Obama rejects Keystone oil pipeline

You got it. The association itself is managed by a bunch of lawyers whose personal motivation is to act like big shots." Hey, look at me I sent Obummer a letter and made him jump through a hoop, ain't I something, send more dues money, and fly me out to the ranch for some boos and whores".

Actually it is MUCH safer to use alternative sources , no water gets polluted , no air gets poisoned , no land gets waisted beyond use of any living things . How about those new tidal generators ? NO environmental impact and powers 1500 homes for ONE generator ? That , is SAFE .

i agree with you there.

What, you mean for the first time in, like, 30 years?

Sorry friend, depending on competency from the American government or its people is a pretty consistently unreliable bet.

Good luck on your side, we'll do what we can over here.

"I wish that Americans and Canadians would start taking environmental issues more seriously."

Oh do I share that wish with you.

It is not. Both coal and oil are used to get tar sands.

My main concern with the tars sands is strictly selfish because of the impact on the Northwest Territories.

You do raise valid concerns on the overall issue however, and they should be thoroughly examined before any decisions of this magnitude are made. Oil maybe a better alternative to coal, except this type of oil is dirty and almost as bad as coal. Unfortunately, there are very few politicians that will actually sit down and have an honest discussion on environmental issues. Instead it becomes political football in both Canada and the US that is toss back and forth for brownie points. There are many groups in Canada that oppose any pipeline from the tar sands. However, keep in mind that the population in Northern Alberta and the Northwest Territories is relatively small so we have very little say on the tar sands and what impact it is having on us. The oil industry basically runs Alberta and since Alberta is booming it seems most Albertans don't want to rock the boat by complaining too loudly. That leaves environmentalist and Native organizations/tribes to fight for everyone.

I wondered if as an alternative they ever thought of refining the oil in Fort McMurray and then shipping it by truck? Would that be safer than a pipeline? I don't know, but the Canadian government seems to want these tar sands no matter what the environmental impact. So I would like to see a cost benefit analysis on this (both cost wise and environmental) and let the people decide. Currently, the Canadian government doesn't seem willing or interested at looking at other energy alternatives.

I really fear that the Mayan calendar that predicts 2012 as the end of the world may have more to do with a major environmental disaster that will change with world forever than anything else. JMO.

Thanks for the insightful feedback.

Thanks for the info. I now know why it is called the dirty oil.

Tarsands are much dirtier and much more CO2 intensive than oil and coal and uses an overabundance of water to process as well. It is actually the worst evil. However, this country is importing more of it from Canada than oil from anywhere else. But don't worry, the climate tipping point according to the IEA is a long five years away. We've got plenty of time to continue to dig up and burn every inch of coal and oil on the planet and burn it and of course, everything will be just fine if we do... That is, according to polticians and deniers. Sane people however, know the stakes and that is why this decision is so anti-climactic to me because this is about more than temporarily denying some pipe being laid. This tarsands will be burned regardless and that is what needs to be addressed. James Hansen states it is climate over and actually that has not been addressed by Republicans or many Democrats regarding this project. They should build a "solar pipeline" down that route to bring clean energy to this country. That isn't even an evil, that is logic and would be a bold move.

http://current.com/technology/93582342_tar-sands-crude-is-choking-america.htm
We have to be the catalyst to now choke the oil industry.

I'm just a layman and do not understand all the science behind these issues like some on here do. So I am no way an expert and can only speak about the damage global pollution has caused to the environment in the Northwest Territories.

I have lived here over 35 years and in the last five years, in particular, we have seen drastic weather changes. Our winters are shorter and warmer. Our summers cooler and wetter. This has had a dramatic impact on our ecological system. Just speak to an elder up here. They can predict the type of winter we will have and they are very concerned. The sad part is the Canadian Government doesn't seem to care what we have to say. The Territorial Government is starting their own review on the impact of global climate change and I am going to be very interested in what it will tell us. I just hope the Federal Government doesn't silence the results. Currently, a lot of our fish have too much mercury (which has been shown comes from emissions) and as a result they are inedible. If this continues it will affect our entire food chain.

I would be nice if we could have reasonable discussions with believers and deniers without the name calling or insults. It seems that global climate change deniers won't even discuss it, they just claim it is all a lie. Environmentalist, whom I have a affinity for, because I think they are trying to save the world, talk way over my head most of the time. I wish they would bring it down to my level and explain what I as an individual can do to help the cause.

I do believe that we have to start now not later looking for alternative energy sources or it will be too late to prevent additional damage to the planet. But it has to start with open and honest discussions without the involvement of politics. Unfortunately, in this day and age it seems like a pipe dream (pardon my pun).

Less money or less environment?

Very good point!

Yes, for now, until they get their reapplication filed and plan another route through the US for the oil being shipped to China anyway since there really is no other route open to them at this time because of opposition. And your point is accurate. It is the people who stood vigil outside the White House, the people who got arrested, the people who blogged, who sent letters, who signed petitions, who spent days online protesting with those in DC and who got this noticed who deserve any credit at all for any decision on this, as anticlimactic as it may seem to some. But you won't see any appreciation given to them by those who are only using this politically to make it about him (pro or con.)

I see your point, however, I'm glad that the President had the balls to come out way before the timeline giving him my Congress to make this decision. By announcing this decision now he is giving the opposition an additional month to bash him.

That being said, I do believe that the protest in both the US and in Canada helped him decide and they should be applauded for all their hard work. However, you also have to remember that he doesn't just have the GOP and big oil pressuring him to approve this pipeline, he also has the Canada Government (controlled right now by the Conservatives) making it an international issue that the President has to deal with. Harper has been constantly complaining that US conservationists, such as Robert Redford (whom he actually named) were behind Canadians being against the pipeline. Harper's been trying to squash the opposition to all tar sand projects.

Protests need to continue. Don't view this as a final victory. Big oil has too much money to flood the airwaves with their lies. If we can educate people on the harm this dirty oil is doing to the environment and to people's health, maybe this issue can unite US and Canada's opposition and put a stop to it.

By the way, I have never understood how the GOP and the Conservatives in Canada can call themselves "conservatives" when they never want to conserve anything, except maybe the wealth of the rich.

Congress had no authority to give a timeliine in the first place as far as I am concerned. This is a trans-national issue and they all knew that since Congress wasn't involved in the first phase being laid to Wisconsin. This was grandstanding on all their parts. And I don't view it as a victory since any tarsands that would have gone through there will eventually wind up being burned anyway. The tarsands are still in business today and millions more tons of pollution will be spewed into the atmosphere. I can't celebrate that nor do I understand how any side can say they are for addressing climate change while allowing this to continue.

It would sure help if we vote out the teapartiers that we let take over last year.
Obama has been President for 3 whole years now.
I'm disappointed that he hasn't landed a man on Mars yet!
Or has he??? ;)

no,but he is scheduled to walk on water soon...his decision to squash this project shows guts...give credit where it is due.

Could be he has and is. :)

"Two former participants in the CIA’s Mars visitation program of the early 1980’s have confirmed that U.S. President Barack H. Obama was enrolled in their Mars training class in 1980 and was among the young Americans from the program who they later encountered on the Martian surface."

http://current.com/http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1533/796/Obama_Transported_To_...

I like your twisted sense of humor!
I think you're the only one who got mine.....^^^^

Well if he has it was the wrong man --- I think that would be the perfect place for the koch[suckers], McConnell, Boehner, Cantor, Walker, and Ryan :-).

Pwr 2 the 99%! SHOOT the 1% and their repteatards into space!

Got to grin every once in a while.

Putting oneself in the position of being criticized by the opposition party because of the jobs that will be lost , is not a "politically expedient thing to do." He did what was right . I told another poster only this morning that certain people would complain and denigrate him even when he rejected it, and was I correct.

There is only one real view of this and that is science. It Says If we continue dumping shit in the environment We are going to screw our weather in a bad way.

You were correct Joe. I thank the president for stopping this pipeline. I knew some would never give him credit for doing anything,yet has complained about the pipeline.

Exactly. And the tarsands continue.

And what does my comment have to do with what you just said? I support the rejection of this pipeline and am a believer in science and climate change. I do not support whiners who refuse to place credit where credit is due. Perhaps you need to re-assess my words before you makes statements that don't relate to my original comment.

Where do I diagree with honesty? I disgree with your intransigent refusal to grant any credit all to the administration for making the correct decision. Hell, I even gave that imbecile Bush credit for the things he did right, like Medicare Part D, without giving an inch
on the fool's disatrous conduct otherwise. It's called being objective and fair.

He could have done more. The problem with the pipeline is not being public talked about. The tar sands are already killing!

Then state what your actual opinion is from the very beginning and stop misrepresenting mine.
Done more? It's at the stage where the only options were to reject it ,or study the future of the option to go futher, and there is no time to conduct that study, so it was rejected. What would YOU like him to do? Give an hour State of the Union address on every major issue
that faces the country? I don't know what forms of media you watch or read, but the pipeline is being discussed every place I puruse. Maybe you should change your means of receiving information.
Some people will never be satisfied no matter what Obama does. As Bette Midler used to say to her very demanding audiences who wanted more, more more, " I'd hate to be the hooker who found herself with you all."

When did it become a part of politics to be apologists because leaders sometimes have to make unpopular decisions?

It's not our job to pat him on the back for making mediocre decisions just because he takes a hit from his opposition. He shot himself in the foot, I'm not going to make excuses for that.

If he had any balls, he'd take his opposition head on. He'd come out and say it was the right things to do. Why apologists refuse to understand this I just don't get.

You live in a Republican world. If you don't start playing politics like Republicans do, you lose. Period.

If he had any political clout whatsoever, he'd come out and say that Republicans want to kill green jobs and increase America's dependency on foreign countries. He'd back his god damn position, even if he had to use sophistry and borderline propaganda to make the point.

But no, instead he does something expedient and we're supposed to be apologists for his own inability to defend his administration's decisions.

His opposition has declared war on him. Every decision he makes and every statement he puts out should recognize that fact.

If you want to be an apologist, be my guest. But it just makes you a Republican enabler. And the Independents he thinks he's winning over like this can *smell* that his decisions are mercenary.

I don't waste my time on such silly nonesense when there is so much "disinformation" on Current to debunk.. Not everybody agrees with my opinion and when they vote me down, I don't disintergrate into tears or whine about down votes. I also don't expect people to tow my line 100% , and then damn them for being traitors to the cause. I leave that immature twaddle to the extremists. Anyone secure in their opinion should not give any credence to a down vote.

There are those here who wouldn't give him credit if he achieved Word Peace tomorrow.
I'm so glad they are in such a distinct minority.

I'm not apologizing for ANYBODY. Giving credit where credit is due is not being an apologist. I'm sorry your glass is always half empty; mine is always half full. After 40 years of fighting for liberal causes I have discovered that one thing is true: you can acheive much from being on the inside and using your influence to get things done. Or you can stand on the outside and bitch, but it won't get you anywhere. I joined Obama in his fight for gay rights and in the past 3 years have achieved goals that I spent 37 years on the outside fighting for and got nowhere but pushed even further back. AND, I give him all the credit he deserves for it. Whether or not you achieve you priorities is up to you and your actions. You may sit there espousing theorhetical nonesense untill your head spins if you like. I prefer action to words. In the interum, I'm getting shit done.

your comments are spot on,no way could a president tackle ALL of these issues with this current congress.

There are others here who don't agree with your every word . Perhaps you should aim your antipathy at them for a change. Anyone who posts here should at least be aware that not every opinion they offer will be greeted by universal admiration. Being here from the beginning doesn't mean much, unless you LIKE cheap watches.

Sorry, when it comes to political activists, I side with Occupy, not apologists.

It's clear to anyone who's followed this issue that his switch in position on this issue was a mercenary one following weeks of protest your so-called activists were never at.

So who's making real change here? Who's the one who's actually getting shit done?

Presidents don't need cheerleaders, especially when they compromise as much as Obama does. They need clear reminders of what they're supposed to be accomplishing and what's at stake if they don't. Excusing the failures and loudmouthing meager successes only hinders that effort.

If you want to pretend like that makes you an optimist, go ahead. The correct word for it is shill.

If you want to pretend like it's pragmatic, ask yourself how far Clinton's supporters got him.

This country is on the brink of financial, environmental and economic collapse. The fact that Obama got rid of DADT (even though the courts were set to get rid of it anyway) doesn't change that fact.

Are you still going to support him if he goes to war with Iran? If the financial system collapses yet again in the absence of derivatives regulation or Glass-Steagal? If he actually ends up using any of these fancy new dictatorial powers he extended from the Bush Administration?

If so, then this whole thing is just a game to you, it means nothing.

If not, then you just haven't reached your limit yet, for reasons I don't yet understand.

There was a time in this country when Liberal leaders were strong and didn't let assholes block their agenda. From FDR to LBJ that was true. Now that enthusiasm has switched to the Republicans, who are so much better at bullshitting the public it's insane.

I don't want blue-dogs and Diet-Republicans in my party. And the more we cater to the right, the more we excuse Democratic failure, the more you enable them.

Don't get discouraged just keep sharing the truth and Let the cards fall where they do. There is a chance that people won't listen until it is to late. A mountain cave is looking better and better.

Right again Joe. Distinct minority.

Just looking at this through a political prism doesn't even begin to show the devastation this continues to wreck upon the planet in so many ways. And knowing what the fossil fuel industry is all about, I know this isn't going away. The only thing we can be grateful for is that the Ogalalla Aquifer (at least for now) has been spared.

Well, aren't you special? You're nobody's shill. Sorry to tell you but it's worse than that for you. You're the ones they ignore and piss on becuse they know you are in an extreme minority--the ones who are unreasonable, the ones who demand everything yesterday and expect it then, the ones who scream their irrational expectations in other people's faces and call it political discourse--they just roll their eyes and walk away from you because you have no power and don't count. We " shills " as you call us, sit at the table and issue our demands from our organizations that have actual standing within the party and back up our demands with the votes from 759,000 members, as we have in the Human Right's Campaign, and we are listened to and never ignored because 89% of our organization supports the party's goals, so the party supports us and take our demands seriously, thereby acheiving real change and concrete laws to protect us. Do you honestly think that Obama had only repealed DADT that we would support him if that was all he's done? Try a simple Google search for this administrations record on gay rights and you will find at least 38 different laws passed and executive orders issued to improve the legal standing and every day life of the LGBT community. Why? Because we have the power to demand it since 78% of us voted for him the last time and a greatrer number will, according to our polling of our membership, vote for him this time.

Now, a small history lesson for you about the LBJ years since I lived through them. The 1964 election gave Johnson a 68 veto proof majority in the Senate and an overwhelming majority in the House of Representatives,along with a 6 vote liberal majority on the Supreme Court. There were also very liberal members of the Republican party who refused to fillibuster Johnson's bills because they agreed with them and helped him pass his transformational legislation. The same situation
existed for FDR in the New Deal Era minus the co-operative republicans. Obama NEVER had the luxury of that situation, NEVER. To hold him to the same standards and expectations as LBJ , JFK or FDR is preposterous under the circumstances with the vitriolic hatred and refusal to compromise coming from the republican/teabaggers.

You certainly know how to offend by using patronizing words like " apologist, Blue-Dogs,
Republican-lite." Who the hell are you to tell me that I fit any of those categories because I refuse to support the deliberate and unfounded denigration that a small percentage of my party uses to undermine the only real prospect for change this country has had in 40 years? Your " I want it and I want it now" philosophy is something that even the majority of loyal liberals are rejecting en masse , as the latest polls show that 82% of those who call themselves liberals intend to support and vote for Obama. A fact that you don't care for, but one that is nevertheless accurate. The other 18% of whiners are unreachable and attention will not be paid. If you think for one second that you represent the will and the opinion of the majority of this party , you are sadly mistaken. The facts do not support your conclusion and the raging and railing that goes on here at Current on a daily basis is in no way representative of the party as a whole.

So vote 3rd party, we don't care. Vote republican, we don't care. Don't vote, we don't care.Cut off your nose to spite your face, we don't care.Obstructionism gets you nowhere....reality is a bitch, isn't it?

You claim the moral high road and then come on here and sling lies and accusations around with impunity. The last time I spoke to the moderators, it's was an attack to accuse somebody of being a sock or having multiple accounts without substatiation. Put up or shut up.

And that has to do with me HOW?

You got that right! By the way did you get my PM?

good reply
just had to jump in
vote you up

Your fucking post isn't even worth addressing, it's just so much self-righteous wank. You've deluded yourself into believing you're making a difference. Fuck off, you don't do anything. And your HRC is just a money making scam, I should know I used to be a member.

Get out of my party if you think torture, infinite war and detention, deregulation, crushing of unions and corporate corruption are all "moderate" stances.

And that's the most telling thing here, you don't even have anything to *say* about those practices. You didn't even respond to that.

We'd still be talking about the fucking debt if REAL god damn people didn't stand up and say "enough, this is about jobs, corruption and inequality."

Did sucking up to Obama get us any of that? Hell no. And he's probably lose some seats in 2012 too if we didn't change the focus. We're doing your job better than *you* are, and we don't even want to.

The Democrats need a tea party of their own to kick corrupt fools like you right the hell out.

Call yourself whatever you want, a shill is still a shill.

And you're just going to have to bite your tongue and pretend like Obama still believes in liberal values when he appoints Larry Summers to be leader of the world bank, when he fucks us all over again in his new budget to appease Republicans, when he starts another war, when he cuts social security and medicare instead of raising taxes.

The only thing special here is the special pleading fallacy coming from you. That it's different when our guys are corrupt compared to when their guys are corrupt. That our wars are different. That our torture is different. That our corporate bribes are different from theirs. They're NOT.

The Republican boogeyman may scare me into voting for Obama again, but I will *never* be dumb enough to believe this is what any of us wanted NOR the best we could have hoped for.

So go ahead, delude yourself. But you said it. Reality IS a bitch, and it's not gonna feel so good when we have another financial crash, or another war, or more torture, or more corruption because of his compromises now is it?

I think you have that 100% correct.

Whoa...outstanding rant saladin!

Self -indulgent ,delusional rants like that only prove my point. The slander is fairly expected from an irrational idealogue such as yourself. You have no sense of history, your perception is non functioning, and your ability to deal with reality is questionable. Since you no longer agree with the values my party espouses, perhaps it is you who need to change allegiances. I'm not going anywhere.

The Democratic is not the party of torture, K street, war, corruption or anti-union thuggery.

If you believe in any of that shit, you were never in this party to begin with as far as I'm concerned.

It's fucking absurd, literally god damn insane, that you think not believing in any of those things makes one an "ideologue."

Oh yeah, because torture and corruption are just pragmatic right? It's just so sensible to appoint an architect of the financial crash to the world bank.

What an ideological radical I am to oppose things like that. How short-sighted of me to expect Obama to make decisions that are better for the long-term.

Do you even understand what you're saying? You're just like Obama and his DNC losers, you don't fucking believe in anything. You don't even care. Politics is like a football game to you.

It's like it doesn't even occur to you that peoples' lives are at stake here.

I am fully aware that people's lives are at stake here, and mine is one of them . Which is why I will not allow extremists to distract from what is truly important; keeping republican extremists from the other side from destroying the social safety net, undermining my civil rights, starting more needless , unending wars, denigrating the poor, denying voter rights, preventing a woman from deciding what to do with her own body, abolishing unions, denying equal rights to gays, allowing corporate whores to continue to buy our society and a plethora of other LIBERAL causes I have held as priorities my whole life. I will not contribute in any way, especially by backstabbing an honorable man, to the possibility of a conservative victory, which is the antithesis of everything I believe in, just so I can stand on my precious principles on a few issues that have no direct influence on the daily lives of my countrymen. If you wish to put your priorities of defending the rights of terrorists over the other more impending issues, do so. Don't expect any support from me or the other 82%
of liberals in the party who support the president.
" Do you even understand what you're saying?" Goddamned right I do. Obama does not support torture, he ended it. Obama is not destroying unions--that's an objective of Republicans and the unions overwhelinly support him and he them. Obama is not a warmonger. He ended Iraq, he concluded the Libyan conflict with concise and clear objectives, he's downsizing in Afghanistan and doing his best to avoid any military action with Iran. Calling him a thug is a figment of your radical agenda. Guantanamo is still open because Congress fought it's closing.
Do I care that you think my credentials as a Democrat are not sufficient to meet your standards? Not in the least. Because I will have the consolation of knowing I did what was right to protect our system from the horrific agenda of the conservative swine who wish to grab power only to service their wealthy masters and consolidate that power in the hands of the few. I am an Obamabot, an Obamabot for progress and real reform. If you don't like it,
that's just too freaking bad. I'll fight you every step of the way since I will not allow the forces of negativity, and unrealistic expectations ,to throw my causes back a 100 years.
So sit there smugly and call me any names you like, it makes no difference to me. I will continue to post threads and comments that support my viewpoint and challenge yours no matter what hateful and distasteful epithets you throw in my direction.

You are right ithink. Boehner and his clowns immediately critized the president for stopping jobs, yet they stopped the president from creating infrastructure jobs and rebuilding our country. . Hypocrits!

You can say that again.

they just shut down two of our refineries on the east coast
the pipe line running from canada to the gulf will pump oil directly on to tankers for the highest bidder and we get no income from that oil only the right to let it go across land
also the steel pipe and oil processing equipment is built in china

Most times, he does. It's only the deluded few who refuse to recognize that , or give credit where credit is due. This is cause for celebration, I know you and I will, but many here will bitch and moan, whine and flaggelate themselves into a tizzy to avoid giving that credit.

I am still pissed at him for the Defense Act.

Yeah. One in four times, he'll do that.

You're not alone.

right on you took the words out of my mouth
I vote you up

Thanks for the support cm101. I return the favor often.