Thanks!

Exactly!!!!

You're welcome!

exactly... the same people who challenge our president to a birth certificate contest are the same ones who alienate the rest of us as non americans too. they dont stand for what most of us stand for... they are the idiots of our nation. they get the most attention because they are the most crazy, not because they make the most sense.

Agreed! Just because they are the loudest doesn't mean they are in the right. And, in this particular case, it is pretty clear that is what is happening.

Many of our founding fathers were slave owners.

and many of our current senators and congressmen have very dedicated guatamalan servants that they pay dollars a day. whats the difference? they dont have to give the guatamalans room and food... thats what

Well said.

Indeed. People always want to leave that out.

Hey, I agree. I am an advocate for all people of color, myself being of mixed heritage.

What exactly is your point?

I'm quite aware of where the slaves in the United States came from. I was speaking to the rise of slavery itself. Conceptually, the ideology that was espoused then is no different that the ideology of today. While the marginalized members of society fight about there positions relative to each other, the rich, wealthy elite sit back and laugh. Distributions of things such as wealth, education, and social status will always be skewed. You can't undo 400 years of slavery and inequality in 60yrs. The point that I was attempting to get across was that the in-fighting between Blacks and Whites and the poor and supposed 'middle class' needs to stop in order change the true power structure in America.

How about you respond to comments in order so people can see the context. This is not where this comment belongs. If you did this in order for me to see the comment (or rather for you to be seen) that is silly because I see it and you no matter what in the updates and in e-mail.

I’m not providing any in-depth response until this is moved to the proper place. Later.

Although I agree with everything that Baratunde Thurston stated, I do have to say that I think he is giving Donald Trump too much credit for relevance. I know that Trump is an infuriating lowlife and that we all have to vent. I fucking hate his stupid, racist ass too. But I think that the more attention he gets, even negative attention, fuels his insatiable need to be seen and heard

Well said ED.....I worked for trump...not closly and saw him up close ...and he is without a doubt
a gaping as@hoe of a low life man.

Very well said......Hit him in the pocket book. Anything advertised on that show I stay away from......He is such an ignorant blow-hard.....

The point is that Black people will never truly be American in the eyes of certain people. This is a pretty unambiguous point and should be taken in with the context of the video. I know… as well as other Black Americans that we are American but that doesn’t mean that others accept us as true Americans. How people personally define themselves is NOT the issue here and in this particular case such definition was clearly not enough. So this tirade is inconsequential because neither Baratunde nor myself expressed or implied that the views of others somehow determine our own views of personal identity.

~What’s “nonsense” is this rant about absolutely nothing. Venting about an element of an argument that is non-existent.

Institutional racism. There is no remedy for it, but to allow the once enslaved people to be truly accepted in the society. That has never happened with people of African decent. So, yeah, it is true. We have never been truly American in the eyes of a majority of people in this country.

Listen to Oily Tits. She came from an Eastern bloc country and moved to Israel. She moved to the United States, and believes she has the right to challenge Obama's birth certificate. She has been on the MSM, she has filed lawsuits to, in her estimation, prove that Obama is not a natural born citizen of these great United States. She is a FOREIGNER! Her citizenship should be revoked, and she should be shipped back to whatever hell she came from.

Donald Trump is an evil bastard. He is wrong, and he knows he's wrong. He's got an audience and the MSM, not just Faux, loves him. They are just as dispicable as he is. The bastard hasn't voted in a election since 1989. He's been married umpteen times. He's had to file bankruptcy more than once. He has mob ties. What the hell gives him the right to stand up and pass judgement on anyone. He couldn't pass judgement on my dog.

But, Trump has a platform because this country has a huge part of its population that do not, and will not ever, believe that Obama has any right to the presidency. If it is not the color of his skin, then what is it? Obama is just a qualified as any of the others that came before him to sit in the Oval Office. So, tell me, what makes him different?

I'm not jumping down your throat. I'm looking at the world from a different perspective.

yeah.. thats to some people... people consider me to be unamerican too because of my views, or because my son is half black, or for whatever reason... those idiots are idiots... you cant change idiots... and you cant harbor anger for them either, because it brings your own spirit down. you cant carry the hurt and pain of your ancestors. most of us do not agree with donald trump. recently we have been shown scientific evidence that conservative republicans are physically inferior in the make up of their brains. there is nothing you can do about these people... and your speech to move us makes no difference because we were never against you in the first place... and those who are against you arent on this website, and if they are, what you just said didnt make a damn bit of difference to them... just like obama showing his birth certificate didnt make a damn bit of difference either

“…you cant change idiots... and you cant harbor anger for them either, because it brings your own spirit down.”

With all due respect, I do not harbor any anger on this matter so please spare me the pseudo-psyche 101. You claiming as such uncovers another problem here though; when minorities speak out against issues of social inequality they are always deemed angry. This is only done to discredit those who speak. This is only done to dismiss legitimate claims and make it appear as though those minorities are being irrational. Your entire post is stained with condescension and dismissiveness.

If you have not personally experienced the things that black people have endured and continue to endure, who are you to tell them exactly that they should NOT be angry? More often than not when a black man or woman “makes it,” their accomplishments are always called into question for no other reason except for the color of their skin. It’s always in the minds of many that you somehow achieved what you did because of affirmative action and other special help.

*Parts 2 and 3 below

President Obama worked hard, went to the best schools higher education can offer and eventually became the leader of the free world and for over 2 years now he has consistently been accused of being ‘the other;’ literally being accused of not being an American. Did it ever occur too you that Thurston and many other black people could personally relate to this experience? Working hard, accomplishing things that people thought you couldn’t and then those accomplishments are diminished when you’re told that you could not possibly have done what you have without help… having your name besmirched and in this case your citizenship called into question all for the sake of trying to discredit you. Have you ever worked in an environment well it is clear that many people believe you do not deserve to be there and treat you as such?

Trump and people like him are not just claiming that President Obama is not American; they are also claiming that he did not deserve to be at Harvard. These two charges go hand in hand… this is why many people are angry and for you to say that Thurston’s speech “makes no difference,” and things like ‘don’t carry anger’ and more foolishness about carrying the hurt of ancestors… I mean really? This is dismissive and condescending.

And just in case you do not understand that you are being condescending and dismissive…

“and your speech to move us makes no difference because we were never against you in the first place... and those who are against you arent on this website, and if they are, what you just said didnt make a damn bit of difference to them...”

Really? Well thanks for letting black people and people who empathize with their experience know that this does not make a difference. Thanks for somehow making this post about YOU. I did not post this video thinking that the people of Current were some sort of enemy. Neither myself, Thurston, or anyone in this thread accused the said “we,” of being against us. I posted it because it is relevant. Had it not been this thread would not have over 200 comments.

Finally, until you have personally experienced what many successful black men and women have to deal with everyday it would be best if you keep your comments to yourself. Particularly comments telling them not to be angry and that venting their frustrations does not make a difference. Later…

you ARE angry... i watched your video... there is OBVIOUS ANGER there... i agree with your anger, however you judge me like the bigots judge you, so you deserve no sympathy, and you deserve nothing from me. your whole response to me was out of line. you plea to white people to understand you and accept you, you're angry because there is a small population of white people who dont... yet you turn ugly to the people who do agree with you. my whole point was, you cant fix stupid... and i cant fix your stupidity either. have a great angry life, good luck changing racists... i'd say change yourself first, because you ARE an angry bitter man... regardless of your color... you dont know me, you dont know where i'm from or where ive been. you cant see life through my eyes... dont think everything is pie because i'm white, because its NOT. i dont hate you because a black man raped me, and i dont hate you because i'm deemed white trash everytime a racist pig sees my mixed race son, and i dont hate you because of your skin color, so dont you dare judge me based on my color, dont you dare think that i grew up in a great household because my family is white... you are NOT the only person who struggles... and you are NOT the only person who is judged... as you clearly proved by judging me yourself, based on my color.

how u could have taken my comment to be condescending or dismissive proves how angry you are... the entire post was a pep talk to you. how dare you... really...

Are you daft? I am not Baratunde Thurston. That is not me in the video. Baratunde Thurston is featured in that video and I posted his video from Jack and Jill Politics. How are you the only person to not realize this? Baratunde does not need to post on Current. He has his own popular website and he is also editor for The Onion. So you posted all of this misguided drivel for Baratunde Thurston thinking I am he when I am a she. Useless.

I dare you to address the ACTUAL Baratunde Thurston. You know what… I will pass your message right along.

Furthermore, I will not entertain your blatant nescience any longer. I have said all that needs to be said. Later.

*I didn’t even bother to read pass the first two sentences. I’m sure it’s more of the same nonsensical tripe from before.

Wow… And you still don’t get it.

ok... i was mistaken... i'm not above apologizing for being wrong... i am sorry... but you are still a victim and always will be... cry me a river... please do forward my first message to him, because i'm sure he's smart enough to realize that my first comment was aimed to be helpful to him and give him inspiration, whereas you took it as an insult and condescending... someone has ABM syndrome... and its YOU

of course you didnt read the entire thing... i wouldnt expect you to... because having other peoples points of views may not allow you to stay a victim, if they say anything that makes sense... you're just like a republican, you read what you wanna read, you know what you wanna know, and you ignore the rest... cry on victim

yes... it does not make a difference to people who ALREADY SUPPORT YOU, you cant make a former racist of someone who was never a racist! ... duh!!!

Well stated, Orchidblack!

...And never will. SMGDH!

You know what… I should not respond because you are typical but you need to be checked. The fact that you cannot even have a conversation about race and relations without resorting to puerile attacks says a lot about your character as well as your inability to understand and accept your flawed perception of reality. You accuse me of being angry when in fact you are the one who has displayed nothing but an irrational angry disposition without just cause. You came into this thread on the defensive with your condescension, dismissiveness and impudence. Your entire argument is nothing but an unnecessary display of emotionalism.

Also, why do you continue to bring up slavery? Nowhere in any of my statements in this entire thread did I remotely or explicitly say anything about slavery in my argument. I do not need to go that far to site examples of inequality but for some reason you feel compelled to scream out that you had nothing to do with slavery and you are not responsible as if that has anything to do with the conversation.

Next, you continue on with your lies talking about I have been blaming white people all throughout this thread, an obvious lie that can easily be debunked. You don’t think people can read and find out that you are a liar and a charlatan? I have in fact; spoke of the system of institutionalized racism that still exists in this country… institutions of racism… I did not say anything about the ‘white-man’ because everyone plays a role in the perpetuation of these institutions but somehow you concluded that I am blaming white people when that is farthest from the truth. Again, your focus on how you are NOT responsible for slavery says a lot here as well as your falsehood that I am attacking white people, especially since I never mentioned any of that in any portion of my argument but according to your deliberately erroneous perception this is so; funny thing is you need this to be so. You need to lie and charge me with being angry… these are often tools used to discredit minorities genuine and substantiated concerns about present day conditions.

Finally, when I responded to your drivel, I did not know your race so your charge of me attacking you because you are white is a bold face lie. It’s beyond pathetic, that even in the so-called liberal community here that one cannot engage in civil discourse without people like you coming around here with your buffoonery. All of this talk about how you aren’t responsible for slavery and yadda yadda… talking about how I am playing a victim. You are the one who is acting and professing victimhood here. Nothing you said here is supported by fact just your unsubstantiated idea that you and white people are being attacked for being white. You even went as far to make the outlandish claim that I i.e. black people want to rule you i.e. white people and treat white people in the way that my ancestors were. Really? You don’t even realize that this is another irrational fear often spoke of by people like you fearing retribution from the perceived unruly minority for a past that you keep screaming out that you are not responsible. Funny… this is a shared viewed of white supremacists.

Who’s playing the victim now “Persecuted?” “Persecuted” what a name lol…. Bwahahaha… the irony.

First, Baratunde is not reading this thread. Again, he has Jack and Jill Politics and The Onion… he is not here reading your foolishness. Second, how is telling someone that what they are saying doesn’t make a difference in any way helpful. I mean really you don’t make any sense.

Why should I have to read more of your nonsensical invectives? Unfortunately, I read the whole of your other statements and after the first two lines of that one I knew that statement would be more idiocy from the previous. Oh please… Now I am just like a Republican… another asinine statement. When is the last time a Republican has vehemently spoke out against inequality and spent time trying to explain to people like you that your perception of black people is wrong. Don’t worry… I’ll wait; another foolish leap in logic. Again, you do not make any sense. You don’t know what you’re talking about but you insist that you do. You insist on giving so-called ‘help’ to a group of people you clearly no nothing about.

theres nothing about me thats typical... you just want to judge me... so how are you any better than the white people who judge you? the end...

i displayed anger because you called me dismissive and condescending and that was not at all my intent. you read my comment with aggression and responded with aggression and i responded in kind. you still think i was trying to say something mean and i wasnt. maybe if you go back and read the first, original post that i wrote to you (thinking you were the guy in the video) and read it with a different tone... read it with a tone of "i agree with you" and you might understand why you reacting in such a violent way angered me.

i wasnt giving help to a group of people... i was telling the guy in the video that i agree with him but he shouldnt waste his breath on idiots who wont change their minds no matter what he says... if you would just open your eyes and read it with a different tone, you would see that it was support, not an attack... and i didnt say anything about you being a republican or comparing you to one

another judgement from the choir... boy you sure do know a lot about my life considering this is the first time we've ever spoken.... or are you stereotyping me by my race? i think its the latter... its totally ok for black people to blast white people and we just bow our heads and take it... i like people... color doesnt matter one bit to me... but it obviously means a great deal to you... and maybe we should switch names, because clearly you're the one whos persecuted

“…i didnt say anything about you being a republican or comparing you to one…”

Do you have Alzheimer’s?

“…you're just like a republican, you read what you wanna read, you know what you wanna know, and you ignore the rest...”

This is the problem when people lie… they can’t keep up with their story.

Next,

The man, Baratunde Thurston, does not need your help. If he ever needs help, he would not seek it from you. For one, you called him an angry bitter black man and said that what he was doing and saying does not make a difference. You say this and still don’t realize that this is dismissive and condescending. So how in the world can you claim that this is helpful?

“you ARE angry... i watched your video... there is OBVIOUS ANGER there…”

“…because you ARE an angry bitter black man…”

“what you just said didnt make a damn bit of difference to them...”

“…your speech to move us makes no difference because we were never against you in the first place…”

“…I wasnt around back then, and i didnt do shit to you or your family members, or your ancestors. and you know what else? not everybody owned a slave.”
*I never said anything about slavery so…

“i dont hate you because a black man raped me…”
*Talking about your alleged rape by a black man has nothing to do with this discussion.

If you think this is helpful… something is wrong.

You think you are being judged and “Persecuted” because you are mentally unstable. If I attacked anything it was your logic and erroneous perception but somehow you deliberately or due to that mental instability… interpreted my comments as personal attacks. I should have ended the conversation when you said, “I dont hate you because a black man raped me…” Had I realized this injection into the conversation sooner I could have saved myself a lot of time. For one, your alleged rape by a black man has nothing to do with this discussion and why you thought that introducing this into the conversation was appropriate or warranted is beyond me.

I suggest you get counseling. Clearly, you need it.

Really? I responded in a violent and angry way? This also speaks to your mental instability. If you thought that my comments were violent and angry… you have a problem with interpreting reality. Again, I suggest you get counseling.

Damn OrchidBlack you are on Fire!!! =)

Thank you, KB! I am trying really hard here but this person just refuses to see their errors in logic. Goodness gracious.

No Worries from me... Hey I just posted another article... Maybe you can take a breather, stand by for a personal message... =)

well said! Although I will say that as a poor white man I have no illusions about how much harder it is for people of color and other minorities in this country.

Welcome!

ugh

That's exactly what I said....

The only problem with that is that education is systematically cut from the African American community that has to preside in the ghetto's. I live in Chicago, and these ghetto's are called 'Food Deserts' because there isn't a Food store for 5-10 miles around.

If they wont even put a food store in these places, what makes us think that they would even care about what education these kids get?

It is a big hill we have to climb if we want to get real about it.

"No matter what I say about racism, or my views on it, because I'm white, people will call me a racist."

You're a white person, so you benefit from racism. That doesn't make you racist, that makes you a white person who benefits from racism. It's called being privileged, not being racist. However, if you decide to do or say something that actually is racist, you'll be called out on that.

If it's any consolation, I think that every single existing person in society is racist to a certain degree. I accept that I, too, have racial prejudice. But I can choose to act against racism, against the prejudices I've been raised with. And that, in my opinion, is what makes me not a racist.

Thank you for asking this difficult question. I will try my best to answer it. In my opinion, your nationality is African and in terms of culture and experience you are White. I can understand Black Africans refusal to accept White Africans of the continent as truly African given the history of colonialism and the continued inequalities that Black Africans suffer.

Having said that, you must understand that traditionally, land, culture, ancestral lines, and experience played equal roles in establishing a shared identity and that was passed on through the generations. These variables appear to be necessary for an established shared common African identity. In a way, Africans believe that their ancestors are and of the Earth. Their beliefs inform them that they should live off of the Earth. Many of the customs of Africans tie in some way to the land. So any severance of a connection that Africans have to land that many have had for decades and even hundreds of years alters their identity and millions of Africans have been displaced. This severance changes their relationship with their ancestors, it alters their customs; it changes their socio-economic status and access to sustenance. This severance affects so much more than I can even begin to touch on.

In many countries in Africa, the indigenous people are still being displaced and forced to live in shambles while many white landowners come in and purchase their land. Land that these Africans have a spiritual, cultural, emotional, and economic connection to. Land that their ancestors protect and land that their Gods and Deities have entrusted to them. Understanding the complex significance of land in African identity is important and in part explains why many do not accept White Africans as truly African in many areas.

Wow very neat reply! Makes sense. It's not always easy to live in an integrated society but it is possible if there's mutual respect for each other's cultures and believes. Probably wont happen overnight, but "I'm gonna be the change I want to see in the world" (Ghandi)

Thank you for posting that challenging question. I enjoyed that challenge. Are there any reconciliation programs in your town?

The names change, but the story remains the same. You can insert Native Americans to your comment in every place that you have Africans and the story would be the same. The people did not own the land. They were caretakers, and they respected the land. When the Europeans came to the Americas, they attempted to destroy that connection by severing the connection the native peoples had with the land. Same story all over the globe. First they come, they conquer, they destroy.

You are welcome. Thanks for posting the Trump vid. Current has been acting up for me on this post.

"Though the president didn't mention Trump by name . . . "

I thought 'Carnival Barker' was a close proximity to his name though.

You are very welcome. I am glad that you enjoyed this post and understood the significance. I will try to continue to post on sensitive topics that are often neglected in the forum.

For just about every social issue I can think of, there is a Star Trek example lol. Climate change, race, class, elitism, anger, transgender acceptance… I can just go on.

you know it just does set a lot of good examples.

Hooray for trekkies!

There aren’t any references to a “OrchardBlack” in any part of Black Orchid by Neil Gaiman… Is that the revisionist version?

unconscious

: )!!!

I heard a Sandman movie is in the works. I don’t know how I feel about that.

Does this mean U R not a trekkie fan?

So racism still exists because of the so-called hatred that Black people have for White people? It has nothing at all to do with the social and economic policies that adversely affect them regardless of class.

And now according to you and your dubious sources, black people now want to be called “Urban Americans,” despite the census data demonstrating that 58% of African American city dwellers moved to the suburbs in the South; the region where most Black people are located. I have never heard any African American request to be called an “urban American,” not once… this is false news too me.

Finally, posting an article about Black people returning to Africa is NOT at all relevant to this discussion. However, your intention here is duly noted.

Thanks, you've just made the point better than done in the video.

Yes... I forgot. Every black person who has ever existed in America came from Africa! Dammit, OrchidBlack, you didn't remind me of this! I am so unprepared for this astoundingly logical debate.

bwahahahahahaha

I agree. In my experience, this is true. Those with the gold rule. Even in the hay day of the USSR the ones with the most ruled, had the best food, drink, what have you..and got away with a lot.

If this is really a case for the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ then please explain why wealthy black people are still faced with racism. Please explain to me why black patrons from the Harvard and Yale elite were kicked out of their own paid for party in Boston? Please explain to me why very few black professors are granted tenure in higher education… especially in the sciences. Please explain to me why white neighbors often move from their neighborhoods when middle to upper class black families start to move in. Please explain to me why there are very few black CEO’s of Fortune 500 companies; despite the abundance of impeccably educated and experienced black businessmen and woman? Please explain to me why it is so hard for black men and women in law enforcement and the military to advance to higher-ranking positions. There are very few who hold top high-ranking positions. Please explain to me why affluent black people are still denied entry into certain elite social and sports clubs in America… even though they fall into the right class and tax bracket? Please explain to me why black people are more often than not under constant watch at the most expensive places to shop… even when they have purchased items at the store previously.

If this were really a case of the ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots,’ explain all of this too me…

Your response is rather predictable and marred in erroneous premises. I will focus only on the major issues here.

“After all whites represent 78% of the U.S. but only 9% of the NBA. Should whites then decry the NBA as racist and demand equal representation?”

-Really? A flawed basketball example… Really? Following your logic, the implication here is that black men are inherently better at sports (and in this case basketball) hence the overwhelming representation of them in the NBA and thus white people are better at business hence the reason for their overwhelming representation as CEO’s of Fortune 500s. You even went as far to report the low percentage of whites in the NBA thereby implying that they are not inherently talented and this explains their low frequency. Are you not aware of the history of the NBA? If I am not mistaken, the NBA was all white up until the first NBA player Earl Lloyd and the only reason why he initially got playing time was to due to a scheduling mishap. Following your logic, the lack of black players in the early days of the NBA was due to the inherent and superior athletic prowess of the white players and thus explains the lack of black players. You should have ruminated a bit longer on this example.

Next, I stated that black professors hardly ever get tenure in the sciences. The following study indicates that black people and other minorities are not only underrepresented in colleges and universities but the few that are often do not get tenure despite the fact that there has been a great and steady increase in their PhD attainment.

Also, the posted situation at DePaul is a standard practice at many colleges and universities across America.

http://cheminfo.ou.edu/~djn/diversity/faculty_tables_fy07/07report.pdf

http://m.insidehighered.com/layout/set/dialog/news/2011/01/04/minority_faculty_c...

“No matter what your race is if you are from a POOR neighborhood you are much less likely to get an academic scholorship to go to an Ivy league school than if you are from a rich neighborhood even with a better GPA than the rich kid.”

-Here you assume that these professors are coming from poor neighborhoods. That is not always or generally the case NOR does your GPA have anything to do with tenure. You do understand that a committee determines tenure? They make this decision based off of your scholarly work and contribution to the university as well as many other variables.