Aha. The amendment for arbitrary revocation of US citizenship is next.

thanks for the link, will get reading

My senators both voted against, ilike to think in some small symbolic part due to the emails i flood their inboxes with.

and no responses to email...would you call that a blackout...???

Or, they are most likely just mindless

Hear hear.

great graphic

Thanks. It's an old one, but it still works.

What do we do when he doesn't?

Hey Ike, I don't want to think what the outcome might be if he doesn't, but all of us on this site are probably on a list somewhere right now that is being prepared for handover to the army and marines...for "collection"...scary times...

Here is a link to a book that might give you a few ideas http://www.scribd.com/doc/74128346/52459979-From-Dictatorship-to-Democracy

Thanks pa, a good resource i can tell already. It's good to be reminded that a violent movement will almost always be at a loss. As the referenced book says,

"Whatever the merits of the violent option, however, one point is clear.
By placing confidence in violent means, one has chosen the very
type of struggle with which the oppressors nearly always have superiority."

This is a good reminder and goes along with the non-violence i try to practice but sometimes my words go beyond.

This is true, it's worth remembering, however, that fear is ultimately the enemy and we can't let the possible threat of future illegal detention deter us from the quest for a more perfect union.

Agreed or I would never have started "speaking" here...we must fight the good fight!

16 D's and 45 R's (Yes, Lieberman is an R no matter what he claims)

Thanks we should wear this list on our shirts until they get voted out.

I see there are still some "democrats" who have functioning brains! Now let's see if they stick with the GOP and vote for the inevitable draconian reductions in the amount of ill-gotten taxes that the feds blow that really belong to the 53% of Americans who actually pay federal income taxes!!

So somehow 45 Republicans that voted for this have brains?

Yeah. That 53% needs to have the taxes cut. Mine went up this year by $800 with no change in filing status or income. So much for not raising the taxes on the middle class.

Amen brother.

Yes sir most certainly, along with the "democrats in name only" who voted for it! :)

Thats pretty sad and pathetic!

Kenny, I accept that you have opinions that sometimes differ from my own, but never will you get any negative comments from me sir! :)

I can understand that, sorry!

what, you can understand that? What nonsensical drivel, "never will you get any negative comments from me sir!" WTF, who says that shit sincerely? Idiots or disingenuous plants.

I for one sir, will let you know exactly how i feel about your comments and even how i feel about what you mean by your comments. Consensus doesn't have to be saccharine sweet and must be genuine to mean anything.

Hope that didn't ruffle the feathers in your two piece.

pfffft,

Uh, wutz "pffft"? Is that the sound of the few remaining brain cells imploding? Must be. Kenny is one of the few thinking people on the Left side of the spectrum that is in here. You can try to stir up your favorite substance in life if you want, I could care less what you have to say pal. You don't know me, so you have no credibility with your empty,despondent rants. Hostile and inept is no way to go through life.

Good one, I think mine was intended to be sarcastic! You know like Steve Martin used to say, excuuuuse meeee!

Each one of those is crap.

These senators suck.

And, uh, well,,,,,, do you agree with these usefull provisions, or are you opposed? I see nothing wrong with preventing the circus and expense of criminal trials in civilan courts for sub-humans!

Wow, said like the lone true mental giant once again!

What do you mean by that?

"Each one of those is crap.

These senators suck."

I think I've said enough.

Sigh... why is it that obtuse rethuglicans can never imagine being the victims of such injustice?
You'll be singing a very different tune when/if they ever frog march your ass to Gitmo.

if you have a problem with gitmo maybe you should complain to the man you put into office, he's the one keeping it open. besides, as i am neither a criminal, terrorist or enemy combatant the chances are pretty slim i'll end up there. but if i were a criminal, terrorist or enemy combatant and were caught and arrested for attempting to harm innocent american lives thats the place i'd choose cause its my understanding the foods pretty good and the prisoners are treated better than in american prisons. peace

Cause we all know the terrorists are planning something really big to take away our freedom and democracy.....wait a second, our government has been doing exactly that....are they terrorists?

Or am i missing something?

Where do you get your Kool-Aid? I'm not scared of getting frog walked to Guantanamo Bay, as beautiful as Cuba is and all, but geeze, I am scared of the Marxist re-education camps that will spring up if Obama gets a second term. Ya see, Right Wing paranoia sounds just as ignorant as Leftist paranoia!

Still don't get it do you congoboy? You can't protect a democracy by implementing laws that undermine it any more than you'd cut off a leg to run a marathon. It's no more complicated than that. How do you not get that?

what i do get is, hypothetically speaking there is a terrorist plot to murder innocent american civilians. a bomb has been secretly planted in a busy metropolitan area. a suspect has been aprehended but just smirks at his captors when asked about said plot. so a little persuasion or a lot of persuasion is used to make him talk. thousands of lives saved. what dont you get?

you are correct on both points but not in the way you believe

wow maas, youre hooked

always the conspiracy theorist and never the bride. wow maas, even if true its at least nice to see that it was a democrat in office who over saw the operation. but dan rather lost all credibility during the bush years

Not a theory a fact

500,000 American soldiers in WW II alone, sacrificed their lives to protect the very things these idiots are trying to take away. How do you respond to them? "Ah sorry guys, appreciate you dying for us and stuff but we won't be using this part of the US Constitution anymore." Bullshit! The US Constitution are US laws are not items of CONVENIENCE to be tossed out the window at the first sign of trouble. We spent 45 years seconds away from global nuclear annihilation but we still managed to keep our democracy intact. Are you telling me that since 9/11 we've become a nation of cowards?

You, like so many others, have lost all sense of perspective. I understand terrorism is not something to be taken lightly but neither is the US Constitution. Guns kill thousands of innocent people every year in this country. In 2004 there were 16,750 suicides, 11,624 homicides, 649 unintentional shootings, 311 from legal intervention and 235 from undetermined intent all by guns! By comparison 3000 died on 9/11. So tell me what is a greater threat to life, terrorism or the right to bear arms? Yet every conservative and their mother screams bloody murder about their constitutional right to bear arms. And you know what, they are right to do so, because it's in the US Constitution.

We can't toss out the parts of the Constitution we don't like and keep the ones we do. If that was the case everyone would throw out at least one part and the Constitution would no longer exist. Get it?

So please don't feed me your nonsense about the need to trash constitution rights to "protect American lives" That kind of reasoning is blatantly self-serving, narrow minded and plain dumb.

mark, so simplistic but unrealistic. sure a lot of guns kill a lot of people but most guns are owned by responsible law abiding citizens and with the exception of a few accidents every year it is the criminal element that kill people with guns. there would be no way to take guns away from every american and if you legislated anti gun laws the criminals would still have theres and the rest of us wouldnt. how fair is that? i thought you liberals were all for assisted suicide and the right of an individual to take away their own life. guns are a convenient way to do so. if you took away the guns folks would just pussy out and over dose on drugs which many pussies do already. criminals? they'd just resort more to a lead pipe or a butcher knife and what would law abiding citizens protect their families with, the same thing? bullshit. i'm sorry that you feel the mass murder of 3000 american citizens on 9/11 as just a sign of trouble. the patriot act which by the way has been supported and enhanced by obama ( one of the smart things he's done in office ) wasnt devised to be used to spy on law abiding american citizens. now some may fall in the cracks on occasion or agencies may sometimes abuse their power, which has been done covertly throughout history anyway. so why not be more transparant? enemy combatants, terrorists, war criminals are not subject to nor should be the rights of the u.s. constitution. and in my opinion american born enemies from within who wish to do harm to their fellow citizens ahould not be afforded the same rights either. the greatest threat to life are those so blind and mislead by their liberal idealism that they would allow thousands or millions of their fellow countrymen to die in the name of the indivdual rights of criminals, who shouldnt have any to begin with. peace

It's expected that any president of this country would and should say that.

nearly a third of them demo's. go figure

That is not quite accurate:

---

Most media discussions of Levin/McCain assert that President Obama has threatened to veto it. That is not quite true: the White House’s statement on this bill uses language short of a full-on veto threat: “the President’s senior advisers [will] recommend a veto.” Moreover, former Bush DOJ official Jack Goldsmith makes a persuasive (though not dispositive) case that it is unlikely that the President would veto this bill. Most likely, it seems to me, is that the veto threat will be used to extract concessions in order to have a bill that the President will sign.

Let’s be very clear, though, about what the “veto threat” is and is not. All things considered, I’m glad the White House is opposing this bill rather than supporting it. But, with a few exceptions, the objections raised by the White House are not grounded in substantive problems with these powers, but rather in the argument that such matters are for the Executive Branch, not the Congress, to decide. In other words, the White House’s objections are grounded in broad theories of Executive Power. They are not arguing: it is wrong to deny accused Terrorists a trial. Instead they insist: whether an accused Terrorist is put in military detention rather than civilian custody is for the President alone to decide. Over and over, the White House’s statement emphasizes Executive power as the basis for its objections to Levin/McCain:

Broadly speaking, the detention provisions in this bill micromanage the work of our experienced counterterrorism professionals, including our military commanders, intelligence professionals, seasoned counterterrorism prosecutors, or other operatives in the field. These professionals have successfully led a Government-wide effort to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al-Qa’ida and its affiliates and adherents over two consecutive Administrations. The Administration believes strongly that it would be a mistake for Congress to overrule or limit the tactical flexibility of our Nation’s counterterrorism professionals.

---

The above is from an article by Glenn Greenwald:
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/01/congress_endorsing_military_detention_a_new_aumf...

Looks like Obama is going to play along and continue the fake war on terror which is really a war with Americans who oppose the 1%

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-lawyers-citizens-targeted-war-us-154313473.html

"Obama lawyers: Citizens targeted if at war with US"

Now wait a minute, if a politician has a functioning brain, are they really "democrats"?!?!? I don't think so!

I don't think there's a war against 99% of Americans, but there certainly will be some stuff hitting the fan for the 1% ers who roam around the streets in the flea bagger movement. The masses are getting very tired of the feces in the parks.

Well bro, they would be called Patriots

You might want to follow your own advice and before posting you should inform yourself. Please stop propagating misinformation online.

Read this:
http://www.progressive.org/mccain_says_american_citizens_can_be_sent_to_guantana...

From the linked article:

Sen. Paul: “My question would be under the provisions would it be possible that an American citizen then could be declared an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo Bay and detained indefinitely.”

Sen. McCain: “I think that as long as that individual, no matter who they are, if they pose a threat to the security of the United States of America, should not be allowed to continue that threat.”

There has been some confusion on the Internet as to whether the National Defense Authorization Act really applies to U.S. citizens. But Sen. McCain’s answer should clarify that once and for all.

The confusion stems from Section 1032, which deals with the military detention of the people the Armed Forces captures “in the course of hostilities.” Part of Section 1032 states: “The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.”

Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel of the ACLU, explains the problem.

“The exclusion on Section 1032 only applies to 1032. It doesn’t apply to 1031,” he says. “And that only makes it worse, because any judge is going to say, ‘Of course, members of Congress meant for American citizens to be detained because if they didn’t, they would have put in the exception they put in one section later.’ ”

Habeus Corpus was basically suspended back in 2001. What this piece does is expand the language such that suspension applies to anyone who “substantially supports” Al Qaeda, the Taliban or “associated forces”. That includes American citizens.

Obama has already assassinated an American citizen without due process (and his teenage son too), so nobody should be shocked about this piece of [shit].

I second that!

Already is...

Wait until some fat ass CEO calls for the removal of a picket line in front of his or her business. Union terrorists! Can you see it happening?

Vienna? no offense to the Viennese people but borrringg... Other than that its a pretty city which functions very well.

: )

Vienna was just voted #1 city on the planet! New York was 47th! Way to go America, you're soooo... exceptional. NOT!

I live in Germany myself, I just don't find Vienna to be all that thrilling. Its certainly personal bias of course..

I wouldn't be surprised, as well as people speaking out for the planet. It upsets the polluters you know. They have been wanting to declare environmentalists terrorists for years just because we stand up to the oil cartel and speak out for clean air, water and climate balance. Such despicable people we are for wanting the sun to give us energy. And with the assault on the Clean Air and Clean Water Act plus the people in Congress bought by the oil cartel this just fits right in. Well they have a case. No piece of paper any of them vote on or sign is going to dampen the love and passion I feel for this planet and my resolve in expressing it.

Along with union workers! Fascists have a strange way of getting what they want...

Yeah, Obama's done a great job at picking WINNERS in the solar energy industry. If he was not using money that was taken from the 53% of Americans to play his politics and pay back scams, it would actually be funny.

Was the sticker on up side down?

Huh?

61 cells and three meals a day! Sounds about right!

61 cells and one meal a day! Budget Cuts!