Just what are they hiding that CNN couldn't be allowed access to or be able to film? Whether there is any strange activity going on or not, behavior like this raises the question. What are they trying to keep the press from reporting? kenny, I know we are in the land of facism.
I would not normally take the side of the heavy handed storm troopers, but really, do you want people with cameras running around in a morgue even if they are CNN. I would not want my dead loved ones being a ratings gimmick. These cops could use a little gentler hand in dealing with the media, but I think they were right to keep them out.
Herein lies the problem with secrecy: by making the morgue a secret place that cannot be accessed by non-authorized people, you create the impression that something sinister is going on. When it would make more sense to say that they have unidentified bodies and/or body parts, that this was the worse tornado on record, and that there it is going to be a long time before the results of the confirmed dead are known.
When you start to keep the public uniformed, they create all kinds of scenarios as to what is going on, including conspiracies. I personally think that we are living in a fascist state, but this is not the situation that I would use to state my case.
We would be better to look at the interconnection between government and corporations, the courts and corporations, international banking, industrial/military complex, etc.
I am pretty sure they had no intention of snooping through the Body Bags 1 by 1. We KNOW they have misidentified at least one Corpse, so it begs to question what kind of keystone forensic people do they have on the job.
What a load of bullshit. My daughters boyfriend is on the ground in Joplin right now providing emergency medical services and has been involved in door to door searches for survivors and victims. There isnt any secret tests going on or people disappearing into government morgues.
Well, the only people that have access is family members, that doesn't sound like hiding to me, that sounds like a city that doesn't want 50 news trucks and 100 vultures, called reporters, sitting there at the morgue filming grieving families as they come to view the remains of their loved ones.
No stupid ass questions from stupid ass reporters, no reporters running after people (who survived a terrible disaster) that don't want to talk about their dead family member(s), no one sticking a camera and mic in their faces and asking them "how they feel". The families can come and go in peace...sounds like a great idea to me. More devastated communities should do this.
There is such a thing as privacy and respectAbsolutely. We have the right 'to know' what's going on but we DO NOT have the right to see it all. I certainly would not want to be one of the ones grieving with a damned camera stuck up in my face so a bunch of nosey ghouls could get their kicks watching me.
There is such a thing as privacy and respect. Have a little....
I think you can expect more of this as more government services are farmed out to the private sector. They will whatever they want irrespective of the constitutionality of it. And if ever hauled into court over it, they will win.
This is just another example of Homeland Security becoming a rogue operation within the US government. It is very easy to use the "few bad apples" excuse to cover for a systemic increase in the abuse of power that is sweeping through this country. Cops are being given the power to act out as violently and in as much of a constitutionally violating way as they choose to be. You think that they are just acting out on their own accord? Was that the case at Abu Gharib when the guards there were given free reign to abuse prisoners as they chose? No, the higher ups told them what they could do and should do to humiliate the prisoners just as the cops in this country are told how to intimidate and make the people fear them and thusly stay in line. It's always the "few bad apples" that are at the center of this crap and it's the police forces that use that overused line as cover for the systemic abuses. And in regards to the press, this case is no different then what was done to the press in their attempts to get the full story of the BP Oil disaster in the Gulf. The US Government is complicit with these cover-ups because they are happening within all their own agencies.
I don't like what I see here but I think I would need to know more about this story and yes there are usually a few bad apples in a bunch like the cop body slamming the dancer and so on,,, but that said, I think that police departments have the responsibility to do a better job screening and training the cops....
I saw a story on tv where a family was trying to find the body of their son and were told they had to wait 2 weeks to claim it! The people inside the morgue wouldn't even take a photo of the body so they could be sure their soon was dead or if they needed to keep looking. It's sad and I don't see the problem in CNN shooting video outside a morgue.
- Like Soldiers police men deal with some messed up stuff while being given lots of Authority. But we send soldiers to college to help assimilate them back into society. while questioning their health.
We need to make it so Cops never stop going to school like Teachers and not just cop school but arts humanities and history. Then we need to make easier to Hire and Fire officers and some kind of elections for certain positions in the department.
I'm saying sometimes individuals make bad decisions that have nothing to do with the organization they represent.
Some people here are trying to tie this incident to some grand fascist conspiracy to take over the country when it could be nothing more than one officer making a bad decision.
Good choice on his (the officer) part, maybe - maybe not, but I'm pretty sure that if CNN thinks it's a matter of national importance they have an army of lawyers that will aggressively litigate their case.
I get your point and agree to a certain extent, but with the level of tax cuts that have been enacted by so many GOP governments, at all levels, some cities and states are doing well to just keep staffing at needed levels.
If this was thirty years ago I would tend to agree with you, but things have changed.
1 no CNN doesn't care about topics of national importance, just look at the way they report on Bradley Manning, like not at all. The odd reporter does perhaps and it slips through every now and again like now, but don't expect them to follow-up.
You make an assumption that I have to violently disagree with. No this guy wan't even impolite, he was following orders and the "mistake" was one that occurred several levels above him.
It is a policy thing and what you see here is that the cop didn't feel allowed to make a common sense decision. Except that he got caught on film he probably would have been praised by his superior for the way he handled this.
If something like this happens repeatedly then it is a policy thing that upper management decided to follow.
First, Bradley Manning is a cowardly spy who, if found guilty, should be shot.
Second, you have no way of knowing what his "orders" are/were from the video.
Third, being rude is not a crime.
Finally, you have no idea "why" the morgue is being secured and neither does CNN.
During WWII just prior to the Battle of Midway, a order was given to send a message "in the clear" stating that Midway desalinators were not working. This message was sent to confirm that Navy Intel had broken the Japanese code. There was no problem with the desalinator but that info (why the message was being sent) was classified and not passed on to the radio operator who didn't have "A NEED TO KNOW". The radio operator knew this message was false but, not knowing why it was being sent, did his job and sent it anyway, thus confirming that Midway was the Japanese target and aiding in the destruction of Japan's aircraft carriers.
Bottomline - you, obviously, don't have a Need to Know and neither does CNN.
The people, through their representative approval (their vote) have agreed to abide by state law that gives law enforcement officers the authority to make decisions concerning public safety, when they abuse or misuse this authority, there is a process in place to address that abuse.
I see nothing in that video that is an abuse of power and I can not judge if there is a public safety concern that motivated their actions. Having lived through several hurricanes and tropical storms (TS Allison and Hurricane Ike) police will exercise extraoridinary powers when dealing with disasters on this scale, one of them is keeping people out of areas that would ordinarly be open to the public.
CNN is not a resident in that area so they (police) are within their given authority by deny access, regardless what CNN thinks...or anyone for that matter.
It's very easy for thieves to impersonate the press to gain access to devestated areas to loot people's damaged homes and steal their possessions, police have better things to do then authenticating press credentials, it's just easier to close those areas.
My goodness and what do you base your presumption of guilt with respect to Mr. Manning on? Nobody in power seems to have enough guts to bring him before a judge. To my simple mind that would suggest that perhaps they don't have a case that would stand the light of day. He should be tried, but shooting him (Daniel Elsberg too I assume), I would like to see that go before the court in the Hague.
Oooh and I must have touched a nerve. You didn't take my academic advice, though I admit Trotsky takes a little getting used to and the name itself does scare a lot of people away.
But the academic addressing of fascism is helpful here, with out the polemics. In fact you reveal yourself as a friend of the authoritarian approach to governance with a strong flavor of support for "capitalism" at least the flavor preferred in our shared homeland. That means you probably would like the practice of fascism, thought the name like Trotsky's doesn't taste good in your mouth.
Spain, Portugal and Brazil were officially and self-proclaimed fascist until the early 1970s. There is very good case to be made that El Salvador, Argentina and were fascist up into the 1980's (with active US support I might add).
Fascism has its proponents, I am not one of them. Though I get really annoyed by the dilettants who throw the name about indiscriminantly, there I share an affinity with Trotsky.
"My goodness and what do you base your presumption of guilt with respect to Mr. Manning on?"
His own words
"Later, Manning discussed his role as a source for WikiLeaks and his links with its founder Julian Assange.
(2:04:29 pm) Manning: im a source, not quite a volunteer
(2:05:38 pm) Manning: i mean, im a high profile source… and i've developed a relationship with assange…
Manning went on to discuss his growing disillusionment with the army and the US.
(2:26:01 pm) Manning: i dont believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… i only a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
(2:29:04 pm) Manning: i guess im too idealistic
(2:38:45 pm) Lamo: What would you do if your role /w Wikileaks seemed in danger of being blown?
(2:39:34 pm) Manning: try and figure out how i could get my side of the story out… before everything was twisted around to make me look like Nidal Hassan [the suspect in the fatal Fort Hood shootings]
(2:40:15 pm) Manning: i dont think its going to happen
(2:40:26 pm) Manning: i mean, i was never noticed
(2:41:10 pm) Manning: regularly ignored… except when i had something essential… then it was back to "bring me coffee, then sweep the floor"
Manning elaborated on how easy it was to siphon off data from classified networks.
(1:52:30 pm) Manning: funny thing is… we transfered so much data on unmarked CDs…
(1:52:42 pm) Manning: everyone did… videos… movies… music
(1:53:05 pm) Manning: all out in the open
(1:53:53 pm) Manning: bringing CDs too and from the networks was/is a common phenomeon
(1:54:14 pm) Lamo: is that how you got the cables out?
(1:54:28 pm) Manning: perhaps
(1:54:42 pm) Manning: i would come in with music on a CD-RW
(1:55:21 pm) Manning: labelled with something like "Lady Gaga"… erase the music… then write a compressed split file
(1:55:46 pm) Manning: no-one suspected a thing
(2:00:12 pm) Manning: everyone just sat at their workstations… watching music videos / car chases / buildings exploding… and writing more stuff to CD/DVD… the culture fed opportunities
(2:12:23 pm) Manning: so… it was a massive data spillage… facilitated by numerous factors… both physically, technically, and culturally
(2:13:02 pm) Manning: perfect example of how not to do INFOSEC
(2:14:21 pm) Manning: listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga's Telephone while exfiltratrating [sic] possibly the largest data spillage in american history
(2:15:03 pm) Manning: pretty simple, and unglamorous
(2:17:56 pm) Manning: weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis… a perfect storm
Manning said security should be improved.
(2:21:32 pm) Manning: its sad
(2:22:47 pm) Manning: i mean what if i were someone more malicious
(2:23:25 pm) Manning: i could've sold to russia or china, and made bank?
(2:23:36 pm) Lamo: why didn't you?
(2:23:58 pm) Manning: because it's public data
(2:24:15 pm) Lamo: i mean, the cables
(2:24:46 pm) Manning: it belongs in the public domain
(2:25:15 pm) Manning: information should be free
(2:25:39 pm) Manning: it belongs in the public domain
(2:26:18 pm) Manning: because another state would just take advantage of the information… try and get some edge"
He a sniveling coward that released classified information at a time of war, he should be shot!!!
As far as the rest of your post...yawn, I couldn't care less about Trotsky, he was a Russian under an entirely different set of circumstances.
It amazes me how so many people (that don't have the first clue as to "why" things happen) automatically ASSUME the worst. As I've said, I've lived in post disaster communities and the last thing we wanted was for people that didn't live there gaining access.
I have no clue why this officer did what he did...and neither do any of you.
Put him on trial and see what happens. The American way. I guess we forgot what that means.
I am not assuming the worst I am just observing and commenting.
Your insistance that he should be shot. Authoritarian Capitilastic government, doesn't have much to do with democracy or a country of laws. Take my advice please, read a bit more about fascism and decide if I am right or not and then have the intellectual courage to say that is the world you want to live in. Some people like it, some people gave their lives for it.
"First, Bradley Manning is a cowardly spy who, if found guilty, should be shot."
See that part that says " if found guilty", this IS the way we do it in this country...
That's OK, I'll wait for you to catch up.
...and it's not my insistance, it the punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice for the crime (yes crime) that he committed, the same code he VOLUNTEERED to be bound by when he enlisted. He joined the Army, the Army didn't join him.
As far as reading, I've done plenty, I'm a history major...but thanks just the same.
Not only a history major, but a former Marine that's actually defended this nation against its enemies. Since you want to talk history, here's some for you.
Look-up this unit and date 24th Marine Amphibious Unit, Oct 1983...there's a bit of my history. Some read about history and some live it.
Respect, Lebanon was tough, but with all due respect that was a very different Marine Corps and very different America. Illegal orders and war crimes, honor... those were things that still counted for something back then. If you got caught shooting civilians, or misusing munitions against bicycilists you would end up in front of a court-martial, water-boarding was something the North Koreans did. In a couple of years Oli North was going to do time for his crimes of stupidity and the politicos would be running cocaine out of Costa Rica.
Keep on repeating "Bradley Manning is a cowardly spy" I on the other hand will ask why Bradley Manning is the villain when the torturers have been given a free pass.
You still haven't answered me, do you think an authoritarian government with the unfettered power to kidnap innocent people off the streets of the world, put them in black prisons, torture them an then set them free without so much as "sorry for the inconvenience" that can throw people in jail indefinitely with no recourse, strip them naked and leave the lights on 24 hours a day, all in the name of defending America's corporate interests is not fascist?
I have never picked up a gun in anger, that is something I am proud of too.
IT Security is my day job so the Manning story is two-edged sword when it comes to me. I would be happy if someone went after the war-criminals, and so for me Manning on one side is up there with Daniel Elsberg, but I would feel real stupid if Manning happened on my watch.
I disagree. Manning did the right thing. And this was not war it was and still is ongoing genocide. I too am X marine . I wonder what kind of history you studied . Please try some political anthropology . Lots of history books are missinformation scripts .Got to follow the money . Good luck.
I have seen horrendous abuse . I have to say you are off the mark on this. It is much wrse than you think. But I'm not talking about the morgue . Let that be clear. Just your statement that abuse is an individual thing as opposed to being systematic . I think that is how you got ff in the wrong direction judgeing Manning. There is systemic abuse . . Big time. !!!!!!!!!
First, lets talk about what Manning is not. He's not a member of the press, not a whistle blower and he's not a civilian.
He's a member of the United States armed forces who took an oath th defend this nation against enemies, both foreign and domestic. He agreed to subject himself to the UCMJ and by releasing classified information he committed a crime under that very code.
He is not afforded the same protections given to members of the press and he is not given whistle blower protection status.
Motive has absolutely no bearing on his actions or charges.
The person(s) that should in a cell right next to him are Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush.
You conflate his actions with those responsible for steering this nation into a moral abyss. Two wrong don't make a right. The Bush administration was wrong and so was Manning. I refuse to condone that which I know is wrong in order to attack those that created the a black hole of moral leadership.
We, as a society, could have prevented the Iraq war without someone like Bradley Manning but we failed to challenge the power structure and the press failed to do its job.
Now, some people, many who voted for Bush, want to look to Manning as some sort of saint. If they had seen Bush for what he really was Manning would not have been created.
He's a criminal and he must face justice within the UCMJ.
With all due respect gump, no you're not a Marine and never served in the Marine Corps. It's easy to out the frauds because they don't know OUR history.
First, it's never spelled "marine" (lower case) because Marine is a proper noun and Marines NEVER call ourselves X because once we claim the title we will always be Marines, two facts that are made very, very clear from the moment we enter boot camp.
As far as hisory, who cares, this is not about history, it's about military law, no more no less, and the law is very, very clear about how classified information should be handled.
Who cares, Manning is not correcting that wrong, all he did was put lives at risk.
Put the blame where it belongs, with the American electorate, they are the ones that allowed George Bush to do the things he did. They are the guilty party, stop looking to Manning as if he told the world things we didn't already know. There is nothing in those documents that we didn't know. We may not have had all the details, but anyone who was paying attention should have known that the Bush administration was criminal...but Americans re-elected him away.
It's time for people (voters) to except their responsibility for their role in this mess. Stop acting like this was all a surprise, it wasn't to anyone that was paying attention. Stop acting as though "my God, thanks to Manning we found out we were lied too", of course you were lied too, but you gave Bush 4 more years anyway. If it took Bradley Manning for you to realize that it was all a lie, then it's your own fault.
Manning had a legal obligation to safeguard classified information, that's why he's where he is, if he thought he could steal Secret and Top Secret documents and give them to Assange without the DOD coming down on him with both feet then he was a fool and should be in jail for being stupid.
...and in the much larger picture, if you think I want 20 year olds making decision of national security, like what should be declassified, then you're crazy. There isn't a 20 year old anywhere in this country I want deciding what national secret should or should not be secret.
Lady Gaga? He's listening to Gaga while deciding what classified information to give away...get real. He's not even an commissioned officer, not even a staff NCO, not even an NCO, he was PRIVATE, the LOWEST rank in the entire military and we are suppose to give him the authority to decide our national secrets...are you really serious?
There is no guarantee they were "Police Officers" after Katrina there were loads of MIC aka Black Water aka XE storming the streets...Our tax dollars at work, mind you.... Great Post Kenny, Voted Up... =)
Well I guess We are not as free as one would think. They were acting Oh I don't know. Maybe like Storm Troopers? They sure were not Polite or being understanding in any way. They were trying to protect and serve Who I'm not sure of. But it was not the Genral Public. Just why are they Hiding the dead?? Just what are they Hiding??
I have always believed that the country's policing situation has been becoming a problem. Constant TV Cop shows that if you watch the violence rising from the men in blue on just plain simple arrests, and this never ending worthless war on drugs. We have been a step away from pure Fascists Law enforcement. I know its a tuff job and there are more good cops than bad, but when you feed these protect and serve warriors more and more it's OK to be above the law crap. Well you get what you see today!