The Fast and The Curious? Cern records particles moving faster than light

It means that the Kosmos is much bigger than just our little corner of it and it's not limited to our narrow "frame of reference"

That's what the "Closed timelike curves in asymmetrically warped brane universes" paper from Cornell University discusses and continuing research on neutrinos will explore.

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0603045

"More recently, large (or even infinite) extra dimensions have been discussed as a possible new way to understand the hierarchy problem and to keep neutrino masses small. In many extra-dimension models, ordinary Standard Model (SM) fields are confined on a brane (our three-surface), while gravitons and other hypothetical SM singlet fields are allowed to propagate also in the extra-dimensional bulk.

A generic feature of such spacetimes seems to be the existence of signals, mediated by the graviton or SM singlets, taking “shortcuts” through the extra dimension. As viewed from our brane world, these shortcuts appear as superluminal communication. Such
apparent superluminal communication, via graviton shortcuts in the bulk, or earlier, via wormholes, has been proposed as a possible solution to the cosmological horizon problem (relaxing one of the needs for an inflationary epoch in the early universe).

While there seems to be agreement in the literature that extra dimensional spacetimes admit bulk shortcuts under rather generic conditions, whether these shortcuts solve the horizon problem depends on the details of the specific extra-dimensional model."

Usually it's at the bottom of the comment box, so scroll over to the end of the list and find the square that says "No image" then click on that.

thank you. I don't always notice that option.

Yep, tried again, option not there and it wasn't when I originally posted this thread. It is the one real complaint I have with this forum.

It has always been there over the past many years.

It was NOT an option on my browser when I posted. Sorry to be obstinate, but I am not generally blind and I have looked several times. Sometimes, not an option.

Well at least it helps narrow down the symptoms since you can eliminate the cause of it being the Current forum. The next step in trouble shooting the problem is that it might be your browser causing it.

Next time look around at the options in your browser to find out if something has been turned off that prevents it from showing

You don't know the half of it.

That's what I was thinking when I saw the story since it would fit in with the differences in "the inertial frame of reference" and explain why those measurements could be taken.

It gives an opportunity for experiments to verify how "brane universes" operate as this paper from Cornell University Library on General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology postulates

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0603045

"In asymmetrically warped spacetimes different warp factors are assigned to space and to time. We discuss causality properties of these warped brane universes and argue that scenarios with two extra dimensions may allow for timelike curves which can be closed via paths in the extra-dimensional bulk.

In particular, necessary and sufficient conditions on the metric for the existence of closed timelike curves are presented. We find a six-dimensional warped metric which satisfies the CTC conditions, and where the null, weak and dominant energy conditions are satisfied on the brane (although only the former remains satisfied in the bulk).

Such scenarios are interesting, since they open the possibility of experimentally testing the chronology protection conjecture by manipulating on our brane initial conditions of gravitons or hypothetical gauge-singlet fermions (sterile neutrinos) which then propagate in the extra dimensions."

I thought that last night too, hence my comment way down, and woke chasing something else to find the above story about just that.Makes me think of trying to measure the electron of an atom....it isn't in only one place until you do try to measure it...prior to that it's everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Loved the now old movie Mindwalk. Great visualization for our limited perception of how things work and pushed me down a path of no return.

I appreciate the clarification, Argon18. :-)

No problem, since being noble is one of the characteristics that also identifies Argon and it's the 18 electrons in the valence shell that make it good for doping semi-conduuctors

I was also an "arts major" for my first degree in college for photography, but that was back in the 80's when they still depended on chemical processes instead of all digital so I had to learn a lot of science about how silver halide interacted with developers and fixers.

Plus all the physics of optics and the refraction of light through lenses that put a lot of the art in perspective, especially studies of depth of field and the color spectrum of light.

Black holes have been accelerating light way faster than light itself can move, stalker.

how is the fact that light with all it's glorious speed, cannot escape a black hole a theory? Also, not sure if trying to be sneaky and putting a Canadian accent in last sentence.

the tremor the news created on the scientific world is beyond a, we knew it!

LOL

Probably locked away forever by the government along with Tesla's notes.

that would be me

"Now he asks "What happens if their clocks are off?" Welcome to my life. Next up: Husbands with radar guns hunting for neutrinos. Yes, he IS that ornery."

Looks like attilatheblond found the next contestant, maybe you can have an Ornery-Off?

Oh, pity the scientist who won't acknowledge the possibility that there is a limited grasp yet full belief.

Isn't that why the research is continuing? Because they have a "limited grasp" and don't dimiss it with a "full belief" that it is simply "equipment error" because of a pre-concieved dogma that "as far as we understand, a speed it is impossible to go faster than."

Pity the scientist that ever stops looking for evidence and doing experiments to broaden the horizons of what has been previously understood

absolutely agree. Sadly have met some who think what they know is all that is knowable. We have all run into them in schools or work. That is the toy my cat of a spouse love to play with.

No, I don't just jump on the bandwagon for every "ground-breaking discovery" that comes out since 90% of them are just sensationalized nonsense.

I'm not saying it's impossible or to ignore it, it's amazingly exciting if it's true. I just think it's hugely unlikely and I'd rather wait for more substantial data.

thus my remark about Al chuckling ;^)

Uh global warming by man has mostly to do with creating "greenhouse" gasses that trap the energy from the sun so global warming has always been due to the sun as its source.

I’ll second that!

not in that way...am well aware what we are fed

Apparently they measured the time it took for the neutrinos to travel a certain distance, did the "smart alack" remember the basic formula to calculate speed? S=D/T

"Antonio Ereditato, who works at the CERN particle physics center on the Franco-Swiss border, told Reuters that measurements over three years showed the neutrinos moving 60 nanoseconds quicker than light over a distance of 730 km between Geneva and Gran Sasso, Italy."

Now he asks "What happens if their clocks are off?"

Welcome to my life. Next up: Husbands with radar guns hunting for neutrinos. Yes, he IS that ornery.

Obviously they spent three years checking for that, since calibrations in the equipment are always the first thing they double-check to verify their results.

If "he IS that ornery" then maybe he should be on a show "Husbands that call up Physicists and get them to send them all their data" so he can get all his questions answered from the source?

Uh, got humor?

He is actually pro science and speaks a little of it himself. He does like to keep those who hold it as a deity in check just a bit, to keep things honest though.

I did, since I just continued the metaphor, but did Saladin?

How does it help to "keep things honest" to ask questions from lessons learned in high school to those at the leading edge of the field? Where was any evidence shown that it has anything to do with "those who hold it as a deity" in their findings?

"We have high confidence in our results. But we need other colleagues to do their tests and confirm them," he said.

The opposite seems to be the case since "those who hold it as a deity" don't ever ask for independent confirmation because they are already certain they are right.

It would make a lot more sense if they were, but then the question becomes, how do you tell if the same neutrinons were measured that entered the faster universe and exited back to here?

Is there some sort of "tag" they could use to ID them and find out if the neutrinos that are measured from Geneva can be "tracked" to be certain they are the same ones that are measured at Gran Sasso?

If they could prove the neutrinos go in and out of a "different frame of reference" where light goes faster thenit would be a start for a solid grounding to develope a FTL drive

perhaps it's relevant to dimensions we don't consider yet?

tell em sister!

wow. way to bring politics into science, be annoying, and show your vast intellect all at once, faster than the speed of light