S & P Downgrades US Treasuries, DOW Gets Pummeled: Problem

The best example of double speak I've seen in a while. Toxic waste bonds are good? When will people learn to quit listening to bean counters? Good catch, Sandy.

What's to say that the ratings agencies aren't lying about our AAA bond rating? It's obvious that they're not to be trusted. But instead of them lying us down, I'm starting to wonder if they've been lying us up for years. And while we still have the power to print our way out of debt, it's becoming increasingly clear to me that our government is becoming ineffective at performing the most mundane of functions.

Two things I have ? about then...
1"The DOW, however, is dropping in response to the a global meltdown in the market not specifically to our rating drop. And our rating drop is not based on any kind mathematical equation, it's based on some sort of voodoo analysis of our political discord and our Congressional gridlock when issues arise." - Given that the global response is from many of the countries that own a great percetnage of US treasuries, I have to question this statement for example. According to the treasury, China alone onwns nearly a Trillion bucks worth. So I am wondering why you said that.

2 - "One thing does ring true, in regard to the downgrade and our political problems, is that the Tea Party anarchists are certainly changing the way government operates. The rest of the political apparatus need to come to terms with the intentions these morons and be cautious of their motives." - No - the anarchists are not as they do not participate in the governing bodies. The tea partiers however have changed govt for the time being. Ironically, most of them caved to their House Leader and compromised, leaving less then a handful who actually voted oppose to the debt deal. So in all actuallity, they hve not changed govt one iota - debate - form party lines - compromise - vote....Evn though advocating for less spending is definitely a plus. What would be even better is to deal with the poor spending that already occurs. Anytime the government controls something, it adds cost to it.

First of all, what does Tea Partier mean to you, and what does anarchist mean to you? What do you say about the fact that government is funded through the threat of imprisonment.... that it can tackle peaceful people and throw them in a cage for simply disagreeing...?

I think one reason Treasury Securities went up is anticipation that the rate of interest paid on them will increase as a result of the downgrade.

This leads me to wonder: How many of the people who call the shots at S&P hold Treasury bonds?

Not GOP talking points. The GOP is all about taking money from everyone else to fuel their embargoes, wars, nation building etc. Which all costs a major amount. As to a cut in taxes - well yes, there should be - because the more i get taxed the less money i have to buy biapers for my baby girl, and other necessities for my family. As covered in the article, taxes would have to be almost doubled to meet current govt spending levels, or incur debt.

""less through bond sales" ? oh really? then why is it that US treasury bond sales skyrocketed yesterday as common stocks dropped?"
Because the rest of the world still believes them to be a good buy for now despite the fact that the only way to cover then is to put more money into the system to fund them. Only way to do that is to raise taxes as the govt only provides services - it does not produce anything. Those who did still buy the bonds are doing the old buy low sell high, and hoping it pays off. Unfortunately, this will not be the case.

Also - bond sales occuring in one day do not a trend make. However I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Did you check the US treasury site to see if they were long term/short term? Actually lol, just did that. The long term bond sales fell (of course as they were the ones that were downgraded), and the short term went up. TYpically the longer term has the biggest overall payoff making them preferable to short term. This makes sense then give that the long term bonds are no longer so appealing.

GOP talking points?!? I think you are confused... neocon republicans are actually more aligned with your mentality of pillage and imprison. They too, unlike us, are government supporters. You see, us anarcho-capitalists would never use violence on peaceful people unlike you...

I find is sad that you have such a low opinion of government. We are a country of laws and a UNITED states supposedly pulling together in the direction of the common good of all.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America".

Governments are established to be governing bodies without which there would be chaos. Our government is, you might say, a "non-profit" organization whose revenue comes from taxes AND: (staight from Wikipedia - ease google search)

"Revenues from sales of state assets
Rents, concessions, and royalties collected by the state when it contracts out the right to profit from some good or service to a private corporation. An example are contracts for resource extraction (for such natural resources as minerals, timber, petroleum and natural gas, or marine resources) collected privately under license from state-owned lands
Fines collected and assets forfeitured as a penalty. Examples include parking fines, court costs levied on criminal offenders
Fees for the granting or issuance of permits or licenses. Examples include vehicle registration plate permits, vehicle registration fees, watercraft registration fees, building fees, driver's licenses, hunting and fishing licenses, fees for professional licensing, fees for visas or passports, fees for demolition, rezoning, and land grading (which causes silt), and sometimes for increasing stormwater runoff, destroying native vegetation, and cutting-down healthy trees.
User fees collected in exchange for the use of many public services and facilities. Tolls charged for the use of toll roads are an example"

The GOP in congress have been busy waging war and nation building without raising more revenue but instead ran the debt up and now want to pay for these incurred debts by cutting government services: pay fewer teachers less money, cut expenditures for senior medical care, reduce the food inspection staff of the FDA, don't replace crumbling buildings, roads or bridges etc etc etc.

yes, our taxes support our government, but there are other ways to raise revenues than just to raise tax rates. For instance:
1) how about putting people back to work - more working people, more income taxes.
2) elimination of subsidies to highly profitable energy companies
3) elimination of tax loop holes that allow large profitable corporations to pay NO taxes
4) actually collect those royalties on things like oil and gas
5) the average middle income Joe pays about 22% in taxes and the wealthiest pay 16%( http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/412106_federal_income_tax.pdf ), mostly because the bulk of income for the wealthy comes not from wages but from investments of one sort or another which are taxed at a much lower rate - this needs to be corrected

the debts were not incurred in a year, it is unrealistic to think they can and should be paid off in a year - it is a gradual process that doesn't mean doubling our taxes

this author also makes excuses for businesses moving operations overseas - this is NOT because our tax rates are too high but because they can get REALLY cheap labor and then import the goods back to the US without having to pay any tarrifs (free trade agreements)

lastly: "the only way to cover them (Tbonds) is to put more money into the system to fund them" uh, what?!! the purchasers are "fund[ing]" these bonds

because I don't believe as you believe then I am confused?
"mentalty of pillage and imprison" ?
"anarcho-capitalists would never use violence on peaceful people UNLIKE YOU" where exactly do you get that I support any sort of violence?

as for "anarcho-capital[ism]" - very eutopic thinking - as if you could get any large group of people to abide by that belief.
here are the two criticisms I find most accurate of your philosophy:

Robert Nozick argued in Anarchy, State and Utopia that anarcho-capitalism would inevitably transform into a minarchist state, even without violating any of its own nonaggression principles, through the eventual emergence of a single locally dominant private defense and judicial agency that it is in everyone's interests to align with, because other agencies are unable to effectively compete against the advantages of the agency with majority coverage. Therefore, he felt that, even to the extent that the anarcho-capitalist theory is correct, it results in an unstable system that would not endure in the real world. Paul Birch argues that as in the world today, legal disputes involving several jurisdictions and different legal system will be many times more complex and costly to resolve than disputes involving only one legal system. Thus, the largest private protection business in a territory will have lower costs since it will have more internal disputes and will outcompete those private protection business with more external disputes in the territory. In effect, according to Birch, protection business in territory is a natural monopoly.[1]
A criticism of Rothbard's version of anarcho-capitalism, in which certain fundamental natural rights will be followed, is that in the absence of a state which guarantee such rights, this idea is merely wishful thinking.[8] Critics argue that one can observe private protection organizations in practice in gang wars, where different gangs compete with each other on the same "turf" to "protect" their interests, causing high violence.[3] Another problem is that of externalities, such as pollution.[9]

about to?!? They have been...

Thanks - now if more people would understand exactly what is going here, things could actually start to really change - except for settling for the same thing over and over again - just like a broken record...

but most people believe in government taking care of them... it will be a hard shell to crack.

That's why I had to post this... just too good. Love it, very informative.

Thing is - will people start believing real facts over the mountains of media and their politicians rhetorical bull?

I think they might call the government on their BS more and more as their pocket book shrinks. Promises won't feed the baby.

and yet you want us to believe the GOP BS rhetoric you have posted here

It is not GOP BS rhetoric, and the sources are cited in the article. This is the second time you have attacked this article without actually debating the content with anything more then name calling and accusations. Just saying.

GOP rhetoric?!? Man, you are so confused it isn't even funny... it's violent people like you (people like you who throw peaceful people in cages for not paying their extortion to the mafia "taxes") who are closer to the GOP than I will ever be... You see, us anarchists would never use violence on peaceful people who simply disagree... unlike you, who support a system which is only funded through such means. You republicans/democrats should be ashamed of yourselves...

When people don't have facts, they turn to name calling... they can't even understand how taxation is a threat of tackling my grandma and throwing her in a cage even if she has never infringed on anyone else.

and the follow up article: http://peacefreedomprosperity.com/5479/s-p-downgrades-us-treasuries-dow-gets-pum...