The National Debt, A Phony Crisis ! ! !

Which is why, and like on any continuum or spectrum, we need a tremendous voice reshaping the issues on the FAR LEFT in order to tilt the balance back to our end, irrespective of any legitimacy to the Obama/puppet story.

Even if you see no conclusive legitimacy of collusion between both parties and the banks, that's cool, the issues ARE more important to all of us, who it affects more than them - the politicians, bankters & 1%ers. To cover both our points of view we hopefully agree that putting the issues out front as populist issues - like the way Civil Rights, Women's Rights and the Vietnam War protests were handled, so they are not co-opted for political gain and unnecessarily compromised for whatever reason we choose to believe makes that happen.

I'm not sure what you mean by reshaping the issues on the FAR LEFT unless you mean presenting them as common sense, common man, for the common good issues - which can be distilled for starters into one - the banksters and those who enable them vs. the rest of the world; the simplest distillation being "Class War", as Naomi Klein put it today. I really don't see society as divided as the media and government image it. I think WI proves that point, and at the moment polls reflect an underlying understanding of unfair advantage and unfair sacrifice across the spectrum of society.

I am reluctantly willing to simply focus, identify and target the enemy itself, and leave out the enablers in government who would be swept aside anyway, if it helps unify a populist uprising too big to fail. But I am not willing to simply allow the issues to be captured by the politics of image; we need to ensure we get politics of action.

Ditto ff! I feel u & I'm right beside u. by reshaping the issues I mean what was pointed our when reps were crying about this being a welfare state and the peep pointed out that it is the corporations that have been on welfare, and when they say we have a spending problem in Washington, meaning too much spending on the public, the peep point out that the problem with spending in Washington is that our money is being spent on the war machine to enrich a few people without benefitting the country, and if we stop pissing our money away like that, we would have plenty of money for public services...

Just as Rome and Greece fell So shall America. When We do not know but like all great powers that be. They are doomed by their own greed.

Thats what happens when you have a bunch of war mongers running the Country.

I agree!

I second the motion all in favor say AyA.

I watched Capitalism A Love Story yesterday. And I want to do a Michael Moore style move, by finding the richest person in my county, state whatever and dress up and go present a business plan in a slide show on the side of their house, or on cardboard or something, trickle on me!!!

That's because ...they don't own the message. The Banksters and their political monkeys who created this mess do.

http://USA.co

By now, people who don't walk on treadmills realize Nobama can only talk
the talk, and never walk the walk. He's the classic " weak sister " excuse
for the male immage in ANY executive capacity. On the up side that makes
him a usable puppet for the status quo. But the only change he'll ask for
too much resembles a corner panhandler's pitch. Because it's only designed
to enrich him. Too many parts of the USA are on the event horizon of yet
another Great Depression, which will be far more devestating than the one
lasting from 1929-1939. That Great Depression was the one even FDR who
did take decisive executive action couldn't end, sans the social safety nets
that arose out of it, even with the Work Projects Administration, the Civilian
Conservation Core my dad worked for, et al. Then, many new projects like
reservoirs in Colorado, the Hoover dam, and the interstate highway system
were needed and implemented to put people to work. But the infrastrucure
of the USA has been crumbling for over 30 years when Reagan took office
due to extreme negligence. His stimulus was supposed to repair the bridges
and parallel FDR's exercises. But that was a day late and a dollar short too.

No green jobs promised ever materialized. Nobama ran on change then
proposed to give " the Fed " yet more power to ruin the USA. When Nobama
counted on a mindless puppet like Bernanke to know which end is up, the
mirror immage of Nobama and his foreign & domestic puppetmasters became
all too clear. I grew up in the 1950s, and 1960s, and marched against the
Vietnam War, so obviously I'm a radical, who's been Felony Libeled as a
" terrorist " by the ABC TV media hatchet man Racketeeer for the the Flunkie
Bureau of Idiots, Dan Cummings. Despite my non criminal record, and my
lifelong history of Bhuddist non violence ( my ancestors were Pennsylvania
Quakers ), they still target me for their lawless oppression, as I tell it like it is.

That comes with the territory occupied by the upright with a spine because
they'll always be regarded as leaders of people, and not one of the sheeple.
As George Orwell once said: " The truth is always the first casualty of war.
In any society where deceit is so pervasive the mere act of speaking the
truth will always be considered Revolution." Be that as it may. Long live the
American Revolution. Tories, not the Patriots are still in control through the Rothschilds' London Banking Houses they've owned for 300 years, who also
own " the Fed ". I don't owe any debts. And never will owe any debts any I
can't cover. I'll always have the last laugh on the Banksters. Every student
of History knows Charles Dicken's novel " A Christmas Carrol ".Scrooge aka
Ebineezer the Geezer said: " Are there no poorhouses, no debtor's prison's
for the miserable lot to dwell in ? Then I suggest they simply die to decrease
the surplus population " That's more prophetic than most people realize. In
the entire world History, the population averaged 1-2 Billion. Since the advent
of Big Oil in 1859, petrochemical fertilizers, diesel tractors on Corporate farms
have enabled 1 to feed 1000. The result is that 5 Billion more people now
live on the edge of starvation than this earth than the earth can sustain. Add
to that the drought shriveling them too...The USA is still part of this world. By
2100, the USA will resemble something out of a sysnthesis of Total Recall 2070
and Judge Dredd. Because with the kind of corrupt staged farce in Washington,
it's obvious they don't have a clue, much less a handle on how to end the debt.
They benefit too much from it because of the corruption the Banksters' promote.

But the harsh reality is that the majority of folks who aren't rich, continue to identify and align themselves as "Republicans" even though rethug management literally do nothing but screw this 'base'.

Talk about brainwashing. How many good ole boy white folks do we all know who don't have a pot to piss in but they'll take any opportunity they can to stand up on a soap box and rant about how these same Rethuglicans truly have their best interest at heart!

Talk about stupid is as stupid does.

They do a few things to get them: They create a "them". A lot of these folks probably think that someone else will be more affected, "them". They also use wedge issues: Abortion, gay rights, civil rights, etc. Think about it, just how many anti-abortion, homophobic, racists are Democrats? How many are rethuglicans?

Inflation is meaningless since leaving the gold standard.
The only people that inflation matters to, is people who have a restricted income.
Meaning 94% of the population. -The non-rich.

"We" didn't create any inflation, the Fed did with the help of Nixon who took us off the gold standard. If you read a history of the Fed you'll understand that it was, in essence, a privatization of the US Treasury. And like all private for profit entities, it's primary concern is it's own survival, not that of the United States. Any decision the Fed makes is first and foremost made to benefit themselves and the US second.

I'm all for cutting spending. The first major cut should be defense. Are you aware that we spend 20 billion dollars a year for air conditioning for US forces? That's more than the entire NASA budget. It's a bloated industry still stuck in a Cold War strategy. The war we should be preparing for is already being fought on the economic front by the Chinese and their US corporate enablers.

LMAO ! ! !

HERE! HERE! Mark! And what, we have around 700 foreign BASES ? ? ? That's asinine!

B-B-B-B-But if we stop spending on defense, the BOOGEY MAN will get us!!!

Late as usual Parrotbagger. We needed to quit spending when GWB was king. Now we have to pay the bills he charged up, then we can worry about the real debt. Now, go ahead and report me.

You'll love this one. when i had my store in 05 i saw the credit cards were going to get to screw us and tried to explain it to the lady who owned the design store. She didn't beleive me. So in 07 she comes in and says; OMG what's with the credit cards?! we talked a little bit and then she says, "it is getting bad, my friends in Santa Fe had to sell the BMW!" EGAD!

which is why we know that neither side will let it happen, so it's all theatric posturing and a little jockeying for position or marginal gains.

Actually I beleive it means that the Bond market will make billions, and they want us to have a false debt crisis, as do the Hedge funds. Right now the bond market is the next crash in waiting and they want to blame it on Obama. why do you think the repugs are fighting to make a debt crisis? Follow the money. The Fed rate is the one that determines our credit card rate more or less, so the bank that has you card gets charge next to nothing and they charge you 15 to 35 plus fees and rake it in. Deficit aint' the issue. In europe they think we are crazy screaming the sky is falling when it isn't here. Even our f-ing wars won't bankrupt us believe it or not. But if they realy gave a shit about the deficit they wouldn't have gotten us into this back in 2002 and beyond, and they would be screaming for all troops to come home and all contracts to be cancelled. We spend more on military than the rest of the world combined. What would you think of a neighbor that spent all his money on weapons and drove the kids to school in tanks? peace.

I'm not at all familiar with the bond market and dege funds so will take your word that there in lie the next crisis.
re the credi score - I was referring to the credit rating for the USA, not our personal credit score and now the interest charged on our credit cards. HOWEVER, if thw US government defaults on our debts, the creditors to the USA immediately raise the rates charged on the USA loans. When THESE loan rates go up so will the rates on everything else, which means our own personal credit cards. a sort of dominoe effect.
And when the US economy crashes so do those of most other countries around the world

The fact that Obama is even mentioning the possibility of reducing social program spending out of the necessity to strike a budget compromise, evidences that the discussion is a pretext for legitimizing stealing more from the tax payers. Otherwise, a legitimate populist would stand and say no more theft of public money! There are sufficient areas in which to make ample budget cuts to address the deficit and debt, without further raping the people. Call a TOE-MAY-TOE a TOE-MAH-TOE, and it's still an acidic fruit.

I'm not familiar with the expression "ropa dopin Sandy.

he believes that raising the debt ceiling is more likely to cause our debt to be downgraded than... I don't know... SINKING THE ENTIRE US ECONOMY.

Come on, John. You know better than that.

http://2.mo

By allowing the U.S. National debt to default, their credit rating would be
downgraded. With that downgrading, the risk of lending to them goes up,
To compensate for that increased risk, the amount of money in interest
the U.S. Government pays on carrying that debt would increase dramaticly.
At first it might not seem unsustainable, but as they roll over deficits into the
debt, those deficits aggregate a larger debt, which burgeons over time by
interest compounded, not daily, but by the microsecond.Time is money. It's
estimated by 2050, the annual interest on the debt with the current credit
rating would quadruple to $2.3 Trillion, more than all the current income
taxes collectable. Since the U.S. sold out the Soverignty of the USA in 1913,
to foreigners who control the U.S.' credit rating, any lowering of their credit
rating would plunge the entire U.S.A.'s economy into a Depression worse
than the Great Depression which lasted from 1929-1939, ending only with
WW2. Even the WPA, CCC, et al measures FDR took to curtail the collossal
human misery of widespread homelessness, malnutrition, mass suicides
weren't enough. With no income taxes from 35% unemployment, nothing
could sustain that staggering national debt. Even Atlas the Titan couldn't
deadlift the weight of our entire world as completely as the $1.5 Quadrillion
( $1.5, 000,000,000,000,000 ) of financial obligations the U.S.Govt. has
assumed for the Wall St. Banksters' casino gambling derivatives market.
This entire sordid situation has played out exactly as President Andrew
Jackson prophesized in his exit address to 18 Million Americans in the
1930s to explain why he vetoed the 2nd Corporate Bank of the U.S.
(Government), the American equivalent of the Rothschilds' owned " Fed "

By 1970 the U.S. Govt. was totaly dependent on credit to operate since
it allowed a Monopoly to lord over them. When they let the Rothschild's
cartel grease them in 1913 to allow their Trojan Horse " Fed " in through
the Federal Reserve Act, the U.S. Government gave up it's Soverignty to
control it's own economic affairs & monentary system. By so doing, it also
gave up the Soverignty of We the People. WE are the U.S. Government.
Ie all 300+ Million of us. We directly, and through our States, are the big
pyramid that holds the U.S. up, as in e pluribus unum. The U.S. is only a
mirror reflection of what we are. So with Americans personal debt level
at over $300 Trillion, in addition to the REAL $65 Trillion " secret " natl.
debt, people have sold their independence, and their souls to the devil.
Point is Americans are no longer in control than their U.S. Govt is. The
U.S. Govt. is no more in control than a waterskier is by holding the teather
connecting it to the powerboat that's pulling it. ALL the debtors in the USA
have been reduced to a bad rendition of that 1980s GoGos video " Vacation Getaway " . They assume Liberty is the natural condition of humans, yet
they don't know shit from shinola about Usery Slavery. And won't until
they're too poor to buy fireworks for their annual July 4 partiers' escape.

The only SURE way the USA is going to regain it's soverignty is to: 1. End
the endless foreign wars fomented by Banksters to sate Corporate Piracy.
2. End Prohibition & the Prison Industrial Complex, a $2.3 Trillion parasite
feeding off the USA each year per the Corp Govt. " DOJ " sponsored War
on Drugs. 3. Restore the original functions of the Treasury verbatim to the
Constitution. William Jennings Bryan envisioned fiat currency as a way to
end the abuses of Bankers abusing the Gold/Silver standard by giving
people a means of funding jobs. He never envisioned a central bank, much
less a foreign one, sold as the: " printer of last resort " becoming a Monopoly corrupting everything in sight beyond enforcement of the Anti Trust laws.
Americans need to learn not to abuse credit, live within their means, and
stop wasting natural resources equaly as they do finished products. As a
future national of Switzerland (who's lived there) , I sense until economics
, as civics, becomes the curricular mainstay of American elementary/high
school education, that the diploma mills will only turn out the brainwashed
capable of doing less and less, consuming more and more, as they recall
their grandparent's talk of an American dream they did'nt have to be asleep
to realize. I had parents as savvy as Albert Einsteins, w/o their education.
As Plato said: " Humans will always be dominated by tyrants until they activly
take an interest in politics " Caring is priceless beyond money. Sheeple can't
grasp that concept, but people can. It kills me people have become sheeple
by abrogating their duties & responsibilities so calvalierly. Falsely presuming
they can pay income taxes to let others preserve their Liberty then wondering
astonished at the dupicity & treachery of G people who CAN'T be paid to care.
We have direct Democracy in Switzerland. Citizens are expected to maintain
their own rifles there..

and who will buy us out? the IMF, WTO, take all our national parks and turn them into parking lots? We ARE the IMF WTO. I say call their bluff!!!! They make massive amounts of money either way. They are holding us hostage and it is black mail straight up. they want to kill FDR and LBJ legacys that is all this is about. Read shock doctrine.

I have no love for the IMF or the WTO, or the S&P or Moodys. It's alright with me, but just be prepared when gas is $10 a gallon and the price of a loaf of bread doubles. Because if our debt gets downgraded that is what will happen. Just saying.

Good quote, completely agree, but if ignorance can be educated when reason and awareness finally rule the day, why if reason obeys itself do we need additional law to confuse it?

Reason is and need not be litigated