3 Fatal Flaws in Ayn Rand's Perverse 'Moral Philosophy'
source: http://www.alternet.org/story/150971/3_fatal_flaws_in_ayn_rand%27s_perverse_%27moral_philoso...
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- Almibry
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http://www.alternet.org/story/150971/3_fatal_flaws_in_ayn_rand%27s_pe...
Ayn Rand lived in a world of fiction, and it shows in her social analysis.May 17, 2011 |
It is astonishing that a 54-year-old book, based upon three patently false premises, has suddenly been resurrected. The Chair of the House Budget Committee requires his staff to read Atlas Shrugged. On April 19, 2011 it ranked 17th on Amazon’s list of best sellers. It is said to be a favorite among Tea Party activists. It’s even been made into an independent movie, albeit omitting some of the steamier sex – one woman and three men?
The first error is the assertion that we humans, at least the best of us, are autonomous individuals who have no need for other human beings other than as useful tools. The second error is to perpetuate the libertarian idea that no social goal justifies “forcing” an individual to be a resource for others. In other words, taxation is theft from “producers” to benefit “parasites.” The third error is that markets are “free” in the sense of operating best without any rules or regulation.
Humans Are Social Creatures
It is easy to counter the argument that humans are autonomous, isolated entities with no need for relationships with other humans. To the contrary, we are, and always have been, social creatures, reliant on others for our lives, our development and our survival. When our species started to evolve in Africa, about 300,000 years ago, the world was filled with predators that had sharper teeth, stronger claws, could run faster and overall physically outmatch our tiny, hairy ancestors. The question is, how did our predecessors survive and procreate allowing me to write this essay and you to read it?
If we observe herds of, say, antelope today, we observe that predators go after the slowest and weakest member of the herd, who quickly becomes a meal. Antelopes survive because they procreate rapidly, and the loss of a single animal does not threaten the herd.
Humans, however, take considerably longer to bear a child, and that child requires considerable care over several years in order to survive. It is obvious that a pregnant female would, in the later stages of gestation, be the slowest member of the herd. Later her infant or toddler would also be slow and neither mother nor child would long survive without the support of a family or clan. Thus humans would not have survived as a species had they not been able to cooperate with each other and to form and maintain social groups. Humans had to evolve as social animals.
As social animals we needed (and still need) a way that allows us to function as productive members of a social group. Without such a method, the species will fail. This is true of all social species. For example, the social insects have specific complex chemicals that allow individual insects to function as productive members of a very coherent social group (beehive or ant colony). These chemicals are their operating methodology.
To function as a productive member of a human social group, we rely on six core values that bind human beings one to another. Based on our evolutionary development, all people, societies and organizations actually share the same set of core values. You can argue if these are the “real” core values, but these six appear to encompass what is necessary for the continuing existence of human social groups. Each of these can be thought of as being on a scale from positive to negative. Behavior at the positive end of the scale strengthens the social group; behavior at the negative end weakens, and eventually will destroy it.
Most of a member’s behavior must be at the positive end of the scale in order for him or her to be accepted and relied upon by others. Without such positive reliable behavior social groups must fail. The following table shows the core values on which all societies are based according to research conducted with Ian Macdonald and Karl Stewart in the U.S., England, Australia, South Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Denmark.
[...Continued at link]
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- Vierotchka
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GRC54
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Not until I came here did I ever hear about this ugly looking bitch,(no offense to the ladies here on Current) If she lived in a "world of fiction", then we all know the rest of the right wing of the political spectrum is right now living in a "world of fiction".
The sad part about this is that we the masses cannot take any more of the laws that the right are trying to shove down our throats.
The ray gun "kill the beast" idea must be put to rest and fast or we are all doomed to suffer. - 2 years ago
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GRC54
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mitekillem
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it's amazing how the views differ between groups on the rich and the poor, the government and taxation, etc.
The left typically views themselves as the guardians and care-takers of those who cannot do for themselves, i.e. the poor and the elderly.
The right views themselves as a governing body separate of society. "Society can take care of itself." "The Markets can take care of themselves" "Those who cannot do for themselves are parasites, and should stop being lazy." They feel that society functions better when everyone is an individual, and only helps themselves. Make your own food, have your own business, be your own doctor, etc. This ideology worked great when we were hunter/gatherers. However, as families grew, the tasks could be separated to benefit all. Not everyone in the tribe was a hunter, a farmer, a chief, and a medicine man. They were one or another.
What they need to learn is that those who cannot do for themselves, are not parasites (mostly). We have a symbiotic relationship with each other. Should we run out of poor people, then there would be no one for the rich to make money from. Should we run out of rich people, there would be no one to hire the poor.
Should the rich be allowed to control everything, they will starve the poor.
Should the poor be allowed to control everything, there will be no excess.We need each other. However we also need safe-guards to protect both sides.
That is where government steps in. We must protect the poor from being exploited by the rich...and we must protect the rich from themselves (and the wrath of the poor).
This is why and equal tax system is so important.
Yes, it is a transfer of wealth, however if those above ensured that the basic needs of their employees such as: shelter, health care, food, transportation, retirement, etc. -If those were already being met and exceeded by employers then there would be no need to transfer the wealth. Currently, they take no responsibility to anyone but to their share-holders, investors, and their own greed.If there is no one with money to buy your goods, then your goods will not sell, and your services no longer needed.
Be socially responsible. - 2 years ago
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mitekillem
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robbie2622
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What next, a cult built around Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer? How about Harry Potter! This reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology any on?
- 2 years ago
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robbie2622
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chipokae
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Being Libertarian minded does not automatically equal Ayn Rand worship.Some of her views I agree with ,some I disagree with...for instance her view on Zen ,she was completely talking out of her ass...I also find her books extremely boring and think most people buy them to put on shelves to show others they have them.Her interviews with Phil Donahue are pretty good though, especially when she talks about atheism.
- 2 years ago
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chipokae
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Peeperfy
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No Comments
- 2 years ago
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Peeperfy
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wolfhound
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Ayn Rand is a function of her personal fears, and there is no discernible intelligence in her ranting.
- 2 years ago
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wolfhound
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ThirdSection
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Julie Andrews' evil twin sure likes to wear funny hats!
- 2 years ago
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ThirdSection
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JStation
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I've been an avid Rand fan since I first discovered Anthem by recommendation from my ex. The entire libertarian philosophy is not only bass-ackwards, but impossible to maintain as the invisible hand of a driving economy would not allow the virtue of self-interest to be disabled. Adam Smith once stated that he has met no man capable of serving the needs of a nation who has not once served the needs of himself, and this stands true of all humans... We are weak when we are not invested in sustaining ourselves, and through sustaining ourselves we provide benefit into the society with passion. One meaningless cashier job after another may be your thing, but it is your way of meeting your needs and chances are you are one hell of a cashier as a result of doing a job that actually satisfies you.
Taxation is the most fickle libertarian nonsense around. Taxation is a requirement in order to facilitate the protections that even libertarians require. Without taxation, their assets would be forced out of their hands by every able man and woman they meet. Without taxation, the poor majority has no voice with which to act from, and is instead the victim always. Without taxation for protections, social economic inequality rises, quickly leading to economic collapse as fewer and fewer people are able to participate. If you don't want to pay taxes, kill yourself and make sure the remains cannot be found... The only place you can avoid taxation in the world is by being everywhere and nowhere.
And the third is just plain ridiculous. The idea that a market will regulate itself is not illogical, but a free enterprise is not what we have in this country and we will never have it. Businesses will always push the limits in an effort to acquire as much profit as humanly possible; and when their proposals land them in serious debt, at the risk of foreclosure, they will violate the rules of free enterprise and beg the same people who they fucked out of house and home to bail the company out or risk losing even the underpaid part-time employment for 600 people the company continues to offer in America. They will then revert to arguing that they have no tax responsibility and should be given additional breaks and incentives because "[they] create jobs"... Well, I haven't seen a damn job yet in my neighborhood since January 1st, and I'm running out of places to beg for money for another month. If they're so good at regulating themselves, where is the job I've spent five months, numerous phone calls, résumés and applications, e-mails, questionnaires, surveys, phone tests, drug and background check agreements, and willingness on my part to restrict or even rescind my right to use tobacco products on my own time if my employer doesn't like smokers, trying to get?
- 2 years ago
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JStation
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ThirdSection
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Parasites are beings that take from others and give nothing in return. GE made extensive use of the extensive and other public resources in the United States last year and yet paid no taxes.
Let's shrug those corporate thieves!
- 2 years ago
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ThirdSection
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August_K
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ThirdSection:
Don't forget the oil companies. They love those subsidies and according to Bernie Sanders in a speech on the Senate floor, Exxon paid zero taxes in 2009 and even got over 150 million back from the IRS. I'd love to have their accountants.
- 2 years ago
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August_K
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Incredulous
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August_K:
Big coal companies are also demolishing the mountains of West Virginia to get to the coal, and that coal is headed straight for the global market where China has driven up the price, which in turn drives up the price we pay for electricity, but don't think the citizens of West Virginia are reaping any of those increased profits from their mountains being sold off to the highest bidder, all they are getting is a destroyed environment and sicker by the day.
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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letsliveinpeace
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Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged has been among Amazon's top 20 bestsellers for much of the past year. This year she's outsold the Rev. Billy Graham, the Rev. Joel Osteen, and the Rev. Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Life combined! There's even a new Atlas Shrugged movie playing in 300 American theaters. But that's not why Democrats should be boning up on their Rand...in fact, don't waste your time with her books. Democrats should be reading what Ayn Rand has said and taught her followers.
Why? Well, for starters, as the famous general Sun Tzu said, "Know your enemy." Ayn Rand's disciples are filling the halls of power in D.C. as the Tea Party rises in the GOP ranks. Sen. Ron Johnson said Atlas Shrugged was his "foundational book." Sen. Rand Paul is not surprisingly "a fan," and Limbaugh called her "brilliant." Fox and Friends declared her movie, which Boehner watched in a private screening with Andrew Breitbart, a "victory for capitalism." Even Sp. Ct. Justice Thomas broke his vow of silence to say he "tends to be really partial to Ayn Rand." [click here for all cites].
But perhaps her greatest acolyte is Rep. Paul Ryan -- the Republican choice to address the nation following the State of the Union and author of the Republican budget -- who credits Ayn Rand as the reason he got into politics, and he requires all his staff and interns to read her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b-tIY99QFFkhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-sapp/ayn-rand-democrats_b_855797.html
- 2 years ago
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letsliveinpeace
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TasteHi
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letsliveinpeace:
Is an efficient economy one where, two parties enter a transaction and leave with expectations met? Or is it one where two parties enter a transaction and only one leaves with the full benefit?
Clearly if the second option does not benefit me I would not participate of it. That is what absolute fairness and balance is about. It is also applicable to social responsibility I can CHOOSE to go out of my way to help society because even in doing that my quality of life is better. I can also CHOOSE only to help society when I am not forced to go out of my way to do so. Or I can CHOOSE to isolate myself from that society and its problems or even attempt to form a new society.
Any way we put it the choice is ours and we do not owe anyone anything, but we can choose to contribute of our part any way we wish.
Why does that message keep getting convoluted and why do "liberals, left-wing supporters, and right wing supporters" get that message so damned wrong?
- 2 years ago
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TasteHi
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TasteHi
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She was not against democracy she was against the way it was being practiced. She felt that people have free will and the ability to reason and rationalize what is best for their own society. Therefore there is no need for an enforceable law rather the need to recognize what is necessary and the incentive to contribute to that necessity. A civilized society was to contribute to its objective necessities and that no one person had the right to beat contribution out of another person.......It's not a simple concept for most americans to grasp, but I certainly feel that politicians and lawyers have grossly abused the democratic system by choosing when it is alright to enforce the law. That is what she was warning against....that when you give one person or one collective group with their own ideals the right to choose whom is going to be punished and how they will be punished and what will be enforced and what will be overlooked it simply becomes another form of dictatorship.
She was against taxes because it is another system, and an economic system, that has no real trade value. It is forced onto you and you have no say as to what you will allow those funds to support. Just like the people that pay Child Support have no way of making sure that their children are benefiting from %100 of those funds, not to mention the government will take a not so small sum of those funds for THEMSELVES.
She was not against the ideals in whole but the way that American Citizens were allowing Gubment to take full control of the wheel regardless of whom it was hurting and would later grow to become more corrupt.
If you want to hear it from the horses mouth here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMTDaVpBPR0&feature=related - 2 years ago
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TasteHi
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tlbuffin [removed]
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tlbuffin [removed]
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timetide
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tlbuffin:
........sarcasim? I always found her sentence structure awkward.
- 2 years ago
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timetide
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eden49
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tlbuffin:
...Rand's description of Roark in The Fountainhead are just superb...
- 2 years ago
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eden49
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ThirdSection
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tlbuffin:
Is there a part where something hovers in the air exactly the way a brick wouldn't?
- 2 years ago
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ThirdSection
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CaptSutter
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tlbuffin:
It is really scary because your are right she was a fantastic writer. It is also easy to see how people become enamored with her and are convinced by her philosophy, beautiful imagery but rape fantasies always disturbed me. I think of all the DSK's and unfortunate powerless women who have suffered because the rich and famous want to emulate Ayn Rands fiction.
She was one sick puppy.
- 2 years ago
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CaptSutter
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CaptSutter
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eden49:
Yes that is the only Ayn Rand that I even close to finishing. She reminds me so much of the Goebbels approach to propaganda. The movie "Jud Suess" is really scary. because you can understand why people were moved by it, very much like Ayn Rand.
- 2 years ago
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CaptSutter
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savvy7
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"Libertarianism is a political philosophy that upholds individual liberty, especially freedom of expression and action.[1] Libertarianism includes diverse beliefs and organizations—all advocate either the minimization or the elimination of the state, and the goal of maximizing individual liberty and freedom." Wickipedia.
I read Ayn Rand in Jr. HS and was thrilled because her books suited my adolescent notions of the way the world should work (and gave me arguments to geared to convince my parents why I was ENTITLED to my own personal anarchy.) I haven't been an adolescent for a long time and my folks remained unmoved, but during the interim I've learned that if you dance to the tune, you will always have to pay the piper - one way or another.
We, Americans, demand things without really understanding what we're about to get : we demand change and vote for specimens like Rick Scott (FL) or Scott Walker(WI); we demand smaller government and scream like little bitches for the Corps of Army Engineers and FEMA for rescue when storms wash away the beach in front of our homes, or try bringing a fruitless lawsuit against the DOT when our Lexus breaks an axle in a pothole on a city street or highway.
Taxes are as big an imposition to us in America as they were in ancient Egypt; just imagine, the third oldest profession after motherhood and prostitution - tax collection. Problem is, those who pay taxes are not always those who reap the benefits. And, if you doubt this take a look at what GE and your oil companies reap in profits and what they pay in taxes. These are, as my friend Arizona_Huey put it, "libertarians of convenience". They are "fiscal conservatives" in print only, and lying robber barons in reality, grabbing as much as they can so they can buy the legislation which will make them even richer. It's our choice; We can get a country run according to the philosophy of Atlas Shrugged, the Bible or we can vote for those who will try to uphold the US Constitution?
- 2 years ago
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savvy7
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TasteHi
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savvy7:
I'm going to ask you to consider something, and before you give me an answer I want you to profoundly think of the times, and personally put yourself in that era , ready?
Do you think the civil war would have happened if everyone at the time had a T.V. in their home and unquestioningly believed what was being told to them, AND do you think Lincoln would have been able to use propaganda for the war in the same manner that it was applied "on a person to person basis"?
I ask you this because I really want you to think about what makes the following generations different from the civil war and pre-war generations.
Foot Note:
T.V. shows were all broadcast live because film had not been invented yet and there was no way of delaying the signal with the technology at the time that the market was first intro'd to black and white television.
- 2 years ago
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TasteHi
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Incredulous
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TasteHi:
hmmm, have you read "Confederates in the Attic" by Tony Horwitz? You should if you are going to posit any arguments about the Civil War. Funny and just inexplicable at times, but ironically, it seems to parallel much of the tea party sentiment currently being exploited by Ayn Rand enthusiasts.
One of my favorite quotes in the book, and there are many:
South Carolina is too small for a republic
and too large for an insane asylum
--James L. Petigru, describing his native state in 1860 - 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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savvy7
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TasteHi:
"Do you think the civil war would have happened if everyone at the time had a T.V. in their home and unquestioningly believed what was being told to them, AND do you think Lincoln would have been able to use propaganda for the war in the same manner that it was applied "on a person to person basis"?
If I understand your question correctly, you are asking whether or not I think the rapid dissemination of information (or lack of) would have had an effect on history, namely the civil war? It's a good question, but I'm not sure how it applies to the topic.
But to attempt to answer your question: Yes. The Civil War might have erupted even sooner, given footage of John Brown's raid at Harper's Ferry and subsequent hanging; given live accounts of escaped slaves experiences with "owners" brutality and interviews with the slaveholders themselves, citing biblical precedent for their "peculiar institution" and insisting on the return of their "property" as well as demanding that slavery be expanded into the newly acquired Western territories ,'or we secede!', would have been fuel enough for that conflagration even with out the 'propaganda' as you put it. Even more interesting would be to explore the possibilities of an Internet with its Underground Railroad bloggers and information they could impart and the stories they could tell.
What TV and the Internet have allowed us to do is to speed up the rate of information absorption and make decisions more rapidly than our ancestors. It has also made it more difficult for those who would manipulate us to do so, as we can, at worst quote, and at best, replay their own words. (Just ask Leroy Gingrich who originally thought what he thought about health care before he was told not to think what he thought he thought before. Confused? So was David Gregory. So is Leroy. But if you were paying attention, you're not.) And, finally, does anybody over four, with a working brain ever believe unquestioningly what is told them? I doubt it.
- 2 years ago
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savvy7
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TasteHi
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Incredulous:
I'm definitely going to look into those books now I'm aware of them, I'm not so much a civil war enthusiast but there are many interesting points across the board.
- 1 year ago
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TasteHi
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TasteHi
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savvy7:
See you come around to the same point I was trying to make, sure the media would've had a faster impact, but I also believe the war would not have ended in a union as it had nor would it have been as big or lead to the freedom of enslaved humans in the U.S..
It occurred to me to ask you this question because, I feel that her philosophy has not been objectively applied to society by ANY side or party. This is what we see in media today and I just wanted to apply that craziness to a simpler time but a much more effective time as well since the war actually yielded a direct result unto U.S. citizens and its laws on a philosophical stand point.
In my opinion the inclusion of T.V. would have lead to a quick uprising over civil rights and an even quicker redirection into fear-mongering over the nations economy, because while slave owners in the south relied on african americans for labor and opposed banning slavery. Rail Road Investors relied on exploited foreign labor and heavily financed the unions efforts. I don't see any "exploited worker" sympathizers in the history books of the period so I don't honestly think the anti-slavery supporters would have actually gone to war rather than just boy-cotting southern/eastern state goods.
I'm racing through this but I'm sure you gather the big picture from the elements, simply put exposing any information to a larger crowed always leads to interpretation in one form of another.
I do TOTALLY agree on the Underground Railroad bloggers that would add a whole new level of complexity that I'd enjoy observing myself.
I can't say I agree on a lack of control over citizens via T.V. info because in the end a lot of things can be forced into popularity via any means of propaganda, such as it happened in Germany with the Jewish which reminds me watch a documentary called "A Film Unfinished" its about an unedited film recovered from a Nazi film repository and it shows the full spectrum of the human condition as well as what is real Vs. what is seen. It is the same today only on a more global spectrum.
It also begs the question, when does one decide, now a days what is an acceptable means of control and what isn't? I think this is also what Rynd intended to challenge at the heart of her philosophies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khut0kKn-c8 - 1 year ago
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TasteHi
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Gravity_Man [removed]
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Gravity_Man [removed]
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TasteHi
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Gravity_Man:
There are some powerful groups out there that swear to never patent anything they make, rather share the information of their discoveries freely due to the evils that ensue from such practices....
- 2 years ago
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TasteHi
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Gravity_Man [removed]
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TasteHi: This comment was removed by its owner.
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Gravity_Man [removed]
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Incredulous
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TasteHi:
Open Source ...did you know that the government of Brazil went with all open source software several years ago?
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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TasteHi
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Gravity_Man:
I'm just pointing out that economy, is a much more powerful beast than any society can hope to tame.
- 1 year ago
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TasteHi
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TasteHi
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Incredulous:
No I wasn't, but I don't know how dependent Brazil is on american imports I'm guessing not much since they've made some amazing strides in most fields of technology. It doesn't surprise me at all that they've chosen to remain independent of foreign software influences as well. It's a shame the U.S. takes so damned long to catch up....
- 1 year ago
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TasteHi
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Leen61
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This is the Reps idol. They follow this bitch like she is some noted economist. Rand isn't. I've read enough articles about her and the bottom line is she thought the rich should inherit the earth. The Reps I clean for read "Atlas Shrugged." They read this because they want to justify their attitudes of superiority. Paul Ryan is a Ayn Rand disciple. Colbert showed a segment of an interview Rand did with Mike Wallace. Like Scott Walker, her eyes looked everywhere but at Mike Wallace. Why do you think Rand Paul's first name IS Rand? Nuff said.
- 2 years ago
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Leen61
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TasteHi
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Leen61:
You have been reading ABOUT her....her concepts are above some people and it leads to lots of misinterpretation. She did not admire the wealthy, that is a misconception.
- 2 years ago
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TasteHi
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Leen61
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TasteHi:
I beg to differ.
- 2 years ago
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Leen61
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TasteHi
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Leen61:
nope, no need to beg :)
- 1 year ago
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TasteHi
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good_stuff
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You can't argue theories based on natural selection to extreme right wingers. They beleive in creationism and divine fate.
That said, I've always thought it interesting that the Right-wingers takes libertarianism to such extremes considering the fact that they don't usually beleive in evolution through natural selection. I can see the arguement that we are weakening the human gene pool since the worst people seem to have the most children, but they don't beleive that either. Either the laws of individual superiority work best left alone or they need to be tweaked . People need to make up their mind.
- 2 years ago
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good_stuff
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Almibry
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good_stuff:
Excellent point. +^'d
- 2 years ago
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Almibry
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Arizona_Huey
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good_stuff:
If they actually believed in libertarianism - they wouldn't be trying to insert themselves into some many different places in our lives!!! They are libertarians of convenience, when it serves their point of view. I'm still baffled why they are also still tagged as fiscally responsible!
- 2 years ago
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Arizona_Huey
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Milieu
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good_stuff:
You're using that "Magic" called logic, not fair.
- 2 years ago
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Milieu
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Incredulous
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good_stuff:
Right-wingers don't believe in evolution through natural selecting, they prefer the biblical terminology "predestination" a perverted point of view which makes them special because God said so...reminds me of a lot of the spoiled college kids who have been raised to believe they are gifted and entitled because "daddy said so" and the educational system backed daddy up.
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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savvy7
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good_stuff:
"I can see the arguement that we are weakening the human gene pool since the worst people seem to have the most children, but they don't beleive that either..."
Maybe it's just cause I'm leery of generalities, but Catholic families and Orthodox Jews have a hell of a lot of kids. It's in their contract. Does that mean they're automatically the worst people? Is that how you tell? I only have two. Shouldn't I at least get a tax break?
- 2 years ago
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savvy7
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gypsysailor
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Isn't it nice to know that the TeaParty is based on a work of fiction. Just like Scientology is based on books by L. Ron Hubbard.
- 2 years ago
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gypsysailor
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letsliveinpeace
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Good article!
- 2 years ago
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letsliveinpeace
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figgdimension
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I will spit on her grave too... nice post hope it ages better than Ayn...
- 2 years ago
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figgdimension
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Almibry
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figgdimension:
So I'll be the big person who pees on her grave (it's a hobby).
- 2 years ago
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Almibry
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Incredulous
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figgdimension:
Uhhh, that picture is Leona Helmsley, left 12 million to her dog, also made the infamous comment that "only the little people pay taxes"....but I guess you could argue that she and Rand were kindred spirits -- of a sort.
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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Earl_of_Edmonds
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it has been my experience in my 41 years that most of this Cult's followers are NOT self-employeed but work for others.
and the ironic part of it is that they fail to see that fallacy in their life style.
she also equated democracy to a dictatorship.
- 2 years ago
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Earl_of_Edmonds
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VFORVENDETTA
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Christ she looks scary, if that would've been my mom, I would've had a lot of explaining to do to the other kids!
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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ampersand
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VFORVENDETTA:
V,
What's really weird (and I mention this only in strictest confidence) is that she looks JUST EXACTLY like MY mother in that picture.
(Must be the period outfit--common to women intellectuals of the fifties, I guess.)
Frankly, I don't know how I turned out so sweet and easy-going. - 2 years ago
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ampersand
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VFORVENDETTA
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ampersand:
Ok, nice to see you again!
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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Vierotchka
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Good find, thanks.
- 2 years ago
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Vierotchka
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VFORVENDETTA
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Excellent post Almibry, voted up! You have forgotten a subsection of humanity however, sociopaths, which encompass most conservatives, and Wall Street "businessman", who habitually act in one interest, themselves.
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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iowawashington
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Libertarian philosophy is very attractive to the elite. They don't need any of the support systems that taxation and government are intended to create, so they belittle the importance of the institutions.
Find me a poor, minority libertarian, and I'll show you a complete idiot.
- 2 years ago
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iowawashington
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VFORVENDETTA
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iowawashington:
Truly insightful and God damned funny! voted up!
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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Almibry
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iowawashington:
They DO need the system: they use roads (socialized) to deliver goods, they get subsidies and bailouts on demand (socialized) not to mention the fact that a good portion of their employees need foodstamps to survive (socialized) and medicare (socialized [do you know how hard it is to find decent help these days?]) not to mention copyright and intellectual property laws (written by GOVERNMENT employees) to protect their goods, and more government employees (i.e. soldiers) to protect their interests abroad and at home and so on and so forth...
- 2 years ago
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Almibry
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iowawashington
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Almibry:
Almibry, you are absolutely correct. But that doesn't mean they believe you.
- 2 years ago
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iowawashington
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iowawashington
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VFORVENDETTA:
Thank you!
- 2 years ago
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iowawashington
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ampersand
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Almibry:
Perfectly put, Almibry.
Your very clear list should, by all rights, help to instantly clarify the yawning chasm between rhetoric and reality with Ayn Rand "libertarians."
That, repeated daily, and an added short slap along the side of the head, might do some good to many confused souls in this country. - 2 years ago
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ampersand
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VFORVENDETTA
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ampersand:
I especially like the slap along the side of the head part, Mitch McConnell comes to mind.
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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tlbuffin [removed]
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VFORVENDETTA: This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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tlbuffin [removed]
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Milieu
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iowawashington:
Find me ANY libertarian and I'll show you a Perfect Idiot.
- 2 years ago
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Milieu
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Milieu
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tlbuffin:
How to persuade a stubborn mule:
1) find a handy two-by-four - 2 years ago
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Milieu
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ghostofamerica
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taxes are robbery
- 2 years ago
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ghostofamerica
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VFORVENDETTA
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ghostofamerica:
So is the military-industrial complex.
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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Almibry
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VFORVENDETTA:
And the military-industrial complex doubles as rape! How lucky are we?
- 2 years ago
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Almibry
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VFORVENDETTA
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Almibry:
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, yes, good point!
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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iowawashington
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ghostofamerica:
Taxes are not robbery. You can leave whenever you want, and take all your money with you. Just don't come back unless you want to a) pay your share, or b) go to prison. You get to pick! Isn't that a great system?
- 2 years ago
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iowawashington
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Milieu
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ghostofamerica:
I hear Somalia is looking for immigrants
- 2 years ago
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Milieu
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michail77
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Rand and the Objectivists are an interesting bunch. One thing is for sure, you can never win an argument with them. They have counter arguments prepared for every attack on their philosophy that they can repeat by memory. The irony is they are all about the individualism but they act like a cult with a singular mind.
Though as a literary work it has some points to be made if taken as hyperbole -- though that wasn't Rand's intention.
- 2 years ago
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michail77
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VFORVENDETTA
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michail77:
The same parallel can be drawn with any religious person (fundamentalist) reason can never make headway into any circular argument. nice post, voted up!
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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lazloman
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You can break down the flaws in her arguments anyway you like, but the author sums it up in the first sentence:
"Ayn Rand lived in a world of fiction..."'nuf sed
- 2 years ago
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lazloman
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onemalefla [removed]
- This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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onemalefla [removed]
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VFORVENDETTA
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onemalefla:
Apparently the force of the dark side is trying to convert you to be a Sith, fight it my friend, fight it!
- 2 years ago
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VFORVENDETTA
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jahbini
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Excellent analysis in this article. Thanks for posting it Almibry!
- 2 years ago
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jahbini
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Milieu
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"Rand puts forward the libertarian principle that no social purpose justifies forcing an individual to be a resource for another. In other words, taxation for the public good is wrong. There is no recognition that her heroes in Atlas Shrugged are rich and powerful and thus are able to dictate the terms on which others work for them; in other words they can “force” their workers to become a resource for them. Thus libertarianism has, at its core, a fundamental contradiction. Coercion by government is bad; but coercion by the rich and powerful “producers” is good.
The rich and powerful also rely on society for many of the goods of civilization, which are created through the cooperative efforts of all. Despite the arguments of Rand and the libertarians none of us can opt out of our need for society and its governing institutions."
The above quote coupled with her belief that, William Edward Hickman, a mass murderer was "The Perfect Man."
I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say the Ayn Rand was INsane.
- 2 years ago
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Milieu
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Incredulous
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Milieu:
INdeed!
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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Incredulous
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Interesting read Al...but I still can't decide who has the worse taste in hats, Rand or Queen Elizabeth... +^d
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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Incredulous
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Incredulous:
oh hell, what was I thinking, it's got to be Camilla, hands down.
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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Incredulous
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Incredulous:
Ok, I promise, I'll stop after this one:
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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Vierotchka
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Incredulous:
Actually, that's quite a nice hat, and hairdo. The wearer doesn't put either to advantage, though.
- 2 years ago
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Vierotchka
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Almibry
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Incredulous:
heh Now I have the worst taste in hats... It's a good thing I never got around to buying any... Yet...
- 2 years ago
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Almibry
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tlbuffin [removed]
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Almibry: This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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tlbuffin [removed]
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Incredulous
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Vierotchka:
ok, you might be right, but I just can't see it...not enough English in my blood I guess.
I'll have to see if EdJoy has anything to say on this...she is the expert on clown porn, and I hate to say it, but these hats just kinda remind me of clown porn.
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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Incredulous
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tlbuffin:
Whoa, now that is just scary...looks like she got attacked by a can of rabid Play Dough.
- 2 years ago
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Incredulous
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letsliveinpeace
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Vierotchka:
That hat is money!
- 2 years ago
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letsliveinpeace
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Almibry
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tlbuffin:
rofl OK I give, I give... I can't beat that...
- 2 years ago
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Almibry