Obama willing to cut social security and medicare

. . . so in a sense, you feel it is better to vote for confirmed ineptitude rather than vote for imagined ineptitude? . . wow - that kind of ignorance, left to go to seed will only yield a crop full of chaos. . . have fun with the harvest!

You have every right to disagree with me, but no right to label my beliefs as "ignorance". That kind of crude response is anathema in an atmosphere of respectful discussion and discourse. I believe you owe me an apology.

You are right of course, I don't know you. . . and ignorant undoubtedly is not correctly descriptive. . . but you did express an opinion that from my perspective did seem so and was not at all logical, and it seemed to me as I read your analogous reasoning to your presented conclusion, that it was founded upon ill and erroneous assumptions of the character and capabilities of Obama vs the candidates seeking the candidacy of the POTUS, who by the way have proved themselves (and their credibility) far beyond that of Obama. . . Which of course is my opinion.
One thing that has remained a constant in my conclusions of the character (& at least among my peers) is to judge the company a person keeps and their influences that direct his/her actions.
One need not look to far or deeply to discern the Marxist roots and Alinsky tactics that Obama and the so called "progressive" social democrats are attempting to firmly seat as the ruling philosophy within our govt. . . an anathema to the very essence of a free society where govt is controlled and directed by the people, whereas it is increasingly apparent that now, more than ever, govt is controlling and directing the lives of the people.
From my perspective, to deny that, is in fact ignorance gone to seed, permeating throughout a society weak of will or purpose.

I hate to agree with you but you are right. Paul Krugman? Obama should listen to him instead of the jackass's that he listens to.

I will not run my personal voting strategy as an endless game of political defense against the [ sole ] "other team". If thats the BEST that can be done,....then there should be a revolution.

Do some research. He has kept many of his promises. Some were held back by republicans and some democrats.

He fought for the public option for most of a year. You have to have the votes. I can only think the democrats that voted against it were tied to the health companies. These were mostly the blue dogs. The bill he got was through reconciliation. Who's going to vote on Medicare for all.

He did an executive order to close Gitmo, only to have congress not fund it. I could list what he accomplished but research will find it. I'm tired of doing it.

He has created more jobs in two years then Bush did in eight. Yes, we need many more. The big corporations are sitting on trillions. Why aren't they helping, instead of worring about their tax breaks. What have the republicans come up with....NOTHING

I haven't heard of an Independent running yet. Have you?

thumbs up

Thanks for the comment. I have done research and I understand that he is getting NO cooperation, but he has not yet fought the good fight. He has not been able to make a statement and carry it out in full. Half attempts are no good, comprimise must be to his advantage and I have not seen that yet. I think that everyone here is just waiting for him to make a stand on what he stands for. If he doesnt stand for anything but comprimise, he is not the leader that we need.

At this time as Corneal West says, I cannot vote for him again. I can no longer vote the straight ticket.

But he still has a chance to do something.

He is doing something. I'm very proud of him today. He is standing against the republicans on the debt ceiling. The republicans are getting nervous If Boner had control of his house, more could be agreed on McConnel is already waving the.white flag.

He says he will get it done if it means his presidency. I hope that is just playing good chess, I want him around for another term. He will do good in four more years. I am confident. In 2012 if he gets the house back, watch him go.

Your right. I was wondering why if Obama was going to cut SS and Medicare benefits, they didn't mention it. When I hear it from all parties in these meetings I will believe it, not The Washington Post.

I completely agree rossmick.

Agreed!

I'll second that motion.

I third it.

This is the whole problem, you lay down and kick your heels because he hasn't been able to overcome the GOP machine that is killing us all..............then you give over more power to them...................YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. You are not more liberal.

For one thing, you have no idea whether I'm liberal or not. You can take my word for it or just come to your own conclusions -- whichever feels more comfortable for you given your personal perception of reality. How about being a socialist? Is that liberal enough for you? How about wanting universal social health care for everyone? Liberal enough for you? Supporting gay marriage? Equal pay for equal work? Worker ownership of the means of production? The end of the war on drugs? It doesn't really matter... but it's worth noting that Obama supports none of the things I just mentioned and in fact has worked against some of them. I'm not going to vote for him just because there is a D next to his name. He is a conservative. Compared to me he is a raging radical right-wing nutjob. He might as well be a Republican.

For another thing, you mislabel my normal political dissent (because it doesn't exactly coincide with your own political opinions) as if it is some sort of a tantrum, but doing so amounts to nothing more than an ad hominem argument.

You can keep believing that the GOP really are the ones neutering the Obama administration if you want, as I did until fairly recently, or you can come to the same conclusion as I did: Obama isn't really a liberal. It's not really a secret. It's not hard to see. At first it did appear to me that Obama was really fighting for liberal ideas, but the ridiculously stupid GOP kept making Obama cave in, but that isn't reality. The fact is that it's an act. Democrats are having their cake and eating it too. They get to pretend to fight for liberal ideals, and pretend to lose while in reality it was planned all along and they are just appeasing their rich political backers.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. It is my feeling that voting for either corporate party is giving over more power to the rich and powerful entities that are running the show. Obama has shown me that it isn't worth it to vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

It is depressing that most people can only grasp a superficial concept of what is going on and can't see the big picture. They can only see Ds and Rs. They can't see that the left vs right theatrics are just to divide the people amongst themselves.

The Democrats depend on the "lesser of 2 evils" vote. That's why they can take a creamy swirly dump on liberals constantly and still win elections. If for once we make the Dems fear their base (they laugh at and openly mock their base currently), then maybe, just maybe we can move them to the left.

You, by automatically giving away your vote to the Dems, endorse the status quo and real change can never happen that way.

That is how I feel. I respect your opinion because I held the same opinion not so long ago. Please do me a favor and if you wish to respond, please don't tell me how liberal or un-liberal I am. You do not know me. You do not need to condescend to me in order to hold a different opinion. You know mine. I know and respect yours even though I disagree with it now. Good day.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/05/democrats

This is an interesting read, even if you end up disagreeing with Greenwald, but he more articulately describes what I was trying to say about Democrats dumping on instead of fearing their base. Even I fear the GOP winning, but I will stand by my convictions anyway. It might make you feel better to know I live in Rhode Island which is extremely Democratic and so Obama will win my state no matter how I vote individually.

Quote from the article:

"One thing is for certain: right now, the Democratic Party is absolutely correct in its assessment that kicking its base is good politics. Why is that? Because they know that they have inculcated their base with sufficient levels of fear and hatred of the GOP, so that no matter how often the Party kicks its base, no matter how often Party leaders break their promises and betray their ostensible values, the base will loyally and dutifully support the Party and its leaders"

Thank you very much, I actually do very often agree with Greenwald. I simply am horrified at the idea of anyone with an once human kindness not voting and letting the GOP have even more power...............they are so incredibly dangerous already. No I don't like Obama's negotiating tactics because they look weak to me but I am not willing to see another Republican in the whitehouse. Hey I voted for Nader before, and that's why I know that we take ourselves out of the game entirely if we don't stick together.

I think that it is possible that if I lived in a red state or a swing state I would not be as eager to vote my conscience... but I'm fairly positive that Obama will win my state. Oh well, good luck to us all no matter what happens.

I know that there is no way my vote makes any differnce at all but I know I cannot vote for a Republican and I don't think that not voting is the answer. Yes I throw away my vote every two years like clockwork because in this state any vote that doesn't go GOP doesn't count. I do participate with BoldProgressives and anything else I can think of.

OMG that man is the scariest one I have seen so far.

The man in the clip that ziggy just posted is exactly why we have vote, our vote is the only weapon we have. I am not a Dem either I just know that I have to work within the structure. that is available. Otherwise this is what we will get and our ideals will be of no value at all, we will all be in camps.

Your vote counts now more than ever before, as does Noxiderious, and Janforgore.
Every single vote will be needed to stop the Republicans.

We needed every vote last November but I guess some people were upset about Obama caving on all those things he did not cave on so they stayed home.

Now we have a Tea Party Congress. Grady Miller is a Tea Party darling. This is what we get when we don't vote, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, Jan Brewer. We get the shaft. Which is exactly what we are going to get if Obama does not win in 2012.

You know Ziggy I don't usually watch horror films and I have to tell you that Grady Miller makes me want to invite Freddy Kruegger over for a dinner party. Freddy would be a hell of alot safer.

Granted this guy is not going anywhere, but people need to know his point of view is not a left wing scare tactic. He believes what he's saying.

Yes but unfortunately this is the kind of thing that a fair portion of the far right actually do believe. The others just aren't so open about it

Every vote counts, even in a red state, that may change. If nothing else you will feel better that you gave your best.

I always vote, I have never missed an election. However, the reality is that this state is totally dependent on mineral extraction for job and the GOP and the energy companies make sure that no other industry gets its dirty little feet into their giant sheep ranch. People need to take care of their families and so they go ahead and vote GOP. The enegy companies also engage in "Economic Violence" and there is no social safety net in this state.

What a shame. Shame on the GOP and the energy companies. Shows they need voted out. I understand people need to feed their families, but other industry would create more jobs, for the people that don't have a job.

What's the other choice Jan?

Are you seriously saying you think another candidate can be elected besides Obama?

Please tell us how that will play out. Who is it that can win the 2012 election beside Barack Obama.

Whoever you have in mind, it's a fantasy.
You have been around long enough to know this, so what is the point you are trying to make here? that if Obama does not please you, we are better off with Michelle Bachmann, or Romney?

I need to understand how it is disappointed progressives rationalize these ideas that would result in a Republican administration. It's ideological suicide at best. Not to mention that you are completely wrong about Obama, but that is another whole rant.

How would a Republican be better than Obama? Don't go ballistic just give me some rational responses and I won't bother you further.

Best,

Ziggy

You tell em ziggy

What's the other choice? A Democrat who is a REAL Progressive Democrat and not a DINO not being cowed by this anti-democratic rhetoric that you cannot stand up to Obama as a primary challenger even if all he does goes against Democratic principles!

Otherwise, I don't know what I'm going to do at this point. He has also greatly disappointed in regards to the environment and personally for me, if he gives the green light to the Keystone XL project that will just about cinch his not getting my vote. And you know why? Do I really have to tell you why?

HE will be the one giving this election away if he continues to ignore the important issues that need REAL LEADERSHIP. We don't need someone who will lay his coat over the mud patch so the Republicans can pass over it. We need somone who will push them in the mud!

Tell me what? To just have blind allegiance and accept anything I am handed and just shut up about it?

NO NO NO never shut up about it, just don't lay down for them. Al decided it would be best for the country not to rip us apart and at the time I thought he was right that it was more important to maintain a semblance of unity. However, it turned into an absolute nightmare for this country with Bush/Cheney in office. Not voting gives oxygen to the capitalists whose only motivation is a dollar and be damned to all

RIght, never shut up, just be honest so you can vote me down and twist my words. And how did Al Gore get into this? You're going to completely ignore the comment regarding a primary challenger while twisting it all around to make it look like I am laying down? Sorry, but if you go along with the status quo it is you who are laying down, because if you are willing to vote for an enabler you might as well vote for the opposition.

You don't have to tell me anything. I asked you whom that is, not what your opinion of them is, or why you vote, that is your business.

Since you are posting your opinions on a public forum, it's natural to be asked to elaborate You are not addressing the issue.

Which Republican is it you think will please your ideology better than Obama?. When you read a menu, usually you order from what is there. I'm asking a simple question, who is it that can win the election in Obama's stead. If a Republican is on your menu, I get it.

What I'm pointing out to you, is that according to what you are saying, you are so disappointed with the President that you would cast your vote, if you vote at all for a Republican. That would be the actual result of voting for Bernie, or Dennis, or any other sure to lose candidate. You might as well write in Al Gore. So the question being put to you is where do you draw the line at biting your nose off to spite your face?

If you know who that potential candidate is, please share.

Sorry Jan but I see it differently, this is not a perfect world and I can only work with what I am given. I actually don't have anything left to lose as I have already lost everything but I will not just say the hell with it I don't like either candidate and I have to stand on priciple so I won't vote for Obama he hasn't accomplished everything I think he should have.

He has accomplished a lot in a short time. Research it.

Your right he has accomplished alot, I was speaking rhetorically -- meaning that just because he hasn't met every demand from the base doesn't mean we shouldn't support him.

Thank you. I'm glad you were speaking rhetorically. Sometimes I think to serious and don't read between the lines. Sorry.

i don't always express myself very well

whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com lays out alot of what he has done

Ziggy, There is no one running in the Republican party that is better then Obama. They will NOT do anything for the people. People tend to forget he has accomplished a lot for the American people. They forget what a mess he has, and no help from Republicans and blue dog Democrats.

I strongly believe that many Democrats changed parties in the 2010 election. Look what happened. The states are crying because of the Republican governors, takiing away rights of the people.

Look what happened in the house. Now we have reps taking orders from the tea party. Bohner right along with them. They are holding a gun to the presidents head. It sounds like no one learned. Just blame Obama, when it is those who voted them in that are to blame.

Do they think the president should let us default on our debt for the first time in history. The house holds the power and has the gun. Wake up all that think the Republicans will do better. But cry to yourself.

I have been there. A good one. I have posted some, but nothing changes, or they don't read. Thank you.

I know. I don't understand the "I'm not happy so I'm not voting" attitude. But the one that irks me most is the premise that someone should be a primary challenger to Obama, All that will do is give Republicans a bigger advantage than they are building by suppressing the vote. I seriously think people are in dreamland.

Ziggy, They are in a dreamland. No one will challenge the president. So what will they do, vote another Bush in. Obama is trying to pull us out of the Bush mess. i didn't expect him to make everything great again in a short period of time. Maybe in another term. Not voting in 2010 did not help our president. It made it harder for him.

Good comment!

Agreed! Obama needs to stand and stand strong.

Me too. If he sells out the middle class, I 'will' vote for a third party candidate. Bernie Sanders comes to mind!

Obama is giving in to the GOP a little to much for me. And then calling it a win for the American people this is weak. All talking points, if he need to CUT something let it be the military.

Agreed!

Here's something you could CUT Obama, to really save money at the Department of Defense it's easy, close the bases in England, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Guam, Japan, Okinawa, Korea & Diego Garcia and we'll save a fortune, which can be used to repair our infrastructure. Oh and by the way, void all contracts with mercenary armys, like Tony Prince's Blackwater, etc. These particular "Dogs of War" Should be destroyed as a global favor. Do you know we pay these country to use their bases.

Reptards worship at the feet of the MIC; Obama has said NOTHING about changing the military budget; that means Obama is a Dino.

A big, big, big time favorite of mine too! There is not a representative in the house or senate that I have more respect and fondness for than Senator Sanders. Heck yes, Bernie Sanders for President, I'm with ya on that for sure.

Now wouldn't it be funny if enough of us actually voted for Bernie next November that NONE of the official candidates got in????

You bet! The only money I want spent on the military is to bring our soldiers home and to take care of their needs when they get here. We need our military, but we don't need more wars to support the military industrial complex. Again, and again corporate abuse of our tax dollars, but the rethug can't give it to them fast enough.

In 100% agreement with that! The idea of paying these unnecessary mercenary groups because,, well because that's what Bush and Cheney did is simply idiotic . It's just more deregulation and privatization to funnel more funds to the private sector, just crazy.

Ha! Excellent!

I appreciate your opinion, but I don't agree with you.

Ok, as I value and appreciate your opinion. I'm curious, was there a particular point or just in general regarding my displeasure with what has taken place with President Obama's approach in dealing with the republicans.

Bernie Sanders for write in candidate, for the V.P. position, I suggest Alan Grayson.

I don't believe he started campaigning as soon as he entered the White House. I think he really believed he could change Washington and work across the isle. I think he learned some durning the health care debate when not only republicans but the blue dogs of his party kept us from the Public Option.Then the republicans did more filibusters in history to stop him.

He has had a lot of accomplishements. Research them. I didn't like two more years of Bush tax cuts, but he gave to get a two year extention of tax cuts for the middle class, a payroll tax cut, extention of unemployment, funding for planned parenthood and DADT. This was for the American people. The Bush tax cuts run out 2012. If re-elected he will get rid of them. if a Republican wins they will be made permenant. I don't feel he was timid making this deal.

I don't believe he will make cuts in BENEFITS on Medicare and Medicaid. I do believe in cuts of waste and fraud to preserve them. I will wait till all is done to judge on these. Not rumors and opinions. If he wants to be re-elected he won't take from only the seniors and middle class. Some of this is fact, some my opinions.I think i wrote more then you commented on. Because you didn't make ugly remarks, I still respect what you believe.

Thanks SFirman. I plead guilty to personal opinions and marginal hyperbolic rhetoric, but not to rumors. On the matter of researching the president’s accomplishments, I think I’m up to date. To not go through all points, suffice it to say, we simply disagree on several but not all. I have my assumptions as you have yours, yours are more optimistic than mine. This debt limit debate will be a tell of the tale, I'm hopeful.

Thanks .I plead guilty to opinions also. I am optimistic. I'm glad we agree on some. One thing I learned a long time ago." You can't please everyone" No matter what he does some will agree. Some will not.

** A simple thing like raising the cap on taxed income would do the trick (currently, no SS dollars are withheld on earnings over $106,800) ** Excellent comment!

My husband is a living casualty of the Vietnam War ... and the insurance wars over the last 30 years. We worked 3 jobs between the 2 of us for 10+ years but none of them offered health insurance without a MAJOR pay cut, and when it comes down to having a roof over your head and health insurance, guess which one we picked? Five years ago he got so sick he couldn't ignore his symptoms any longer so we went to the local VA hospital. They told him he had diabetes, and since he had ignored the symptoms for more than 10 years he also had chronic kidney failure and congestive heart failure. The good news? VA pays a monthly allowance for those conditions, and covers all his medical care free of charge.
Two years ago he was diagnosed with prostate cancer; went thru radiation and seemed to have beat it. Six months later he slipped on the ice on the sidewalk in front of our house ... because the radiation compromised his bones that fall broke his hip. After hip surgery and 6 weeks in rehab he came home ... 6 DAYS later the sonofabitch that came to check our new furnace forgot to turn down the gas and BURNED OUR HOUSE DOWN! We managed to get out -- thanks in no small part to those 6 weeks of rehab, my husband could walk out of that burning house before it got out of control -- and now we have a brand new home that was paid for by the company that employed that idiot.
Last month when he went for his primary care appointment his heart rate was so low that they put him in the hospital and installed a pacemaker. While he was recovering they discovered he had gout, so they did some more tests and decided it was time for him to start dialysis. At this exact moment ... 9;49 p.m. July 8, 2011 -- he is in rehab yet again trying to recover from ALL of this just so he can come home and LIVE.

I resent this country, and I resent this country's leaders because I am 58 years old and my husband is 60 and our first child died of cancer 2 DAYS after he was born, and our second child is severely retarded and MY elected employEEs don't give a damn what I have dealt with, and AM dealing with, as long as THEY get their way.

I don't want to take a 'day trip' to Canada or Mexico to get my drugs at a reasonable price, I want to MOVE there, but the goddamned UNKNOWN is scarier than the known, and from where I'm sitting that makes our elected employEEs an abusive husband.

Hey...thanks for sharing your story. My heart goes out you and your husband... I wish I had anything I could offer to you by way of help. I share your frustration at the uncaring attitude that has woven itself into the fabric of our country.

I have searched my heart and soul and mind, and to the limits of my ability to understand, I canot fathom how so many, who have so much, can see so many others that are wanting, needing assistance - and their only response is to harden their hearts and lockdown their wallets. President Obama ran last time around on a message of change and hope, and that resonated with people, because there are many of us (the majority of us - that is what truly bothers me - WE ARE IN THE MAJORITY and yet we remain controlled!), there are many of us who know that this country HAS to fundamentally change. What is a country that is unconcerned with the basic human needs of it's citizens? HOW DID AMERICA TURN INTO A COUNTRY THAT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ALL OF HER PEOPLE?

Hope is the thing that motivates us all to continue - we persevere, hoping against the evidence, that if we only work harder and endure our hardships, that things will be better in the future. Without that hope, our social institutions WILL break down. Yet how can we all maintain hope for the future when we see things increasingly turning openly hostile to people of modest means - to say nothing of people who are in need? These evil people - the Boehners and the Ryans and the Roves and Bushes, and Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann, and everyone who thinks like them, these are the people who are murdering hope in the working classes. And what can we do about it? How can we stop them?

Rah ! Rah ! Rah !