Transformation of the US into a cheap labor haven by the Obama administration and the corporations

So what you're saying, is basically the lesser of all evils argument, here's the problem with that.

The important thing to understand here, is recognizing the difference, between subjective and objective reality. If I say to you that two and two equals four, it is not MY truth, but objective truth, the same argument holds, for the description and formulae of gravity, it is not MY truth but objective truth, one must reconcile that there is such a thing as objective truth, without doing so, ultimately no reason as possible.

The same thing holds for Obama, all his actions so far during his presidency, support the fact that he is a plutocrat, I am not stating this because of partisan politics per se, I'm simply trying to explain his behavior thus far, and I am no more disappointed in him than I would be putting a proverbial fox in charge of a henhouse, whatever the Fox does is because of its nature and its function, to expect anything different, is not being realistic.

In short, the overall thrust of this country in the last 30+ years, has been towards continual and progressive corporate control of our government, leading inexorably to the next phase of capitalism, Fascism.

Republican and Libertarian philosophy and implementation, of fascist policies as quickly, and unabashedly as possible is to be expected, not so with Obama or the "democratic" party, the general public, obviously such as, yourself, still genuinely believes that there is a difference, in reality, there is not.

To use the simplest analogy, let's say you had a car, that was going along on a straightaway towards a cliff, and let's say that it's a given, that the car absolutely positively is going to go over that cliff, no possible options are available except one, the car will either go over the cliff in low gear or in high gear, But the car is absolutely going to go over a cliff.

Now let's say you happen to be a passenger in that car, and as I said we have absolutely stipulated that the car is going to go over the cliff, meaning there is a very high probability that you will die, the only remaining question therefore, is if you had any option at all, do you want the car to head towards the cliff very rapidly in high gear, or do you want to maximize as many of your remaining life moments as possible, and tell the driver to put it in low gear, that is what Obama, or any other so-called liberal/progressive Democrat represents, low gear, but the outcome will most assuredly be the same.

In short, Washington is run by and for plutocrats, (very sociopathic plutocrats I might add) that control our government and yes the presidency, and they are absolutely hell-bent on satisfying personal greed and the so-called power that comes with it, and they are willing to kill any and all and sacrifice an entire country to make that "success" a reality, that is the simple truth of the situation, the sooner one understands that situation, the sooner we can come up with a realistic solution to the problem, otherwise, there is none, and things (just as they have for the last 30+ years which is objectively true and provable) will inexorably get worse, much worse, there is hope, and there is a better option, but it is not by following the dictates and "rules" made up by the very same people who put those "rules" in place, those rules are complete and utter bullshit, and they are not the answer to fixing the problem that we all are collectively involved in and suffering under, take care.

There is much more than the lesser of two evils here. Right now we have a reactionary agenda actively in the forefront of the Republican party. In the last two years since the Republicans were spewed into our lives once again in the 2010 debacle, we have been witness to an assault on civil and worker rights, an assault on abortion rights, on Gay rights. Scott Walker of Wisconsin spearheaded an assault on worker rights. Michigan Governor Rick Righty instituted a quasi totalitarian program publically called a financial Marshall Law in which the state has the right to take over a local elected goverment and run it themselves. Or what about what Rick Scott is doing in Florida to hinder voting rights. Check out New Jersey Chris Christie who may very well run for president one day when they erect a much bigger white house by the way.Remeber John Kasich of Ohio. I hear that a woman can't get an abortion in Kansas except in one city.

I am not in a runaway car going over a cliff "V". I am on a battlefield about to go over the hill in the line of fire. All the commanding officers come from rich connected families. The higher the rank, the further they are from the battle field. But one general, a self made millionaire, comes down to the troops and fights along side them. He is General Obama. while another general, call him General Romney, chooses to fight the enemy by closing down many of his platoons and shipping the work overseas. In order for me to get out of this situation alive, I need to turn to the one General I think is out for my best interest. Once the war is over and I am off the battle field, I can be grateful to this general for getting me through, but that doesn't stop me from questioning his association with the ruling class. That doesn't stop me from fighting for a true social democracy. But during the battle is the wrong time to try and throw a good leader into the crush pit. And then end up with a leader all of us will truly despise.

Right now, the reactionary Republican party is out to destroy what is left of any freedom we may think we have. I know that this sounds like fear mongering in reverse, but this time,the threat is real. We've been so inundated with fear campaigns and all the lies they bring thereof, we have become afflicted with the cry wolf syndrome. This time the threat is for real. If you want to get rid of the plutocrats, you have to first get this "nice" plutocrat Obama re-elected. THEN and only then do you begin the push for a third party for the future elections.

The Republican party is hoping that a third party arises right now whether far right or far left. Either way, they would draw votes away from the mainstream candidates, and this year we can't afford that unless you would rather watch a Gingrich or Romney presidency.

The next and most important thing all of us should do right now is demand the repeal of Citizen's United. I want big money out of our political system. I want a social multiparty democracy. Citizens United is an obstacle to that goal and must be repealed at all costs. Obama bashing is not going to get big money out of politics. Thanks to Citizen's United, big money is there in spades (no pun intended). Repealing Cititzens United is an objective we can reach, but Obama bashing will get us nowhere near that goal. It will simply give us a Republican reactionary president with a car that we can drive safely over the cliff into the battlefield only to find the conveyance is just not made to withstand missiles.

I just bought my first town house in my life. As far as I am concerned this is because the economy is getting better which is no doubt due to the efforts of President Obama and his team. I know that to some that makes me a schmuck for believing that.

I say f-- em.

PS There is one thing that you and the Republican party has in common. You both want to see Obama be a one term president. You may get your wish to the detriment of us all.

Thud, thud, thud, hear that? It's the sound of me pounding my head against a fucking wall, somehow, for some unfathomable reason, you either cannot read, or failed to comprehend what I said.

First off, look up the word Plutocracy, then read what I said, over and over and over again If necessary, I am not anti-Obama per se, and if it makes you feel any better, unless there is some dramatic change in the near future, he'll most certainly get a second term, but again, that's not the point here.

In your first paragraph, you talk about all the terrible shit that's coming from Republicans, but you speak about it as though it just started a couple of years ago, Jesus Christ man, they have been doing the same old Sociopathic song and dance of enriching the rich by stealing from the working poor and middle class (Whatever tiny percentage of the middle class that's actually left in this country) that has been going on for at least 35 years, and you're talking about their shit going on since 2010? where the fuck have you been, under a rock?

Do I think you're A Schmuck? No.

Do I think you're uninformed and/or Misinformed? Absolutely.

It is important not to confuse, what basically amounts to either holding ground (although it is objectively verifiable that the Obama administration has done good things for the gay community) or losing ground at a much slower rate, then the full throttle tyranny under any Republican-control, in either case, unless something dramatic is done NOW, we will eventually end up with a full blown corporate controlled fascist state, and ultimately, it doesn't matter which party gets in control, there is only really ONE party In America, the plutocratic party, which has become completely subservient to the interests of corporate America, that's the bottom line.

To summarize, like many many people in this country, you are very good at seeing the trees, but incredibly blind to the forest, because if you were not, you would understand that we do not live in a democracy at this time, but a plutocracy, (actually, we live in a Plutocratic Republic with a few democratic elements, as we have since the founding of this country) and a plutocracy has absolutely no interest in true democracy (true democracy of course being the antithesis of a plutocracy) but they are VERY interested
in creating and maintaining the illusion of a democracy, which is what apparently you and many others have bought into. Please stop trying to talk to me about Obama this and Obama that, Obama is a plutocrat, pure and simple, and plutocrats always support the interest of a plutocracy first, always.

Still don't believe me? Wait till after he gets his second term, and see how much better conditions for the average citizen in this country are, I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that things will not improve to any substantial degree, as a matter of fact, I would wager that things will get increasingly worse, just wait and see.Take care.

First of all, do you know how to read? After 2010, the assaults on civil and worker rights heated up beyond McCarthy levels, But I am very aware that the Republican Party has been f--king over the middle class for over 35 years and beyond. I am not a great fan of Ed Schultz, but I love his diagram on how the rich have seen an increase in wealth while the middle class has stayed stagnant. I am also aware of this horrible plutocracy we are living in. Specifically, we live in a Democratic Plutocratic Republic. Democratic Republic because we have a choice between two rich people's parties.

You go on and on about the danger of our country becoming reactionary and yet you totally ignore my points on Citizen's United. If you want to begin getting money out of politics, you and the rest of us have to demand an appeal of Citizen's United. We have to also make sure this sitting president is re-elected and only then should we start our work on getting a decent progressive in the running. We should also support and participate in the Occupy Movement. These youngsters will help transform our social system into something better than what we have now.

You know very little about me. I am not deluded or misquided as you seem to think. The fact that I like and respect you does not change the fact that bullshit is bullshit. You are not misinformed about the state of our "democracy", but I see no practical solution from you, just whining.

Right now, there is NO WAY that any third party candidate will win. Right now, we are stuck with the political system we have. And while I always hated voting for one rich asshole over another, at least on the Democratic side, they pay lip service to civil and worker rights. I mean I loved Obama's speech, but when he started talking about getting rid of incompetent teachers and not incompetent parents, when he started talking about fracking, I thought for a moment we had a Republican up there making a speech. I am sick to death of a middle of the road blue dog Democratic partythat is afraid to be as progressive as the Republicans are reactionary. I believe we must inject some real social democracy into our system or else, as you say, become a corporate theocratic oligarchy.

As long as Citizens United is in force, we can forget about democracy or anything. And if this sitting president is defeated, you can be sure that I am going to seriously consider my second amendment option which I will use to repell the reactionary hordes from my door.

PS As I said, I just bought a townhouse, so things are getting better for me. And I give this president some credit for that.

Is he an angel? NO Am I an Obamanut? No!!! I happen to hate politics and politicians, but you have to know as much about these people as you can because their policies can f--k you over just like THAT!!! Started reading Herbert Marcuse's One Dimensional Man. It was first published in 1964. So far, and I just began reading it, the book is as relevant today as it was fifty or so years ago.Take care "V", and whether we agree or not or understand each other or not, keep up the good fight, and keep using your head... very few others in this country seem to be doing that.

First of all, I just want to let you know, that you seem like a fine fellow, and it was not my intention to be insulting to you at all, if I did so, I apologize.

I would just like to make a few points from your last long post response to me (I also read the smaller second post as well)

"I am not a great fan of Ed Schultz, but I love his diagram on how the rich have seen an increase in wealth while the middle class has stayed stagnant."

*I think Ed Schultz is basically a good guy, and I generally admire his spirit, but he is ultimately an entertainer, and he's approaching what is taking place with us as the old us/vs them Republican vs.Democrat point of view, (I would also take issue with his statement that the middle class is essentially been economically stagnant, I am of the opinion that the middle class-what little that remains of it-has actually economically lost ground)

The fact of the matter is that we have one political party divided into two factions, one ultimately is unabashedly greedy, fucked-up and repressive, the other does a few things that are actually good, but still behind the scenes, is always doing things to support their corporate masters, believe what you will, but I believe the evidence proves that I am correct.

"You go on and on about the danger of our country becoming reactionary and yet you totally ignore my points on Citizen's United. If you want to begin getting money out of politics, you and the rest of us have to demand an appeal of Citizen's United."

*Yes, you are quite right, I completely ignore the issue of citizens United, because ultimately citizens United is a symptom of the incredible level of corruption in our government, but it is not the CAUSE of our problems per se. My point with this dog and pony show, is that if it were not issues with citizens United, it would be with some other equally draconian set of laws, amendments, Supreme Court judges, you name it, because it is designed to be that way, if citizens United was gone tomorrow, there would be something at least equally as bad quickly put into its place to -yet again- do battle with, again, even the most recent history of say the last 35 years, supports what I am saying, it is what I call the hydra effect.

The hydra effect, pure and simple, is that you have many many well-intentioned people, groups, and organizations-usually liberal/progressive in nature-who work very hard to overcome problems such as citizens United. The problem is, all the terrible things that Come into existence- such as citizens United- represent nothing more than a multi-headed hydra, from a single ugly beast, if you remember from the really old Sinbad movie, when Sinbad was fighting such a creature, no sooner would he lop off one head then another would appear, this is the goal of those fierce (and I believe truly sociopathic) and relentless Republicans/conservatives/libertarians to take people's time and effort and energy constantly involved in lopping off the heads of the Hydra, which is a losing proposition. In the Sinbad movie, the old man crawling on the ground was explaining to him to kill the beast, go after the heart of the beast, and the rest will die, this is what the left should really be doing, and until that is done, we will just continue to slowly get inexorably transition into fascism, which is exactly what has been happening over the last 35 years, which would seem to indicate that what I am saying is correct.

"We should also support and participate in the Occupy Movement. These youngsters will help transform our social system into something better than what we have now."

*I absolutely agree, and I do support them.

"I see no practical solution from you, just whining."

*I don't remember you asking me directly what the solution was, in which case I would have an answer, I am not whining, I am making a realist observation.

"Right now, there is NO WAY that any third party candidate will win. Right now, we are stuck with the political system we have. And while I always hated voting for one rich asshole over another, at least on the Democratic side, they pay lip service to civil and worker rights."

*In all likelihood, I'd say that you're probably correct, there is no way a third-party candidate can "win" which is why we need to stop thinking in such terms, you must first eliminate the plutocracy before you can have any hope of true representation (once again, the plutocracy is the Hydra that I mentioned earlier) we cannot, and will not, have true representative democracy-which we have never actually had in this country-until the current plutocratic system is replaced by a Socialist democratic system, until such time, what we REALLY have is ultimately one big corrupt dog and pony show, that goes on and on and on.

As far as the Democrats are concerned, is that what you want? Those which pay lip service to civil or workers rights? well guess what, that's what we've had for the last 35 years, and you see where it has gotten us, but your solution is more of the same? think about this brother, I ask you to think about your thinking.

"I mean I loved Obama's speech, but when he started talking about getting rid of incompetent teachers and not incompetent parents, when he started talking about fracking, I thought for a moment we had a Republican up there making a speech."

*I totally understand, please bear in mind that I voted for him as well, but try to think of this in different terms for a moment, yes you're absolutely correct, he sure as hell talks and does things like a Republican doesn't he, but actually, he simply just being a plutocrat, try to stop thinking of this in terms of Democrat versus Republican, that's what they want you to do, he is simply a plutocrat following the objective and narrative of his boss, corporate interest, which is why I will not vote for him again, or any other plutocrat, I refuse to succumb to the illusion of democracy, I prefer the real thing instead.

"I believe we must inject some real social democracy into our system or else, as you say, become a corporate theocratic oligarchy. "

*it's not a thing of "becoming" we pretty much already are.

"As long as Citizens United is in force, we can forget about democracy or anything."

*Citizens United is not the true issue here, until America stops being a plutocracy, we can forget about any significant progress or change, simply because we do not live in a TRUE representative democracy, but one which focuses (extremely effectively I might add) on producing the illusion that you do, again, I am not in anyway trying to be insulting here, and I fully understand that you and many many other people have the best of intentions, but as you know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, And believing that a major and significant difference In improving the welfare of our society would be made by eliminating citizens United, is akin to Don Quixote and his relentless pursuit of attacking the windmill, and I think you know how that ends.

I'm very happy for you and your new home, I've really enjoyed this exchange, please feel free to respond to this, otherwise, take care.

V: I just got your response in my mail and want to take extra time reading it since you spent your valuable time writing it. I will then respond if need be... Just want you to know, I am not trying to pick a fight with you. I come specifically because you invite me to join the discussion and I do this sincerely out of support and respect for you!!! I can't promise however that we will always agree. Of course I try not to post anything stupid, but If I do, and If I agree, I will admit it. We concur on one point: The plutocrats are in charge. Now we have to plan a constructive way of changing this. I believe that one way is to support Occupy. Another way is to support a bill to REPEAL CITIZENS UNITED!!. Now I have to read what you wrote so that I can give you an intelligent response. In the meantime I have a question, and if you posted an answer already, I am sorry in advance for making you post it again, but who do you want in control after 2012 in the short term? PS Herbert Marcuse, man, I can't truly understand him if I read with my lips moving. So far, I think it is a V book for sure, but we shall see....and I don't mean this as an insult by any means!

Thanks, I look forward to what you have to say.

V I actually hate posting on this site because it is pain in the ass when you get to the end of a line, the f--ker goes back up at the top again. I just got to read your response. Right now I am busy moving and right right now I am listening to the music score to that excellent western Broken Trail... I have an answer for you, but instead of reeling one off, I want to think about what you wrote. By the way, just as I got to the beginning of this line, the f--ker jumps to the top again. Be right back I promise... I am 61. How young are you? Just wanted to know...PPS Don't worry about insulting me... I will try not to insult you either I shouldn't insult someone who has a brain and tries to use it for something other than a hat rack.

Ok, you can also PM me if you wish, and as for my age, I am soon to be 49.

Thanks scooter.

You make a really good point, with dealing with any sociopath, it's important to fully understand that in the truest sense of the word, since it is normally man's capacity for empathy which makes us human, sociopaths not possessing such a mechanism, are not actually truly human, therefore one must act accordingly.

I was so impressed by your posting the other day,-getting raped in college-if my memory serves was the title, it inspired me to tell you a little short story of my own, it is totally true.

Like many of us growing up, I had to deal with the school yard bully, actually a different one each year for a few years, this particular one was in junior high.

Of course he was bigger, and I was not the only one that he picked on, but in retrospect, he really was quite sadistic, and yes, since this guy lived in the neighborhood, everybody also knew that he tortured small animals, a budding sociopath if there ever was.

After having my ass kicked several times, I asked a friend who was bigger and older what I should do, he told me to do something to him that really hurts him every time I see him, regardless if he was fucking with me or not, I said yeah but he's going to totally kick my ass? my friend told me, yeah he's going to kick your ass, but every time he kicks your ass, he's going to have to pay for it, and if you start doing things completely unexpected to fuck with him, then he'll start to have to look over his shoulder, and eventually, the price he has to pay for getting his kicks by fucking with you, isn't worth the price he has to pay by you fucking with him, I took my friends advice.

The next time the asshole came to shake me down on the school lot, I immediately without hesitation, punched him in his fucking face as hard as I could, of course he kicked my ass. The very next morning, I caught ass hole coming out of the boys room, I took my lunch box-you know the tin ones that had the heavy thermos inside-and hit him square in the face as hard as I fucking could-I seriously believe it was my intention to kill him- I thoroughly got my ass kicked yet again.

Next time, I was coming out of the school library holding a very heavy massive book, he was walking ahead talking to one of his asshole buddies, I came up quickly behind him taking the book as far as I could over my head, and came down on him as hard as I could, I knocked his ass cold.

Long story short, a few days later, he came to me and offered a truce, I accepted and that was that, never had problems with that asshole again.

Not that this situation or this analogy, is something that you could, would, or should do, Just something about myself I wanted to share, it does of course have a point though.

This entire process of social and ideological capitulation started with Reagan, with unions making Greater and greater concessions, and the constant bullshit of "bipartisanism" (Which I always considered a code word for asskisserism) in my opinion, much of the terrible bullshit that's going on today, is a direct outcome of the constant laying down and constant, love, peace, lets all get along brother bullshit, just like the schoolyard bully, and in the words of the late great George Carlin-"these people don't care about you, THEY DON'T FUCKIN CARE ABOUT YOU!" any aggression must be met with at least equal aggression, an asshole who wants to abuse you, has to be put in place immediately, and definitively, I apologize if my tone is like I'm lecturing, I don't mean to, I just get quite emotional thinking about this shit.

My general belief- which is why I stated several times that I no longer consider myself to be a liberal- is that the liberals/progressives have had more than 30 fucking years, endlessly talking, with really truly intelligent ideas, yet the country continues to spiral down into fascism, my simple point is this, yes by all means let's give peace a chance, let's try to discuss in a meaningful and civil manner that which needs to be worked out, but also recognize there's a time when you simply have to kick someone in the balls, and that time is long long overdue. Take care.

Thank you. I have had similar experiences, and it is my opinion that bullies are not conversant in plain English and that they need to have their asses kicked.

good story,we will all need that kind of will,very soon.

Yep.