Community | July 28, 2011 | 76 comments

THIS IS HUGE - As of 5:26 PM today. The House vote on Speaker Boehner's plan scheduled for tonight has been postponed indefinitely.

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wizardofoz
He didn't have the votes to pass it.

Boehner: ‘Beyond My Control’ How Ratings Agencies Treat My Debt Limit Plan
Brian Beutler | July 28, 2011, 2:46PM

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) doesn't sound all that confident that his debt limit bill would pass the smell test with credit ratings agencies, all of which are watching this debate closely.

TPM SLIDESHOW: Debt Negotiations At The White House
At his weekly Capitol briefing, a reporter asked him if he believed his legislation, if enacted would allow the U.S. to maintain its AAA credit rating. Boehner wouldn't bite. "That is beyond my control," he said. "All I know is that this bipartisan bill is as large a step as we're able to take at this point in time that is doable, and signable and to become law."
In a strictly literal sense, this is true -- it's not within his power to determine what Moody's or S&P does whenever this standoff ends. It's also worth noting that what the ratings agencies do is often inscrutable, can be arbitrary, and is not immune to outside pressures, as we saw in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. But it's a stretch for him to suggest his actions have no influence over what the agencies do: if he'd agreed to a "grand bargain" with President Obama, he'd confidently be able to predict the country's current rating would stand. If his plan didn't portend yet more debt limit brinksmanship in a few months, he'd be on firmer ground than he is now.

Boehner did tacitly acknowledge that his plan might change, though. Pressed whether his debt limit bill is a "take it or leave it" proposition for Democrats, Boehner would only say, "we have a reasonable responsible approach, there is no reason for anyone to object to it."

Asked whether the House would be in session this weekend, after (presumably) passing his plan, he said "sure."

So we'll have another round of this.
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76 comments // THIS IS HUGE - As of 5:26 PM today. The House vote on Speaker Boehner's plan scheduled for tonight has been postponed indefinitely.

  • Hardytoo
    • +2
      Hardytoo  
    • The key words to the above story: "...what the ratings agencies do is often inscrutable, can be arbitrary, and is not immune to outside pressures, as we saw in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis.:
      Christine LaGarde.the head of the IMF, spoke this week on BBC & CBC, outlining (actually signalling) what HAS to happen; what it boiled down to is "no more [effing] around." This is almost, repeat, almost, out of the US's hands. The downgrade could happen at any hour, no waiting until next wk. I find it startling and frightening, as I watch the Canadian dollar rise against the US dollar, thur bankrupting many of our manufacturers, and making our inflation rate leap up. We're all noticing that we simply can't afford the groceries we could last week!
      I'm learning so much here, and lighting many candles. Once around the beads, too. I love you all; keep up the calls and tweets or whatever way you can to communicate your displeasure to your reps - most of you have been doing that anyway, but don't quit until it's done. I do believe (only my opinion) that there will be a crisis (very very soon), likely caused by S&P, thru creating the reason to evoke the 14th Amenement. Bill Clinton said last week, words to the effect that he'd invoke the Amendment and then just let'em try to fire me. We need more fightin' words against the monster's roaring. Thanks to you all for letting me contribute (being Cdn I don't want to insert myself into your politics, altho I do follow religiously).
      Love you all.

    • 10 months ago
  • figgdimension
  • Hardytoo
  • wizardofoz
  • figgdimension
  • wizardofoz
    • +4
      wizardofoz  
    • Image
    • Practically Delusional
      David Kurtz | July 29, 2011, 11:08AM
      Rep. John Boehner (R-OH)
      Just minutes after President Obama urged the parties to come together and avert this default crisis, things are actually going backwards in the House. And in pretty incredible fashion.

      To secure enough votes from his own members for his plan, Speaker Boehner is amending it to basically turn it into Cut, Cap, and Balance Lite.

      Here's the key new provision that is apparently going to win enough GOP votes to pass the bill:

      The debt ceiling would be raised immediately but not by enough to get the government through next year. To get the second debt ceiling increase, House Republicans want a balanced budget constitutional amendment to pass both chambers first and be referred to the states.

      Never going to happen, but that's where we are. It makes you wonder if there's any compromise plan that can get through this House. That's why, even though my gut says there's no way the U.S. is stupid enough to default, I still can't see a clear, viable way out of this.

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
    • +4
      wizardofoz  
    • wizardofoz:

      Never going to happen, but that's where we are. It makes you wonder if there's any compromise plan that can get through this House. That's why, even though my gut says there's no way the U.S. is stupid enough to default, I still can't see a clear, viable way out of this.

      That's why they call it dysfunctional...

    • 10 months ago
  • chew_chew
    • +1
      chew_chew  
    • wizardofoz:

      "... I still can't see a clear, viable way out of this."

      It really is starting to look like the only real, possibly-doable option is for them to pass a clean debt ceiling increase. The longer they putter around with this political showboating, the less time there is to make anything happen, no matter how reasonable *all* of the professional politicians may think it is. If the debt ceiling is not raised, whether the actual default date winds up being Aug 2, or 3, or whatever, time really is running out.

      The weight, at the moment at least, is on Mr Boehner's shoulders, and his knees appear to be buckling under the strain.

    • 10 months ago
  • RonRoni
    • +3
      RonRoni  
    • They are basically raising Taxes on Middle Class by cutting our Social Security and Medicare (cutting our benefits and giving us less of our money that we put in to the system is same as taxing us), but they are not closing the tax loopholes for the Super Rich and corporations. Big Corporations are not only not paying almost any taxes, they are getting REFUNDS (Corporate Welfare). GE which made Billion of Dollars in 2010 not only did not pay almost any taxes but got $3.5 Billion refund and Obama asked his CEO to help him get rid of regulations to help Corporations more. Oil Companies are receiving $10 billion refunds every year.
      After Bush, Obama, Republicans and Democrats give our money to Big Banks, Wall Street and Super Rich and made the greatest transfer of wealth to the top that this country has ever experienced and raised the deficit now they are telling us we do not have any money and they have to cut all our safety nets. Can you believe it cutting tax loopholes and repelling Bush tax cut for super rich is not on table, they are the one that caused all this mass and again politicians with the help of Tea Party and mass media that all owned by big corporations are sticking it to middle class.
      The nationwide telephone poll, of 1,580 adults, was conducted on April 5 through 12, 2010. It showed 18% of people consider themselves believers in the Tea Party. But this supposedly Liberal Media which is run by big Corporations gives us the impression that they are in the majority. The Tea Party which was organized by Mass Media specially FOX News (Gleen Beck) and billionaires such as Koch brothers to allow the wealthiest elite and Big Corporations to gain even more power. Tea Party goal also is to destroy our public education, Social Security, and Medicare (socialism) which is Big Corporations and Super Rich’s objective. We are in trouble, our Freedom is in danger.
      This is all show, they are after our (Social Security) retirement money. Social Security supposes to have $2.6 Trillion Dollars surplus but politicians (Republicans and Democrats) use the money for other programs than our retirement. Now Obama, Republicans and Tea Party not only are not going to pay Social Security’s money back that they supposedly borrowed throughout the years they are going to cut our Social Security benefit which did not cause the deficit. Where you think these hug cuts will come from. Only Social Security, Medicare and Military budgets have this kind of money. Do you think they will cut military budget or our SS and Medicare which did not caused our deficits and suppose to have surplus?

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • DavidYates
  • wizardofoz
  • Paratus
    • -3
      Paratus  
    • At least he is doing something. The HOuse puts forth several bills, passes Cut, Cap and Balance but still we have nothing from the Senate but noise, nothing from Obummer, in fact his budget was defeated 97-0. We even have an administration whos position is that leadership is not coming up with a plan!! Explains a lot but does not help. Anyhow, Obummer and Reid are sitting on the sidelines whining about how the Republicans have to bring them the correct bill or they will not support it. They are exactly like a bunch of children with their arms folded, scowls on their faces, pouting about how we don't have anything yet. With two of the three groups disfunctional this will never get done.

    • 10 months ago
  • lazloman
  • Mark701
    • +4
      Mark701  
    • Paratus:

      First off, the budget is not Obama's responsibility but congresses. Second the Democratic Party has put forward several plans, all of which the GOP rejected. The GOP, or more precisely the Tea Party, is not interested in either a GOP plan or a Democratic one. To prove this point, Harry Reid even took one the GOPs plans and presented it to them--and they rejected it.

      The problem here is that the GOP has created a little Frankenstein called the Tea Party. Like Dr. Frankenstein, they've now lost control of their monster. Now it's threatening to destroy the entire country if the rest of congress doesn't yield to their temper tantrum. In my view anyone or any entity that deliberately tries to destroy the economic infrastructure of a nation, is a deadly enemy to that nation and should be arrested and tried for high treason. The old Soviet Union would have given anything to create a crisis like the one the Tea Party has contrived.

      All said, I doubt Obama will allow this to happen. (If he does, I'm taking him off my Christmas Card list). Come Monday if Congress can't pull it's head of it's ass he'll likely invoke the 14th Amendment, unilaterally raise the debt ceiling let the lawyers fight over the legality of it at the SCOTUS. It's either that, or we're toast.

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • Warren_Merrill
    • -2
      Warren_Merrill  
    • If any liberals think it's great Boehner's bill won't pass you won't like why. There are Republicans who want deeper cuts. This bill is was good as it's going to get.

    • 10 months ago
  • Frosty46
    • +3
      Frosty46  
    • Warren_Merrill:

      We know Warren. Give watching C-Span coverage of the house and Senate a good honest try. Do this with an open mind, listen, follow up on links and research------------you will be amazed and transformed--into a raving Liberal! May require not watching the Fox News Syndicate or listening to Glenn Beck or that basement masturbator Rush Limbaugh for a period of two weeks.

    • 10 months ago
  • lazloman
    • 0
      lazloman  
    • Warren_Merrill:

      That why I say they should just say screw the rethuglicans, pull the Reid plan off the table, invoke the 14th amendment and get the debt limit raised. Let the rethuglicans explain during the campaign next year why they need to gut the safety net.

    • 10 months ago
  • tverdell
  • Warren_Merrill
    • 0
      Warren_Merrill  
    • Frosty46:

      It's amazing the assumptions people make on this board. It's the same group of people who rave about all the left wing pundits. I don't watch the shows. I only listen to some on the radio when I happen to be in the car. Other than video clips on the internet I haven't watched a FOX show in months. I never listen to Beck. I think he's as insane and biased as Olbermann. I occasionally listen to Limbaugh. I prefer Dennis Prager who's in the same time slot.

    • 10 months ago
  • ThirdSection
  • Sarah_Honea
    • +2
      Sarah_Honea  
    • I think it is sadly interesting to know that watching C-span and curling up with a bucket of popcorn may become a new American pastime [Central and South America included]

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • ThirdSection
  • ZiggyStrange
  • ThirdSection
  • wizardofoz
    • +3
      wizardofoz  
    • BREAKING: NO VOTE TONIGHT

      House Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) just announced there will be no vote tonight on the Boehner debt bill.
      Despite a lot of confident talk from Boehner and his leadership team, it appears they never had the votes.
      — David Kurtz

    • 10 months ago
  • DudleyDooleft
  • Frosty46
    • +5
      Frosty46  
    • Good news this! I watched C-span today, both the house and Senate channels and on both I saw good Democrats fighting the good fight and calling out the scum Republicans with facts, links to researched information and stories of the dishonorable actions of the right. I saw Republican thugs lying, interrupting Dems and lying further.

      ODD we do not see honest coverage of this on MSNBC, ABC, and CBS,; not so odd FOX SYNDICATE shows only propaganda of the Reich.

      Guess Keith can't show clips of the fine speeches from C-span--have not seen them there either.

      This has lifted my spirits mightily and I'm a happy Liberal again. As to Obama and Reid-----------same right wing acts as all along their path to infamy!

      The Dems I saw today called a spade a spade and all talked of the attacks on Social Security and Medicare from the right.------(-with the sincere help of Obama---who actually mentioned it first as a bargaining point)-------I really do not like the man!

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • wizardofoz
    • +2
      wizardofoz  
    • Just raise the debt ceiling already!
      One interesting dynamic here is that this Republican House has foresworn earmarks, the type of baubles that come in very handy when it's time for horse-trading. That makes the art of persuasion more difficult for Boehner.
      — David Kurtz

    • 10 months ago
  • wolfess
    • +2
      wolfess  
    • Imagine the bender Boehner is going to go on when this is all finished :-) ... there are more than a couple of us that might join him >:-

    • 10 months ago
  • attilatheblond
  • wizardofoz
  • ArthurDent
  • wizardofoz
    • +2
      wizardofoz  
    • 07.28.2011 — 08:05 PM
      ADD ONE TO BOEHNER'S COLUMN

      Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX), who has been considered either undecided or a no vote for Speaker Boehner's debt plan, tells reporters he's now a yes vote.
      Does Boehner have the votes now? "Apparently not, or we'd be upstairs voting," Burgess said.
      As for Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), he told reporters, "I haven't changed my mind about anything ... I'm looking for a restroom, you gonna follow me in?" Franks is considered a "No" vote.
      — David Kurtz

    • 10 months ago
  • Georgia_Jim
  • Straighttalker
  • jim_b
  • wizardofoz
  • letsliveinpeace
  • SerialGramma
  • wizardofoz
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +6
      PoliticalAmazon  
    • I'm telling you, it has taken Obama and Boehner to appreciate what a magnificent House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was.

      If she decided to throw her hat in the presidential ring, I'd be volunteering at her offices 24/7.

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • attilatheblond
  • Leen61
    • +6
      Leen61  
    • Boner's plan couldn't even get the votes of his own party. This is a classic example of "live by the sword, die by the sword." He handed his political fortunes to the Tea Party and now they are having him for lunch. Good.

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • Leen61
  • warman1138
  • wizardofoz
  • ArthurDent
    • +3
      ArthurDent  
    • Saturday Night Live Skit:

      Boehner Is sitting in a hall way in congress just blubbering away after getting the debt vote through and being relieved its done. Tom Hanks walks up and says..Are you kidding me. There's no crying in congress!

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • ArthurDent
    • +8
      ArthurDent  
    • On August 2nd will we see.
      1. The President on National Television thanking the congress for getting the job done or
      2. Invoking the 14th amendment option calling out the extremist and showing "Boner" to be the idiot he is ?

      I bet Boner cries either way. Yes I know I'm misspelling it on purpose.

    • 10 months ago
  • Chukarhunter
  • wizardofoz
  • PoliticalAmazon
    • +3
      PoliticalAmazon  
    • Chukarhunter:

      Actually, that's how Boehner is pronounced....as Stephanie Miller says, when telling folks why she knows "boner" is the correct pronunciation:

      "I learned in Catholic school from the nuns "When two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking."

      So, there, to all the boner dissidents.

    • 10 months ago
  • Incredulous
    • +6
      Incredulous  
    • Who told him he could wear that tinfoil green tie with a blue shirt? Gawd, he looks more like the Grinch everyday.

      Oh, and sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeettttt!

    • 10 months ago
  • wizardofoz
  • PoliticalAmazon
  • wizardofoz
  • KB723
  • wizardofoz
  • wizardofoz
  • Wyley_Wombat
  • Hardytoo
    • +2
      Hardytoo  
    • wizardofoz:

      Lookin' at the shit-eatin' grin on Weasel Cantor, he's plotting again. He's probably trying to convince Boner to come for another drink, in the WHINE cellar (and Boner's never refused a free drink or ANY drink) and Cantor's got a shiv in that folder in his left hand. So it goes: it'll be "The Weasel" in the whine cellar, with a shiv to the Boner.
      We all win.

    • 10 months ago
  • ArthurDent
  • wizardofoz
  • wizardofoz
    • +7
      wizardofoz  
    • Image
    • He "thought" he new what he was doing.
      One of the reasons it was postponed...
      ‘IT WILL BE DEFEATED,’ Reid Says Senate To Kill
      Boehner Bill Tonight

    • 10 months ago
  • ArthurDent
  • ZiggyStrange
  • wizardofoz
  • kennymotown
  • wizardofoz
  • Wyley_Wombat
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