White Folk On Welfare

This is just an ignorant statement. In America everyone does not have the same problems.

Our Muslim citizens are exposed to all types of the ugliest bigotry. Women still don't make as much as men for doing the same exact job. Black Americans represent 50% of the prison population in America despite being around 12% of the overall population.

I agree times are financially tough right now, but assuming we all have the same problems, especially in a country like ours, is a prime example of how we can let our ignorance keep the obvious hidden from us.

We don't have all the same problems. And it has been like that for a considerably long time.

If you ask me I think that are problems are the same and to say that they are different is the truly ignorant statement. Do Muslims face prejudice? Yes they most certainly do. So do blacks, Hispanics, even Jews and Gays. Or how about white folk, lets talk about the "hillbillies." Now that is a broad term but I more directly reference the extremely poorer portion of Caucasians in america. Often with little to no real education, little access to healthcare or dental care. Often same said individuals suffer from extreme malnutrition and find jobs such as mining or logging, that are harder on there bodies then they are prepared for, many suffering from heavy metal poising from birth. They are judged every time they try to step outside of their space but no one talks about it.
No one problem is greater than the other, some are more pressing in their need for address, however they are equal. People are suffering and that is what the focus needs to be, not that they are a member of one group or another, a good government sees no color, only its people. When a good government's peoples suffer, it spends little to no time on what color their skin is but rather what the need is. Some people need more education, others need better healthcare, still more need better sources of nutrition, and yet more suffer from all of the above and more. Now I know you will say that we do not have a good or benevolent government but by saying that you simply admit defeat because you forget that we are the government. In the end it is our words, our votes and our actions that drive our government. Everything is this country starts with the the voter, to believe otherwise is to surrender all this nation stands for.

Again, there is no debate that people from all walks of life have their particular issues, but they are not the same. I detailed a few of them in my previous response. Different social groups are simply affected more. And there is plenty of data available that illustrates this. I show you a few if you're open to it.

Of course we all have the same needs. This is fairly obvious. However, in America, access to the things you describe affect different social groups in different ways. If it was all equal we wouldn't have such blatant disparities across color, religious and gender lines.

Lastly, this country was built on dissent. Being critical of the government isn't admitting anything, but acknowledging that there are problems that need to be addressed. Voting is a part of it sure, but it is not, by far, the limit of what we can do to get us going in the right direction.

A big step, which I do think is the point of this entire post in a way, is to make yourself aware to the realities of ALL people in America, and not just relying on personal conjecture that is not supported by anything substantial. In an age where information is so readily available, it's embarrassing as an American and a global citizen that will still struggle with basic realizations of our society. We need to do better.

"Our Muslim citizens are exposed to all types of the ugliest bigotry." I think that is an overplayed stereotype.

Yes overplayed. While there are always examples of idiotic behavior, it doesn't amount to "all types of the ugliest bigotry." I think Christians face more ugly bigotry in the US than Muslims currently do. There has been amazingly little backlash against terrorist plots carried out by Muslims, or intended to be carried out by Muslims. This despite the fact that plots have now happened or been disrupted in LA, SF, Seattle, Denver, Phoenix, Arkansas, NYC, Tampa, Minneapolis, Detroit, DC, Virginia, Colorado, Connecticut, Dallas, San Antonio, North Carolina, Florida.

A recent NYT article stated that Jews are the most discriminated against group in the US and subjected to the vilest bigotry.

Again, the evidence does not support your claims. If you would care to actually read what was posted, you would see some of them detail concern at rash of anti-islam sentiment that is happening. This is not concern over a few isolated incidents, but concern over sustained criminal and bigoted behavior. You can say whatever you want but that doesn't make the evidence not true and apparent.

Ha, Christians persecuted? In America? Ha, come on...

This is not a conversation quantifying the depth of bigotry across ethnic lines. That is such a typical response from a person who just doesn't want to admit there is a problem. Of course the Jews in America face bigotry. Every non-white person in the US does. However, crudely making comparisons over who gets it worse does not disprove my original statement that Muslims still see very the ugliest forms of bigotry, again, as the evidence shows. America has the capability to showing bigotry to multiple people. Crazy concept, I know...

You are making claims based on your personal conjecture. Show me some evidence of what you are saying. It's cool. I'll wait.

"The evidence does not support your claim." Isolated instances of idiocy do not support your calim either. What was the reaction in any of the cities I mentioned? There was none.

"If you would care to actually read what was posted, you would see some of them detail concern at rash of anti-islam sentiment that is happening." I have read them in detail, but instead of personalizing it, chose dialogue.

"That is such a typical response from a person who just doesn't want to admit there is a problem." Discrimination in all its forms is a problem.

While I appreciate your above response I will leave it at that as the personalization tends to distract from discussion at hand. Good luck to you!

So even though there is documented evidence of hate crimes on the RISE, there is no reaction? You're just ignoring the data to reinforce what you believe. Typical.

The links demonstrate both isolated incidents AND concern being expressed over the rise of anti-Muslim sentiment. The only dialogue I am seeing from you at this point is personal opinion with no support.

Ha, we are agreed on that. However, ignorance about the nature of discrimination is just a big a problem as well, not to mention disrespectful to the people who actually go through something you never will.

And what personalization? I'm talking about your expressed views not your personal characteristics. I just want you to defend what you're saying with some hard evidence, which you still have yet to do. Otherwise, statement like what Muslim experience in America is 'overhyped' just sounds like whining.

Wow, really? I have to point out the personalization in your argument? Is the passion for your view point such that you cannot understand crossing bounds of decency with regard to dialogue?

You wrote:
""If you would care to actually read what was posted.." That is an insult and personalizing the argument.

You also wrote:
"That is such a typical response from a person who just doesn't want to admit there is a problem." This too is insulting and outside the realm of civility.

I long ago refrained from engaging in such tactics despite also being passionate about beliefs.

You have no idea about my race, my beliefs, or why I have been discriminated against. Again you cross lines you have no right to.

Good luck to you!

Ha, come on. You came at me, without knowing anything about my background or experiences as well, stating the bigotry Muslim Americans experience is 'an overplayed stereotype', without providing anything to support such a blatantly ignorant and disrespectful view about the easily demonstrable and sustained prejudice a group of people have endured, and you're going to complain about being 'civil'?

The word for that is hypocrisy.

Saying something is an overplayed stereotype in no way comes at you. At no point do I say anything about you personally or make assumptions about what you have been through in this life. If I had done, that and called you out for doing the same, indeed it would be hypocrisy.

Again, it must be your passion that compels you to use a pejorative phrase like "blatantly ignorant."

I have reread our "dialogue" and I thank you for the conversation but I feel we are taking away from the thread. If you wish to continue to explore out differences in a civil manner, please feel free to contact me.

Who are you to say what does and doesn't offend me? Just because you say something you don't think is offensive, doesn't mean that it isn't. Especially when you have nothing substantial to back it up.

And while you continue to give feign civility, you still have not explained or shown me anything to substantiate your initial statement, which is why I call it ignorant. If you do not like that, or it's not pleasant enough for you, then I suggest you stop making so wildly subjective statements concerning something you know nothing about.

Voted up

Now 13 year olds will be taking those janitor jobs.

You get $1000 a month for doing nothing? Hell, I'm moving to SF. No wonder California is going broke.

What white privilege, I would say these numbers indicate that white privilege is a thing of the past.

Well, your statement is kind of ridiculous. In a country of mostly white people, of course it would be mostly white people on it. That doesn't prove anything other than basic population dynamics.

Like I said before, it is an example of privilege that someone can live oblivious of such an obvious statistic, or to take it a step further to treat people a certain way based on that ignorance.

It is the idea that this information is revelatory that is an example of privilege, not the data itself. If this is a shock to you, you've just had your head in the sand.

I'm sorry perhaps my struggle is believing that this is news to anyone? Really a wee bit of critical thinking could bring you to this number. Especially in today's times, really think about, this is the first major recession in a long while. During the last one the thing to do was fire the black folks first then the other miscellaneous colors, then the whites last. Today corporations don't care about race their only concern is numbers, if you are good for numbers your shot was better than if you weren't. More often than not they just fired everybody, leaving no survivors.

Well, I would agree. It is a sad commentary that in this day and age that this counts as 'shocking'. This is why I say it is a matter of privilege that some are allowed to go through life being so ignorant of the world they live in. It's ridiculous, so are in agreement about that.

The thing is it's not about anyone thing in America. It's about money AND what color you are. For example, while we are all affected by the recession, Black Americans are by and large the most affected by it. Jobless rates are almost double in the Black community as opposed to their white counter parts. A white felon is more likely to be hired than an equal skilled Black American of the same skill level and no criminal record. America still very much cares about color.

I think we can agree that the corporate culture in America is the source of a lot of our problems. But those companies are ran by people. People who still perpetuate the inequality that has always plagued us. Yes it is hard conversation, but you have to respect the history of our country and its context on today's cultural landscape. A lot of peoples' lives are still affected by prejudice in very real ways.

The reason why this news is so shocking is because there is a social stigma associated with Welfare. It can be heard from the lips of Republican Candidates or the likes of Newt Gingrich, who believe in preaching "Pay Checks not Welfare Checks" to the NAACP. The stigma puts the focus on minorities as leading beneficiaries of Welfare, when the truth is far more stark and serious. It's not something which is commonly reported by the media, and has been left largely silent and unspoken.

I don't think anyone is arguing about privilege or who has it worse. Racial inequality is a real problem in the US. However, the news here is that when it comes to unemployment, and the depths of disparity our nation has plunged into, no one is safe. Not even the (as you so put it) "privileged" white class.

I, myself, am amazed at how the super rich of our nation have never been richer, and the poor, have never been more poor. I'm amazed at how people still go up to bat for corporations when they are suffering the least.

There is a totally different mindset, no doubt. I would be ashamed to go on welfare.

Thanks for that research and you have touched upon a point that is extremely important in this debate. The deliberate misleading of the public around this issue, the maligned characterization of people "sucking off the govt. tit"...these are all polical-linguistic-trickery to extract votes and push people's anger and fear buttons...they aren't supposed to reflect the truth.

It looks like when people give the welfare and food stamp costs high budget percentages, they are talking about what the Library of Congress called the expanded definition. This definition includes all one-way transfers and benefits combined. Grants, schools, veterans and anything else they can use to make it seem like more goes to welfare checks and food stamps than actually does. I'm saying it looks that way. I don't know. I wish someone could find some more up to date data on the cost of A.F.D.C. and Food Stamps alone.

I did the same kind of research on Canada's welfare budget about a 2 years ago for a little disagreement I was having with a family member on the costs of welfare. Not surprisingly, our expenditures were almost exactly the same. About 1% of the total budget.

Who is justifing it?

Every republican candidate for one. Hell they can't stop putting their racist/bigoted feet in their mouths. Maybe you've not been watching the debates or their interviews but according to the righties they have to educate them on how a paycheck is better than foodstamps or a welfare check. They did not include whites in their remarks. They are going back to tried and true stereotypes of how they classify african-americans as if they are the only ones receiving aid. Just as they have hounded President Obama and made up reasons he wasn't a citizen, or lied about him being a muslim, or called him every name except a "Ni**er". There is a large part of white america that needs to move past the civil war, civil rights, and equality and treat everyone the same. We hear it because we are white and many feel free to express their bigotry/racism as if their being equal is the root of all our ills. It is the wealthy protected by the republicans & democrats who are taking our country for a ride while the majority of it suffers because of it. They could care less what race, color, or creed you are. Sadly, many republicans vote against their own best interests because they wrap the issues around God, guns, and gays to keep you in line.

I don't like lazy white people sucking off the government either, that make you feel better?

spot on abbynrml....nailed it!

Actually it's okay for all, or okay for none...

And so a few racist (elitist) republicans play on ignorance and turn it into a race issue.... Nothing new there, but more and more republicans aren't even buying into it. If for no other reason there is the fact white people should be becoming a "minority" by about 2050.... Yes some of us might have descendants here when the days comes... What there will just be racist colonies of white people staring down there noses at an overwhelming Latino population, few and far between my friend...

And that lovely democrat elitist that's in office, although his elitism isn't based on race is none better. Hope he chokes on his "Fiji Water".....

I agree
a person with a paycheck is a second class citizen

If they are skilled middle class, they shouldn't need programs for the poor.

The jobs we did , were moved over seas long ago .