Community | September 05, 2011 | 104 comments

Audit: USPS spent $4M on 'nothing'

source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62233.html

Image
shanklinmike
The U.S. Postal Service, which expects to lose $7 billion this year, spent $4.3 million on employees who did nothing...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62233.html
  1. groups:
    Community,   Liberty
  2. tags:
    Economy,  War,  World,  Government,  36 more
  3.     
    |

104 comments // Audit: USPS spent $4M on 'nothing'

  • CreditFigaro
    • +2
      CreditFigaro  

    • shanklinmike and other libertarians: "Free market capitalism blah blah blah..."

      "it's never existed before blah blah blah..."

      Free market capitalism is A) Self contradictory and B) horrifying.

      A) Definition of free market capitalism: "a free-price system where supply and demand are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by the government. Productive enterprises are privately-owned, and the role of the state is limited to protecting property rights."

      Two main requirements, here:

      a) Protecting property rights
      b) supply and demand are allowed to reach equilibrium without intervention by the government

      If the government has to protect property rights, how does it do that without resources? You have to have courts, police and military. Without those, you don't have protection of property rights, and they all cost money.

      That means, in order to protect property rights, you have to "confiscate" taxes. You can't allow everything to fall into equilibrium if you have to take taxes out, no matter how you slice it.

      B) equilibrium without intervention of government looks pretty terrible, to me.

      People aren't robots, they can't walk away from every transaction. They HAVE to do something for basic human needs. That means that an individual has to play ball against a vast number of large corporations without any kind of assistance or live a life of economic solitude where they have to produce everything from scratch. The corporations will compete, at first, but form natural monopolies without government intervention as the winners start gobbling up the losers.

      People will only have property rights protected to the degree that the corporations offer them deals they cannot refuse (particularly when it comes to health care, food and other essentials).

      And what about people who don't have ANY property, other than their bodies (labor)? When labor is so cheap and plentiful, they won't be able to buy bare essentials with their day's work, they will probably negotiate deals with large corporations to work ridiculous hours for a roof over their heads and food in their bellies. (sounds a lot like a plantation, to me)

      The only other option that workers would have is to organize into groups in order to be able to play in the same league as the large corporations. This large union would, essentially, reduce competition on the labor side, all the while the monopolies are reducing competition on the production side. The large corporations, however, can do whatever they want to bust the unions because everything but protection of property rights is off the table. Like living under the mafia.

      The "free market equilibrium" is an absolute, wasteful disaster... Even IF you could protect property rights for free.

      In short, you guys are wrong and the ideal world you believe in is a complete NIGHTMARE.

    • 9 months ago
  • NickerBocker09
    • +2
      NickerBocker09  

    • For real... where did all of these neo-con tea party freaks come from?!!

      Post is a public service people. the Public Service's duty is NOT TO MAKE A PROFIT. If USPS didnt exist the corporations would never lower their prices due to "fair competition" because its obvious that the prices we currently get with USPS dont create much of a profit.

      I have an idea. Require the corporations to pay their taxes instead of waiting for a tax holiday and if they dont then we dont allow them to operate in this country and instead hand over their US operations to a corporation or company THAT DOES pay the taxes. All that money should pay for the USPS a few times over.

    • 9 months ago
  • Persecuted
    • +2
      Persecuted  

    • i wonder how much money bank of american and exxon wasted last year... yet we give them all the money they want and ask for nothing in return

    • 9 months ago
  • DDJohnAdams
    • 0
      DDJohnAdams  
    • Persecuted:

      And how much money did our federal government waste?
      Will we bail out yet another failing institution?
      80% of the postal service's cost is labor, as compared with only 53% at UPS and 32% at FedEx. It also cites that postal workers get more generous health benefits than even most other federal employees. The Postmaster said they may need to lay off 120,000 workers, among other cost cutting measures like closing 3,700 post offices, but there's one major problem: the American Postal Workers Union. The union has vowed that layoffs are illegal under their contract, and they will fight hard against layoffs.

    • 9 months ago
  • DDJohnAdams
  • Conniepae
    • 0
      Conniepae  
    • Image

    • Have you seen this? http://www.opednews.com/articles/Destroying-the-Postal-Serv-by-Chuck-Zlatkin-110...
      Destroying the Postal Service in Order to Save It?

      The big lie seems to be working. Most Americans now believe that the U.S. Postal Service is on the verge of a financial collapse. The explanation seems logical: email, too many post offices, unnecessary six-day delivery, overpaid and underproductive workers. Unfortunately, these are half-truths, misinformation or outright lies.

      It is true that the nature of mail has changed because of the Internet but it is also true that three biggest years in volume in the 236-year history of the Postal Service were 2005, 2006 and 2007, well into the Internet era. The bigger impact upon the Postal Service was the financial collapse of 2008.

      But the root cause of the financial distress that the Postal Service is going through is overwhelmingly caused by Congressional mandates that were imposed upon the Postal Service. Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA), which was signed into law by President G.W. Bush on December 20, 2006. Under the guise of modernizing the Postal Service for the 21st Century, it actually doomed the Postal Service. If not for the PAEA, the Postal Service would be functioning fine even with the impact of email and the financial collapse of 2008.

      One of the provisions of the PAEA was to mandate that the Postal Service fully pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and to do it within a ten-year window. This means that the Postal Service is required to send to the U. S. Treasury $5.5 billion each September 30. Remember, this is to pay for the future retirement health benefits of people who haven't even been born yet. The Postal Service is the only entity that is mandated by law to do this. No government agency, corporation or organization is required to fully pre-fund future retirees' health benefits.

      But that is not the worst of it. Both the Postal Service's Office of Inspector General (OIG) and the independent Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) commissioned audits to look into possible overpayments that the Postal Service has made into the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). Both audits show that the Postal Service has overpaid at least $50 billion into the pension fund over the years.

      ..... Just another American asset, that corporate America wants to own? They hate government so much, they want to own it all. Leaving us victims to their greed and misdeeds.

    • 9 months ago
  • Polochick09
    • 0
      Polochick09  
    • Conniepae:

      I don't want corporate America to own anything... corporations are an offshoot of statism only. In real freedom, there are no government licensed, backed, and protected corporations, as there is no government to create them.... just fair competition in a free market that has to answer to the people directly, on a daily basis.

      Why the trouble seeing the third, ethical option?!? No corporations, AND no violent statism on peaceful people?!? Why do you have to point government guns at peaceful people?!? Why the call for war on peaceful people?!?

    • 9 months ago
  • NickerBocker09
  • unimatrix0
  • shanklinmike
    • +1
      shanklinmike  
    • unimatrix0:

      LOL, look at the comment section on this youtube video... this bitch got pawned!!! LMFAO!!!

      We don't care about health?!? This is the best defense against your violence?!? Against your statism slavery?!? This is the best you can do?!?

      LMFAO, thanks for helping us convert even more people unimatrix.... Yeah, Iraq and Somalia's governments are anarchist... gotcha. LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO!!!

      Thanks again for making such weak arguments and for allowing yourself to get owned live for everyone to see!

      STOP POINTING GOVERNMENT GUNS AT PEACEFUL PEOPLE!!! WE DON'T NEED YOUR VIOLENT MONOPOLIES TO HAVE PEACE AND PROSPERITY! QUITE THE OPPOSITE!

    • 9 months ago
  • bbar
  • shanklinmike
    • 0
      shanklinmike  

    • The FACTS:

      USPS loses billions a year (with a B). UPS makes Billions a year.
      You think the USPS is run better?
      Also, besides the fact of the difference of profit, UPS pays property tax, USPS doesn't. UPS pays taxes on profits, when USPS does have a profit, there's no tax. UPS pays parking tickets, USPS doesn't receive them by law. USPS can put, by law, small pkgs into the mail box I bought, UPS, by law, can't. Even with all the subsidies, even with all the laws on their side,... USPS loses money!!!

      USPS is just another failure straw on statism's camel back.

    • 9 months ago
  • NickerBocker09
    • +2
      NickerBocker09  
    • shanklinmike:

      You forgot to say how USPS is required to pay health benefits 75 years in advance. UPS Isnt. So USPS is spending 5.5 billion dollars on people that arent even born yet. Its a mandate that Bush put into place to "modernize" USPS aka kill it.

      Also USPS's job isnt to make a profit. Post is a public service dude. All the postal companies walked into the market KNOWING full well about this fact and have no room to complain (especially considering they are making profits). I dont get what your issue is. USPS is obviously not hurting private businesses since UPS and other companies are making profits.

    • 9 months ago
  • aj727b
    • 0
      aj727b  
    • NickerBocker09:

      You are 100% correct about that, the USPS is massively overpaying for their benefit pool due to a statutory requirement that nobody else has. Reagan pioneered putting rules on agencies specifically to make them dysfunctional (what Reagan did at EPA especially took years to fix). Bush just took this play from the Gipper's play book and used it to screw the USPS as much as he could. I hope others reading the comments get it, but I don't imagine the libertarians will listen to facts. You shouldn't bother using facts deeper than superficial "bumper-sticker" ideas with most of these libertarian guys. Other than calling people b-tches and parroting Ron Paul pamphlets, and posting threads without actual meat below the BIG HEADLINES these guys have very little to offer and very little idea of what is going on beyond the pamphlets/blogs they get their sound bites from.

    • 9 months ago
  • unimatrix0
  • shanklinmike
    • +1
      shanklinmike  
    • unimatrix0:

      Gotta love it, after 50 years of communist destruction and UN, IMF, and government statist run rampant... it's voluntaryism that takes the blame?!? Give me a fucking break... great propaganda though! Keep on pointing those government guns at peaceful people...

    • 9 months ago
  • Polochick09
  • shanklinmike
  • shanklinmike
  • NickerBocker09
  • hombre76
    • +5
      hombre76  

    • what I love in all these discusions about the profit magin of the USPS is that it is the only government agency writen into the constitution besides the three branches of government. which means that it is not subject to congressional aproval or that it make a profit. it is a constitutionaly mandated service that must be provided to the american people. in fact it is this mandate which alowed the many roads we drive upon to be finaced by tax dollars so as to facilitate the dilivery of the mail also in its charter. frankly in my opinion the constitusion also empowers the postal service to run for the benifit of the nations citizens a cost controlled phone and internet provider as they are responcible not just for mail they are responcible for providing comunication to the nation at resonable cost.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -5
      shanklinmike  
    • hombre76:

      The Constitution enables statism slavery... what makes you think these violent monopolies are so efficient and moral?!? The fact that they lie to you and tell you they are sustainable means you just turn off your brain?!? I don't understand why you have to point government guns at peaceful people.... why throw people in jail if they want to provide services better than the government monopoly?!? Why point guns at peaceful people for this violent;y funded (government subsidized) monopoly?!?

    • 9 months ago
  • hombre76
    • +2
      hombre76  
    • shanklinmike:

      If you dont like the constitutional foundations of this nation feel free to get lost and find one you like somalia and guatimala spring to mind. we are not going to cange this one to suit your finacial wet dreams.

    • 9 months ago
  • Persecuted
  • Persecuted
  • BrushwithDeathToothpaste
    • +3
      BrushwithDeathToothpaste  

    • Actually the postal service should not be for profit. A basic non profit postal delivery system is key to a strong nation. Larger packages and fast delivery should be left to private industry; but basic mail should be a service that is always available to citizens at a modest price.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -2
      shanklinmike  
    • BrushwithDeathToothpaste:

      Yeah, it should be run for losses.... gotcha. lol Well you guys are doing a great job!!! Keep up those billion dollar losses that could be efficiently spent in the economy building jobs.

      If you "believe" mail should be a basic service for all, get out there with your own money and fund it... stop pointing guns at peaceful people to steal their money to spend it on inefficient monopolies. Thanks for your "beliefs".... but I will take the nonaggression principle and peace instead. You can keep the statism domestic war...

    • 9 months ago
  • aj727b
    • 0
      aj727b  
    • shanklinmike:

      I don't see any of the people you rant at pointing guns at anyone... And certainly nobody is forcing you to participate in American society... If you truly feel that all of the roads and schools and everything else here is a form of slavery by the state, you can indeed find places still without that kind of problem. There are areas without rule of law where you will not need to worry about any "statist pointing guns at you"... Of course, you DO have to worry about rival warlords killing you or enslaving you in their army... but at least you won't have the distasteful LAWS...

    • 9 months ago
  • kvb1
    • -4
      kvb1  

    • Once again it is the "fault" of the workers. If the government would allow the postal service to make a profit to pay for future expenditures, there would be less down time due to equipment or computer failures. It is the fault of Congress for writing the USPS reauthorization Act of 1970 they way they did. If the postal service could compete on the same playing field as UPS or FedEx, they would not be hampered by inefficiency. UPS has union representation among its employees, yet it turns a profit every year. UPS is not hampered by how much it can charge its customer like the postal service.

    • 9 months ago
  • bluestranger
    • +3
      bluestranger  

    • Those nasty old government entities. Get rid of them. Then,instead of $.48 per letter we can pay UPS and Fed-Ex $5.00 to deliver. Good Ol' freemarket capitalism.

    • 9 months ago
  • Polochick09
    • -4
      Polochick09  
    • bluestranger:

      How do you know the true cost of delivering mail?!? There is no feedback system at the Post Office so they will never truly know... prices could be cheaper as the government's monopoly is broken up.... interesting how everyone has great shoes without 1 government shoe factory...

    • 9 months ago
  • bluestranger
    • +3
      bluestranger  
    • Polochick09:

      Ups was founded in 1907. How much more feedback do you need? Go to UPS and tell them you want to ship a penny to the next block for $.48 and see how long it takes them to laugh you out of their office. Let's keep it simple.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -3
      shanklinmike  
    • bluestranger:

      LMFAO! Wow, you completely missed her point! UPS?!? Who the fuck is talking about UPS?!? We are talking about USPS!!! What she is saying is that because of the government's monopoly and price setting, we will never know the true competitive, voluntaryist cost of delivering a postage letter down the street, or anywhere. You know why they will laugh at you?!? Because the government will not allow UPS and Fedex to get into mail postage (they do this by mandating prices for competitors) and the government has a monopoly on small postage. Not only that, the true cost of shipping a package down the street through USPS is MUCH more than 50 cents... so in other words, some people are being forced to pay for other people's mailing costs in a bankrupt monopoly. If I told you the government could steal Iraqi oil and give it to the people for 10 cents a gallon, does that make it right?!? That is basically what is happening... except most people don't pick up guns to fight off the aggressors like they did in Iraq and like they are doing in Afghanistan right now... USPS is built upon threats of violence on peaceful people who simply disagree... if you try to compete against their taxpayer subsidization.... then you go to jail. Fuck that slavery, I will take competitive free choice over slavery anyday.... you can keep the threats of aggressive violence on peaceful people... count me out of your violent monopoly.

    • 9 months ago
  • bluestranger
    • 0
      bluestranger  
    • shanklinmike:

      Where and when did the government mandate delivery prices? Sharing peoples mailing cost drives the prices down. Just as sharing medical cost and getting rid of the insurance companies would drive down medical cost.

    • 9 months ago
  • Nick19
    • +2
      Nick19  

    • This blabbing about statism is making me lose brain cells. I'm a historian so I know what I'm talking about when I say that the creation of governments is a process that has been going on since the dawn of agrarian societies. You cannot turn that process on it's head and reject the notion of government. Its like saying Globalization should be rejected despite it being a process since the Crusades up to now. The establishment of empire was the earlier form of large governing bodies and soon, the nation-state concept came into fruition as the introduction of cannons in places like Europe gave centralized authority greater control over aristocrats whose authority was established via walled fortifications. I could go all day with this honestly.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -3
      shanklinmike  
    • Nick19:

      I LOVE globalization (where people come together), I HATE government globalization (corporatism through government protectionism, lobbying, mandate, and special advantage,... not to mention government liability for its government created corporations...)

      Chain slavery was also around since the start of recorded history.... does that mean that we should have never waged an educational battle against chain slavery just because "its been going on since the dawn of society."?!?

      Sorry, but you will not get me to point guns and use threats of AGGRESSIVE violence on peaceful people who simply disagree,... you will not get me to support statism slavery.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCZImLm10d8

    • 9 months ago
  • Vic_Romano
  • shanklinmike
  • aj727b
    • 0
      aj727b  
    • Nick19:

      You could go all day... and yet it would be as if you never said a word: they will not understand what you say. But I know what you mean about a headache... it is like when you are writing a thesis in political science and a guy from the Lyndon Larouche campaign is loudly berating your neighbor outside your open window. You may know that it is just nuttiness with no basis in reality, but you feel you must drop your work to argue with him just in case somebody might overhear his misinformed warped worldview. Well... I gotta get back to pointing my guns at more peaceful innocents like Shanklin Mike over there (I shouldn;t say that... he'll be pointing to it as "proof of my statist fascism" or some such drivel...

    • 9 months ago
  • Bex_Libertas
  • CalgarC
  • Lisayou
  • shanklinmike
  • shanklinmike
  • Lisayou
    • +1
      Lisayou  
    • shanklinmike:

      Ending ALL SUBSIDIES would be super. Everyone paying their fair share would be a great idea as well.
      • Close all loopholes
      • Tax churches
      • Remove the social security cap

      And by the way I was just sending some truth your way about the USPS.
      So don't be a hater!

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -1
      shanklinmike  
    • Lisayou:

      Agreed, close all government loopholes, ....but that is just about it. I don't want any compulsion/forced taxes at all... not even on churches (and I am an atheist)... nor do I want to steal money from people to put into a bankrupt social security fund so the government can bomb more innocent children overseas...

      Oh, and the USPS was created in the late 1700s.... not quite sure why you listed when UPS was created... that had nothing to do with my inquiry as to USPS's flawed feedback system.

      Not hating... lol

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
  • Lisayou
  • CreditFigaro
    • +4
      CreditFigaro  

    • First of all, in federal dollar terms, this is insignificant.

      Second, it wasn't spent on nothing. This is an employee benefit designed to provide an incentive to work at the post office... so I guess that's only ok when companies use that excuse to compensate executives ridiculous amount of money, though, right?

      Third, the money went into the pockets of the lower middle class, so it was hardly a wasted expenditure.

      The USPS has, in my experience, provided far better service than FedEx or UPS. They are only "losing money" because the actual cost of a stamp would have to be twice as much. It's a subsidy.

      Now, I do believe that there is a discussion to be had about whether the post office is a necessary expenditure anymore. This story, however, is designed to make people think "oh rapture! the USPS is WASTEFUL SPENDING!!!"

      That's just not true, and if this is the best you've got, you are up a creek, shanklin.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
  • Van_Bryant
    • -6
      Van_Bryant  
    • CreditFigaro:

      What private companies offer their executives has no bearing on this discussion, and makes for a ridiculous comparison. The USPS would collapse if it wasn't propped up through taxation.

      Paying people money to do nothing is always a wasted expenditure. Trading nothing for something is theft, and theft destroys value.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -3
      shanklinmike  
    • Van_Bryant:

      There is no such thing as a private company in statism. Private is impossible in forced public situations. The government always has a hand in corporatism and has created the corporatist sector you despise today. If it wasn't for statism, we could have real free market businesses competing over efficient, versus competing for government lobbying and protectionism. A private firm can do whatever it wants, although it might go out of business and be replaced with a more efficient operation. The truth is, there are no private businesses in statism, as everything is always being manipulated by the political sector one way or another. But yes, I can see how your government created, protected, and backed corporations are against individual rights/anarchy as well....

    • 9 months ago
  • Nick19
    • +2
      Nick19  
    • shanklinmike:

      Yes well all companies need security...even somali pirates need security and thats partially the reason why we have nation-states. Companies do have certain subsidies and support from the government but, thats mainly the result of those companies having so much fucking money to spend on buying up the government. Even without those subsidies and regulations, they would still be better off. Then again...why am I typing a logical response to an illogical individual....

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -4
      shanklinmike  
    • Nick19:

      Nation-states are aggressors, not defenders. Every nation state is an assault on peaceful people who simply disagree. It is a gang, a mob, and it rules through fear. THAT is what statism is... not so rosy, efficient, well meaning defender. If there were no nation states, what would we need big armies for?!? Think of all the money wasted in statism slavery that could be passed on to the economy to create more EFFICIENT jobs. There is a huge difference between security and government monopolies on security.

      Oh, and thanks for the childish insult... you just help my case more and more everyday. ;)

    • 9 months ago
  • Nick19
    • +1
      Nick19  
    • shanklinmike:

      The welfare state created via an evolving capitalist system provided a system of incentive and hence, not ruling by fear but via incentives. The rise of nation-states isn't rosy of course but neither before it. History has never been a rosy picture as leaders and groups have always clashed and back stabbed one another. There has never been a point in history where everything was utopian by any stretch of the imagination. Alas, I could make a drinking came every time you typed the word Statism. You cannot deny a historical process that has been happening since the establishment of agrarian societies. When an agrarian society establishes a surplus in food supply, specialization occurs and soon we have people doing other work including be a religious authority or being the main chief elder and eventually king of a town. That evolves constantly until population size provides an incentive to expand in order to obtain resources from weaker villages nearby. We soon have the creation of the very first empires such as the Babylonian empire taking over the smaller Sumarian city states. I'm not going to continue as my comment would cover this entire comment section.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
  • Polochick09
  • Nick19
  • Polochick09
  • unimatrix0
  • artemis6
  • aj727b
  • Johnny_Los_Angeles
    • 0
      Johnny_Los_Angeles  

    • Maybe this was so they could keep the employees for when they needed them? And who cares? The postal service is NOT repeat NOT paid for by taxes so they can do what they feel they need to.

    • 9 months ago
  • DDJohnAdams
  • shanklinmike
  • AFunkiMan
  • artemis6
  • Vic_Romano
    • 0
      Vic_Romano  

    • At least the friggin' Constitution gives Congress the authority to establish the Postal Service.

      But I imagine that the supreme law of the land doesn't really matter to anarchists.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
  • DDJohnAdams
  • shanklinmike
    • -5
      shanklinmike  
    • DDJohnAdams:

      What does that even mean?!? ALL statism requires threats of aggressive coercion on peaceful people who simply disagree. I DO understand the Constitution... it is a form of political statism that has trapped us to a "good government"... something that cannot exist. There is no such thing as good slavery... and the Constitution only brainwashes more people into politics than pulling people into reality....

      I understand statism slavery more than most... how does your comment debunk anything I said?!? Everything I said is true... the Constitution allows for taxation theft... count me out. I did not sign that document, nor do I support its threats of aggressive violence on peaceful people who simply disagree.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGq_1710U4

    • 9 months ago
  • Nick19
    • +1
      Nick19  
    • shanklinmike:

      THEN GO TO SOMALIA THEN! There isn't a constitution in place or anything of a sort. The perfect place for you to go. Stop being a coward and go live in Somalia already since it lacks any legit authority or any true governing body that constitutes a nation-state.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -4
      shanklinmike  
    • Image
    • Nick19:

      Yeah right, Somalia a model for anarcho-capitalism?!? That has got to be the weakest correlation I have ever seen...Somalia is under UN threat and infiltrated and controlled by surrounding statist countries and the IMF government world-wide central bank... they have more statism than people give them credit for.... although, since breaking away from deadly communism, they are beginning to do much better. If only they could get rid of the rest of the governments that are trying to pull them back down...

      The political statism slavery just won't stop in Somalia... the statists are trying to regain control over the unethical system called statism in this region... statism is alive and well in Somalia, so don't believe the cheap lines that say Somalia is an anarcho-capitalist society... pure bullshit propaganda.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Somalia

    • 9 months ago
  • Nick19
    • +1
      Nick19  
    • shanklinmike:

      Large drought and famine doesn't seem to make things better. Rather delusional. Somaliland is actually doing much better as it has security services and a thriving economy. Puntland is also doing better than the rest of Somalia as well. They have more modern buildings and better infrastructure than the lawless south of the country which remains in constant conflict.

    • 9 months ago
  • Polochick09
    • -3
      Polochick09  
    • Nick19:

      Somalia is still controlled by a government... and communism over 50 years helped bring it to this point... not free market voluntaryism and peaceful interaction. What in the heck are you talking about?!? It's like you actually believe there is no government in Somalia, while governments all over the world are trying to take advantage and move in on it.... you make no sense because we can see right through the "Somalia is anarchy" bullshit.... with FACTS! Somalia DOES have a government, and they are no where close to anarcho-capitalism.... way too many brainwashed statists still in this world.

    • 9 months ago
  • unimatrix0
  • artemis6
  • alexandrek
  • shanklinmike
  • alexandrek
  • shanklinmike
  • NickerBocker09
    • +1
      NickerBocker09  
    • shanklinmike:

      shanklinkmike you grew up in a rock. We live in a society with a government. The government is not some foreign object that looks down upon you. It is an elected government that you take part in. Post is a public service, public services shouldnt be aimign to make a profit. If USPS didnt exist corporations would never charge as low as USPS "did" because they wouldnt be making much a profit now would they?

    • 9 months ago
  • 2necedemalis
  • Paulusmj
    • -3
      Paulusmj  

    • I wonder how efficiently an item could be sent by a fully private concern if it were not mandated that anyone competing with tht USPS charge six times the rate the postal service charges.

    • 9 months ago
  • Jennifer_Durham
  • DDJohnAdams
  • hammywill
  • Paulusmj
  • Paulusmj
  • hammywill
  • kennymotown
    • +7
      kennymotown  

    • The USPS is still the best deal for mailing a letter or a package, where else can you send a letter for 50 cents anywhere in the world. I can't imagine sending out my bills Via FedX or UPS for 10 bucks to get the same service!

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -3
      shanklinmike  
    • Image
    • kennymotown:

      Yeah, you know why they can do that?!? Because they have oligopolized the market and are bleeding money... Who knows what a competitive, free society in postal services could produce... the sustainable price could be cheaper, could be higher. The point is, that is for the people in a voluntary market to discover.

      http://mises.org/daily/1471

    • 9 months ago
  • alexandrek
  • kennymotown
  • shanklinmike
    • -3
      shanklinmike  
    • alexandrek:

      Actually, if they want to live in that location, then it is fair. What is fair?!? It is NOT fair to point guns at peaceful people and threaten to throw them in prison if they do not fund your monopoly postal service. THAT is not fair. People having different rates according to location costs is perfectly normal and healthy for market signals. Heck, hopefully another company (DHL) can come in and offer these services cheaper....

      Fair?!? Give me a break. STATISM is not "fair".

    • 9 months ago
  • tverdell
    • +4
      tverdell  
    • shanklinmike:

      Agreed, we should get rid of the USPS if they are not profitable.
      Let the free market create a mailing service.

      Of course this applies to banks and oil companies that also get government handouts.

    • 9 months ago
  • Polochick09
  • hammywill
    • 0
      hammywill  
    • shanklinmike:

      When they were not a quasi-private entity they were fine. Now that they are quasi-private they have had all sorts of problems.

      They're also the only agency explicitly allowed by the US Constitution.

    • 9 months ago
  • shanklinmike
    • -1
      shanklinmike  
    • hammywill:

      You can keep your violent piece of parchment paper... the Constitution,... not into slavery myself...

      Oh, and there is no such thing as quasi-private.... either it is private, or it is not.... either you are pregnant, or you are not... either you are mentally challenged, or you are not.... there is no quasi-private anything... at that point it is basically publicly controlled, sanctioned, and under threat of seizure at any time.... there is nothing private (individual rights/voluntaryism) about quasi-private institutions.... they are still in bed with statism.

      Just like you can't have true free market capitalism with governments.... the two are a dichotomy. For one to exist, the other must not.

    • 9 months ago
  • hammywill
12
1 - 100 of 104
more from Community:
from the community

top videos