War Against Teachers / Unions Continues

Your source is a right-wing propaganda tool. For every instance of union corruption you post here, there are hundreds of cases of working people being cheated by large corporations such as Bank of America, Citigroup, and Goldman Sachs. Post this scree on Glenn Beck's website, where it belongs. You'll get a wide-eyed audience for your horror stories (and maybe even a Junior Birdman Badge from Glenn Beck, himself!).

As they say over at Fox News, "Some people say..." that there are Koch Bro. operatives working as shills for the Republican/Libertarian culture warmongers who write propaganda and post it all over Liberal/Educated websites the way the John Birch Society pollutes public libraries with their literature disguised as books. Some people might say that. Do you think someone might be onto you?

Gannon is a crook, and the people who aided him in this scam are crooks; however, to use this as an excuse to say all public employees are dishonest or that all public employee unions are corrupt is intellectually and morally dishonest. Somewhere in the United States is a private businessman who is stealing public money; would you outlaw private business?

Propaganda cuts both ways and leads only to anger and misinformation. Real working people are being screwed by corporations in this country, and it is time to address that problem head-on instead of blaming the victims.

As they say over at Fox News, "Some people say..." that there are Koch Bro. operatives working as shills for the Republican/Libertarian culture warmongers who write propaganda and post it all over Liberal/Educated websites the way the John Birch Society pollutes public libraries with their literature disguised as books. Some people might say that. Do you think someone might be onto you?

Yeah- and why not let the parents decide on whether Junior and Sissy need brain surgery, inoculations, the knowledge of complex algorithms, or engineering concepts? Yeah, that's the ticket; let Mom and Dad teach those kids everything they'll need to know. Or, better yet- have private school salesmen line up outside like vacuum cleaner salesmen and have each one do a brief education demo on the living room rug. Now that's education; more bang for you buck, just like Costco!

Careful Progresshiv, you're getting dangerously close to what they want. You're going to get them all excited!

They might even drop their beer cans.

Don't pussy foot around, come out and say what you want to say, some people are to stupid to take care of themselves with out direction from the government.

Speak for yourself.

What I say is empower the parents.

What on earth does that mean; "empower the parents?" Empower them to do what- get sold on the latest educational fad by some slick, pseudo-teacher with a good marketing plan and a bright and shiny smile?

Schools for kids under 15 need to teach reading, writing, math, social studies, history, geography, and, most of all, how to think critically. Public school teachers have been fighting phony "religious" zealots for over 30 years to be allowed to do that teaching, but a militant, vocal, and pigheaded group of willfully ignorant control freaks has taken over school boards, badmouthed education, strangled school funding, and interfered in the classroom to the point that a teacher cannot even sneeze without being threatened by parents, intimidated by administrators, sued by crooked lawyers, or assaulted by students,

How about empowering teachers to teach? How about acknowledging that teachers are better educated and, therefore, know more than their students? How about treating kids like immature, naive, and ignorant future citizens, because that is exactly what they are?

How about teachers not having to teach morals, because kids come to school with the behavior of animals? How about teachers not having to counsel kids who've been beaten up at home? How about teachers not having to pass inferior students in order to avoid being sued? How about teachers not having to spend their own money to pay for classroom materials? How about teachers being treated with dignity and respect?

The educational crisis is not a matter of public versus private control; it is a crisis of maturity in an older generation that refuses to behave as adults and that is childishly trying to get even for having been told (when they went to school) they must behave.

"What on earth does that mean; "empower the parents?" "

I'd say empower them to be able to afford to remove their child from a school where they didn't feel safe and were not learning.

I believe you and I agree that teachers have a tough time maintaining control and it seems to be getting worse all the time. I actually think, in some schools, there needs to be a cop in the classrooms to protect the teachers. So how did we get to that point, I never heard of school campus that had cops assigned to patrol the grounds to keep the kids from killing each other when I was in school. The teachers can't do anything, like you stated, because of fears of being sued, beat up, or killed. The administrators can't/won't do anything because they need butts in the seats so they let everything short of assualt with a deadly go, and counsel the student. Been there and saw it from the inside.

It is a sad thing to watch kids, that think that they have all the answers, blow off their education to hang with the hommies, but it is going to happen as are unfit parents. So I endorse any means that would allow "the good parent" to withdraw their kid from a poor performing school until the community is able to step in and correct the problems.

I've heard of parents signing over custody of their children to their parents just to get them out of the school district.

L8R

You state, "Some of the top high schools in the country are in the inner city. They are all charter schools." What is the source of your information, so that I might verify your assertion?

You also state, " 
Teacher's unions are not for the benefit of the children. Teacher's unions are for the benefit of keeping teachers employed regardless of their ability." Such a broad, unsupported statement, overtly hostile toward teachers and their unions, suggests you come to the discussion with a prior agenda. What is it you are saying behind your broad, unsupported statements? What would be the benefit to students of having low-paid, unhealthy, desperate teachers who had no job security, no pension, and no hope of having better personal lives? Would the purpose of that be to teach children that their own lives must be miserable also?

Finally, you say, "If public schools were a business they would be bankrupt and out of business. If schools are a business, then are students the "product?" At what point did we stop educating people to become contributing, responsible citizens and start working toward creating packaged commodities? I don't remember agreeing to such a transformation, and if I had, my friends would have taken me to an intervention with a psychologist to find out why I had lost my humanity.

Your rehashing of right wing talking points is predictable but still devoid of logic and, worst of all, compassion.

I am a former social worker of 17 years, my wife currently is a teacher, everything you are saying is absolutely true, yet there is a far more insidious agenda taking place, which is aimed directly at destroying public Schooling.

What fundamentalist want, are compliant corporate work drones, and what they learned from their ideological parents-the Nazis-is that in order to achieve this, you go after our most precious commodity, our children.

Because the fundamentalist understand that there is this annoying last vestige of democracy called the separation of church and state, they cannot implement the most successful dumbing down practice and institution known to man, religion, namely school prayer, so they have decided to use a different tactic, to destroy the entire public school system by depriving it of adequate funds.

The technique is the same used as constructors, a boa constrictor for example wraps itself around it's victim very tight, and simply waits for its victim to exhale, at the very moment the creature exhales, it tightens its grip, thereby not allowing its victim to expand to its former position, a agonizingly slow and horrible death, Just as that which is taking place just like public schools.

Phase 1- Whether at the state local or federal level, get in a position of power or funding.

Phase 2- Come up with any excuse necessary for dramatically reducing funding for public schools, consequently underfund public schools.

Phase 3- As a consequence of this underfunding, the public school system-California Up until the Early 70s was wonderful, And America, once had one of the best public education systems in the world, now it is in shambles.

Phase 4-Attempt to prove-via the situation that fundamentalist policies created-that public schools are a failure, and therefore need to be privatized, further implementing the fundamentalist agenda.

phase 5- Those in positions of power or control, declare that "public schools" under such draconian management, declare public education a failure, until the public school system either collapses, or until it is virtually ideologically indistinguishable than a for-profit institution, churning out complacent and compliant future workers, with absolutely no true knowledge of history, or meaning of real individual liberty.

Through never ending budget cuts, and the consequential elimination of the arts and humanities, at one of the most pivotal points in a youths development, the goal is simple, complacent, and compliant youth and future citizens, that is the true goal of the powers that be, to paraphrase an individual with said goals, we only have to look at our briefest history:

"Our truest intention, is not to educate the individual which would promote enlightenment, but to serve a necessary function, give them a vocabulary of 500 words, read signpost, and count up to 1000, so they can serve the necessary needs of the state, and know their place, within the greater German Reich" Adolf Hitler.

This is the true intent, of the fundamentalist, capitalist corporate state, end of story.

Ok, according to the rules, the board owes you $0.10 that's
2 ea. ref to Nazi/Hitler @ $0.05 for a total of $0.10.
You may choose cash or have it deferred to a charity of your choice.
fyi brownshirts refs go for $0.10 ea.
:-)

So what happened to Cali from the 70's on.
Well there was prop 13 property tax ini.
Pre-1970 Federal and State mandates related to funding.
The impostition of collective bargaining for 90% of the teachers that were in unions.
The Serrano Decision
The great influx of undocumented children into the school system.
and more

And their still shouting, WE CAN TEACH YOUR KIDS TO READ IF WE HAD MORE MONEY.

Your comments are spot on. Thank you laying out exactly what has been happening. Unless we take up the cause against the fascists, it is a crime that will go down in history as the deciding factor in the destruction of American democracy.

You do not spell correctly. Do not blame your teacher.

arggghhh!

|:-)

Thank you, I really like your post as well, you also tend to be spot-on, and what you just said, is just that, spot-on.

The people who advocate the destruction of the public school system are anti-democratic and anti-child.

Taking money from public schools doesn't seem to stir as much outrage as I would have imagined. Has the "government can do nothing right" meme worked so well that people have "given up" on education of the "masses"? It's incredibly short sighted as "taking the money and run"ning is not a good solution if you go anywhere else! The rest of the world seems to be "revolting" against the rich much more then we are i.e. our debt is super attractive to the rich of the world because we are a "nation of laws" even while they use those laws to cheat US (with our help)!

You mean with the help of the Chamber of Commerce and our elected officials, I hope.

They don't care about the country as a whole, just their own sorry behinds. They gave the superintendents in our area the power to reduce teacher's salaries and by doing that reduce the amount of money they getin retirement.Texas already lags behind the rest of the nation in teacher pay.

Sadly, no. The Republicans gained control of the House by saying they were the job creators and we fell for it. Two years later? The Republicans took Wi by saying they were fiscally responsible and then they tore into essential services so they could give more tax breaks to the rich.
We have to accept that WE voted these people in. This was a "bloodless" coup in which we willingly (and some gleefully) participated. Now the question is, can we remember what they did to this country long enough to determine our vote in 2012 or are we in for four more years of Bush II?

The video asks, "Why can't kids here keep up with kids over there?"

Why? Because kids here watch crap like this video and blackmail their teachers with it. Teachers are the villains in almost every media portrayal: we are told teachers get paid too much, they don't love the kids, they aren't supportive enough. etc.

The situation in America's schools will improve when (and only when) parents stop allowing their kids to act like fools in school. The situation in America's schools will improve when (and only when) parents stop blaming teachers for students' poor attendance, slovenly appearance, disgustingly insubordinate attitudes, whining, pigheaded childishness, and unwillingness to lift a finger to read, write, or do their homework.

John Stossel is a mouthpiece for corporate interests which wish to destroy America's public education system and replace it with corporate training centers which produce mindless little clones who question nothing, aspire to nothing, and produce nothing truly worthwhile.

John Stossel is a whining dick.

You can call Stossel what ever you want but I don't believe that Stossel made the union heads say what they said, or the parents/kids for that matter.

"The situation in America's schools will improve when (and only when) parents stop blaming teachers for students' poor attendance, slovenly appearance, disgustingly insubordinate attitudes, whining, pigheaded childishness, and unwillingness to lift a finger to read, write, or do their homework. "

Which is what the charter schools are proving that they can do better than the public school system. I take the fact that parents want to pull their kids out of the public schools system and will stand in line for a chance to get into a charter school a strong testimonial.

What smart people do is notice what is working for someone else and try to incorporate it into their endeavors. Something the public school system has ignored or has been forced to ignore because of the out of control unions.

The job of the school system is to prepare the next generation of workers, to take the reigns from us old farts, and carry this country into the future. I don't see that happening with what the current public school system is churning out.

Before responing to "crabbyoldguy,please read: A fifty center is a right wing blogger who has taken the short course in how to disrupt online discussions (liberal leaning obviously), and get paid to do it. typically 50 cents a line or a word, I'm not sure which. It's from one of the lower level idiotic GOP dirty tricks manuals. It's why we have suddenly seen a spike in the name calling, personal attack replys around here. Also the circular logic arguments, and the always ask the same question over and over, no matter how many times it gets answered.And never, ever give a real answer to any questions that you are asked. Always go straight to the attack. Since they know that their arguments are indefensible, they immediatelyattack the person asking them any questions. I heard recently that the tactic was used a lot in India against online protester sites.
The best defense is to ignore their provocations and isolate them.
Don't believe that they are only here to engage in open discussion, they're not.

Yup

Here is another dirty trick that is used in political forums.
A poster will gain the confidence of the board, they will welcome said poster into their arms, and then the poster starts getting really outrageous in the defense of the board. Like you stated personal attacks, name calling, etc which in the end reflect badly on the board.

One more.
This is the one that plants the seed of suspicion on the board and lets it grow.

Thanks for the info, good to know this stuff.

Oh and another one.
The spelling/grammar cop. those really piss me off.

Edit:
Um, like, hey nobody does the above, like I, um, was just messin around.

O...M...G!!! You totally did take the course!
OMG!..OMG! Do they give college credits for that, cuz my welfare case worker could,...you know,get it paid for, OMG!

Now,...Shut U-u-p!
You're like, given' away all our se-e-ecets!

You forgot to capitalize the first word in your last sentence. Do not blame your teacher.

arggghhh!

|:-)

pssst, sorry, i think i threw them off the track by editing the post. usin lower case so nobody notices.

smooth move.....mums the word. ; >)

I always wondered how they were paid m thanks for explaining that to me .

John Stossel , Kock brothers shill .

Maybe so, but then are the two union heads in the piece "Kock brothers" shills also because they did themselves more harm than good. Were the parents in the piece shills also, how about the kids.

Nice "SQUIRREL" post tho so get a nickle from the board.

The idea that it is wrong to want wages that will allow one to buy a home and have a yearly vacation, that it is wrong to expect decent health care, that it is wrong to want one's children to go to college, and that it is wrong to wish for a dignified and enjoyable retirement is an idea planted by selfish oligarchs who think of the working class as pack animals.

Thank you for commenting.

Hey Progresshiv, I've known many teachers over the years and to a person, none has had to do without any of the things you mention, even before the salary and benefits became tilted too far in their direction. Not even close.

They have all had nice homes, more than three months vacation, great health care, enough for college, and most can retire in their mid-fifties, long before most folks.

Give a thought to many others struggling to pay their property taxes, much of which goes to the teachers. I'm sure you are aware that there are many people who can't afford to stay in their homes because of this, especially those on fixed incomes.

One group should not be placed above another.

You say "became tilted too far in their direction." Is a decent living too far? Is dental care too far? Is being able to pay a mortgage too far? If workers were paid living wages, mothers (or fathers) would not have to place their kids into day care; one partner could stay home to provide the important nurturing kids need. Is that too far in the direction of humanitarian concern for you?

"They have all had nice homes..." Would you prefer that teachers have crappy homes?

"...more than three months vacation... " Teachers do not get three month vacations. They get paid for nine months' work and come in on their own time in the summers to prepare for the coming school year.

"...great health care..." That is simply not true. School districts are extorted by insurance companies to pay exorbitant premiums for policies that do not cover preventive care and which have extremely high deductibles. Any major illness is treated by the insurance companies as a crime, and insured folks have to fight to the death to get what they've paid for.

"...enough for college..." What fantasy world did you grab that out of? Have you looked at college tuition these days? It is criminal, and teachers have to pay as much as anyone else.

"...most can retire in their mid-fifties..." That is simply not true.

"Give a thought to many others struggling to pay their property taxes..." So, you're concerned that people who can afford to own property must pay taxes to help ensure the continuation of a democratic society? Cry me a river, and try looking in a mirror instead of blaming teachers and other public servants for the massive, criminal ripoff which has occurred in this country since 2001. Your line of faulty reasoning is shared by many who will have to be held responsible for the collapse of civil society.

Again, I am astounded that anyone would object to decent wages, working conditions, health care, retirement, and hope for the future. What is your alternative: some scene out of a Charles Dickens novel where teachers go door to door with begging bowls? If so, please drop dead.

Apparently neither your teachers nor your parents taught you that telling someone to drop dead is not conducive to a reasonable debate. It is unfortunate that your education failed you in that regard.

If you can see through your tears of rage long enough, please re-read what I wrote. You will learn that I did not say or imply that teachers do not deserve a decent living, nice homes, etc. I stand by what I said and you can protest all you want saying "It's not true!" It is true progresshiv. I blamed teachers for nothing other than causing the tide to shift against them by demanding too much.

For example, you perpetuate the myth that teachers do not get three month vacations, that they...." come in on their own time in the summers to prepare for the coming school year." My business is next to a school and I can tell you that during the summer no cars are in the parking lot. None. As I said, I know many teachers and yes, there are some who take classes in the summer to further their education but so do other professionals and they do it in spite of not having three months off.

Some of the teachers that I know are retired and have done quite well their entire career. I'm glad they did well but in the last 10 years or so some teachers unions have started demanding too much in my opinion.

Through my business, I have donated a considerable amount of time and materials to help teachers and students. I am pleased to have been able to do this.

For your sake, should you chose to respond, I sincerely hope that you will be able to do so in a more rational manner. I would add that being the person in the Community who added this topic, you should treat people who chose to contribute in a more respectful manner. If you can't handle another's position you would be advised to leave the adding of topics to others.

Peace.

When someone tells me I have to stand by quietly and allow them to slyly slander members of a profession which makes it possible for my country to thrive, I am not only obligated but also delighted to suggest that they expire, and I simply did that. No amount of your personal donations can offset the damage you do by repeating false information about teachers, and if teachers weren't some of the best (and most rational) people in our society, many of them would suggest a more appropriate place for your "help."

No one asked you to "stand by quietly". Just show a little class, that's all.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the term "slander" so I'll help you out: "Noun: The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation." I made no false statements and I damaged no one's reputation.

It would be good to stop before those who taught you suffer further embarrassment.

The period goes inside the quotation marks.

It's really hard to imagine the thought processes that lead to the kind of logic displyed by the OlBlue's of the world.

Oh God, another dictionary freak!

There is no real logic there.

Teachers are grossly underpaid considering the education required to teach and the amount of students that a teacher is responsible for.

They do not even make as much as a teenage babysitter if you break it down by child and yet they are responsible for the care and education of thousands of children during their career.

If you do not think a teacher deserves a good salary and good benefits then who does?

I don't know why you people keep saying that I don't think teachers deserve a good salary and benefits when in my first post on this subject, in fact in my first sentence I said I SUPPORT the efforts of the unions in Wisconsin and Ohio. And yes, I said I thought they overplayed their hand over the years. I just think they wouldn't be in such a deep hole with the teabag governors had they not been so aggressive in their negotiations.

We saw the same thing happen with the union at Boeing in Washington state. They demanded the moon, now they're screaming because Boeing built a new plant in South Carolina so they didn't have to deal with the union. I've been in unions......I was a union steward at one time. I SUPPORT unions but labor/management is give and take. You can't have it all, all at once.

You got me. Good catch!

Your point is valid, but at some point it is essential for anyone (not just teachers) to say, "I am tired of the CEO of my company making 450 times what I make." Teachers, who are responsible for setting examples, MUST stand up for their rights in order to model that for the kids. otherwise, we get generations of obedient drones.

Yeah, I see too many drones as it is. Don't need any more! That is why I support the teachers' efforts in Wisconsin and Ohio. It's too bad it got to be the circus that it is. I hope Walker will be recalled. Haven't heard if it is possible to recall Kasich as well.

Thank you. I'm sorry I told you to drop dead. I just get so sick of having to feel apologetic for giving a damn about the system that made this country great.

No problem Progresshiv. I apologize for not being as understanding as I should have been in my responses. You are passionate about your beliefs and I respect that.

You're a class act. Thanks.

Likewise brother!

The workers will take back the cash, but it is going to be a violent process. This fight over wealth has been a recurring theme in America, and it has never been pretty. It is a real shame that the most recent crop of crooks has apparently not read a history book.

I respectfully hope that you are wrong. They took it from US "legally" and we should return the favor by taking it from them "legally". I would love the irony of President Obama imposing a 90% tax on the rich like Eisenhower (a Republican) did!

I hope I'm wrong, too. Your idea about a luxury tax is sound and should be implemented. I'm concerned that the propaganda machine has people so stirred up that they will start throwing rocks before they know what their targets are.

Oh, you mean the 2010 elections? The "stay home and don't vote" meme was a massive success for the right and it appears to be working again. Will we really give more power to the "do nothings" of the right? It's enough to make me weep!

Me, too.

"Nice post, EdJoy! Yes, corporate drones and clones are so much easier to manipulate than people who can think for more than a few seconds. "Hey, where's the *&^%$*# remote?" is the most intelligent converation we're expected to have."

This post doesn't bolster your position.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank Corporate America; I'm free at last!

Nice post, EdJoy! Yes, corporate drones and clones are so much easier to manipulate than people who can think for more than a few seconds. "Hey, where's the *&^%$*# remote?" is the most intelligent converation we're expected to have.

Sing it again, Revvin!

Sweet Haysus, I hope so!