Obama insists on indefinite detention of Americans
source: http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-detention-defense-levin-635/
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- MotherForTruth
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Think that President Obama will stand by his word and veto the legislation that will allow the government to detain American citizens without charge or trial? Think again.
The Obama administration has insisted that the president will veto the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, a bill that passed through the Senate last week. Under the legislation, the United States of America is deemed a battlefield and Americans suspected of committing a terrorism offense can be held without trial and tortured indefinitely. Despite the grave consequences for citizens and the direct assault on the US Constitution, the act managed to make it through both halves of Congress but President Obama says he won’t let it become a law.
According to Senator Carl Levin, however, Americans should be a bit more concerned about what the president’s actual intentions are. Levin, who sits on the Armed Services Committee as chairman, has revealed to Congress that the Obama administration influenced the wording of the act and shot down text that would have saved American citizens from the indefinite imprisonment and suspension of habeas corpus.
(Click image above for video of Senator Levin's speech)
Senator Levin told Congress recently that under the original wording of the National Defense Authorization Act, American citizens were excluded from the provision that allowed for detention. Once Obama’s officials saw the text though, says Levin, “the administration asked us to remove the language which says that US citizens and lawful residents would not be subject to this section.”
Specifically, the section that Obama asked to be reworded was Section 1031 of the NDAA FY2012, which says that "any person who has committed a belligerent act" could be held indefinitely.
“It was the administration that asked us to remove the very language which we had in the bill which passed the committee…we removed it at the request of the administration,” said Levin. “It was the administration which asked us to remove the very language the absence of which is now objected to.”
John Wood of Change.org writes that President Obama proposed a veto of Section 1032 of the NDAA, which does not pertain to the detention of American citizens. Rather, that section deals with the use of the US military in taking custody of suspected criminals. Section 1031, which actually deals with the indefinite imprisonment of Americans, remains not only unopposed by the Obama administration, but the president has made sure that the law specifically includes Americans, urging Congress to redraft the legislation with increasingly confusing wording that makes the legalization detrimental to America.
President Obama could sign off on the legislation as early as this December 13 if he chooses not to exercise his veto power. The bill, which includes budgetary provisions for the US military, comes at a price-tag several billion dollars cheaper than the president had asked for of Congress.
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bailey78
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In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty
- 5 months ago
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bailey78
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AmericanStandard
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Here is yet another source for those of you who refuse to believe that Obama would do such a thing. I know the candidate Obama would never pass this, unfortunately it seems President Obama is much different from the candidate that most of us voted for!
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/the-indefinite-detention-bill-does-apply-... - 5 months ago
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AmericanStandard
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MotherForTruth
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Senate votes at link
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2011-218 - 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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MotherForTruth
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Congress votes at Link
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375 - 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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WagonMaster
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Look...this may be a good thing. When all the Tea -Terrorist- Rethugs are rounded up for mutiny, sedition , treason advocating the overthrow of the Gumment and threatening death on the Pres, do you really NOT want to detain them fo'eveh ? Think about it.
- 5 months ago
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WagonMaster
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MotherForTruth
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WagonMaster:
I hope you always like the lies you are fed otherwise you may be next to be treated as a terrorist.
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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AmericanStandard
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WagonMaster:
Please proceed to the nearest wal-mart, purchase a firearm and commit suicide for the good of the rest of us. Before you do, you should read an old piece of paper called the Constitution and realize that you should not be breathing good air that could be used for critically thinking and free individuals.
- 5 months ago
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AmericanStandard
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WagonMaster
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MotherForTruth:
Me or all the conspiricy theorists? Knee jerk reactions got us into Iraq. Is this Not another knee jerk reaction to a situation most of us don't know anything about?. If you prefer, I would prefer to be lied to for the rest of my, maybe, 15 good years left. That way I can die knowing I won't have to keep looking over my shoulder for another Obama Conspiricy to whack me up along side of the head.
- 5 months ago
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WagonMaster
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WagonMaster
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AmericanStandard:
So I disagree with the post and now YOU, in your infinite wisdom want ME to commit suicide? That attitude is no better than what one would hear from a Rethug Tea bagger....total bull shit. Haver another six pack.
- 5 months ago
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WagonMaster
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good_stuff
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For Obama fans that don't beleive this, look up the daily show clip from I think last thursday. Obama threatened to veto unless they made it easier to detain US citizens. I'm sure that it is true, otherwise Obama would have closed Gitmo like he promised on the campaign trail...
It doesn't take congressional approval to make the military do something other than declaring war.
- 5 months ago
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good_stuff
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BrushwithDeathToothpaste
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"Specifically, the section that Obama asked to be reworded was Section 1031 of the NDAA FY2012, which says that "any person who has committed a belligerent act" could be held indefinitely."
I can't find this wording in section 1031.
Section 1031—Definition of Individual Detained at Guantanamo
This section defines the term “individual detained at Guantanamo” for
purposes of subtitle D.If you want to believe the President has a secret agenda to detain American Citizens at Guantanamo then more power to you. If people are so concerned about long detentions, without quick due process, then maybe we should be focusing our attention on county jails.
- 5 months ago
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BrushwithDeathToothpaste
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MotherForTruth
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BrushwithDeathToothpaste:
All of the above!
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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SFirman
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BrushwithDeathToothpaste:
Thank you. Good comment!
- 5 months ago
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SFirman
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YehudaJudah [removed]
- This comment was removed as a violation of community guidelines.
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YehudaJudah [removed]
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MotherForTruth
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YehudaJudah:
Well, he lied. Wouldn't be the first time.
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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AmericanStandard
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YehudaJudah:
he only said he would veto if the wording forbidding American citizens from this action was in place. Please read the npr story posted below.
- 5 months ago
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AmericanStandard
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AmericanStandard
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=143620555
For those of you who do not believe Obama would advocate detention of U.S. citizens think again. Here is more proof.
- 5 months ago
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AmericanStandard
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MotherForTruth
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AmericanStandard:
There is no doubt in my mind Obama would incarcerate all Americans who do not agree with his politics.
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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Henry58 [removed]
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Henry58 [removed]
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AmericanStandard
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Henry58:
It is all over the independent news media and has been for weeks. Open your eyes and mind and do some research. This bill has already passed house and senate and is on the way to Obama's desk. It is very real and has not been reported on by the lamestream media.
- 5 months ago
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AmericanStandard
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Joeydee44
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AmericanStandard:
The lamestream media...wait a minute, is this Sarah Palin?
- 5 months ago
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Joeydee44
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Joeydee44
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Here's what Raha Wala had to say about this on Olbermann's show tonight. I didn't hear anything about Obama insisting on Indefinite Detention anywhere in this segment. However, a comment from Carl Levin can be clipped from C-Span and somehow that's proof to a bevy of Obama-haters that he is trying to strip away Habeus Corpus and lock us away. C'mon, where's the TRUTH? Levin and that snake McCain are the ones who wrote this language, and like Olbermann said it's something the Right has been trying to pull off since the Bush administration.
- 5 months ago
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Joeydee44
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bourneverde
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Joeydee44:
Wow!!! once again it is joey who comes to the rescue and brings a little truth to the table. Thank you.
- 5 months ago
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bourneverde
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SFirman
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Joeydee44:
Good comment. Truth!! I have faith in Keith. McCain and Levin would have kept us in Iraq. They are snakes.
- 5 months ago
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SFirman
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AmericanStandard
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Joeydee44:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=143620555
Read this article and realize you are wrong
- 5 months ago
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AmericanStandard
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Joeydee44
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AmericanStandard:
How am I wrong? How does this differ from anything that was said on the Olbermann clip? Wala said Obama was going to have to clash with Levin on this if he decides to veto. But show me where it says he is "insisting" on this language as Mother claims?
- 5 months ago
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Joeydee44
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crash_text_dummy
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MotherForTruth posted:
Obama insists on indefinite detention of AmericansSo, in keeping pace with the poster handle
I read this on NPR:The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 runs hundreds of pages. It authorizes hundreds of billions in defense spending. And as it stands, the version of the bill approved by the Senate is facing a veto by President Obama.
The administration's main objection is to one part of the bill, the part that governs the treatment of detainees. According to the administration's reading of it, the bill mandates military custody for a certain class of terrorism suspects. And since it would apply to individuals inside the U.S., it would, and this is a quote, "be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets."
Well, John Brennan is President Obama's chief counterterrorism adviser, and he joins us...
- 5 months ago
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crash_text_dummy
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bourneverde
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crash_text_dummy:
so... you mean if you just read a little more than what the Liars on fox News tell people you can actually find some truth.... that's a novel idea... if only others had access to such information... Thank you Crash... unfortunately your wisdom will likely be lost in this strand... most people in here seem to be impervious to truth or wisdom...
- 5 months ago
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bourneverde
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MotherForTruth
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crash_text_dummy:
I see you are not convinced that Americans lost their constitutional rights. Lawyers worked it all out, There are so many intentional holes left in the writing to make you believe the government is there to protect you - the law abiding citizen. Wrong!
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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ahonnet
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The Supreme Court will just rule it unconstitutional... Oh, wait... We're screwed!
- 5 months ago
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ahonnet
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bourneverde
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ahonnet:
this comment is just funny (lol)
- 5 months ago
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bourneverde
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PressCore
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ahonnet:
There are common cause, & civil rights groups who will challenge it in the
SCOTUS. Nobama had advocated for many controversial laws of doubtful
Constitutionality. They may just surprise you. Lots of violations of posse
comitatus & the writ of habeas corpus will likely occur if he's re erected. - 5 months ago
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PressCore
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remanns
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ahonnet:
hah! +^d
- 5 months ago
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remanns
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NiceN
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Good, lets not hide or lie about the war between the elite and the citizens of a country. The people must get this world back from the greed of the wealthy.
- 5 months ago
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NiceN
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alexandrek [removed]
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alexandrek [removed]
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MotherForTruth
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alexandrek:
I do not feel protected or free!
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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alexandrek [removed]
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MotherForTruth: This comment was removed by its owner.
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alexandrek [removed]
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MotherForTruth
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alexandrek:
Sad truth.
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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alexandrek [removed]
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alexandrek [removed]
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MotherForTruth
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alexandrek:
Hillary is worse.
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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rerushg
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Well, I got into this at length last week when the Udall amendment failed but.....again.....
The administration holds that it already has the power. We're at war, remember? Patriot Act? The Supreme Court seems to agree with that.
Obama gets political mileage from the veto. Or, if he chooses he can issue a signing statement indicating his disdain for that portion of the bill and noting that he would never use it. This would codify it, to be sure, but job one is to get out of these damn wars. Kabuki.Remember how broke we are? And we've GOT to cut gov't spending? We progressives were arguing that cuts could easily come in the war spending? Well this bill is the war (et.al.) money for 2012. There's a gazillion bucks there that hasn't been discussed at all and got pushed right past us with nary a peep.
We are too easily distracted. - 5 months ago
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rerushg
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bourneverde
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rerushg:
yet another rational contributor... ty, great point
- 5 months ago
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bourneverde
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PressCore
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Impeach Nobama ! Vote the bastard out of office !. Whatever Nobama's
Chicago mob might have paid former Illinois Gov. Blagoyawich, or his pre
decessor, to buy Nobama's Senate seat in the same way Blagoyavich
tried to sell it again to Nobama's would be successor, wasn't enough to
sell us into Slavery. Imho, Nobama is disgusting to do worse than Bush
did yet run on a phony platform of change you can believe in. For God
sakes, he should wipe that shit eating grin off his heinous & infamous face.
Wait till he sees the Xmas present the American people have for his tree
next year. I truly hope he's a 1 hit wonder. He's no better than those 7 of 8
Republican clowns. - 5 months ago
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PressCore
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MotherForTruth
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Where can I find how each senator and each representative voted on this?
- 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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Lisayou
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MotherForTruth:
Here is what I found.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:6:./temp/~c112mdjVUg::
- 5 months ago
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Lisayou
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MotherForTruth
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Lisayou:
Thank you,
I found what I was looking for here.Senate votes at link
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2011-218
Congress votes at Link
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375 - 5 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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Anonmaly
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Hey Obama..... YOU'RE FIRED!!!!
Get your shit and get gone you extremist with a long history of associating with people & groups linked to radical extremism, from Rev. Wright, to the Weather Underground.... Be thankful no one sees the need to detain you, but you have until about January of 2013.....
Good-Bye.
- 6 months ago
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Anonmaly
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ProudMonkey
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And the hits just keep comin. Funny that the O Admin would push this...isn't Obama a constitutional lawyer? Or did I miss something. I can say this folks...you want to Occupy turn into a second Amendment solution....? Me either. But I do believe this is what the British did to early colonists...right? No representation...random searches and seizures...you know all of the stuff we now HAVE IN OUR CONSTITUTION TO PROTECT US FROM SHIT LIKE THIS???!!!
- 6 months ago
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ProudMonkey
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MotherForTruth
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ProudMonkey:
Those in power make all the rules.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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Joeydee44
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Mother, are you still pushing your anti-Obama campaign here?
- 6 months ago
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Joeydee44
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irie_ojo
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Joeydee44:
anti-obama campaign...? i voted for obama (lesser of two evils) the only thing that change was he went against everything he said he would do. wake the fuck up america is going to shit. they are trying, quite successfully, to suspend habeas corpus. drones are patrolling american skys. we are waging war all over the world. all for what. FEAR. our country seems to have been connected to or have even trained most of these so called "terrorist" that we run around the world hunting. America is just as much a terrorist state as is any other nation.
and this is all happening under obama. he is the same as those before if not worse, b/c he/they fooled a lot of people. and still have the support of others that have never cared about our political shit-u-ation in america... all b/c he is OBAMA.there is only as much anti-obama as obama is anti-obama.
- 6 months ago
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irie_ojo
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Joeydee44
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irie_ojo:
Yeah, well, don't give me some one minute clip from C-Span that may or may not be totally out of context and give me some b/s hyperbole about how Obama is selling us out to the fascists or whatever because I don't buy into this crap for one second. Too many people like to dice up this video or that video to support their own agendas and make it seem like they are speaking the clear vision of truth. Show me the final bill, show me the votes, and show me what the President signs. Everything else is just CHATTER.
- 6 months ago
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Joeydee44
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ProudMonkey
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Joeydee44:
@Joeydee44 - my outrage is that it made it into the act in the first place. The ability to arrest U.S. citizens without cause, warrant and detain them indefinitely is NOT acceptable...under any circumstance. I would love nothing more than to sit quietly by...but do you remember the following: Bush illegal wiretapping, arresting peaceful protesters, Bush torture...false war with Iraq? God only knows what else...all of those things should never have happened...but they did. So what would be a big stretch to take away our Bill of Rights?
- 6 months ago
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ProudMonkey
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MotherForTruth
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Joeydee44:
Are you for Obama? I voted for him and that proven to be a mistake.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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MotherForTruth
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irie_ojo:
You made some good points.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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MotherForTruth
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ProudMonkey:
Not acceptable indeed!
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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maasanova
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“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”
-Cicero
- 6 months ago
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maasanova
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MotherForTruth
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maasanova:
Those that speak out are the heroes! America is becoming the worse of the countries in the world.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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Leen61
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Got this from David Swanson's blog...it's on my thread as well...
http://bordc.org/ndaa/ - 6 months ago
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Leen61
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Vic_Romano
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I'll take him on his word that he'll veto this. He's not so stupid as to alienate much of his base in an upcoming election year. At least I hope not.
- 6 months ago
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Vic_Romano
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JanforGore
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Vic_Romano:
What does he care? No one is challenging him!
- 6 months ago
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JanforGore
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Vic_Romano
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JanforGore:
He cares about getting re-elected. I really believe that signing this into law would, for all intents and purposes, keep a significant number of people who voted for him in 2008 away from the polls. Put simply, he can't win if people are simply voting against the GOP nominee--he can only win if people vote FOR him.
- 6 months ago
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Vic_Romano
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tverdell
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Vic_Romano:
If he doesn't veto this, would you vote for Obama or Newt?
- 6 months ago
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tverdell
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Vic_Romano
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tverdell:
Neither.
- 6 months ago
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Vic_Romano
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MotherForTruth
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JanforGore:
The only one who is consistently speaks about freedoms and liberties is Ron Paul. But many Americans seem death and blind. I gave my vote to Obama's change and that was a huge mistake.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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MotherForTruth
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Vic_Romano:
You are forgetting that votes can be fixed.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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MotherForTruth
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Americans must know about this to stop it. Urgently pass this petition as widely as possible: http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-ndaa-section-1031-citizen-imprisonment-law-...
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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WakeUpPeople
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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
“He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.” ~Thomas Paine
- 6 months ago
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WakeUpPeople
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wolfess
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WakeUpPeople:
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to DISMEMBER, or OVERTHROW it." Abraham Lincoln.
- 6 months ago
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wolfess
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MotherForTruth
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WakeUpPeople:
My favorite quotes.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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MotherForTruth
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wolfess:
I want my America free to just that!
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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squarethecircle
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wouldn't that be quite a Christmas present? Remember...don't act belligerent.
- 6 months ago
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squarethecircle
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MotherForTruth
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squarethecircle:
We need a list of legal behaviors, I bet the list is very short.
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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Ambill94
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Interesting...these assholes haven't given him (BO) anything he has asked for to help the 99%; but to tag him with this bullshit repeatedly in 1:18...they are only doing what the Pres wants...they really think we are idiots...
I have signed the petition(s) written my Congressional reps and senators and the WH...this is O's defining moment...we will get to see if the emperor has any clothes or not...damn
- 6 months ago
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Ambill94
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JustZ
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This is the same shredding of U.S. citizen's rights that Bush pulled. If President Obama doesn't veto this crap, he should be shown the door.
- 6 months ago
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JustZ
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WakeUpPeople
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JustZ:
Absolutely.
- 6 months ago
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WakeUpPeople
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MotherForTruth
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JustZ:
Who will show him the door? And who will stand for our freedoms and liberties?
- 6 months ago
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MotherForTruth
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alexandrek [removed]
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JustZ: This comment was removed by its owner.
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alexandrek [removed]
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bourneverde
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alexandrek:
This is one of the only slightly intelligent things you have said. If only you had sentence structure that was higher than that of a second grader.
- 5 months ago
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bourneverde
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Dagum
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This is awful. Can it be stopped at this stage?
- 6 months ago
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Dagum
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wolfess
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Dagum:
Leen61 has the same story, but has included a petition to sign to keep this from becoming law. Her article is: Sign this petition now against indefinite detention.
- 6 months ago
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wolfess
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wolfess
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"any person who has committed a belligerent act"
What the fuck is a 'belligerent act'? Two-year-olds commit belligerent acts all the time --- does that mean he'll put 2-year-olds in prison for saying 'NO'?Pwr 2 the 99%! Dismember the 1% and their political WHORES -- and boy howdy does that include bush-dark! (Is that a belligerent act?)
- 6 months ago
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wolfess