government Accountability Office just released a report last month about that very subject:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11318sp.pdf

((and you're right, nobody in the Media mentioned it))

They should. Isn't that what Current is all about though? Us defining the news? Post it somewhere schnookums and we can make some noise. I think that is something we can all get behind.

Snookums ... Make sure you start the posting of the article with W_M brought this up. It's a great idea. LOL!

I believe I heard POTUS speak about that very same thing several times.
Quote from an article.....

"In his State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama declared his administration would work diligently to cut federal government waste. For reducing duplicative programs, specifically, the president said he would “develop a proposal to merge, consolidate, and reorganize the federal government in a way that best serves the goal of a more competitive America.”

He also said he was going to slow federal prosecution of medical marijuna dispensaries where statelaw made it legal but that ain't heppening either.

Going short Monday and long today made nice money for someone.

Was thinking the same thing myslf to be honest. I guess we will see.

only if the sky falls

Keep taxing the rich more and making these lists and see how long they stick around. For the record I'd love to live in the Bahamas, Indonesia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Sri Lanka. . . all beautiful countries with very cool hard working people.

1.4 to 28 is much higher than 0 with rebates and taxpayer guarantees . The really big corporations dont pay . They only recieve. Dont leave reallity out of equations. The ruling class actually had leading roles in seting up many of the countries you have listed above. Do you think they actully pay anything to those governments either ?

The rich I know, (and I know rich) are killers of bodies and souls. I dont want them to stick around stabing us and drinking our blood. Good ridance. Let the devil have his own . Let them burn thier illgotten paper dollars in hell.

With the richest Americans actually paying a little over 16% ( remember that money you don't work for is taxed at a lower rate of 15%), the top 1/10th of 1 % can cut that list in half.

Boehner knows exactly when the car's going to leave the road, Obama even had the Treasury Secretary produce a nice little report about it:

http://current.com/news/93130670_secretary-geithner-sends-debt-limit-letter-to-c...

You're right, if the debt ceiling isn't raised the World economy would take a significant hit. It also looks like it's going to take a significant hit if we do raise it too. Using the terms of the game the government is playing; they're in a "liquidity trap".

we should rape wall street and each of it's past employees of every bit of their ill gotten wealth!

There are people who own and operate the casino gyp joint we call Wall Street . They are the same people who own the banks and the big businesses and the same people the CIA was set up for. Us humans are far outside the loop of any real power. Those people love us like they love roaches in thier kitchens. Thier final solution is massive force reduction by brutal attrition. Check the real ownership. Read your history. If you do not know the names of the books just ask me for them. I live to share.

The sad thing is that with the Supreme Court decision on election campaign funding, we will never get back control of the Government unless citizens wake up, rise up and fight back by voting out these people in Congress and the Senate that are owned by Wall Street, the Koch Brothers and their ilk. Before you vote check out the person you are voting for by checking their voting record. If they voted to repeal Wall Street Reform, EPA Regulations, etc., they are not looking out for your best interest but Corporation's best interest. Look beyond the spin they feed you. Democrats lost last November because of empathy and the spiffy misleading advertising brought to you by the Koch Brothers, Wall Street, and the Chamber of Commerence. Don't be fooled again. Remember there are more of us then them. It we unite we can defeat them.

I think we tried to build the country without borrowed money (colonial script) and the outlawing of this debt-free currency was one of the precipitating factors for the Revolution itself.

A country should never have to borrow, and THAT is what I think they are fighting for......to make sure we continue to borrow, just not too much and not too little, and only for the things they want us to borrow it for. Like wars.

Borrow too much, and the system breaks. Pay off the debt, and the money supply collapses and the system breaks. They like this system of debt-based money just the way it is, thank you.

stake them out in a desert sun! after we take back our money of course...

Imagine though not borrowing money. Who could own a home or a car or pay for college without debt?
If people had to pay before they "leave the store" our country would be more like India where only the wealthy own it all and the rest are mere serfs dying in the streets. It takes money to make money and if you can't borrow money you can't even get started.

I'd be satisfied if I could just get a strong light on them long enough for the country to see the fraud.

People would still borrow money, but the government doesn't (or shouldn't) have a need to. The savings that people borrowed would have to be real though, not bank credit created out of thin air.

"Why are they pretending that borrowing money is a bad thing all of the sudden?
This country was built on borrowed money."

Bush and Obama have borrowed to excess. They pushed the credit card to the limit. Now there needs to be a solution to the problem.

"Imagine though not borrowing money. Who could own a home or a car or pay for college without debt?"

If your financial situation was the same as the US government your loan application would be denied. Or the interest rate would be excessively high. We can't afford high interest rates on the debt.

Glad you agree.
Cut "Defense" and tax the rich!

The Fed lent $9 trillion to the banksters at near 0%.
Tax the rich!

For the nation to borrow through tough times is not bad it is investing toward the future.
Where we are getting screwed is when they borrow to put more money into the already bloated accounts of the wealthy thru tax cuts and corpirate welfare.

just hope people remember who the enemy is

Taxing the rich is not the answer. Living within our means in the answer. We have too many government agencies that accomplish nothing.

The word was the banks were too big too fail. I'm not sure I agree. But we could get rid of the Fed.

I'm just a numbers guy and the GDP increases at the greatest rate when top marginal tax rates are above 42%.
Also the top earners in this country have seen their annual income increase by 403% over the last thirty years.
The bottom 90% of hard working Americans saw their wages increase by 1%.
Do the patriotic thing and admit you should pay more.

Yes close Homeland Security, DEA, dept of defense, I'll give you ATF.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store not a government agency. :)

How about we don't raise the debt ceiling and raise taxes on the top 2% ? We can cut our Defense budget by $300 billion dollars per year and we will still be spending more than all of the other Industrialized nations around the world, combined. Raising taxes on the top 2%, ending the wars, and cutting $300 billion from the Defense budget is our solution to prosperity....... Do you believe the Government doesn't know this, and even cares?

The problem, as your existence clearly shows, is that there are far too many idiots around who can't possibly understand the complex issues of modern society and despite that, not only have an opinion on everything, but a hard-held, certain, screaming opinion on everything.

Social Security and Medicare are paid with their own taxes. They are extremely efficient programs, but will be especially expensive over the next generation because of demographics. They can be fixed quite simply by tweaking how they tax and what they cover. But freaks like you want to just throw them away and watch the elderly carnage.

The military budget is a different subject entirely. We spend way too much on that. But very little goes to true waste. That is the case with most programs. Your weirdo view contains all these departments that just waste money left and right. That's not the case. Most of the programs do what they were intended to do quite well. The problem is where we put priorities. We do a lot of expensive and useless stuff and avoid a lot of cheap useful stuff. And we haven't paid in taxes what we've received in services more than one or two years of the last 30+.

Most of the big issues are actually quite simple and solvable. What's impossible is to solve them with all these loud, entitled idiots throwing wrenches in everything. The only way we'll ever really move forward would be if conservatives grew human consciences and rather than trying to fuck vulnerable people, tried to make the social solutions better, more efficient and more appropriately targeted.

And yes, once we've worked out the programs we just can't live without, we have to pay for them in taxes. Duh.

I hear ya mate. Others will. Don't give up.

Simplify the tax code so there are no loopholes. . . or better yet get rid of the income tax all together. Get rid of the Federal Reserve and allow currencies to compete. Spend as you go, end the empire building and a pony for everyone. :-)

I agree. Start taxing the top 2% w/ a 50% tax. that's a great start!

Well said.

It wouldn't make a dent. The debt is spiraling upward. There needs to be serious reforms across the board.

Again, Asshole.

Spending is only one small part of the overall problem, and entitlements are NONE of the problem -- the biggest problem we have right now is too much money going for wars we don't need to be fighting, and the total goose egg the wealthy and corporations pay in taxes. If corps and those 400 richest people paid ANY taxes we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well if you take this problem seriously and want the chicken-hawks to back down you are going to have to entertain the idea that domestic entitlement spending programs are PART of the problem. Otherwise we just stay exactly where we are and the Federal Reserve will have to print even more money to pay for all this and we will all get hit by the massive "inflation tax" anyway.

The US spends far less on "entitlement spending" than any other member of the OECD, it's important to remember that we spend relatively little. In fact, we're at the bottom of the OECD 's 34 listed countries in social spending as a share of the economy. America spends 7.2% of GDP on social welfare, compared to 28.4% in Australia. #14 Iceland Social spending as share of GDP: 20.6% #13 Hungary Social spending as share of GDP : 20.8% #12 Greece Social spending as share of GDP: 21.3% #1 France 28.4% Source: OECD View

Read more: http://financial.businessinsider.com/siliconalleymedia.clusterstock/news/read?GU...

I don't even know that the OECD is. Nor am I even going to bother looking it up. The US a sovereign nation answering to no one but it's own people. I was born and raised in Australia and the number of dole bludgers in that country is NOTHING to aspire to. It disgusts me the amount of alcohol a disability pension can buy in that country. There are no primary producers left there. They make nothing. Contribute nothing. They get by on taxing the hell out of the companies that mine it's natural resources. Wealth distribution. ENTITLEMENT. You do NOT deserve a cut of anyone else's wealth for the mere fact that you exist. JUST as important as it is for Republicans to understand that we can't be the policeman of the world and make laws against who we want to marry and have intercourse with, Liberal Democrats HAVE to give in to the concerns of fiscal conservatives and CUT SPENDING ON ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS!

Completely getting rid of entitlement programs will NOT balance the budget. There need to be cuts elsewhere, defense in particular. That alone makes up 40% of the budget. Social Security and Medicare make up 43% of the budget. Close tax loopholes. Mind you, I didn't say raise taxes, just collect what is owed. Ryans budget plan increases the deficit by making the Bush tax cuts permanent. The plan then attempts to offset that by gutting entitlements. The republicans are only screaming about the deficit now because there's a Democrat in the White House. They had no problem at all running up these deficits over the last decade. If they were in power, they would still be running up debts. Republicans have been running up debts for the last 30 years. And when they get back into power, they will run it up again. Even Reagan had to raise taxes 3 times to try and cover up his profligate spending.

By the way, just because Australians screwed up their social safety net is no reason we should trash ours. Europeans provide even more comprehensive services to their citizens than we do. Probably not perfect, but I don't hear many people in Europe trying to undo things.

Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and has nothing to do with compromising the sovereignty of any nation or interest in directing policies. They merely compiled the numbers.
The point being made that the US devotes far less toward social programs than other industrialized countries and in general receives far less services which leads to a greater degree of income disparity.
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resource/the-spirit-level
Check this link for more on the societal effects of economic inequality, much of which has much to do with "entitlements" or as I would refer to it human decency.

I . . . think you misunderstood me. I am for cutting everywhere. Tax everyone less or not at all. Most Libertarians think this way. Government can only consume and waste. It can never create. Without it's over eager regulation and liberty destroying "protection" we would all be MUCH better off. It does serve a purpose but. . . NOT as a replacement for personal responsibility.

Very nice point. 30 years of corporate written laws has really degraded the country.

Maybe you don't understand how America's social security and Medicare work. These are social programs that derive funding from a separate tax imposed on the payroll of the citizens. The money does not come from the general fund and has never added to the deficit or the debt. In fact SS has over a 2 trillion dollar surplus.
These are programs we all pay into our entire lives and hopefully live long enough to enjoy one day.

Yes that is the illusion. The reality is that Social Security money is already spend before it is even collected. Congress "borrows" from it all the time. Efforts of fiscal conservatives to get our government's grubby hands off of that money continually get shot down. Social Security is now paying out more that it takes in and with all the baby boomers retiring. . . don't expect to see any yourself if things stay the way they are.

By "fiscal conservatives" I guess you are referring to Clinton who actually balanced the budget or Gore who proposed the "Locked Box" on SS.
And you're right when you point out the fact that Reagan and the two Bushes ran up the national debt by lowering taxes and bloating "defense" spending. Dropping bombs is no way to make money.
Ensuring the elderly have decent health care and are given a modicum of financial security, or seeing to it that no child goes without food in the worlds wealthiest country is not an "entitlement" it's the price we pay for a society.

Like the teaparty said durning health care debates. :Leave my health care alone" Now I say "leave the entitlements alone"

Thank you.

We're not a socialist country.

I agree BejaminDover, with one little change

It's the price we pay for a CIVILIZED society! There fixed it.

Civilized societies DO NOT throw there most vulnerable citizens out in the street so some rich asshole with no conscience can by another yacht! I have no problem helping the most vulnerable, but then again I have a conscience.

There are always going to be a percentage of people that will game the system. It is not always the poor that do this. As witnessed by Doctors being busted for millions in Medicare fraud. What makes me sick is people like Wegg and Warren Merrill attacking the most vulnerable as being undeserving of our help while slime like Loyd Blankfein just walk away, as if they actually worked for the money they steal from their customers every day. That to me is uncivilized! I see people do years for welfare fraud but those Doctors get off with a slap on the wrist. I want to see some equity in punishment. I want to see these filthy scumbags like Blankfien lose every dime they stole and do jail time. Do what we can to weed out the gamers, but lets not through everyone else in need to the dogs because of a few assholes.

Not every person in need is some scumbag trying to game the system. The sooner the conservatives understand that the better. Maybe just grow a fucking conscience!

No tea party I ever went too said that. I was shocked at what I saw on TV with what they were doing in other states but the Tea Parties in Utah were all about cutting all government programs.

There are a surprising number of people that feel this is where the line in the sand is.

We're on it.

If 'they' are going to hold the last vestiges of America's social contract hostage unless they get their way, there are many who say "let it all go then". We'll pick up the pieces after the global economy has completely fallen apart. Default en masse on the lenders of the money and start a new system that doesn't depend on them.

If we raise the ceiling we still have a monetary crisis on our hands. We obviously cannot pay our debt now because we need to RAISE THE DEBT CEILING in order for us to be able to BORROW more money.

I would choose a depression over another bailout every time
Oh but if the Wall St banksters don't keep getting bailed out they might just decide to do the final 'swan dive' -- wouldn't that be just too sad for words? :-)!!!

If the whole house of cards collapses they will take everyone down with them. I'd be willing to call their bluff. It's the blood out of a cabbage thing. I don't think their corporate masters will allow it. They have more at stake than the rest of us poor unwashed masses. The bankers should have chosen hari-kari in the first place.

Their is no monetary crisis. They just have to put a choke hold on the golden geese. All of the money that should have been trickling down is stuck up there somewhere. It's time for some rain.

To me "line in the sand" evokes the Alamo. The Alamo fell but it accomplished the purpose. We have to have the courage to make the sacrifice, The alternative is to live under tyranny.

I think this is such a hypocrisy on your part. "Our" way is to cut spending. Do I think the republicans should go after Healthcare and medicare before cutting the military industrial complex handouts? No. But we need to cut our spending. If we raise the debt ceiling then at least don't call it the debt ceiling anymore... call it the "ever changing amount of money we owe to foreign gov'ts". The debt ceiling is only a problem because WE SPEND MORE THAN WE TAKE IN... do you think its a good idea for our federal gov't to spend only what we give it in taxes? I think that's the only way that should be available. They are spending our futures away by the hour.

The fact that the Republicans have the gall to DEMAND cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and (insert any other social program here), but not Defense, is akin to a kid in school demanding that a school cease providing lunches once he's caught bullying everyone for their lunch money.

The fact is, Republicans put us in this mess. The increase in Government debt started under Regan and continued under Bush I. Under Clinton (a Dem!!!), it took damn near 8 years, but we finally were able to get it right and start to decrease the debt. Then we all know how great Bush & the Repubs governed us for 8 years, cutting taxes and jacking up spending. Yes, when the bottom fell out of the credit bubble, Obama was forced to spend more, less the economy fall off the cliff.

The fact is, this whole "borrow and spend" pattern was perpetrated and continued by Republicans. Now that they put us here, they don't get to set the rules to try and get us out of this mess. Using history as our guide, the democrats are the only obvious fiscally, socially, and morall-sound choice. Yes, we're all aware cuts need to be made, but more importantly, revenue needs to be increased. Go get the money from GE, Conoco, all the other corporations, and well as that top 1% of americans, and pay for my social security and medicare. You want a fight? You just found it.

At some point, they will settle on a budget. Will Republicans be happy? Will the Democrats be happy? I don't know. But I do know that it won't be settled before they hit the debt ceiling. Do you realize what will happen if they don't raise it?

Interest on government bonds won't be paid
Our currency will be devalued
Mortgages won't be issued
Small business loans dry up
Short term financing will disappear
Higher interest rates on our debt (very counter productive)

and more.

In other words, our economy comes to a screeching halt. And there are global consequences as well.
Allowing any of this to happen, especially given the state of our economy, is just dumb. They have to raise the limit.

How much or many of your values and ideals are you willing to give up to get it raised? And raise it by how much? How long will it last?

What will happen next time it needs to be raised? How much should our side give up then? And when would it stop? When we have nothing left to negotiate?

The fact is; our system is based on debt. It needs debt to work. Loan proceeds are what we call money. Money doesn't come into existence unless it was borrowed by someone first. That system has to stop. Now is as good a time as any to demand a better system......but first the current one has to fail.

We have some clear differences here. I don't think we need to trash our economy to fix the system.

You're right. I can think of several ways to fix systemic injustices without trashing the economy.

As they were talking about on NPR this morning, just having a Congress with the wherewithal to issue a new US Currency (instead of using Federal Reserve Notes) to pay off the national debt while at the same time requiring the private banks to bring their reserves from 10% to 100% (ending their ability to issue the nations money exclusively via loans) would do the trick. It's just a matter of political will.

Another great example of the real problem. Anyone think schnookums here is a leading expert on financial systems and monetary policy? But lo and behold she has a strongly held, unbending, radical position to undo and rebuild the entire thing.

Just because I understand why the current monetary system was designed the way it was, and how our financial system works doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I obviously don't. I am, however, doing my level best at drawing people's attention to the metastasizing cancer at the center of our system......the built-in injustices that it guarantees by its very design that neither Republican nor Democrats have the solutions to.

I fail to see how that is a part of problem.

As I had said on another thread yesterday, if the health of all our citizens and the economic security of our aged citizens are a priority for our society, then these priorities shouldn't be treated as an afterthought......they will have to become the foundation of our society. Doing that requires monetary stability, and we are a far cry from that now.

Judging by your terse and silly treatment of the reserve rate, I don't believe you understand any of what you claim to. It's a problem because you're willing to just trash the world financial system with limited information and apparently no understanding of what that would do to people. And it won't be the rich who suffer.

Now I don't think you're really part of the problem. You're interested in information and that's good. But you're an exhibition of the problem as I see it. Your attitude of predetermined certainty when embodied in a biased, slow-witted, and grossly misinformed red neck is how the Republican party derives it power.

The financial system could be reworked for stability and fairness without trashing it's amazing capacity for growth. But that would take people of good faith working toward clear principals. I think the people need to be involved in making sure they elect people of good faith and deciding which clear principals we should work toward.

But instead we have amateurs making decisions they're not qualified to make (For example: "We'd be better off defaulting on our debts, collapsing the world's economy and starting over"), and then fighting for their decided position with any means necessary including electing people of bad faith who share their short term goals.

You seem to have a predetermined certainty as well. What does your attitude embodied look like, and which political party do they belong to? On that same note, as 'amateurs' are not qualified to make decisions, what professional school of thought do you think would best dispense with our current monetary and financial predicaments?

Good comment.

Do you agree that raising the limit will compound our debt problem thus making it harder for us to balance our budget before the collapse of our dollar?

Look, we're between a rock and a hard place. We need to bring the deficit down. We also need to make sure we don't send the economy backwards doing it. Defaulting on our obligations would do just that. They have to raise the debt ceiling.