Community | April 29, 2011 | 48 comments

Are we at war, or not?

source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dwOux5_o1E

asherp
Are we at war -- or not?
The reason I ask this is this:

If we are at war, then there must be a pretty good fucking reason that we’re at war. We must be facing an existential threat so large, so well-organized, and so powerful, that it could wipe our entire nation off the map in an instant. If that is the case, then surely, we must be at war. War is something reserved only for the most extreme situations. War is our Tool of last resort. Because we’re America, and we’re a peace-loving nation.

And so, if this threat we’re facing is so massive, and so threatening, then we better get all hands on deck. We need to institute a draft and be at war for real. We need to tax all income at 90% and fund this thing and get it over with. We need every man, woman, and child to be part of the war effort. We need to institute rationing: No more coffee, no more sugar, donate your steel appliances to the war effort, grow a victory garden. Let’s be all in! Let’s win this thing!

But wait-- we’re not facing down any threat like that. There’s no invading army perched on our border. We’re facing down kids throwing rocks, and disgruntled teenagers with no economic future building bombs in their own backyards, who are a far greater threat to our soldiers stationed there, than to our national security.

Less than 1% of Americans serve in the military, and it’s not fair that we should be asking them alone to shoulder the burden of fighting our wars of convenience. Wars that are the pet projects of pencil pushers in DC, with abstract foreign policy agendas.

Some people complain about the constitutionality of these wars-- and they aren’t wars. But I actually don’t really care about the constitutionality of it. That to me, seems like an academic exercise in the face of the fact that people are dying for no goddamned reason.

Yes, while people bicker about the legality (which is important), back in the real world there are people dying for no goddamned reason (which is more important).

I work with so many women whose husbands are serving right now, who are on their umpteenth deployment, who haven’t been around to see their kids grow up. We, the 99% who do not serve, are far too willing to throw other people’s families through meat grinders. We are too willing to let 1% of the population bear all the burdens-- the heartache, the worry, the lost time with their family that they will never get back, the lost limbs, the vivid nightmares that never go away-- while we talk in the abstract about "Supporting the Troops." It's not fucking fair.

So-- are we at war or not? If we are-- let’s institute a draft and be at war for real. If we’re not at war then BRING THEM HOME.
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48 comments // Are we at war, or not? // Video

  • remanns
  • mybologna
    • 0
      mybologna  

    • I do agree that if the draft is reinstated the people of the United States would organize against the current wars of choice. Why should we be fighting the wars for the oil companies that are poluting the earth and profiteering from such conflicts?
      The reason why many Americans do not believe in government as a positive influence in their lives is because such a big chunk of it goes to wars that do not advance their interest. If the money collected in taxes by the US were used for a strong safety net instead of on wasteful war spending like they do in most European countries I believe more people would defend the role of government and the importance of proper taxation.

    • 1 year ago
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • 0
      PoliticalAmazon  

    • Do you have a reference for this statement: "We, the 99% who do not serve, are far too willing to throw other people’s families through meat grinders" ?

      I'm just interested to see the rest of the data that was in the poll.

      Whatever the percentage split was, it's clear that, as a nation, America has decided that a certain percentage of young, usually rural, not highly educated, often minority Americans are disposable...use them and throw them away.

      I don't happen to agree with that practice, and have fought like a banshee against the drumbeat of war since I can remember.

      i don't care whether it is a GOP or Democrat president who is shoving our young, poor, minority Americans into the military-industrial-complex's meat-grinder called "war." I criticize all parties, and with equal force.

    • 1 year ago
  • Prijedor
  • JonRaymond
    • 0
      JonRaymond  

    • Eh, I think you're living in the past. War (or whatever you prefer to call it) is a tool of the American corporate oligarchy to perpetuate profit. While, I agree with you, simply crying out BRING THEM HOME, is an exercise in futility. Who has the power to bring them home? No one who pays attention to anyone who isn't lining their pockets with corporate profits. If you want to effect any real change and stop war, what you have to do is REVOLT.

      Stop using gas and oil, stop using banks. Vote with your wallet. Now you may think that's absurd. You have to use banks and you have to drive a car. But, do you have to have a direct deposit that dumps all your money into the banks? I know it's cumbersome and inconvenient to cash a check and pay for things with cash or money orders, but it is that way because the corporate oligarchy made it that way. They want it to be super convenient for you to dump your paycheck into their banks every week. Then if you want to withdraw any of their money (possession is 9/10s of the law and they possess your money) you have to follow the banks' rules. You can only withdraw a certain limited amount at a time.

      How about driving? Can you cut that down a bit perhaps? Commute on a train or a bus? If everyone cut back on using banks, credit and cars, we could have the corporate oligarchy by the balls, and that is what you should be bitching about, because this country is as it is because we the collective people accept it as it is.

    • 1 year ago
  • EmileZ
  • WagonMaster
    • +2
      WagonMaster  

    • The Korean "War" was actually a "Police Action" under the auspices of the UN. Vietnam was actually an assistance ot the corrupt SVN govt, under the SEATO Charter. Afghanistan and Iraq are not actually wars...none of the USAs' military involvements since 1942 have been wars as defined, but there sure as hell been a lot of our people killed or maimed in the name of whatever flavor is popular at the time and this is totally wrong. "War" and the gear to fight it is the national product of the USA and has been for a long time. Seems like if there is nothing going, we create a "war" somewhere. It's not only good for the GNP, but distracts the citizenry from our national social and economic problems. Makes control a hellova lot easier.

    • 1 year ago
  • gypsysailor
    • +3
      gypsysailor  

    • I agree with everything you have said except that this is a peace loving nation. No sir it is not. This country runs on hate and bitterness and the only reason we are not considered a 3rd world nation is because we have nukes and aircraft carriers.

    • 1 year ago
  • Vierotchka
  • Saladin
    • +1
      Saladin  
    • Vierotchka:

      Americans are schizophrenic about war.

      So long as they don't have to be involved, they support war 100%, even if it's stupid.

      The second they start to fight and die though, U.S. citizens are very much anti-war. Nearly every war in American history citizens have actually had to fight was heavily protested and unpopular.

    • 1 year ago
  • Prijedor
  • Jeremy_Benson
    • +1
      Jeremy_Benson  

    • "But I actually don’t really care about the constitutionality of it. That to me, seems like an academic exercise in the face of the fact that people are dying for no goddamned reason.

      Yes, while people bicker about the legality (which is important), back in the real world there are people dying for no goddamned reason (which is more important)."

      I think these are important lines to consider. Why do we have laws? To ensure that the rights of others are not infringed on. Now I've heard the quote "One cannot legislate morality." In the case of things like abortion that holds true. I have my own opinions, but I don't claim moral superiority and think such things should be arbitrated at the state level. But in general this quote is false. Laws in general are supposed to enforce fairness and "what is right" and by that extension enforce a moral code of conduct for people to act by, and be punished if they don't.

      But today? I think morality and the law have been separated. And I think that's a travesty.

    • 1 year ago
  • Saladin
    • +1
      Saladin  
    • Jeremy_Benson:

      That's because you're American, and like all good Americans we respect rule of law.

      But the bottom line is that it's bullshit. What's really happening to people is ALWAYS more important than the code we use to protect those people.

    • 1 year ago
  • Jeremy_Benson
    • 0
      Jeremy_Benson  
    • Saladin:

      Haha, from bootleggers to the underground railroad to marijuana I would say Americans have a long standing tradition of breaking laws. ^_^

      I don't necessarily disagree with your second statement. It should come as no surprise to anyone that such a rigid structure as law is slow to respond to societal changes and often doesn't represent the accompanied needs those changes represent. But law should - and now this is my opinion - at least *attempt* to reflect the morality of the people and to protect them. It is this lack of attempt in lieu of favoring immoral and questionable practices for personal gain that I was attempting to outline. The other option is absence of laws and regulations, i.e. anarchy, which I do not at this time view as a viable option.

    • 1 year ago
  • artemis6
    • +2
      artemis6  

    • Thanks again , for speaking that has been in many hearts since this whole thing started . If they would show commentary like this on FOX "news?" it might get people thinking about the young soldiers , the flower of our youth , we are throwing away for the wealthy to get more rich !

    • 1 year ago
  • Leen61
    • +4
      Leen61  

    • Excellent post and it's the truth! I loved the flag amd the video. The guy made great points. I want all the troops to come home too and end these damn senseless wars. The sad reality is this country wants to be in perpetual war because it makes money. Think 1984. "War is Peace." Sad but true.

    • 1 year ago
  • Persecuted
  • Buddha2112
  • Jeremy_Benson
    • +2
      Jeremy_Benson  
    • Buddha2112:

      Mmm, while our own reasons and motivations may have been suspect - and that's a heavy 'may' - I think the threat of a racially motivated madman attempting and succeeding at taking over the world was a pretty damned good reason...

    • 1 year ago
  • Persecuted
    • +2
      Persecuted  
    • Buddha2112:

      well i dont know... the senseless act of bombing pearl harbor was enough for us to go to war, i feel we should have stepped in years before that to stop hitler, we stayed out of it for a very long time

    • 1 year ago
  • uShine
  • Buddha2112
    • 0
      Buddha2112  
    • Persecuted:

      the senseless bombing of pearl harbor... that we knew was coming. I blame FDR more than the Japs for that. Its the same kind of fuck up by the US as in 9/11. We failed to act on crucial intelligence and went to war as a result.

    • 1 year ago
  • Buddha2112
    • 0
      Buddha2112  
    • uShine:

      We were never really neutral, we were supplying the Allies for quite a while but it was kept hush hush. I don't believe hitler would have developed the bomb, the Ruskies were closing in quite fast and more responsible for removing hitler than anyone else. Not the US.

      I'm not trying to say that the US didn't do anything, I'm proud of what our soldiers accomplished and liberated, but our whole involvement started with some shady business that got even shadier.

      Hooray for removing a dictator though right? Kinda like Saddam? or our failed attempts in Vietnam?

      War = Money, the US never really cared about the jews (we knew about the camps long before even entering the war) or really about Hitler. But! it was a damn good way to get the country riled up and into the war effort.

    • 1 year ago
  • Buddha2112
  • asocial
  • Buddha2112
    • 0
      Buddha2112  
    • asocial:

      Correct, that's basically what i meant. I meant failed to act, assuming the duties of REAL Americans is to protect it's people, and its military bases. It's the same deal with the Lusitania.

    • 1 year ago
  • Jeremy_Benson
  • Jeremy_Benson
    • 0
      Jeremy_Benson  
    • Buddha2112:

      By 'the Ruskies were closing in quite fast' do you actually mean 'fleeing in terror and burning their own croplands'? Because I think we're forgetting the importance of chronology, here.

    • 1 year ago
  • uShine
  • Buddha2112
  • Buddha2112
    • 0
      Buddha2112  
    • Jeremy_Benson:

      Maybe in the beginning but once the winter fucked the nazis over, and enough russians went through the meat grinder, it was only a matter of time before berlin fell, with or with out the US.

    • 1 year ago
  • Buddha2112
    • 0
      Buddha2112  
    • uShine:

      It's not may have known, it's history, there's nothing to agree or disagree with, lol. There are some differances between saddam and hitler, in that, hitler was bent on 1000year reign of the third reich, while saddam just held off his little dirt pile in Iraq eatin up some kurds for fun.

      Back then they were Japs, its like callin nazi's krouts. Get over yourself, the only thing that makes words derogatory are the people that let it affect them.

    • 1 year ago
  • uShine
  • Buddha2112
  • Jeremy_Benson
    • 0
      Jeremy_Benson  
    • Buddha2112:

      Well, if you ask me, you're stating with certainty something that you could never know. Since, you know, other stuff happened instead. And since that's what you're basing your premise on, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this, unless you care to put forth some material to change my mind.

    • 1 year ago
  • onemalefla
  • artemis6
  • Persecuted
  • ThatCrazyLibertarian
  • mickyjon420
  • artemis6
  • thedirtman
    • +2
      thedirtman  

    • I agree. I think. Which war are we talking about? The ones the Republicans started are facing down kids throwing rocks, but the one the Democrats joined has the disgruntled kids throwing rocks on our side - done at 1 % the cost.

      Wars that serve corporations without taxing them is just plain shit. I have problems accepting this, and I think others do too. It makes it difficult to accept anybody's word who claims we are living in a just society. We don't have money for their wars, much less the life and limbs.

      I guess that's it basically. America is a marionette controlled by multi-national corporations. The corporations pull the strings and our troops pay with their lives while we pay with our taxes.

    • 1 year ago
  • Jeremy_Benson
    • +2
      Jeremy_Benson  
    • thedirtman:

      The only reason we went into Libya is, as stated by General Petraeus, "Libya is not of national concern, but it is to France and other Mediterranean states who helped us in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they requested our assistance." Make no mistake: this is not about morality or aiding a burgeoning democracy, this is about oil. Just not for America. The rest of the kids throwing rocks are on their own; they are unfortunate enough to be rebelling in states that aren't oil rich enough or against those dictators we have deemed allies.

    • 1 year ago
  • a619ko
  • simplecj
    • +2
      simplecj  

    • Agreed, BRING THEM HOME!!!

      Stop cutting education, healthcare and securities for the elderly. All we have to do is bring our troops home and stop wasting billions every day on stuff that isn't a direct threat. ... oh and end the Bush tax cuts, that will help alot too...

    • 1 year ago
  • Richard_Wyatt
  • letsliveinpeace
  • Persecuted
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