Atheist Temple: Nonbelievers To Get Place Of 'Worship' In UK

I totally agree with you!

THANKS I wished I would have thought of this one!

No doubt you're right. I don't know the developer and how inviting the place will be if built, but as I think Groucho Marx once said; "I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me."

No, positive claims require positive evidence and unfalsifiable claims can be disregarded entirely.

This is the basis of all rational belief, people always just make a special exception for god. The same reason you can safely say bigfoot doesn't exist or that we're not in the matrix is the same reason any and all gods can be discounted almost out of hand.

However, being stuck in the Matrix WOULD explain a lot about our current reality...... : )

My sentiments exactly.. Thanks

Damn, I like the way you write, and think.
This is one of the blessing of Current; to be able to read the some of the best lines of intelligent thought often unreachable in the usual hurley-burley of human conversation.

Sound to me like you need to go to atheist church! your atheism needs to be like my atheism.

I am so in tune to what you are saying. I also read Dawkins, because he is brilliant, but at the same time he is a zealot and that turns me off. I have to listen to his hateful drivel.

I have said many times on threads like this that aetheism is a religion.

Just so everyone knows that I am a heretic who is agnostic, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

Well said.

Mostly true of organized religions, but certainly not true of all "religion" as a category. There are some religions that greatly concern themselves with not harming a single other life or, in the least, harming as little life as is absolutely necessary to one's own healthy survival. This can take some rather strange extremes, true, but the sentiment is on the right track.

If anyone builds a "temple to the real", temple would be an apt name. Why shouldn't such a place acquire one of the many names we give to places where we celebrate the thing or things we most revere?

It would, of course, be one of the few places of worship with something real to worship.

That was my question, and who are they worshiping? I thought Atheists believe in nothing. This is Hilarious! Worshiping nothing and praying to nobody.

I admire atheists because they believe in doing good instead of just praying for some god to do it for us. My dad was an atheist because he couldn't stand the smug hypocrisy of Christians. I could never win an argument with him about that although I did turn him on to aboriginal spirituality before he died. He liked my argument that the reason it took colonists hundreds of years to realize that American Indians were religious is because they practice their faith daily in everything they do without the egotistic need to merely preach it.

Reason, our planet ship, Earth, human respect--you know those things lacking in all religions.

Thank you.

"What are they worshiping?"

Presumably something, perhaps for the first time, genuinely worth the effort. I'd call it "worshiping the real" which would necessarily mean worshiping oneself, wouldn't it? It would also mean worshiping many of those things, places, people many other religions insist we must respect but only because some "god" tells you to.

I prefer to worship the real because there's nothing else to worship and, well, after a bit more than fifty-one years, it rather works out in my favor most of the time.

An "atheist" hardly believes in "nothing". That's just a ridiculous notion. Those who say that presumably do so - and this from experience with several outspoken ones - because they cannot conceive of a life without belief in a "god". They regularly ask, without a "god", what else is there?

The best and only response you can give is - everything.

"I thought Atheists believe in nothing. This is Hilarious! Worshiping nothing and praying to nobody."

__________

Certainly, I define it differently than some, but it might amuse you to know, as an "atheist", I pray. No, I don't pray TO nothing, I pray FOR something, i.e., for a reason. There's always something to pray for and there have been many reasons over the years. I do not see prayer as a means to an end, it IS the end I seek. It is its own reason to do it. It's simply my way of stopping and saying, "Hey, I'm paying attention. I'm grateful for what I experienced, for what I'm experiencing and for what I'm going to experience." It's a conversation with the self - the most valuable, the most productive conversation I know of.

Perhaps if more of the so-called "religious" understood it that way, more of them would do it - not because their religion tells them to, but because it truly is necessary to a human life regardless of what you believe.

(Yes, in my considered opinion, everyone prays but, because many think some "god" must be involved, most don't realize they're doing it.)

That's a building by Norman Foster---laughingly called "Gherkin" by locals. It's a newish (not that new) London landmark and not the building referred to in this article.

That's a relief! I thought everyone had given up on the planet.....

I'm quite attached to the planet myself. My fondness meter for my fellow simians drops to new lows all the time however....

Lol!

I, at first had the same impression of the picture. Guess the highrise cranes are the site.

I can prove there is no "GOD"---------------and it's amazingly simple--------there are Republicans!

Maybe God has a terrible sense of humor.

That position that God can neither be proved or disproved is called strong agnosticism. It opposes the position that God does not exist, and that God does exist at the same time.

When I was 12 years old mosquitoes were proof enough to me that the benevolent "God" being touted by the Catholic school I was in was almost certainly fiction.

How do you think man selectively bred all domestic dogs from grey wolves if the evolutionary process isn't true. That's everything from the Great Dane, to the Chihuahua. Where is the wild dairy cow indigenous to. Oh yeah, more selective breeding based on the evolutionary process.

The fact that man can write the words create and creator does not make the idea of a creator so. The fact that man can use the evolutionary process to selectively breed animals makes the evolutionary process so. What process do you think selective breeding works on, prayer? It wouldn't surprise me if you had proof of evolution sitting in your lap right now. If you do,don't throw it across the room, it's not the little grey wolves fault. Tell me anonmaly (were you trying to spell anomaly) what is a vestigial limb?

Yeah the Nazis (National Socialist Workers Party) ideas were based on Socialism and Eugenics. A form of genetic selective breeding and exterminating to 'speed up Evolution' to 'create a Master race'.......REALLY DISGUSTING. They viewed Hitler as their Messiah which superceded all religious authority.
(Response to below): You should read up on what Hitler really thought about Christianity or the "Caucasian Religion". He was rather turned off on how weakly or loving the Caucasian God is portrayed. He did have Bibles burned and churches bombed that didn't support him. Hitler was rather obsessed with the Occult. Him beinging an Athiest.....He obviously didn't care if there was a God. He probably thought himself to be a God. I personally believe he was possessed by demons.....

In every single one of his speeches he praised Christianity. Get over it. He was a Christian. I know this because I read his speeches. All of them. When he wasn't praising Christianity he was denouncing atheists. If you want me to I can spend the next three hours transcribing them for you.

I had to stop and jump off your logic train--WOOO, WOOO!

Can't think of one damn instance of an Atheist group starting one war on this planet---end of derailment!

Herr Hitler was devoutly religious! All monsters are!

Could you possibly provide proof as jimstoner has? Perhaps some documents?

"I'm not saying Atheists are inherently evil,..."

But just by writing those words SUGGESTS that you may be thinking that. Or at least that we're evil, just not "inherently" so. Sigh.

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"Also evolution and atheism, gives someone a hell of allot of room to justify all manner of shit, from animal cruelty, to cruelty towards humans, to all out elitism, survival of the fitest..."

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Oh, man! Did you really, REALLY write that?!?!?!?!

I'm so personally insulted, Anomaly.

I of course accept evolution, and I am most definitely an atheist (have been most of my life). Surely you know that about me by now, yes?

But dammit, Anomaly, how DARE you write that I might participate in ANIMAL CRUELTY?!
But dammit, Anomaly, how DARE you write that I might participate in CRUELTY TOWARDS HUMANS?!

Haven't you even looked at the name I chose to submit articles here on Current?!
Haven't you even taken the time to read a little bit about me, at least in my profile?!

I'm totally shocked by what you've suggested of me, Anomaly... totally, totally shocked. And I'm so immensely disappointed in you... you've no idea.

How dare you attack me? How dare you attack others? How dare you make such broad (and LUDICROUS) statements about people? Why so much blind hatred?

I've just GOT to shut down this computer and try to get some sleep... but you sure as hell haven't made me a very happy person, Anomaly.

I think you owe a whole bunch of us (and certainly me) a public apology.

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Great work. Chillingly effective images.
Hitler, a solid Bavarian in solidly catholic Bavaria loved the pageantry of the Catholic Church. He copied it for his grand public spectacles to great effect.
The Church for the most part supported the Nazis for their ultra-conservative stabilizing effect. Also, they fond common agendas in the fact that neither group was particularly fond of Communists, Jews, or homosexuals.
There were a few outstanding Catholics who bravely opposed Hitler but they were as rare as a fully morally committed evangelical today.

Have you heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer!
BTW: I have had family whom fled Hitler because of religious/ political persecution and they were Lutherans.

In the book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

A reader asks,"Where did the quotes from Hitler's Secret Conversations come from? How do we know that they are accurate?"

Hitler's Secret Conversations is a translation of a document called the "Bormann-Vermerke" or Borrman endorsements. They are a collection of hand written notes made by Martin Bormann who was Hitler's personal secretary during the war. Bormann is known to have been an extraordinarily powerful figure in Nazi Germany and a notorious opponent of Christianity.

There is no real dispute regarding the authenticity of these notes. They are what Borrman wrote. They are published in the original German in Adolf Hitler, Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1944. published by Orbis Verlag, Hamburg, Approved Special Edition in 2000.

The quotes are disputed by some because Hitler is often quoted as publically professing to be a Christian. The simplest reconciliation of this seeming contradiction is that Hitler lied to gain the support of the German people, 90% of whom where professing Christians.

What follows is an excerpt from "Inside the Third Reich" by Hitler's chief architect and minister of Armaments, Albert Speer. It illuminates how Hitler "adapted his remarks to his surroundings", thus making himself a friend of the church when it was convenient. It is also another independent witness to Hitler's true feeling regarding Christianity -- it was meek and flabby, Germany would have been better off if Islam had conquered Europe after the battle of Tours, and that Germany had the misfortune of having the wrong religion.

From Inside the Third Reich, Memiors by Albert Speer, Translated from the German by Richard and Clara Winston, Avon Publishers, 1970:

What remains in my memory of social life at Obersalzberg is a curious vacuity. Fortunately, during my first years of imprisonment, while my recollections were still fresh, I noted down a few scraps of conversations which I can now regard as reasonably authentic....

Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone -- one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to his surroundings.

"The church is certainly necessary for the people. It is a strong and conservative element," he might say at one time or another in this private circle. However, he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him. "If only Reibi [this was his nickname for Reich Bishop Ludwig Müller] had some kind of stature. But why do they appoint a nobody of an army chaplain? I'd be glad to give him my full support. Think of all he could do with that. Through me the Evangelical [Protestant] Church could become the established church, as in England."

So Jim, or should I say Mr. Stoner...We clearly see Hitler was not a Christian. He just Lead astray 'the sheep' to Slaughter. I

True.
But usually they just kill their own. Lenin, Stalin, Mao etc etc

In Hitlers Mein Kampf, "Bormann-Vermerke" ie Monologe im Fuhrerhauptquartier.
Some fucked up shit He wrote.

"The Fuhrer is deeply religious, though completely anti-christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so."-Goebbels

I hope you realize Hate has no boundry, not limited to idealogical views, of faiths, or nations. It is in envy, spite, resentment and even contention. Some of my best friends are Atheists. I love how free thinking, intellectual, and fun they are.

Here we go. "The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people not just talk superficially of Gods will, and actually fulfill Gods will, and not let Gods word be desecrated". - Mein Kampf. (pg 562) Long before he new he was going to need the people for anything. The Secret Conversations of Hitler, Hitler- Memoirs of a Confidant and Private Conversations are all books that Christian apologists quote when refuting Hitlers Christianity. These books all come from the stenographer recorded conversations of Hitler. The English translations, from French translations of German, have Hitler saying things against Christianity. The problem is the original German text of these conversations have no disparaging remarks against Christianity. The remarks were made up by a man named Francois Genoud, who first translated the French version. Undoubtedly a Christian. The stenographers were two men named Heim and Picker. Nowhere in the original text does Hitler denounce Jesus or Christianity. But doesn't your argument seem to say that if Hitler was indeed an atheist (and he certainly was not) he knew full well he could not commit his atrocities without the support of Christians. And religious persecution does not make one an atheist. In fact historically it makes one a Catholic. Or are you not familiar with historical events like the destruction of the Cathars? What do you think the role of the Knights Templar was?

The earth.

Actually the ancient Greeks had a temple/ alter reserved for the Unknown/ mystery God (Mars Hill)! Pretty cool that a part of it still stands today.

That old polluted thing? I guess I'll just howl at the moon.

ENTITY SHMENTITY!!!

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Silly.*

*As in senseless?

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Damm! Fell off my chair!

No kidding. It's funny and spot on.

Maybe the Pope of Nope!

Howling! I needed that laugh!

I chuckled when it occurred to me.

Yes!

Well, that's the point of the Out Campaign, and the amazing billboards and bus ads, isn't it? There are many efforts to achieve the same goal that don't require us to co-opt religious language and muddy the line we try to make clear between non-belief and religion.

But there is nothing to worship. It would imply that atheists worship their point of view, and that's called narcissism.

People can worship anything they want. Who are you to decide they have nothing to worship?

I worship the wonders of the Universe and I am thankful for the love of my friends.

If that is your choice you have that right. There are others in this world that might want more. Who are you or I to say they cannot have that?

I though narcissist worship themselves ... and exclude others from importance . Everyone has their own perspective , do they not ?