wow you can use internets!!!! CAN I HAZ INTERNETS TOO????

oh and look DEEP for who is funding me....

"Never seen such propaganda."

Right, as you have never seen the truth of the world. Please go watch "The American Dream" Film so you can understand what is happening in your world around you.

http://Current.tv

I'm impressed that the people that own this site allow people like you to post on here, really impressed by the maturity of the owners of Current.tv for allowing garbage like you to spread your lies and deceit.

Maybe you should pay me to spread doubt about global warming trust me I'd do a really good job.

You seem to be completely oblivious to your own horrendous behavior on this page. Perhaps you should be impressed that they allow YOU to be here.

now you are simply revealing how incompetent you seem to be. Keep trying!

it's called being smart and removing your info from information sharing sites like spokeo and such.

are you going to get a life yet?

And what I am saying, is that what you are accusing me of, risking millions or billions dying, THAT IS EXACTLY AND SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU ARE RISKING BY PROMOTING THIS CO2 ISSUE

Implementing these carbon taxes as will be rolling out all over the world will ASSUREDLY KILL MILLIONS. Those living on pennies a day.... see when we are affected negatively here financially, it affects the rest of the world. And those that are really bad off in third world countries will feel it if carbon taxes go into place.... currently we have 20,000 plus dying a day from illnesses that can be fixed for pennies. This number will EXPLODE if Gore, Maurice Strong, and the Rothschilds get their way and get carbon taxes rolled out all over the world.

You and this carbon garbage is going to lead to carbon taxes in the US.... which is the FINAL STRAW the current paradigm of death of human production and industry.

Please, learn how the world works by following good alternative media sources. Your mainstream garbage paradigms are leading to the end of humanity as we know it. Synthetic separation. When the control system can put consumption based taxes on something like CO2, this is called a scientific dictatorship and this is NOT what humanity needs right now.

We need to end the wars and get America saving, manufacturing, and buying.

just found 16 david haynie's in california right away. Not including me as I have specifically removed my info from information sharing sites. Learn how to use the Internet, thx.

You can't remove yourself from the internet.

AD Hominem

nope, I am simply presenting a fact, not a rebuttal to any argument. Ad hominem is a logical fallacy type. I am not trying to connect any previous issues to these links, they stand for themselves. Anything else? Any facts to come as a rebuttal to my links?

the only person to have a post removed from this thread is you.

Fine then I will flag all of your replies now.

here ill do you a favor since you seem to like to say ad hominem and ILL LABEL EVERY SINGLE ONE of your ad hominems, maybe you will learn something, Ape.

Your post this one AD HOMINEM not about co2 or global warming about money wtf?

"you are flailing flailing flailing but you don't understand YOU ARE WRONG

You are supporting a paradigm being put in place by big oil, Gore is with Occidental Petroleum, don't you understand that?

I am telling you that this argument is being ripped apart at the highest levels of government right now. If you truly think we can control this planet's cycles, you are basically a psychopath.

Learn something:"

Is an Ad Hominem attack moron.

"STOP AD HOMINEM" everything you fucking write is an ad hominem

I don't treat my dog with respect there's no reason I should treat you with any respect your fucking beyond stupid, it's a miracle that you can even read and write properly. If you want to continue arguing science go live like the animal you are in the jungle where you belong. People like you do not deserve technology.

AD Hominem

hehe I love it when sheep claw and grasp at their false reality.

Seriously, you don't understand how this planet is being run, and by whom.

This is just funny for me. Once you have broken free and can see clearly how the left right paradigm is a false paid joke, everything becomes clear. There are millions of people around the world that have awoken to the New World Order. You obviously haven't and it will lead to hard times and despair for yourself and your family unless you prepare.

Keep calling me all the names you want, keep up the nonsense, you don't realize how many people are seeing this. I run a media outlet and I direct a lot of news and traffic.

Are you going to ever address any points I make, or simply just flail flail flail?

Keep getting harsher and harsher, it only deducts from your credibility further and further.... and by now, your credibility doesn't even exist.

guy, your reply makes absolutely no sense when you don't explain it. These points have nothing to do with CO2, you are just showing how much of a psychopath you are by implying that we can 'fix' this idea of global warming. You have asked me if I have graduated high school and can speak English.... can you clearly articulate your points and ideas? Isn't seeming that way.

Ad Hominem

"GLOBL POLTITICAL AWAKENING!!!!! CONTROL SYSTEM!!!!!"
Ad hominem grow Brain cells hypocrit.

wow. keep clawing and grabbing and grasping for your false reality.

Sad that you have no idea what is happening in the world.

Hello David,

Looks like its down to just you and me on this old thread. That's okay by me, but we'll have to back up a little because everything you've said isn't necessarily at odds with mine.

"The world is heating up and goes through CYCLES."

Agree.

"The vast majority of scientists holding the highest degree in their field is a rule by authority logical fallacy. I'm not respecting it or buying it, because we don't know who's bought them... whomever 'they' might be."

Not exactly certain what you are getting at here. I think you are saying something like just because a vast majority of scientist say its true, then does not mean it is be true. If I felt that this were all there was to base a claim I might feel the same way. However, I don't put faith in what people tell me either. I trust what I know from experience.

"I don't see a link provided even tho I have provided some to back my claims.
Regardless of if CO2 is the cause of the rise in temperatures, trying to blame this on anything manmade is ridiculous. The Sun controls our planet cycles more than anything man could ever reproduce."

I don't look for links to convince myself and others. I only know through the scientific method, and experience. Scientific inquiry is intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established.

First, lets look at the greenhouse effect. The greenhouse effect says simply that greenhouse gases cause reradiation back toward the surface instead of allowing heat to escape the system. Greenhouse gases cause an increase in atmospheric heat retention.

I have looked through this link, and I like it.

http://www.rsc.org/images/CA1_tcm18-137981.pdf

Special emphasis should be placed on knowing whether molecules will produce a dipole moment due to bond stretching in various ways. A bond has to have a particular shape with a central atom. Water, methane, carbon dioxide all have the required shape that will cause the necessary type of vibration to be a greenhouse gas. It is important to know that the shape can be predicted by theory and also verified with a microscope. Only these molecules are capable of the reradiation that causes the greenhouse effect. The Greenhouse Effect was consider proven theory in the 19th century.

Next, let's consider climate change. I believe you understand some of this already. You understand cycles. Some natural cycles are the Milankovitch Effect and the solar cycle. The Earth has been nice to us recently. We've enjoyed one of the best periods since the dawn of agriculture. Before this, in prehistory, life was one cold bitch. For the most part man evolved in extreme periods of ice. At times glaciers flowed just a hundred miles from the Mexican border. It's no wonder that agriculture had to wait until just 10,000 years ago. Climate change has caused many extinctions, notably the Mayan culture, but there have been many others. Climate change has been a reoccurring cause for war among peoples.

Third, consider global warming. By this I mean only the component of warming caused by man - not the natural cycles. But, global warming is not proven. We will be dead when it is proven.

Climate Change is like a lion. The lion may be sleeping. It will awaken in some time.
Greenhouse Effect is like a sharp stick. It increases atmospheric heat retention.
Global warming is taking that sharp stick and poking it into the eye of the lion.

Here is a global warming link:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_warming.html

For a species that evolved by wearing hides in extreme cold the odds are poor that a much hotter climate than the already warm climate would be healthy. We won't be needing hides anymore, but the large sweat glands will cause humans to lose water rapidly.

"This is just more ad hominem attacks from people who aren't realizing that the global warming debate is crumbling before their eyes.

The certainty of global warming has increased almost every year if we count only climate scientists. If we count only everyone then the trends come and go with politics and daily weather.

People are stuck in 100-200 year old learning, education, and paradigms, but humankind is awakening to more at this critical juncture. There are major social and planetary changes happening, it is a wonderful time to be alive."

True enough.

I'm flagging this comment since that's not what I said

you asked ME if I had graduated high school and speak English below in the thread, please clear your mind of anger and clutter to thing straight if we are going to have an intelligent debate on your thread. You are just trying to flag me because I am presenting factual information where it should be, on news and political media outlet comment threads.

Ad Hominem

Ad Hominem

wow, you are obviously a complete moron as this above was not ad hominem AT ALL

Keep up the good work

also in addition to your opinions, it is interesting to note that David Rockfeller is a permanent honorary chairman of the CFR. Few other distinct tidbits to note is the McGraw Hill Company up in the Presidents List with Lockheed, American Express, and some more of your friends. http://www.cfr.org/about/corporate/roster.html

AD hominem

well, not ad hominem as ad hominem is an argumental fallacy, and my statement was simply acknowledging this person's opinion, and then making a factual statement concerning Rockefeller and others working with the CFR, whom I noted in posts above.

Clarity my friend. As I said I am not the enemy.

Yes what's your beliefs on the LGBT community I'm curious.

whoa way out of line. I am a former UBER liberal, as in my political ideology USED to lie FAR LEFT of even communism.... I wanted complete utopia, and I live in humboldt county CA which is the closest thing to utopia the earth has to offer..... very liberal up here.....

thing is I awokened to the illegal modern mafia, the organized criminal class, those that control everything and have for a very long time. Awoke to this years ago. Whether you follow PeterJosephs/Zeitgeist or Mike Ruppert on the left, or Alex Jones/Keiser/Chapman/Tarpley squad on the far right, bottom line is that the system is screwed and owned by the top.

You see, liberals love government and taxes, conservatives love business and lower taxes, truth in reality is that megacorporations financed and subsidized by the government have done a number on America. Plain and simply. Dont you understand that?

And concerning your ridiculous AD HOMINEM question concerning LGBT, I am VERY in favor of the LGBT community, keep in mind i live in Humboldt.... my life partner specialized in psychology and helps LGBT youth in our community..... not to mention my only brother is bisexual. YEAH WAKE UP SHEEP

I'm not an enemy I am coming through with common sense and sanity

and I am out there, I am not afraid to have my info out there.... I have been fighting the control system for a long time, i'm already on their lists...

ah ok I can leave it at this, and let others make their own opinions... Blessings to all of humanity in these times of tumult

Sounds like paranoia to me seek help.

"Did you graduate high school and do you speak english?" Ad hominem attack. And even if I didn't graduate high school or speak English, who are you to judge what i'd have to say? Why exactly would you be superior?

That's very nice about Humboldt County and your inherent knowledge about left politics. I'm from Coconino County. Coconino County has the largest population of native Americans. That means we know all about what is good for Earth.

I am glad we are not enemies. If you have a moment let me describe what the Venus/Mercury argument is about.

Venus and Mercury are the two inner planets, of course. Mercury is closer to the Sun than Venus. Mercury is about 35,000,000 miles from the Sun while Venus is about 65,000,000 miles from the Sun. Solar radiation is far more concentrated on the surface of Mercury than Venus. Yet, Venus is hotter than Mercury. In fact, the dark side of Venus is hotter than the bright side of Mercury. The reason that the dark side of Venus is so hot is explained because CO2 concentrations are exceptional causing a greenhouse effect and an incredible ability to retain atmospheric heat.

No one lied to you when they told you that CO2 percentages being higher in the past. CO2 percentages can be higher if there is more CO2, or if there is less N2, O2 and Ar. The problem is that those were not times when mankind could survive on the planet. In fact, most of those organisms that survived in those times are no longer living. That much CO2 might cause water to boil (the oceans have boiled off in the past too but that doesn't mean it was pleasant), and if the O2 levels were that excessively low we would suffocate. There were many times in the history of Earth when conditions were different. To say those times were extremely unpleasant would be an understatement. You don't have to trust me. Ask a scientist. A real one. (Okay, I am a real scientist)

I don't know who you were talking to. Maybe, they were misled too. But I would go back and demand answers to why they have misled you.

If pressure increases then temperature increases. If temperature increases then pressure increases. So, we cannot separate the two because they are interdependent. The high pressure is explained by high temperature, and composition.

Hold on a second, if the atmosphere of Venus is so hot because it is under such great pressure, then by your logic, should not the bottom of the ocean also be incredibly hot since it is under such great pressure?

You are correct. This statement puts it in simple terms we can all understand:

Pressure-volume work, (or pV work) occurs when the volume (V) of a system changes. pV work is often measured in units of litre-atmospheres , where 1L·atm = 101.325J. The litre.atmosphere is not a recognised unit in the SI system of units. pV work is an important topic in chemical thermodynamics.
pV work is represented by the following differential equation:[8][note 1]

where:
W = work done by the system
p = pressure
V = volume

The above equation of work is valid for any reversible process of a closed system.

This can be summarized by saying that heat and work are not state functions of the system:
According to the first law of thermodynamics, any net increase in the internal energy U of a thermodynamic system must be fully accounted for, in terms of heat δQ entering the system and the work δW done by the system:[8][note 1]
[13]
The letter d indicates an exact differential, expressing that internal energy U is a property of the state of the system; they depend only on the original state and the final state, and not upon the path taken. In contrast, the Greek deltas (δ's) in this equation reflect the fact that the heat transfer and the work transfer are not properties of the final state of the system. Given only the initial state and the final state of the system, one can only say what the total change in internal energy was, not how much of the energy went out as heat, and how much as work:

It would be incorrect if I meant to say CO2 concentrations in relation to other gases, but I did not say that. The correct idea is volumetric concentrations, that is, CO2 concentrations in relation to three dimensional space.

Mars is cold because even though CO2 concentrations are high in relation to other gases (O2, N2 and Ar), they are low in relation to volume, or space. Earth has a greater total CO2 than Mars, though the concentrations in relation to other gases are less. Venus has the most CO2 of the inner planets.

When Al Gore, and anyone else speaks of CO2 percentages increasing from 0.035 percent to 0.040 percent it would be more meaningful if they mentioned the volumetric concentration instead. Those figures are only meaningful if volumetric concentrations O2, N2, and Ar are relatively stable, which fortunately they are.

So, even though you are incorrect that I am totally incorrect, your observation is insightful. In order to clear up misunderstandings we need to have the courage to come forward with them.

I don't have figures for solar radiation of Venus at the surface in my memory. Likely, it is lower than expected since the thick clouds are opaque and cover the sphere.

Wait, that kind of makes you a tease doesn't it?

So do you mean to imply that atmospheric pressure will take a sentient form and explain to us why the atmospheric temperature of Venus is so high, or do you mean that we can see a cause and effect correlation between temperature and pressure that can explain why the Venusian atmosphere is so hot?

Also, if we're talking about a heat source, then why not look at the same one, why can't the sun act as a heat source to our oceans as it does for Venus' atmosphere? Surely, though the chemical composition is different, they are both a fluid mass that is not under much pressure near their respective outer reaches but under great pressure under their depths. If Venus is farther away from the Sun yet is still hotter than Mercury, largely explainable by atmospheric pressure, then should not the ocean depths, which are under great pressure, be warmer than our thin little atmosphere since the oceans are privy to the same heat source while being under more pressure?

I am aware of that, but thank you for posting solid information regarding basic fluid physics. I just wanted to be a pain and see what holes I can poke in IceKat's "can be almost completely explained by atmospheric pressure."

You mean like how Earth could be the source of heat for our own atmosphere?

If Venus receives 1.9 times the amount of sunlight that Earth does, but only 35% of it actually makes it into the inner atmosphere, then the inner Venusian atmosphere and/or surface receives 66.5% of the sunlight that the Earth does. If Venus' inner atmosphere (the part that does not reflect 65% of all the light back into space) and surface absorb that light, turning it into heat, if Venus' atmosphere is 92 to 93 times more dense than Earth's own atmosphere, and if nearly all of that atmosphere is composed of a greenhouse gas that traps and holds head, It seems pretty reasonable to think that Venus' atmosphere would attain such a high temperature mostly from solar radiation.

I did not say that 35% of the sunlight Venus receives reaches the surface, I said 35% makes it into the inner atmosphere. Since Venus receives 1.9 times the light that Earth does, and 65% of that light is reflected back into space immediately, then the inner atmosphere and/or surface only receive 66.5% of the solar radiation that the surface of the Earth does. 66.5% seems comparable to a heavily overcast day here on Earth.

Ad Hominem

I've been voting everyone up just to encourage posting.

pushing stronger, incorrect rhetoric will not get you anywhere. To be blaming 'global warming' on anything madmade is totally insane and counterproductive to human life. You people are demonizing the tea party for mainline conservative rhetoric(kill granny) instead of keeping it straight that they want taxes lower along with a few other choice issues.

And I am not tea party. I am not liberal or conservative. These are the chains people can't you hear them?

Did you graduate high school and do you speak english?

ah yeah I have a degree from a university, thanks. Your ad hominem attacks are obvious, and real freedom fighters like me know and see this type of attack immediately.... and smart people call you on it!

Did you read anything I just said, or are you still unaware that I purposely went out of my way to make fun of you?

Please tell me what you have been reading.

Or smoking.